Sorry Isn't Enough! You Still Haven't Told The Truth De!

[LegacyOfLamb]

 "Open beta" is a crap excuse for something being totally FUBAR.

 

 It is okay for things to be buggy. It is okay for them to be a little broken.

 

 It is not okay for them to be completely backwards.

"Heres 50 plat, and a mutagen mass"

 

I acknowledge that this is a huge sugar coat and an attempt to please us for the time being, but regardless it shows that DE knows whats up, and will (most likely) fix most of whats "Backwards" in this game, I don't think biting DE's heads off is the way to go about letting them know there are problems, which they already know there are a lot of. 

[Blatantfool]

What exactly is datamining and how do they do it?

 

 In a very general sense, it is just gleaning information straight from the files the game is put together from. That is, at least, what I understand it to be.

 

 The guy doing it is using a backdoor method to see what the drop tables look like. This isn't the first time this particular gentlemen has done this particular sort of thing. Last time he was pretty accurate - so when he published these newer Void tables and showed things where real messed up people got real mad.

[SoulEchelon]

Yes my emotionless typing means I'm frothing at the lips behind my computer screen, truly I am a microcosm of rage

 

Yeah That's wrong of me I apologize.

 

It matters not how you "type", it's the message you're telling people. You seem to have totally ignored their apology as well as all the fixes they've made today, and are demanding to know the exact person that messed up.

 

And yet at the same time? You accuse them of creating "nameless scapegoats".

 

So you don't want them to make a scapegoat, and yet at the same time you want them to say who exactly made the problem...which would, in fact, make said person a scapegoat.

[TintedLenz]

They stated that they fixed it in a way that it should not happen again.

That's what DE said the last time this drop rate debacle happened. As far as I am concerned, this could easily be lip service to go along with the gifts they handed out today.

[Blatantfool]

"Heres 50 plat, and a mutagen mass"

 

I acknowledge that this is a huge sugar coat and an attempt to please us for the time being, but regardless it shows that DE knows whats up, and will (most likely) fix most of whats "Backwards" in this game, I don't think biting DE's heads off is the way to go about letting them know there are problems, which they already know there are a lot of. 

 

 I agree. I was simply expressing that fact that in situation like this most recent debacle "It's beta" really doesn't excuse what happened. At least - not enough to get anyone to be less bothered.

[Daxien]

"Heres 50 plat, and a mutagen mass"

 

I acknowledge that this is a huge sugar coat and an attempt to please us for the time being, but regardless it shows that DE knows whats up, and will (most likely) fix most of whats "Backwards" in this game, I don't think biting DE's heads off is the way to go about letting them know there are problems, which they already know there are a lot of. 

The problem is it's been the only way to get much done anymore, it took a few days long campaign across the forums to get this fixed

[LegacyOfLamb]

 I agree. I was simply expressing that fact that in situation like this most recent debacle "It's beta" really doesn't excuse what happened. At least - not enough to get anyone to be less bothered.

Very true, I probably shouldn't have brought that up.

[Daxien]

It matters not how you "type", it's the message you're telling people. You seem to have totally ignored their apology as well as all the fixes they've made today, and are demanding to know the exact person that messed up.

 

And yet at the same time? You accuse them of creating "nameless scapegoats".

 

So you don't want them to make a scapegoat, and yet at the same time you want them to say who exactly made the problem...which would, in fact, make said person a scapegoat.

read the rest of my post

[Blatantfool]

The drop rate of the Forma has always been low. If it turned to be lower now because of more items it will be adjust to be less lower but it will stay low.

If you dont like how low they are you can drop 5 bucks and get 3. Forma is one of the things the game uses to get money continuously since everyone needs Forma, they are not going to have Forma have a high drop because they would be screwing themselves over. 

 

The Forma drop rate will always be low.

 

 Few months ago it was at what? 3% right? So yeah. Pretty low.

 

 Keep in mind, however, that Pwnatron showed us that since U10 the drop rate for Forma was .68%

[CrunkTanium]

 "Open beta" is a crap excuse for something being totally FUBAR.

 

I don't always agree with you but at least you aren't a deer in the headlights. :)

[TintedLenz]

 Few months ago it was at what? 3% right? So yeah. Pretty low.

 

 Keep in mind, however, that Pwnatron showed us that since U10 the drop rate for Forma was .68%

Drop rates for Forma blueprints also dropped from 12% in T2/3 Raid and Ext to a maximum of 1% across the board when U10 hit.

Edited September 21, 2013 by TintedLenz

[SoulEchelon]

read the rest of my post

 

I read it. But you know what? I ignored it. I totally ignored your apology, and will continue to berate you over and over even though you wish to make amends.

