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[DE]Connor

July 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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Either make kuva farming more accessible or remove rivens for good.I mean seriously weeks wasted into farming kuva to roll a riven for it just to be nerfed on some silly weapon popularity rating it just isn't fun anymore.

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14 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

I just find it odd you have 284 days of in game mission play time, are MR16 and only have Itzal and Odonata as the only used archwings. 

Players that seek something to make them better exist, we do not need 100% of all the things to be good, we hunt for very specific things, obviously the less things we have, the more experience we have with those things

Checking the profile is pointless, i can make claims because i have something to back them up, just trust me, don't try and pick things with a magnifying glass to make an argument.

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Just now, KIREEK said:

Players that seek something to make them better exist, we do not need 100% of all the things to be good, we hunt for very specific things, obviously the less things we have, the more experience we have with those things

Checking the profile is pointless, i can make claims because i have something to back them up, just trust me, don't try and pick things with a magnifying glass to make an argument.

Saying the nerfs are fine when you haven't even used the weapons? 😏

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18 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

I used Prisma Gorgon and Pyrana Prime vs the plauge star boss and both made short work of it. But Pyrana prime was far and a away better due to it's shotgun nature, fast firerate/passive and pretty good riven (CC and 100+% base damage). Carried it since because tombfinger/catchmoon had their time in the sun for me. 

That's the reason I'm not sure that Pyrana rivens will rebound (at least completely). Its prime variation is very powerful and effective against both large groups and single targets. So, it's bound to be popular. Nowhere as popular as Catchmoon, though (beingh both Prime gun and noticeably less effective at room-cleaning... I mean you have to aim at least a bit with it).

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Saying the nerfs are fine when you haven't even used the weapons? 😏

i use many of them, including catchmoon, one with the biggest change, i perform exactly the same, but that's me, an experienced player that can make the claim

Again  stop using the magnifying glass. Lost causes are not my concern.

Edited by KIREEK

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Like i said, quit.

Even if you somehow kill less 10 enemies over the course of 100 missions, i find the complain kinda worthless because the vast majority of players dont really kill enemies in missions and even if you do kill, 10 enemies won't do much of a difference.

You guys need to start improving your gameplay instead of relying on things like buffs or nerfs to determine the player quality, you are no longer on mercury, you are getting rivens so it is assumed you engage in sorties and have completed the start chart, so please, cry less, don't embarass yourselves over ridiculous changes.

I understand that some players sell rivens, but no one is telling you to change your prices, it's your responsibility to come up with one and if a change happens you can easily keep the price, DE is not to blame for lack of player responsibility, decisions or gameplay.

If i sucked as a player, my words would have litle meaning, what would i know of gameplay right? But that's not the case, i can argument pretty much anyrthing i want because i simply know better, you then either analyse my words or ignore them, i personally don't care about lost causes, it's your decision.

Its not always about "killing" stuff. This game have hundreds of ways to kill something. Someone earlier today said "why use rivens at all I can do everything with mesa and rubico". He and you are both missing something. 

Some weapons do need the specific boost from rivens to work, but thats not the end of the world. 

For some poeple, rivens are collectibles, a way to spend some time when there is nothing else to do, a way to find a sort of end game when the game fails to provide one for them. Me for example, I dont need a fraking riven to do frak. But I am done doing everything there are to do in this game. So I try to get some good rivens for my favorite weapons, build them better, min max things. And it hurts when I see them getting nerfed to the ground. 

But there are many people who just like a specific weapon and want to get the best stat possible for it, so they run after a good riven, either keeps rolling with very hard earned kuva or buy with platinum, either way, its expensive. They do this out of the love they have for their favorite weapon, it has nothing to do with killing stuff. 

I am not sure if I managed to explain it properly. Its just, rivens can be an emotional thing, not just a tool to buff your weapons. 

Edited by MR9BCI
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

i use many of them, including catchmoon, one with the biggest change, i perform exactly the same, but that's me, an experienced player that can make the claim

We all preform exactly the same, the rivens don't. Personally I'm fine with rivens changing even if it's based on pure weapon useage time across active player base. 

