When MR matters...

[(XBOX)DELASOUL76]

Sup Tenno-geeks! 😜 Just wanted to sound off my opinion about MR and how it can affect not only you but the squad, and what MR is appropriate for certain areas.

Firstly, I want to say this isn't a neg bash sesh. This is just my own thoughts based on my experience in this game as well as others.

SO...Today my brother in law and I did a few mid to high end game stuff like a Sortie for example. The first squad had a MR 6 taging along who has the Excal Umbra. He did 6% of damage. The other guy was higher MR but didn't do much better. We basically carried them through it. The second sortie mission part was a different MR 6 and same thing. My brother in law and I did the 3rd by ourselves, MR 13 and 16 respectively but we have pretty good gear and we know what we are doing. We saw a lot of low MR ranks lately doing sorties and the like.

I am all for quests. I love questing. I love achievements. I love challenging myself to solo them. But I also know I can't do them if I am too low of level and gear especially when in a group of strangers. I get affinity sharing. I do it all the time. But again I hold my own regardless of what I am in or I try not to be a leecher.

I have seen people say after a certain point MR is moot when it comes to gear. I can see that. But MR isn't just a requirement for gear or quests. It's a sign of experience as a player over all. Experience as in knowledge of all the game...gear, tilesets, loot drops, etc. And personally I feel that is the most important thing about being a gamer.

I have been in groups with varying MR. Hostile Mergers showed me that even MR 14 to 20 still has room to learn. And to be honest, if it wasn't for my network settings I would have got my 4k twice. You know how?!? MR 20+ players who had their head full of knowledge. I held my own. My brother in law did too. We may be mid MR but we hold our own because we research and test. And to be honest, things like sorties and high end operations or the more complicated aspects should require you to be a certain MR.

Why? For one, a MR 6 (unless on purpose) hasn't in my opinion learned enough about the game mechanics as a MR 14 or even a MR 29 has. Two, it's not grinding. It's learning gear. It's learning how gear affects the mission and the other players in the squad. MR reflects that learning. Third...well let's just say people tend to see MR like warframes and bolt...case in point limbo. Happened to me.

In my experience, rushing gets you no where fast except dead or in the wrong relationship. Personally I feel The War Within should require MR 10 and The Sacrifice about the same. Mid tier gear is about MR 8 to 10 in my opinion. I have only played this game less than a year and just MR 16. I took my time. Still have nodes. Just killed the Golem first the first time. Have only done maybe 4 sorties. I would never have tried a sortie at MR 6.

As for gear? I use a well laid out Arca Plasmor. I have 2 primed mods. I can proc 20k to 30k second tier damage. Frost Prime is my primary. My brother in law says my Icy Avalanche is over powered and laughs. I just learned the best time to use it. I did my homework on the gear. In fact, my brother in law and I can do a lot just us two. But even we know at our MR we ain't gods. We have seen mid to high MR 20s do crazy damage. But like I've said, we hold our own and people notice. That's why those same MR 20+ will stick around with us longer doing survivals or defense missions. 

Anyway, that's my opinion. MR is important. Low MR players should take their time and not rush. It's not a race. It's a journey. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind carrying the weight but I know when I have a leecher. Don't be a leecher. Be a team contributor.

DE's, you might want to change quests to have a more reflective MR requirement. Warframe has the most laxed requirements of any game I've ever played. And to be honest, it shouldn't be this laxed. The main story shouldn't be finished by MR 6. 

 

[GnarlsDarkley]

I can use my MR5 account and crush you with the useless stat saying Damage done.

There are also more than enough MR25+ who leech on purpose or don't know the game. I know the second part for sure since there are people I met who can't (not won't) do Eidolons with 3k hours and MR26.

And there are also official partner with MR27 who say Redirection is the most valued Mod on any frame since Shields recharge....sooo no...MR does by far not matter.

Excal (Umbra), Hek, Guandao/Atterax (even without Maiming) can carry anyone through 95% of the content if modded correctly

[sharkstrangler]

9 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

And there are also official partner with MR27 who say Redirection is the most valued Mod on any frame since Shields recharge....sooo no...MR does by far not matter.

This seems like something Ashisogi would say... who are you referring to?

[(XBOX)DELASOUL76]

46 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I can use my MR5 account and crush you with the useless stat saying Damage done.

Like I said, unless on purpose. I only said what I use to point out that part of the game is knowing your gear. Not to boast of it's damage. I'm pretty sure there are people who can crush me. 