 

But I won't, since my name isn't Daxien, and my point has just been proven. I'm done with ya.

[Blatantfool]

Drop rates for Forma blueprints also dropped from 12% in T2/3 Raid and Ext to a maximum of 1% across the board when U10 hit.

 

 Yeah. Freakin crazy how much damage this dilution thing caused and how fast.

[Daxien]

I read it. But you know what? I ignored it. I totally ignored your apology, and will continue to berate you over and over even though you wish to make amends.

 

But I won't, since my name isn't Daxien, and my point has just been proven. I'm done with ya.

Alright

[Mak_Gohae]

 Few months ago it was at what? 3% right? So yeah. Pretty low.

 

 Keep in mind, however, that Pwnatron showed us that since U10 the drop rate for Forma was .68%

 

Yeah it's lower but this has always happened. With new big content releases the drop rate changes and a week later it gets put back to previous level. This is probably DE's thing to trying to get some sales, i dunno, but it has always happened and It's a bit strange that this time around it became a big deal.

[SoulEchelon]

 Yeah. Freakin crazy how much damage this dilution thing caused and how fast.

 

I'm beginning to agree with the token system people are proposing. Even Vindictus - one of the most RNG = power based games out there - uses a token system. You get 1 "Seal" per raid you do, and can save them up to buy an extremely rare material from the Seal shop. I don't see why Warframe couldn't do the same. But it would have to be balanced to fit. Maybe multiple types of tokens - a "Lech Kril" token, "Vor" token, "Lephantis" token, "Void" tokens, etc.

[Blatantfool]

Yeah it's lower but this has always happened. With new big content releases the drop rate changes and a week later it gets put back to previous level. This is probably DE's thing to trying to get some sales, i dunno, but it has always happened and It's a bit strange that this time around it became a big deal.

I get what you where saying, but in this case the issue was a time bomb no matter how you paint it. The situation before anyone even had a clue was already pretty foul. Particularly if you consider the fact we were already coming off a stretch of increasingly expensive Clantech generally aggravating the hell out of people.

So when they find out that on TOP of the fact that this Clantech priicing the drop rate for Forma had been absolutely floored to below 1%?

Yeah. The response was no surprise.

I'm beginning to agree with the token system people are proposing. Even Vindictus - one of the most RNG = power based games out there - uses a token system. You get 1 "Seal" per raid you do, and can save them up to buy an extremely rare material from the Seal shop. I don't see why Warframe couldn't do the same. But it would have to be balanced to fit. Maybe multiple types of tokens - a "Lech Kril" token, "Vor" token, "Lephantis" token, "Void" tokens, etc.

I don't honestly know if I'd be on board with a token system. I'd probably go for something like an item transmute that has some stricter rules to how it works and is very light on RNG.

so you know, I could do something like pop two Rhino helm duplicates and two Rhino system duplicates into a Transmute and have it give me 1 Rhino Chassis in trade for those items and a decent sum of credits.

Or I could just pop in 4 Rhino System and I'd have a 50/50 split of either a Helmet or a Chassis. Stuff like that.

Same for Void stuff, although I'd make that stuff particularly expensive to do transmuting with.

It'd be like having a release valve. You wouldn't be able to use it to 'skip' the grinding, because that wouldn't be what it is for. It'd be for someone who has already been grinding a while - who has worked up plenty of credits and a pile of duplicate BPs they can't use - so that they can fish themselves out of a rut before the game expects them to do something like 50+ runs of the same mission and get nothing.

It is a rough idea, honestly. I still haven't fleshed out every detail of how I like to thing it'd work - but the most accurate thing to describe it would be to call it a 'Stress release valve'. Because people aren't angry just because they are grinding. They are typically angry because they been grinding for a crazy long time without making progress.

Although I'm just rambling.

[SoulEchelon]

I don't honestly know if I'd be on board with a token system. I'd probably go for something like an item transmute that has some stricter rules to how it works and is very light on RNG.

so you know, I could do something like pop two Rhino helm duplicates and two Rhino system duplicates into a Transmute and have it give me 1 Rhino Chassis in trade for those items and a decent sum of credits.

Or I could just pop in 4 Rhino System and I'd have a 50/50 split of either a Helmet or a Chassis. Stuff like that.

Same for Void stuff, although I'd make that stuff particularly expensive to do transmuting with.

It'd be like having a release valve. You wouldn't be able to use it to 'skip' the grinding, because that wouldn't be what it is for. It'd be for someone who has already been grinding a while - who has worked up plenty of credits and a pile of duplicate BPs they can't use - so that they can fish themselves out of a rut before the game expects them to do something like 50+ runs of the same mission and get nothing.

