Please ditch the staggerlock with Primed Surefooted

[Oreades]

Primed surefooted still to this day has issues with staggerlocking. 

Yeah you don't technically fall down but you might as well because of the forced stagger animation. 

Initially I thought that it was at least OK for not getting knocked around like a pinball by Arson Eximus while in Razorwing right up until one of the Arson Eximus blasts knocked me right up into the ceiling with Primed Surefooted installed. 

It's expensive and it really doesn't do much if anything. I tried it in my Titania build with high hopes and worked it right back out again for Peculiar Bloom, cause if a mod is going to do nothing it might as well amuse me while it does nothing.

Please get rid of the stagger lock so it lives up to it's 100% claims by more than technicality. 

[taiiat]

tbh i have more of a complaint that Primed Sure Footed isn't actually 100% and the Mod is just rounding a value lower than that up to 100.

 

and in the meantime Handspring is the bypass Mod of choice as it always has been, yes.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I tested Primed Surefoooted and Motus set bonus on Titania. They both still do the same exact thing. But then I was able to put them both in one build. I can just fly through those fire waves.... sometimes. Not even half the times, just sometimes. Is there a difference between knockdown and knockback? Even self casting Spellbind doesn't make you immune to the fire waves.... sometimes.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

Is there a difference between knockdown and knockback?

Yes, actually. Knockdown is considered a Status that happens with an Animation, it can be blocked by being immune to Status (like Rhino's Iron Skin or Oberon's Hallowed Ground). 

Knockback, however, is just imparting momentum onto the player character model, it isn't positive or negative, and has no 'damage' associated with it, and is not considered a Status, so it can't be blocked by those same things. You can counter active momentum with counter-momentum though, such as rolling in the opposite direction, which is an animation that can't be interrupted (unlike a bullet jump) and gives you a guaranteed amount of momentum in the direction of travel. So the Fire Waves from eximus units cancel out that and you stay in place.

Titania, for example gains momentum in Razorwing. Once you build it up, in theory, then the knock-down prevention from the mods stops the animations, while the momentum cancels out the knock-back, allowing you to fly through the fire waves normally. If you haven't built it up, the mods prevent the animation, but the knock-back will still affect you. See?

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Yeah got it. Knockback it a physical contact while knockdown is damage base status. I'm just trying to find a way to give Iron Skin immunity to Titania. Seems it isn't likely. Spellbind just doesn't last long enough for me. My build only last 29 seconds.

[Oreades]

17 hours ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

I tested Primed Surefoooted and Motus set bonus on Titania. They both still do the same exact thing. But then I was able to put them both in one build. I can just fly through those fire waves.... sometimes. Not even half the times, just sometimes. Is there a difference between knockdown and knockback? Even self casting Spellbind doesn't make you immune to the fire waves.... sometimes.

that's what I don't get, why is it sometimes? 

The first time I equipped PSF, the first Arson Eximus I saw I was all like "This is it! This is the moment of truth" and it set off a fire wave and my Titania didn't budge and I was all "OMG HELL YEAH EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <3" but like every other Arson Eximus fire wave sent me up into the ceiling like a pinball and squeeling with joy turned into "why am I even using this again?" 

Same thing with Prophet Taker and Inaros. One run would be really decent like nothing could touch me and the next was just strait up stagger locked for like 2 minutes strait. Like "OK game I'm going to go make myself a sandwitch, just let me know when your done being a total @^%!@#% and we can get back to actually playing you".

It has to be hands down the most inconsistent 100% that I've ever seen. 

[Oreades]

10 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, actually. Knockdown is considered a Status that happens with an Animation, it can be blocked by being immune to Status (like Rhino's Iron Skin or Oberon's Hallowed Ground). 

Knockback, however, is just imparting momentum onto the player character model, it isn't positive or negative, and has no 'damage' associated with it, and is not considered a Status, so it can't be blocked by those same things. You can counter active momentum with counter-momentum though, such as rolling in the opposite direction, which is an animation that can't be interrupted (unlike a bullet jump) and gives you a guaranteed amount of momentum in the direction of travel. So the Fire Waves from eximus units cancel out that and you stay in place.

Titania, for example gains momentum in Razorwing. Once you build it up, in theory, then the knock-down prevention from the mods stops the animations, while the momentum cancels out the knock-back, allowing you to fly through the fire waves normally. If you haven't built it up, the mods prevent the animation, but the knock-back will still affect you. See?

If that is the case then it would seem thematic for them to lump in Knockback when they talk about knockdown. 

Tho perhaps the reason they don't is because Scorpions and Ancients pulling you towards them are considered by the game to be knockback for all intents and purposes. Which would have the unintended effect of preventing the AI from pulling you towards it as well. That said I'd think that it would be fairly easy to script the mod so it could determine the directional of the applied force and only act according to forces that would have pushed you in a direction other than forwards. 

However that wouldn't account for Scorpions or Ancients yoinking your from behind so it might be easier to give their pull it's own applied ID that differentiates it from standard knockback. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

Tho perhaps the reason they don't is because Scorpions and Ancients pulling you towards them are considered by the game to be knockback for all intents and purposes.

Unfortunately, that's entirely the wrong direction, and you may actually not believe the reason why they're not bundled in... it made me laugh a little when I found out.

If you put in a mod that negates the function of knock back, you remove the function of adding momentum from slides, bullet jumps, rolling and even things like Nezha's reduced friction. You would remove the ability to impart momentum from anything and all animations would only ever move and play out at their exact movement speed, no more aim-glide-to-slide to help you get over those pits.

The game engine can't separate positive momentum from negative momentum, it's all just a direction of travel, so you have momentum in a direction you want or momentum in a direction you don't want, they're not different functions ^^

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Hang on... arson eximus fire wave. Why is Titania being push up instead of the direction of the wave? I think the wave is sphereical while it has cylinder shape visuals.

[LuckyCharm]

Yeah its spherical like embers 3. 

As to the topic, i wholeheartedly agree with the removal of the stagger. Its something that ahould never have been added into that, and having to add an anti stagger mod too just feels bad, wearing two situational bandaid mods to stop knockdowns just isnt viable anywhere

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

wearing two situational bandaid mods to stop knockdowns just isnt viable anywhere

Counter idea; use Handspring. Knockdown happens and un-happens faster than the stagger animation in Primed Sure Footed takes to finish. You are literally down and back up again even before the blocking animation when you resist knockdown with melee can finish.