 

49 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

There are also more than enough MR25+ who leech on purpose or don't know the game. I know the second part for sure since there are people I met who can't (not won't) do Eidolons with 3k hours and MR26.

I totally agree. I've seen those also. Doesn't make sense. I'll be the first to admit at MR16 that I don't k nk ow it all. Heck, my parkour is not hard core. LOL

[Xzorn]

One could argue there's a higher probability that near max MR players might have a basic understanding but far as deep learning and intricate mechanics all bets are off. This game is not simple as it lets on. It can get very complex. Thing is, the game no longer needs it's players to understand these interactions.

If you talk to theory crafters or endurance runners you'll get the difference I'm talking about and there are countless undocumented interactions.

As a basic example. This is how I do a Damage calc between builds: (Also why I pretty much never answer "Which Riven is better questions")

Spoiler

Tigris Prime (Sweeping Serration)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65) =  4134 Damage
Sweeping Serration
4134 * 0.8 = 3,307.2 * 1.2 = 3968.4 Slash
Elementals
4134 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 4,960.8 Rad / 4,960.8 Viral
Multishot
(4,134 + 4,960.8 + 4,960.8 + 3,968.4) / 8 = 2,253 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2) = 17.6
2,253 * 17.6 = 39,652.8
Damage per Shot
39,652.8 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 43,618.08

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 17.6
Slash Weight (3968.4 + 3307.2) / (2480.4 + 3968.4 + 4134) = 0.6875 = 68.75%
Elemental Weight 2480.4 / 10,582.8 = 0.2344 = 23.44%
Elemental Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.2344 = 4.125
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.6875 = 12.1
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(4134 / 😎 * (1 + ( 1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 198.95
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
198.95 * 7 = 1,392.64
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,392.64 * 12.1 = 16,850.96

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
43,618.08 + 16,850.96 = 60,469.04

Tigris Prime (Vicious Spread)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank + Vicious
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65 + 0.9) =  5,538 Damage
Elementals
5,538 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 6,645.6 Rad / 6,645.6 Viral
Multishot
(5,538 + 6,645.6 + 6,645.6) / 8 = 2,353.65 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2) = 17.6
2,353.65 * 17.6 = 41,424.24
Damage per Shot
41,424.24 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 45,566.664

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 17.6
Elemental Weight 3322.8 / (3322.8 + 5538) = 0.375 = 37.5%
Slash Weight 4430.4 / 8860.8 = 0.5 = 50%
Avg Elemental Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.375 = 6.6
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.5 = 8.8
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(5538 / 😎 * (1+ (1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 266.5163
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
266.51625 * 7 = 1,865.614
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,865.614 * 8.8 = 16,417.4

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
(45,566.664 + 16.417.4) = 61,984.065

Tigris Prime (Armaments)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65) = 4134 Damage
Elementals
4134 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 4,960.8 Rad / 4,960.8 Viral
Multishot
(4,134 + 4,960.8 + 4,960.8) / 8 = 1,756.95 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2 + 0.6) = 22.4
1,756.95 * 22.4 = 39,355.68
Damage per Shot
39,355.68 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 43,291.248

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 22.4
Slash Weight (3,307.2) / (2480.4 + 4134) = 0.5 = 50%
Elemental Weight 2480.4 / 6,614.4 = 0.375 = 37.5%
Elemental Trigger per Shot
22.4 * 0.375 = 8.4
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
22.4 * 0.5 = 11.2
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(4134 / 😎 * (1 + ( 1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 198.95
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
198.95 * 7 = 1,392.64
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,392.64 * 11.2 = 15,597.568

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
43,291.248 + 15,597.568 = 58,888.816

I can pretty much guarantee that 90% or more of the player base doesn't do this. I need to though. I have to know the differences between Rad + Viral Sweeping, Corrosive + Blast Vicious Vs Armaments in order to push lvl 300+ enemies. I also have to know which frames would favor each build. I'm not trying to flex or anything here. I'm just pointing out the knowledge gap in this game in huge and MR can't possibly cover that range. It's also almost completely unnecessary for most players.

[Elyann]

1 hour ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

Sup Tenno-geeks! 😜 Just wanted to sound off my opinion about MR and how it can affect not only you but the squad, and what MR is appropriate for certain areas.

Firstly, I want to say this isn't a neg bash sesh. This is just my own thoughts based on my experience in this game as well as others.