It is a rough idea, honestly. I still haven't fleshed out every detail of how I like to thing it'd work - but the most accurate thing to describe it would be to call it a 'Stress release valve'. Because people aren't angry just because they are grinding. They are typically angry because they been grinding for a crazy long time without making progress.

Although I'm just rambling.

 

I can see what you're getting at. Maybe some sort of trade-in function could help too. Perhaps those piles of BPs nobody want can be traded in for tokens depending on their rarity? It might end up becoming a complicated system, however.

 

I know some people are proposing we -buy- these tokens with plat, but I disagree with that entirely. The tokens aren't meant to be a shortcut - they're meant to reward perseverance. So instead of running a mission and just "hoping" you get what you're looking for, you're also being given a direct and immediate "point" towards what you truly want.

Edited September 21, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Spinner187]

I skimmed over most of these threads, but what I mostly saw was ""Wahhhh" entitlist rants.

I bet half the people that complained probably haven't spent a cent, and yet they think they deserve more than what DE has given.  And the rest have no legal leverage since, it was "donations". 

To spell it out, you can $#*(@ and moan, but under a court of law you have nothing.

Here is what I have notice, the more that DE tries to please, the more these entitlist expected.  In the long run, DE is screwing themselves over.

Most companies would never put themselves out there on the forums and admit their mistakes continuously.  The best PR is no PR in the business world(when they #*($%%@ up), and yet DE still feels the need to be close to their players.  I do admire it from a player's point of view, but when I see these responses,I see themselves just digging their own grave.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Spinner187

[Blatantfool]

I can see what you're getting at. Maybe some sort of trade-in function could help too. Perhaps those piles of BPs nobody want can be traded in for tokens depending on their rarity? It might end up becoming a complicated system, however.

 

I know some people are proposing we -buy- these tokens with plat, but I disagree with that entirely. The tokens aren't meant to be a shortcut - they're meant to reward perseverance. So instead of running a mission and just "hoping" you get what you're looking for, you're also being given a direct and immediate "point" towards what you truly want.

 

 Yeah, buying them defeats the point. Just because most of the game's grind relief happens behind the paywall doesn't mean it should neglect to have things in place to keep grind from boring people out of playing.

 

 Trading in the unwanted drops in a basic token system could work. You could just dump all the duplicate BPs of a frame you have into the Token system and it'd build up to letting you obtain a specific part of your choice. That is interesting food for thought.

[X3Evanescence]

....Isn't apologizing for the errors and fixing them "owning up" to what happened? God damn I'm sick of people like this. DE gives and gives and gives and still gets bricks of hate thrown at them. Ugh.

[SoulEchelon]

I skimmed over most of these threads, but what I mostly saw was ""Wahhhh" entitled rants.

I bet half the people that complained probably haven't spent a cent, and yet they think they deserve more than what DE has given.  And the rest have no legal leverage since, it was "donations". 

To spell it out, you can $#*(@ and moan, but under a court of law you have nothing.

Here is what I have notice, the more that DE tries to please, the more these entitlist expected.  In the long run, DE is screwing themselves over.

Most companies would never put themselves out there on the forums and admit their mistakes continuously.  The best PR is no PR is the business world(when they #*($%%@ up), and yet DE still feels the need to be close to their players.  I do admire it from a players point of view, but when I see these responses,I see themselves just digging their own grave.

 

I hate to agree with you, but I do. It's the classic JC Penny's Effect, and DE is right in the middle of it.

 

I absolutely love them for being open with us, but for every person that enjoys and appreciates the openness, there's at least 10 others that take advantage.

 

If you don't know what the JC Penny Effect is, watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-jc-pennys-effect you'll see some notable parallels between what JC Penny tried to do and what DE is doing.

 

 

 

 Yeah, buying them defeats the point. Just because most of the game's grind relief happens behind the paywall doesn't mean it should neglect to have things in place to keep grind from boring people out of playing.

 

 Trading in the unwanted drops in a basic token system could work. You could just dump all the duplicate BPs of a frame you have into the Token system and it'd build up to letting you obtain a specific part of your choice. That is interesting food for thought.

 

Yeah, I'd be all for a system like that. Anyway, real life's calling, so *poofs*

Edited September 21, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Mythblaze]

This whole drop table stuff has been a nightmare for a lot of us. How many keys were wasted after you assured us everything was ok to play and all drops had been fixed. I can't be sure but I'll bet it was in the tens of thousands.

