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IllogicalLogic420

Yeah, another " daggers need buff " thread

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Daggers are cool weapons, we can all agree on that, no?

The daggers in Warframe are cool by design and cool by animation, but they lack usefulness.

Single dagger? Really only useful if you have Covert Lethality and Ash's Teleport Augment. You could get away with just Covert Lethality, but it's still lacking something. Range.

The range on single or dual daggers is horrendously minuscule. So much so, that even a maxed Primed Reach can't save them. Daggers and Dual Daggers need a strong range buff, so targets can actually be hit in reasonable manner.

I'm a fan of Fang Prime (I know lmao, don't tell me....) and would love to be able to use these effectively (as effectively as they should be compared to other melee's)

Anyway, great game, keep up the good work!

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I completely disagree. Daggers are short range. In reality, and in game. For a reason. 

What they need is a reason to sacrifice your range. Covert lethality provides that in the context of finisher-heavy gameplay. 

What they need is a rebalance pass, to give daggers good single-target damage at the expense of range. So high dmg, high speed attacks on a single enemy in your face. Make it worth me giving up the sweeping, safer attacks of a polearm or staff. 

Just making them into swords that look like daggers is pointless.

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12 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

Just making them into swords that look like daggers is pointless.

That's exactly what DE said they're doing with daggers in Melee 3.0 though. 🤣 Keeping the look but increasing their hit range...

I do like your idea though. Making them just very high single target with only pinpoint accuracy potential actually sounds like a better use for them.

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Meanwhile Dual Daggers are crying in the corner because they can't even equip Covert.

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well, here's another 'wait for the melee rework and buff' reply 

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As @GinKenshin already stated, we’re gonna have to wait and see what melee 3.0 actually does to melee weapons first and then give said feedback.

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53 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Daggers are cool weapons, we can all agree on that, no?

The daggers in Warframe are cool by design and cool by animation, but they lack usefulness.

Single dagger? Really only useful if you have Covert Lethality and Ash's Teleport Augment. You could get away with just Covert Lethality, but it's still lacking something. Range.

The range on single or dual daggers is horrendously minuscule. So much so, that even a maxed Primed Reach can't save them. Daggers and Dual Daggers need a strong range buff, so targets can actually be hit in reasonable manner.

I'm a fan of Fang Prime (I know lmao, don't tell me....) and would love to be able to use these effectively (as effectively as they should be compared to other melee's)

Anyway, great game, keep up the good work!

Daggers are one of the strongest melee weapons and you want to buff them up? I strongly disagree, sorry.
Leave them as they are, they are amazing in right paws.

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I just built my first Zaw dagger - balla, ekwana Jai 2, plague akwin - and that thing is insane. But even without Zaws, the best thing daggers have going for them is the Pointed Wind stance. That stance is awesome. 

And don't forget that Covert Lethality also adds +100 base damage on top of lethal damage on finishers.

But as it pertains to range, I just always equip Primed Reach on all of the shorter range weapons. It makes them much more reasonable to use. I think it's important to remember to that putting Primed Reach on a polearm with a base 4m range makes it hit targets over 10m away. I find that complete overkill. So while I've read countless posts saying don't bother putting range mods on short ranged melee weapons, I find myself doing the exact opposite. 4m is plenty of range on a melee weapon so I rarely equip Primed Reach on the staves and polearms but would never take a dagger or sword with out it.

It makes a huge difference.

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Ever used the Rakta dank dagger?

Dual stat mods with Viral-Rad or Corrosive-Rad, kills pretty fast at sortie levels without even having to take benefit of Covert Lethality, ofc. it depends on the sortie type, harder to make it work in Elemental resist sorties.

Imo. their range is fine, things like claws, warfans and sparring weapons, scythes plus Prova needs a range (or stance)buff way more than daggers, they are just underwhelming.

Dual daggers, yeah they are horrible.

The core of the problem is having zero mobility stances for weapons with no range.

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Dual Daggers? Sure. They need a lot of help.

Single Daggers? If anything Covert Lethality should be nerfed then maybe.

Nothing should scale based on enemy scaling like that. Doing X = Enemy HP damage is simply bad game design.

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23 hours ago, Aldain said:

Meanwhile Dual Daggers are crying in the corner because they can't even equip Covert.

That's really my main issue with daggers, the dual daggers.

 

23 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

I completely disagree. Daggers are short range. In reality, and in game. For a reason. 

What they need is a reason to sacrifice your range. Covert lethality provides that in the context of finisher-heavy gameplay. 

What they need is a rebalance pass, to give daggers good single-target damage at the expense of range. So high dmg, high speed attacks on a single enemy in your face. Make it worth me giving up the sweeping, safer attacks of a polearm or staff. 

Just making them into swords that look like daggers is pointless.

I'd have agreed before you even said this. So, I agree. I still believe they need a range buff though. Not a lot, but a bit.

23 hours ago, Sanxxieh said:

Daggers are one of the strongest melee weapons and you want to buff them up? I strongly disagree, sorry.
Leave them as they are, they are amazing in right paws.

My main issue is with dual daggers, because they cant use Covert Lethality.

22 hours ago, z3us32610 said:

I just built my first Zaw dagger - balla, ekwana Jai 2, plague akwin - and that thing is insane. But even without Zaws, the best thing daggers have going for them is the Pointed Wind stance. That stance is awesome. 

And don't forget that Covert Lethality also adds +100 base damage on top of lethal damage on finishers.

But as it pertains to range, I just always equip Primed Reach on all of the shorter range weapons. It makes them much more reasonable to use. I think it's important to remember to that putting Primed Reach on a polearm with a base 4m range makes it hit targets over 10m away. I find that complete overkill. So while I've read countless posts saying don't bother putting range mods on short ranged melee weapons, I find myself doing the exact opposite. 4m is plenty of range on a melee weapon so I rarely equip Primed Reach on the staves and polearms but would never take a dagger or sword with out it.

It makes a huge difference.

Ah Balla, that was my first dagger too, similar to yours. Was very nice. I'm going to make another Zaw Dagger soon.

Yeah CL is insane.

Also, I always thought PR was useless. What's the point of buffing a range of 0.15m? I'll try it out on some more daggers then and see how it goes.

22 hours ago, kgabor said:

Ever used the Rakta dank dagger?

Dual stat mods with Viral-Rad or Corrosive-Rad, kills pretty fast at sortie levels without even having to take benefit of Covert Lethality, ofc. it depends on the sortie type, harder to make it work in Elemental resist sorties.

Imo. their range is fine, things like claws, warfans and sparring weapons, scythes plus Prova needs a range (or stance)buff way more than daggers, they are just underwhelming.

Dual daggers, yeah they are horrible.

The core of the problem is having zero mobility stances for weapons with no range.

No I haven't used it yet I'll try it soon (Soon TM)!

12 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Dual Daggers? Sure. They need a lot of help.

Single Daggers? If anything Covert Lethality should be nerfed then maybe.

Nothing should scale based on enemy scaling like that. Doing X = Enemy HP damage is simply bad game design.

Agreed.

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