SO...Today my brother in law and I did a few mid to high end game stuff like a Sortie for example. The first squad had a MR 6 taging along who has the Excal Umbra. He did 6% of damage. The other guy was higher MR but didn't do much better. We basically carried them through it. The second sortie mission part was a different MR 6 and same thing. My brother in law and I did the 3rd by ourselves, MR 13 and 16 respectively but we have pretty good gear and we know what we are doing. We saw a lot of low MR ranks lately doing sorties and the like.

I am all for quests. I love questing. I love achievements. I love challenging myself to solo them. But I also know I can't do them if I am too low of level and gear especially when in a group of strangers. I get affinity sharing. I do it all the time. But again I hold my own regardless of what I am in or I try not to be a leecher.

I have seen people say after a certain point MR is moot when it comes to gear. I can see that. But MR isn't just a requirement for gear or quests. It's a sign of experience as a player over all. Experience as in knowledge of all the game...gear, tilesets, loot drops, etc. And personally I feel that is the most important thing about being a gamer.

I have been in groups with varying MR. Hostile Mergers showed me that even MR 14 to 20 still has room to learn. And to be honest, if it wasn't for my network settings I would have got my 4k twice. You know how?!? MR 20+ players who had their head full of knowledge. I held my own. My brother in law did too. We may be mid MR but we hold our own because we research and test. And to be honest, things like sorties and high end operations or the more complicated aspects should require you to be a certain MR.

Why? For one, a MR 6 (unless on purpose) hasn't in my opinion learned enough about the game mechanics as a MR 14 or even a MR 29 has. Two, it's not grinding. It's learning gear. It's learning how gear affects the mission and the other players in the squad. MR reflects that learning. Third...well let's just say people tend to see MR like warframes and bolt...case in point limbo. Happened to me.

In my experience, rushing gets you no where fast except dead or in the wrong relationship. Personally I feel The War Within should require MR 10 and The Sacrifice about the same. Mid tier gear is about MR 8 to 10 in my opinion. I have only played this game less than a year and just MR 16. I took my time. Still have nodes. Just killed the Golem first the first time. Have only done maybe 4 sorties. I would never have tried a sortie at MR 6.

As for gear? I use a well laid out Arca Plasmor. I have 2 primed mods. I can proc 20k to 30k second tier damage. Frost Prime is my primary. My brother in law says my Icy Avalanche is over powered and laughs. I just learned the best time to use it. I did my homework on the gear. In fact, my brother in law and I can do a lot just us two. But even we know at our MR we ain't gods. We have seen mid to high MR 20s do crazy damage. But like I've said, we hold our own and people notice. That's why those same MR 20+ will stick around with us longer doing survivals or defense missions. 

Anyway, that's my opinion. MR is important. Low MR players should take their time and not rush. It's not a race. It's a journey. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind carrying the weight but I know when I have a leecher. Don't be a leecher. Be a team contributor.

DE's, you might want to change quests to have a more reflective MR requirement. Warframe has the most laxed requirements of any game I've ever played. And to be honest, it shouldn't be this laxed. The main story shouldn't be finished by MR 6. 

 

Mastery Rank doesn't mean anything when it comes to being able to play properly or not , it simply states how many weapons you've tried out , nothing else. 

A higher MR doesn't even give you access to directly better weapons , it simply expands your field of choice...but for instance...as long as you know how to mod your gear you could outdps anyone regardless of their rank.

Damage is also a rather useless stat if you ask me ( you don't need to be the best dps to complete an Interception mission , nor a Mobile Defense one , nor a Defense one , nor any other excluding maybe extermination but I could honestly argue about that too ) , the game is an objective based one ; your primary purpouse is to secure a mission's success and complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible ( ex. If I am doing a spy mission on Loki I won't go killing everything around the map, I will straight go for the 3 data vaults and extract their data ) .
You will probably have to grind a lot and as such you want to minimize your failure rates and your missions times.

As other people have stated , knowledge is your best weapon. 
There are MR 5s who already get how to play and MR 27s who still don't. 
Also consider that some people might be using unleveled gear in non endgame related missions so don't flex on your damage without taking that into account ( some level 30 saryn with fully leveled ignis wraith , catchmoon and atterax flexed on me the other day while I was running level 0 stuff on hydron just cause my MR was higher....like...seriously, dude ? )

Just use the wiki and slowly start learning about new things until you know what works the best and what not and in which situation.
Always bring frames and weapons that would perform good in that particular mission type and against that faction. 