But there should be exceptions like sniper rifles, because I firmly believe that no one asides ones whom have lead paint chips in a bowl at their desk or coffee table are using them outside of the two open world maps. 

Edited by Fire2box

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, MR9BCI said:



I am not sure if I managed to explain it properly. Its just, rivens can be an emotional thing, not just a tool to buff your weapons. 

DE is not to blame for players decisions

Players decide to love rivens and specific high stats, knowing very well they will change for the better or worse, rivens weren't introduced yesterday.

I understand the concern but it's not a player specific riven that will change, it's all rivens for that weapon, so the stats remain the highest they can get, yes the stats will overall decrease and that sucks, but to the point of warranting a post on the forums? cmon

I'm all in for feedback like "maybe the change on a specific sniper needs to be rechecked", but things like "wtf DE, my rivens now suck" is just poor feedback

Edited by KIREEK
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

DE is not to blame for players decisions

Players decide to love rivens and specific high stats, knowing very well they will change for the better or worse, rivens weren't introduced yesterday.

I understand the concern but it's not a player specific riven that will change, it's all rivens for that weapon, so the stats remain the highest they can get, yes the stats will overall decrease and that sucks, but to the point of warranting a post on the forums? cmon

I'm all in for feedback like "maybe the change on a specific sniper needs to be rechecked", but things like "wtf DE, my rivens now suck" is just poor feedback

I fully understand you wouldn't know this, but once you have everything in the game like I varely nearly do, the only thing left to do is 1. wait for content drops by DE 2. farm plat 3.engage with rivens. 4. fashion frame/decorate. "Fashion frame is endgame" is a joke because it's true and a example of how Warframe becomes bad once you are left with nothing to do asides challenges you make for yourself. 

fashion framers aren't having their fashion screwed up

plat farmers aren't suffering unless they are sitting on sets when a prime is either made free or an unvaulting happens. 

But riven rollers? Yeah every two-three months now they are getting their you know what kicked in. How dare they use and roll whats popular. 

This is why I barely rarely roll anything let alone farm kuva. in general rolls are damn awful. But lots of people keep pulling that lever. 

 

 

Edited by Fire2box
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-07 at 2:46 AM, DogeManX said:

Normally in any other game I would mostly agree with this. But fyi, DE balances around popularity and usage not dps.

Technically these are one and the same since people tend to pick the best dps guns for the job. It's just not as obvious. Of course you can deal a lot of damage in a single shot with Tigris Prime, but most of the time you don't need even 1/10 of that damage, but you need to dish it out a lot faster and over the large area. That's why Ignis and Catchmoon plummeted into the ground and Tigris actually got slight buff. It's OP in terms of a single-target DPS, but terrible agains large groups, so it's useless kind of OP in current state of a game. Of courese there are oddballs like most of the sniper rifles since they got popular only due to being surprisingly effective against Eidolons. On the other hand you don't really have to use Lanka/Rubico there. Everyone just got used to them there. Nowadays you may use even archgun for this (Velocitus in particular).

Here it is in action:

Surprise! It's actually better than Lanka.

Same as you aren't really bound to Chroma now when self-igniting Mirage were discovered which opens possibilities for even more guns to be used (like Euphona Prime or Tombfinger).

Check this out for example:

And yes, you don't even need rivens for this to work! They do help, but when you break Eidolon parts in 1-2 shots without them and can start shooting even before shield drops to land hits immediately when it drops... you can totally ignore their existence.

Edited by lainverse

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3 hours ago, lainverse said:

I expected Catchmoon rivens plummet to the ground, so I didn't even bother looking for them. Well, I don't bother looking for specific rivens at all, but this one I'd sell on sight for exactly this reason. No reason to invest absurd amount of time into things which won't last and it were dead obvious that these won't last at all since this portable fek-all device is tremendously powerful without any rivens at all.