 

The original tables being screwed up seems like a strech to begin with. Each table is complete different from the next. How did multiple entries get so far off of intended drop rate? When you removed stuff you had to redistribute % for items all over again. So you looked at forma being at 1% and others being at 0.6% and didn't think adding some of the available % back in to that? If this really was an accident that's fine and you had the opportunity to fix it. Everything would have been ok right here.

 

Instead you got on a live-stream and told everyone everything was fixed. This is where it couldn't have been "human error" anymore. You looked at the tables again and there is no way you looked at and left them like that by accident. You specifically mention upping forma % drop rates. What were they before 0.1% - 0.5%. Even after that people still complained nothing could be found and no one on your end was responding or doing anything about it.

 

Then the data miner drops the real tables and immediately you all were all over it and it was just a "mistake" again. You were "fixing it as fast as you could". What happened in all those other days of asking for them to be fixed and looked at.

 

You can't give us 50 plat and tell us sorry and then still not own up to what really happened. I don't have faith in you like some of these people anymore cause your still lying. I want you to own up to it or I won't trust you anymore. No more lying please. I can't trust your word on tables until its data mined. After any update I'll be waiting days before I waste rare consumable resources. 

I think I'll wait as well. Seems as if we can not trust them any longer. I personally think they want to milk us for money. Reduce drop rates on key materials & blueprints to make us invest more money in the game. How should I describe this? I'd say that this is a psychological coercion that sums up extortion. What do you think? Frustrated? Feel played like flute? I do. 

[Blatantfool]

I skimmed over most of these threads, but what I mostly saw was ""Wahhhh" entitled rants.

I bet half the people that complained probably haven't spent a cent, and yet they think they deserve more than what DE has given.  And the rest have no legal leverage since, it was "donations". 

To spell it out, you can $#*(@ and moan, but under a court of law you have nothing.

Here is what I have notice, the more that DE tries to please, the more these entitlist expected.  In the long run, DE is screwing themselves over.

Most companies would never put themselves out there on the forums and admit their mistakes continuously.  The best PR is no PR is the business world(when they #*($%%@ up), and yet DE still feels the need to be close to their players.  I do admire it from a players point of view, but when I see these responses,I see themselves just digging their own grave.

 

 

 Maybe you should take a chill pill and remind yourself that if the game isn't actually fun to play then it fails as a game. Try to familiarize yourself with the fact that people don't get into game development to get filthy rich, if money was the only goal then the people busting their &#! on this game would have any number of other jobs instead that pay more and don't end with everything they ever produce being critiqued down to the detail.

 

 If DE is worth even a pinch of salt you're damn right they'd apologize for an incident like this. And you know what? They did. Because they aren't braindead and respect that we keep their game afloat by playing as they keep it afloat by working hard.

 

 So don't paint it with this inane "YOU'RE LUCKY THEY DID." crap. You just make them look bad all for the sake of this bizarre pedestal you've put them on. We've got too many examples of Devs who can't be bothered to even communicate. Far too many.

[Spinner187]

 Maybe you should take a chill pill and remind yourself that if the game isn't actually fun to play then it fails as a game. Try to familiarize yourself with the fact that people don't get into game development to get filthy rich, if money was the only goal then the people busting their &#! on this game would have any number of other jobs instead that pay more and don't end with everything they ever produce being critiqued down to the detail.

 

 If DE is worth even a pinch of salt you're damn right they'd apologize for an incident like this. And you know what? They did. Because they aren't braindead and respect that we keep their game afloat by playing as they keep it afloat by working hard.

 

 So don't paint it with this inane "YOU'RE LUCKY THEY DID." crap. You just make them look bad all for the sake of this bizarre pedestal you've put them on. We've got too many examples of Devs who can't be bothered to even communicate. Far too many.

You are probably right, in certain aspects. But at the end of the day, DE "usually" resolves the issue.(eventually in a quick matter that I have notice).

But that isn't my point in my thread. DE is a company that requires money to keep it going(whether I believe keeping it in beta for a year is a good idea just to receive donations is irrelevant).

But the fact of the matter is, out of any gaming company out there, these guys are a way too open to public on their "f-ckups". I mean honestly, have you seen any others like this?  Hell no! And there is a good reason behind it.

Many companies, and not just gaming companies make mistakes, but be completely open about it and provide freebies because of it just brings down people perspective on their reliability. Add the entitlist generation in the mix, and they will have to f-ing give something every dam time there is a mistake!  Even though most of their players didn't pay a damn cent.

Honestly most of the complaints on here are pretty dam trivial if you ask me, I have seen worse plenty of times with different companies. 

 

Have you seen a child in the groceries store make a scene just because their mother didn't buy them candy, and eventually this said mother just cave it just to keep the peace?  Pretty much the same scenario, even if you want to admit it or not..