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 2 heures, Xzorn a dit :

It's also almost completely unnecessary for most players.

That's the biggest point. I remember years ago before another lad stopped playing almost entirely we used to do probability spreads for guns and weighted DPS calcs. 

The problem is that it's currently totally unnecessary. I can bring a full elemental gun to elemental enhance grineer sorties, forego armour strip and still win by bashing my forehead on the keyboard. Engaging. 

 

People nowadays don't even understand simple concepts like additive dilution and proc weighting. Let alone loadout building. It's ridiculous. 

[(PSN)Demiigod66]

1 hour ago, Elyann said:

Damage is also a rather useless stat if you ask me ( you don't need to be the best dps to complete an Interception mission , nor a Mobile Defense one , nor a Defense one , nor any other excluding maybe extermination but I could honestly argue about that too ) , the game is an objective based one ; your primary purpouse is to secure a mission's success and complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible ( ex. If I am doing a spy mission on Loki I won't go killing everything around the map, I will straight go for the 3 data vaults and extract their data ) .
You will probably have to grind a lot and as such you want to minimize your failure rates and your missions times.

Exactly ^ - just about 'every' mission in the game can be completed without having to kill anything(maybe 1 or 2 guys here an there) - take today's sortie for example as the OP is on that topic, a Hive, Sabotage and Spy- absolutely no killing needed, so to say that you carried the team in today's sortie means nothing. because there was no reason to kill things. the end mission stats really mean nil these days.    

[Xzorn]

25 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

That's the biggest point. I remember years ago before another lad stopped playing almost entirely we used to do probability spreads for guns and weighted DPS calcs. 

The problem is that it's currently totally unnecessary. I can bring a full elemental gun to elemental enhance grineer sorties, forego armour strip and still win by bashing my forehead on the keyboard. Engaging.

People nowadays don't even understand simple concepts like additive dilution and proc weighting. Let alone loadout building. It's ridiculous. 

 

Yea, I recall getting into some interesting conversations about builds in Players helping Players a while back before PoE.

While I don't think it should be required to know so much about the game. It was nice to at least have a reason to know. Now it feels more like a mockery thing. Watch me do Sorties Mission 3 with no mods on or like you mentioned just purposely doing it wrong and having it work out fine. The bar is so low these days.

[Autongnosis]

Just for reference last survival enhanced shields i brought a corrosive modded wukong staff to see just how ludicrous it would get. 

Let's just say those corpus regret their life decisions. 

Back when shield enhance first released i distinctly remember people going out of their way to mod around it. I'm talking trin's 1-2 cannon levels of gearing up. Nowadays you can bruteforce it really easily... 

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

SO...Today my brother in law and I did a few mid to high end game stuff like a Sortie for example. The first squad had a MR 6 taging along who has the Excal Umbra. He did 6% of damage. The other guy was higher MR but didn't do much better. We basically carried them through it.

Right here? This is your problem.

It's not MR, it's your base of saying you carried because of the end-mission stats. It's your base of saying 'I carried these low MR players, why are they even here?'.

You said it yourself, you researched the gear, did your homework. That's one of the things that defines a good player. One of them.

The other is the knowledge and ability to back up the concept that it's not the gear, it's the player that makes the gear work. I count myself a good player not because of my MR, but because of my ability to take any frame, any weapon, any gear, and succeed in a mission. To bring a contribution to a team, or functionally solo content without saying that it's because of my stats.

The stats on the end screen are literally nothing, nada, squat. A player with one frame can top damage, but have contributed nothing of value to the team. For example, playing a bow-only Sortie, I top-damaged and top-killed with a pre-rework Zephyr, using a Jet Stream build and an Mk-1 Paris. From the damage and kills stats, I carried, but from any practical point of view I contributed barely anything at all to my team, and the actual star of the show was the Slow-Nova player that made the mission easy, and made it particularly easy for me to pick headshots and get them first because of my Jet Stream accelerating the projectiles.

Meanwhile, somebody could get virtually no kills, deal no damage, take the most damage, but guess what? They're a Trinity player and spent their time healling, tanking the damage while they revived players, and fuelling the damage dealers with energy.

The stats mean nothing.