Regarding Gorgon... have you ever seen Prisma Gorgon? Besides, it's surprisingly good weapon to deal with Plague Star boss. No wonder it got popularity spike and rivens got nerfed a bit due to this. I expect it to return back in the next rivens updage or in the following after it.Technically Pyrana and Rattleguts may rebound a bit as well since they got popularity spike for the same reason. Not sure, though.

Straight to 0.5 and in some rare cases even a little bit below I guess. With how popular Ignis Wraith is I not surprised at all. Why anyone even bother acquiring a riven for it anyway?

I think they are not happy that people still one-shot Eidolons with these. Besides now we have Velocitus which does pretty much the same. Yes, the archgun.

It's 1.15 -> 1.1. Why it lost even that 0.05 is quite surprising, though. Sicarus Prime is nice, but not _that_ nice. Apparently it is, though.

Yeah Prisma Gorgon is one of the main primaries I use. But compared to other weapons - You never see anyone using it in day to day gameplay (In EU at least)

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Posted (edited)

What are rivens?? Rivens are mods you should not invest a even one single plat on. This is being said by a player who used to spend thousands upon thousands of plat on some, but more importantly hundreds of hours of time on maximizing riven stats. Why not spend 1 plat? Because riven "changes", moreso nerfs. These so called balance changes are really corrupting a system that was already corrupted of itself. Nerfing based on popularity will never end well and past riven changes proved just that. Cough, imagine nerfing a single viper lmfao, proves another point i have, which is consistency. These changed have none of that really, exceptions being with "op" weapons of course, but tell me, who the S#&$ even uses single vipers, let alone even having rivens for it. DE says they base changes off popularity, yet this counteracts that idea, they also said they base it on internal performance, power in other words. In what world would a single viper resemble power??? Boom, nerf handed to single viper, such a remarkable display of iq and logic.

the burnout was already sickening before the balancing, now, to have the thought that not only the rng system can #*!% you up, but nerfs in a couple months can also result in completely wasting your time is pathetic.... What makes matters crazier is that they are going against their true values, which is focusing on what the players want. I love this game with an absolute passion, but this is the one issue that Im afraid can lead to its downfall, or at least to the downfall of a portion of the community who are really devoted to the game, who have such the unbelievable grit to invest their hard efforts and time towards an uncontrollable rng system. This is not just hours upon hours players can potentially lose, but to some cases i've heard, real money.... plz DE

Edited by RaZdoT

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20 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Zero?

Nope, 0.5 is a limit. That's also the point where you should consider replacing riven with normal mods for a better damage unless you have a god-tier roll on it (in such case it performs about the same -_-).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

DE is not to blame for players decisions

Players decide to love rivens and specific high stats, knowing very well they will change for the better or worse, rivens weren't introduced yesterday.

I understand the concern but it's not a player specific riven that will change, it's all rivens for that weapon, so the stats remain the highest they can get, yes the stats will overall decrease and that sucks, but to the point of warranting a post on the forums? cmon

I'm all in for feedback like "maybe the change on a specific sniper needs to be rechecked", but things like "wtf DE, my rivens now suck" is just poor feedback

The problem is the way they change dispo based on popularity instead of balancing weapons base stats.

They keeps releasing new weapons with significant better base stats without revisiting old weapons, what do they expect? Kitguns can reach 100%+ crit chance without any riven, did they really thought other secondaries would be able to compete with that? They say that the riven dispo changes are to encourage players to use other less popular weapons .. well they are less popular for a reason! And giving 300% crit on riven on a base crit of 10% isnt going to make them popular. So why screw popular weapons anyway? Their entire weapon balancing system and strategy is very much flawed. 

And when I am spending my time and my money on something, their policy to mess with that is stupid. You can legalize it however you want. You can say its how it works, you can say I am stupid for investing in something unstable in the first place. But in the end, its our loss anyway.

Edited by MR9BCI
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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, MR9BCI said:

And when I am spending my time and my money on something, their policy to mess with that is stupid. You can legalize it however you want. You can say its how it works, you can say I am stupid for investing in something unstable in the first place. But in the end, its our loss anyway.