Worse than that, the MR means nothing. Back when MR 22 was the cap, I was told point-blank by an MR 22 that the life support in Survival stacked beyond 100% and that activating a pod was absolutely fine above 70% because none of it was wasted. When I asked him to prove it and show that popping a pod at 85% made the value stay at 100% any longer, of course he couldn't, it still took exactly the same amount of time to tick down to 99% as it did to 98% and so on. In the same way, not much later, an MR 25 player was adamant (I was in voice chat, this was not a troll, he believed this and had been actively playing like this for years) that Sprinting used Life Support faster than walking.

I have seen MR 26 Inaros players get knocked down in missions only to be picked up by the MR 8 Excal that actually knows how to use Radial Blind properly. You'll say it too; an Inaros player that gets knocked down is either a bad player or bad at modding, but if they're at MR 26, by your logic, that should mean they know how to play and they shouldn't still be bad at modding or playing.

Meanwhile, that MR 8 was somebody that I'd actually taught how to play, a friend's son that was young and had only started the game a few months before. They had put time and effort into learning what worked and what didn't, and asked the right questions from people like me, who actually knew the answers. That is what marked them as a better player than the MR 26 that was so careless, or bad at modding, that they were repeatedly knocked down in mission while playing Inaros.

MR is not and never has been a judge of how much a player has learned. A player once streamed themselves reaching MR 18 in 19 days, with a few clan members helping them on the levelling runs. They knew nothing about Warframe, but their clan did and the challenge was met. It means nothing whatsoever about your skill or about how much you've learned in the game.

Did you encounter players that weren't very good? Sure, maybe, probably. But they weren't bad because they were low MR, and they weren't bad because of the stats on the end-mission screen. You weren't good players because of your MR and you weren't good players because of the stats either. You were better than they were, yes, because you had actually done your research, learned about the game and could apply that knowledge to the situation, and in this case they were likely bad because of the opposite, they hadn't done the research or couldn't apply that knowledge properly in game.

To me, though, you weren't even good players, because instead of trying to do anything about the players you thought were bad, instead of trying to help them be better, you came on the Forums and complained about them being bad and want to gate people like them out of content based on some arbitrary value you think holds meaning.

MR means nothing, end-mission stats mean nothing.

Being a good player is not having better numbers than somebody else.

Being a good player is ignoring those things and just playing the game to the best of your ability, and, if you can, helping other players to do the same without judging them for not being as capable as you.

[(XBOX)DELASOUL76]

All very good points. And for the most point I agree. I see the bigger picture.

But from my own experience I have seen players who look like they have no clue. I'm not trying to be mean. Maybe some of you are right and the game has been "watered down" to a point to let players be oblivious.

Personally, I have the mind of an engineer without all the education. But that doesn't stop me from wanting to know how it ticks to a point. Noone can know it all. But there has to be a basic of understanding. So I guess I prefer a challenging gaming experience that makes me think and adapt.

I can tell the difference between a player who doesn't get the objective and a player who is in unranked gear but has their heads in it.

Still love warframe. Even the community. Region chat is a good boredom killer. Good laughs. Hate Nox. Those things are mean. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

I have seen people say after a certain point MR is moot when it comes to gear. I can see that. But MR isn't just a requirement for gear or quests. It's a sign of experience as a player over all. Experience as in knowledge of all the game...gear, tilesets, loot drops, etc. And personally I feel that is the most important thing about being a gamer.

Sorry, Tenno but as most folks are pointing out, that's just not true. 

Look, Iver been playing for over a year now, and I have the same rank as you. Because at MR16 I don't really see much reason to keep doing the tests. (I don't really play enough to max out most of my daily caps.) Last time I checked I had enough points to be MR19, so which experience level am I at? 16 or 19?

@GnarlsDarkley raced through the Starchart at MR3 and got stuck at the Sedna junction. I'm never going to forget that because at several times his MR I was still puttering around wondering how much better I'd need to get to make it that far. Then he casually mentioned that he'd done most of it solo so he could get through it faster. I had to sit down for a bit. 😅

 MR is a really poor metric to use for anything in the game. 

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

If you are trying to figure why a lot of under geared people are trying high level content, it's probably because of nightwave. They have to complete the challenge to get the rep and if they are behind they need it to unlock the catch up mechanic.

Oh and...

MR is a poor metric to determine someone's skill... unless its MR 1, then everyone can assume they are new.

Edited July 2, 2019 by (XB1)Nightseid

[DatDarkOne]

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

One could argue there's a higher probability that near max MR players might have a basic understanding but far as deep learning and intricate mechanics all bets are off. This game is not simple as it lets on. It can get very complex. Thing is, the game no longer needs it's players to understand these interactions.

If you talk to theory crafters or endurance runners you'll get the difference I'm talking about and there are countless undocumented interactions.

As a basic example. This is how I do a Damage calc between builds: (Also why I pretty much never answer "Which Riven is better questions")

  Hide contents

Tigris Prime (Sweeping Serration)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65) =  4134 Damage
Sweeping Serration
4134 * 0.8 = 3,307.2 * 1.2 = 3968.4 Slash
Elementals
4134 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 4,960.8 Rad / 4,960.8 Viral
Multishot
(4,134 + 4,960.8 + 4,960.8 + 3,968.4) / 8 = 2,253 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2) = 17.6
2,253 * 17.6 = 39,652.8
Damage per Shot
39,652.8 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 43,618.08

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 17.6
Slash Weight (3968.4 + 3307.2) / (2480.4 + 3968.4 + 4134) = 0.6875 = 68.75%
Elemental Weight 2480.4 / 10,582.8 = 0.2344 = 23.44%
Elemental Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.2344 = 4.125
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.6875 = 12.1
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(4134 / 😎 * (1 + ( 1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 198.95
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
198.95 * 7 = 1,392.64
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,392.64 * 12.1 = 16,850.96

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
43,618.08 + 16,850.96 = 60,469.04

Tigris Prime (Vicious Spread)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank + Vicious
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65 + 0.9) =  5,538 Damage
Elementals
5,538 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 6,645.6 Rad / 6,645.6 Viral
Multishot
(5,538 + 6,645.6 + 6,645.6) / 8 = 2,353.65 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2) = 17.6
2,353.65 * 17.6 = 41,424.24
Damage per Shot
41,424.24 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 45,566.664

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 17.6
Elemental Weight 3322.8 / (3322.8 + 5538) = 0.375 = 37.5%
Slash Weight 4430.4 / 8860.8 = 0.5 = 50%
Avg Elemental Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.375 = 6.6
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
17.6 * 0.5 = 8.8
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(5538 / 😎 * (1+ (1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 266.5163
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
266.51625 * 7 = 1,865.614
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,865.614 * 8.8 = 16,417.4

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
(45,566.664 + 16.417.4) = 61,984.065

Tigris Prime (Armaments)
1560 Damage (80% Slash) Crit 10% x2, 8 Pellet Count, 30% Status
Primed Point Blank
1560 * ( 1 + 1.65) = 4134 Damage
Elementals
4134 * (0.6 + 0.6) = 4,960.8 Rad / 4,960.8 Viral
Multishot
(4,134 + 4,960.8 + 4,960.8) / 8 = 1,756.95 Damage per Pellet
8 * (1 + 1.2 + 0.6) = 22.4
1,756.95 * 22.4 = 39,355.68
Damage per Shot
39,355.68 * (1 + (1- 2) * 0.1) = 43,291.248

Status
Status Trigger per Shot = 22.4
Slash Weight (3,307.2) / (2480.4 + 4134) = 0.5 = 50%
Elemental Weight 2480.4 / 6,614.4 = 0.375 = 37.5%
Elemental Trigger per Shot
22.4 * 0.375 = 8.4
Avg Slash Trigger per Shot
22.4 * 0.5 = 11.2
Avg Bleed Damage per Tick
(4134 / 😎 * (1 + ( 1- 2) * 0.1) * 0.35 = 198.95
Avg Bleed Damage per Proc
198.95 * 7 = 1,392.64
Avg Bleed Damage per Shot
1,392.64 * 11.2 = 15,597.568

Estimated Total Damage per Shot
43,291.248 + 15,597.568 = 58,888.816

I can pretty much guarantee that 90% or more of the player base doesn't do this. I need to though. I have to know the differences between Rad + Viral Sweeping, Corrosive + Blast Vicious Vs Armaments in order to push lvl 300+ enemies. I also have to know which frames would favor each build. I'm not trying to flex or anything here. I'm just pointing out the knowledge gap in this game in huge and MR can't possibly cover that range. It's also almost completely unnecessary for most players.

I completely agree with all of this.  I had done the same when testing Viral/slash with Condition Overload Venka Prime vs Gas/slash/CO build on same weapon.  The results were very surprising even on heavily armored enemies.  