But honestly, they really don't worth any serious investments into them. We just used to a fact that disposition doesn't change and rivens for certain weapons end up ridiculously powerful. They never meant to be, but lack of any changes gave us sense of stability. Now, with stable updates to disposition they finally became what they meant to be from the beginning. Useless unstable trash only worth any time investment on a mediocre guns to bring them remotely on par with the best. And even then they tend to take slight hits to disposition. I mean, seriously, a single f-king Viper. On the other hand... who even cares about rivens for a single Viper? By the time you get to the rivens you won't be using any kind of Vipers anyway. Well, maybe Twin Vipers Wraith for the lulz (like spending ammo faster than Carrier can carry you), but you don't really need a riven for such purpose.

Edited by lainverse
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If anyone on PS4 wanna get rid of their rivens, you can dump them in my inventory. I could really use the ENDO you can get from rivens with dozens of rolls.

You know my PSN ID.

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Posted (edited)

So many people here are just missing the point completely. This is lazy balance design on DE's end, and a complete anti-consumer practice. DE knows players will keep buying/acquiring more plat to get better and better stats for their favorite weapons. They would/should be spending their time buffing less popular/weaker weapon rivens to give us more variety for late game content, not FORCING people into looking at what else they can use. They can't rework base stats too crazy because there has to be weapon progression in the game to give newer players a sense of power creep. Rivens are what allows those weaker weapons that people love a chance to become viable for late game content.

This is flat out scummy EA crap and I really hope player backlash kicks them in the butt for these nerfs over the last few months. Anyone who bought platinum to purchase Rivens that got nerfed just lost a crap ton of goodwill for your company. Anyone who invested time and effort to acquire platinum to get good rivens that were nerfed likely lost just as much goodwill also.

DE is like an abusive spouse, you love them and don't want to leave them.. but every once and a while they get drunk and beat you senseless for no damn reason. Anyone defending DE here is doing so out of fanboyism or personal bias against rivens because they cannot afford them or don't have the time to acquire them and roll them.

One day DE, you're going to lose faith from your players and we will be looking for other live service games to play that won't punish players for using weapons they love to use. Destiny 2 is coming to Steam pretty soon and if that game even gives me half of the enjoyment Warframe does I'll be taking yet another long vacation away from this game.

I will not idly stand by and support these types of changes to Warframe. It's hurting the playerbase and the game even more than ever.

Edited by Aliothale
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pretty happy my Hek riven got better, though. Surprised it saw so much usage drop this time around. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

[laughs in non-meta Rivens]

Largely anyone into rivens have non-meta rivens. of course gram riven isn't non-meta and DE refuses to touch it because of the fabled melee 3.0 which has been delayed for well over a year by now. So guess what melee I'm gonna use. 

Edited by Fire2box

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On 2019-07-06 at 7:32 PM, LSG501 said:

Why is the supra being nerfed, I hardly ever see that weapon...

I'll quote something I had to say about this the last time riven changes came along. Basically, I think DE's vision for rivens has changed from bringing unpopular (thus non-meta/automatically trash to the overall community) weapons to the table as viable. Viable =/= meta, meta viable.

Quote

I'm a little concerned about this. Are any weapons that the community deems unpopular also low on the internal rankings? This sounds like it could lean towards some niche weapons that are fun with a riven being completely gutted due to its internal ranking also being low.

An example from this round of changes looks like the Angstrum. I've never, EVER, seen anyone use this gun (EVER) (I have 1500 hours spread over the past 2 years). That's because of its pitiful damage (misleading arsenal stats that actually tell you the fully charged, impact + explosion damage only) and obvious risk of self-damage. Its disposition still fell. Unless these users are only on PC, this would mean it has a lower internal ranking that's still going to bring the gun down despite how fun a riven can make it (adding Mirage for comedic multishot).

 

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On 2019-07-05 at 11:55 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Our next wave of regular Riven disposition changes has arrived to all platforms, along with Wukong Prime access. A full breakdown of changes can be found below:

thank you - having nothing left to do in the game I was thinking about farming kuva/rolling rivens/farming arbitration for rivens but this reminded me all the work would likely be wasted.  Saved me a bunch of wasted time. 😂

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