52 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Then he casually mentioned that he'd done most of it solo so he could get through it faster. I had to sit down for a bit. 😅

Hehe, Since I have solo'd all of the Starchart before SoR update and again after with a fresh account, I can say that it can be a somewhat smoother method.  

edit:  Correction, that is if you have common sense and the ability to think outside the box.  

Edited July 2, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[CephalonDizzy]

MR is like IQ. It is largely an unreliable indicator and people who unironically brag about it are losers.

Granted, the average MR 10 is going to outperform the average MR 2, but I don't think there is any practical difference between the average MR 25 and MR 20.

I just don't see how leveling up garbage tier weapons at Hydron will help me get better at parkour or figuring out how to optimize warframe abilities.

Also that quote about something something 1 type of kick 10000 times > 10000 types of kick 1 time. -Bruce Lee, probably.

Edited July 2, 2019 by CephalonDizzy

[KIREEK]

I, as a player with over 40k completed missions, i've seen pretty much everything.

There is no recomended MR to do missions, HOWEVER, the higher your MR and the more difficult the area, the HIGHER the demands, asking for a taxi for sorties in areas you don't have unlocked, asking for builds or riven stats when you are already aquiring rivens, leaving terminals undefended in mobile defense missions and so on.

I fairly tolerate these things in mercury or when i see that the player began playing warframe recently, but if you are a high MR and you leave a terminal undefended, you will be asked to leave after the mission is over, tutorials are over at a certain point.

MR raises the demands, as for results that largely depends on the player itself, if you understand this, you're half way into being half decent.

You saw it 1st hand, MR gave inconclusive results and that's because results do not depend on the MR.

Recently i saw someone on jupiter (mid range MR) and he noticed i was going to do a secret room, so he placed himself in position 2 while i did 1 and 3 (so that the sequence was 1,2,3)

How rare is that? a player was doing the rooms like myself, was able to understand what i was doing and even helped me, cutting down time (no it wasn't a fluke because the are he went requires parkour), do you know how many thousands of missions it takes to find something like that, there are MR25 players with 1000 missions, yet it takes me maybe 2 or 3 thousand missions to find someone remarkable.

Had to congratulate the guy at the end because he was on his way to be a great player.

Edited July 2, 2019 by KIREEK

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I completely agree with all of this.  I had done the same when testing Viral/slash with Condition Overload Venka Prime vs Gas/slash/CO build on same weapon.  The results were very surprising even on heavily armored enemies.  

Hehe, Since I have solo'd all of the Starchart before SoR update and again after with a fresh account, I can say that it can be a somewhat smoother method.  

edit:  Correction, that is if you have common sense and the ability to think outside the box.  

Not saying no, but at the time I was a relatively newer, casual player, and also trying to get a dojo/research built. Was pretty much still a n00b. But the time I took stood me in good stead, I figure, because it meant that I had time to learn stuff others seem to sometimes miss along the way. 

One way or the other, I got a bit of a push from that thread that he made.

Only found out who it was months later when he posted on a thread on speed running. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

High MR ranking as far as I can tell is only really useful for a couple of things..

Higher standing pool in syndicates to burn through for the daily cap...

Being able to just make a weapon whenever instead of being locked out of it...

Re-ranking a frame or weapon allows for more mods to placed at the start when they are rank 0... oh and trades per day...

 

 

other than that...It's no indicator of a good player or bad....just someone who knew about draco back in the day and how to level garbage weapons as fast as possible to rid themselves of such un-fun... 

[Zelmen]

10 hours ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

It's a sign of experience as a player over all. Experience as in knowledge of all the game...gear, tilesets, loot drops, etc.

Yea... no. It used to feel that way, could be because I was newer to the game then. MR just doesn't mean much and that is sad. I get what you are talking about and wish MR had a little more weight than just a raised cap on stats.

Sadly large amount of people stop around MR15 because they have passed all gates of gear and quests. Could be the hate for MR tests or just don't feel the urge to do another.

Next there is the paid route, with Plat you can basically pay your way to max rank. Which is increasingly evident in that people don't have the experience they should have at higher MR.

Finally there seems to be more of a presence that everyone wants to rush the game. The number of people that are missing key frames at later missions seems surprising that no one wants to farm some new frame. Instead they just want to complete the star chart and expect to be carried through sorties, ESO or Abri.

Others just don't care about MR or want to keep it low to kicks (I guess). I once saw a MR0 in Hydron (had to take a screenshot) and was like rank 3 with a bunch of syndicates (poor soul working with 1k a day). Also did decent damage compared to some other players. Was fun to talk with too and understood the game.

[GnarlsDarkley]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

@GnarlsDarkley raced through the Starchart at MR3 and got stuck at the Sedna junction. I'm never going to forget that because at several times his MR I was still puttering around wondering how much better I'd need to get to make it that far. Then he casually mentioned that he'd done most of it solo so he could get through it faster. I had to sit down for a bit. 😅

Every time you pull off this story I have to laugh 

I think it's fair to say the discussion took place in a "How to speedrun this game in under 30 hrs" Thread

4 hours ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

Noone can know it all. But there has to be a basic of understanding.

And here you are wrong again. I thought so, too, a very long time. I have witnessed many many people doing utter bs (not just in video games) in the last 15 years to come to the conclusion that most (not to say all) other people I meet need a steady reminder how to breathe.

(for reference: there was a class I took in university in which we had to handle HI viruses and some colleague managed to inject some samples into his skin while experimenting...)

I am not going to say I am the smartest person in the world though...heck sometimes I use a calculator for equations like 10 + 7 = 17, but people have to "prove" to me they know what they are doing/talking.

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

Hehe, Since I have solo'd all of the Starchart before SoR update and again after with a fresh account, I can say that it can be a somewhat smoother method.

Absolutely. I was dragged into this game by two rl friends which were kinda "experienced" (~200hrs) so they decided to unlock all the planets for me and took me into T4 Def and Survivals with crap builds on my Nekros (I was their loot tool by mindlessly spamming 3 lol). After they quit not so long after I had to learn the game myself without really knowing where to begin and start.

Like literally...I had no idea what would be the best pregression route. Some MR 2 noob with access to all planets but no mods or experience. It took me ages to find useful information myself (The clan they got me into wasn't helpful either...).

Maybe this is the reason why I like to create new accounts and replay the "story"

Edited July 2, 2019 by GnarlsDarkley

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

16 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Every time you pull off this story I have to laugh 

I think it's fair to say the discussion took place in a "How to speedrun this game in under 30 hrs" Thread

Well you can be sure that you made an impact. 😅👍

 

And yeah. I looked at it and was going to mention that original thread, but by the time I had found the name you used and went to post about it, I saw your posts and was like, "oh.... Ohhhhhhhh!" 

😁

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I can use my MR5 account and crush you with the useless stat saying Damage done.

There are also more than enough MR25+ who leech on purpose or don't know the game. I know the second part for sure since there are people I met who can't (not won't) do Eidolons with 3k hours and MR26.

And there are also official partner with MR27 who say Redirection is the most valued Mod on any frame since Shields recharge....sooo no...MR does by far not matter.

Excal (Umbra), Hek, Guandao/Atterax (even without Maiming) can carry anyone through 95% of the content if modded correctly

Except you’re using an alt account that doesn’t share the same stats of your main account. You’re basically lying to prove the point of “MR doesn’t matter”.

[GnarlsDarkley]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re basically lying to prove the point of “MR doesn’t matter”.

 

11 hours ago, (XB1)DELASOUL76 said:

The first squad had a MR 6 taging along who has the Excal Umbra. He did 6% of damage. [...] We basically carried "him" through it.

No one can say if MR6 was an alt or main, so my point is still valid. MR5 locks me out of many strong weapons OP has access to (Plasmor, Tigris, Ignis W, etc) Also it is my alt...in my case I am not bothering with getting all the primed/good mods again, just what the game casually throws at me

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Except you’re using an alt account that doesn’t share the same stats of your main account. You’re basically lying to prove the point of “MR doesn’t matter”.

This is because MR really doesn't matter.  My Alt Account showed me this very thing also after I created it. Experience trumps MR every time.  Me being MR 8 on my Alt account doesn't mean that I suddenly lost all knowledge about how the game mechanics work or how to use advanced maneuvering such as bulletjumping, wall running, etc.  

1 hour ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

 

No one can say if MR6 was an alt or main, so my point is still valid. MR5 locks me out of many strong weapons OP has access to (Plasmor, Tigris, Ignis W, etc) Also it is my alt...in my case I am not bothering with getting all the primed/good mods again, just what the game casually throws at me

 This is exactly what I do on my Alt Account also.  I don't even bother to rank it up in MR higher than it needs to be.  Currently it's sitting at MR 7.  😄