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[DE]Connor

July 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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Not to be rude to the people who are claiming to have spent tons of plat on some of the rivens that had the disposition lowered but, this is why you should not be trying to sell or by stuff at those high of prices, for the most part I have a few on the list as well that were impacted but, I never paid a large sum of plat for them either, I just used trading and highest I ever spent was 200 plat for a riven which should probably be the highest they should go for because I was already taking this kind of stuff into account, I would not be surprised to see them hit the disposition on the same weapons with another change like this again next time they run a change in disposition, think long and hard about the price you pay, that god tier might not be that way for long.

On a side note I should probably start gathering the salt from this subject to make some prosciutto, cause I am seeing plenty of salt.

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Sigh, glaxion and akjagara taking a hit due to spike in overuse from weapon variants...

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Aliothale said:

So many people here are just missing the point completely. This is lazy balance design on DE's end, and a complete anti-consumer practice. DE knows players will keep buying/acquiring more plat to get better and better stats for their favorite weapons. They would/should be spending their time buffing less popular/weaker weapon rivens to give us more variety for late game content, not FORCING people into looking at what else they can use. They can't rework base stats too crazy because there has to be weapon progression in the game to give newer players a sense of power creep. Rivens are what allows those weaker weapons that people love a chance to become viable for late game content.

This is flat out scummy EA crap and I really hope player backlash kicks them in the butt for these nerfs over the last few months. Anyone who bought platinum to purchase Rivens that got nerfed just lost a crap ton of goodwill for your company. Anyone who invested time and effort to acquire platinum to get good rivens that were nerfed likely lost just as much goodwill also.

DE is like an abusive spouse, you love them and don't want to leave them.. but every once and a while they get drunk and beat you senseless for no damn reason. Anyone defending DE here is doing so out of fanboyism or personal bias against rivens because they cannot afford them or don't have the time to acquire them and roll them.

One day DE, you're going to lose faith from your players and we will be looking for other live service games to play that won't punish players for using weapons they love to use. Destiny 2 is coming to Steam pretty soon and if that game even gives me half of the enjoyment Warframe does I'll be taking yet another long vacation away from this game.

I will not idly stand by and support these types of changes to Warframe. It's hurting the playerbase and the game even more than ever.

Destruction : 100

 

edit

People complaining about others complaining about DE's utter dogcrap and lazy design/balance decisions require a couple of doses of IQ serum.

Edited by White_Matter
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On 2019-07-07 at 3:54 AM, D20 said:

You guys know very well that Riven disposition change every 3 month or so. If you spend tremendous amount of money to get one Riven that might get the nerfbat later on, you can only blame yourself. Next time you spend 1000 plats in that one "god tier" Riven, think twice, because you are very likely not doing a good investment.

 

How about those of us who farm Sortie day after day to get Veiled Rivens, then pray that those Rivens unveil to a decent weapon, and then farm Kuva Survival for hours per day to get enough Kuva to roll decent stats, like +Critical Chance, +Damage, +Multishot, or such? How about those of us who don't spend platinum on Rivens, but time? No one wants to use the Kraken, or Viper, or such, because those weapons are simply trash weapons when we have weapons that don't need Rivens and do better than those weapons with Rivens. I don't need my Opticor Riven for my Opticor Vandal to be superior to the Ignis Wraith WITH an Ignis Riven.

 

So instead of trying to act like we all buy our Rivens, why not look at it from the perspective of a player like me, who farms for these Rivens? Because honestly, the players who are hurt most by these nerfs are us. Instead of playing Smash Ultimate, Elder Scrolls Online, or even some Warhammer, I chose to sit in front of my computer, and farm Kuva for 3 hours a day at minimum in order to gather enough Kuva to roll a piece of digital code three or four times. When I go on the EU server, there's a friendly little reminder that pops up after an hour of play time asking us to take a break every now and then, yet this game requires you to grind and grind and grind, so you CAN'T take a break if you want to get anywhere.

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2 hours ago, Daskrieg said:

Not to be rude to the people who are claiming to have spent tons of plat on some of the rivens that had the disposition lowered but, this is why you should not be trying to sell or by stuff at those high of prices, for the most part I have a few on the list as well that were impacted but, I never paid a large sum of plat for them either, I just used trading and highest I ever spent was 200 plat for a riven which should probably be the highest they should go for because I was already taking this kind of stuff into account, I would not be surprised to see them hit the disposition on the same weapons with another change like this again next time they run a change in disposition, think long and hard about the price you pay, that god tier might not be that way for long.

On a side note I should probably start gathering the salt from this subject to make some prosciutto, cause I am seeing plenty of salt.

Indeed, also this is why we shouldn't farm and spend lot of kuvas to waste our time.

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Why not remove riven mods? Better then me having my riven mods nerfed so often and hard. I hate Rivennerfs, why not making bad rivens better instead of nerfing?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Aliothale said:

So many people here are just missing the point completely. This is lazy balance design on DE's end, and a complete anti-consumer practice. DE knows players will keep buying/acquiring more plat to get better and better stats for their favorite weapons. They would/should be spending their time buffing less popular/weaker weapon rivens to give us more variety for late game content, not FORCING people into looking at what else they can use. They can't rework base stats too crazy because there has to be weapon progression in the game to give newer players a sense of power creep. Rivens are what allows those weaker weapons that people love a chance to become viable for late game content.

This is flat out scummy EA crap and I really hope player backlash kicks them in the butt for these nerfs over the last few months. Anyone who bought platinum to purchase Rivens that got nerfed just lost a crap ton of goodwill for your company. Anyone who invested time and effort to acquire platinum to get good rivens that were nerfed likely lost just as much goodwill also.

DE is like an abusive spouse, you love them and don't want to leave them.. but every once and a while they get drunk and beat you senseless for no damn reason. Anyone defending DE here is doing so out of fanboyism or personal bias against rivens because they cannot afford them or don't have the time to acquire them and roll them.

One day DE, you're going to lose faith from your players and we will be looking for other live service games to play that won't punish players for using weapons they love to use. Destiny 2 is coming to Steam pretty soon and if that game even gives me half of the enjoyment Warframe does I'll be taking yet another long vacation away from this game.

I will not idly stand by and support these types of changes to Warframe. It's hurting the playerbase and the game even more than ever.

Agree with you completely my friend. I would argue these rivens are nearly as bad as loot boxes. People want to hit that power fantasy, so they will make rash decisions to do so, be that spending hours to grind, or buying from scam artists claiming "GOD TIER RIVEN FOR _______ GUN" that has -slash for tigris or something. Rivens are just lazy coding so that actual balance for old weapons won't happen.

If Kuva ever becomes a resource that is purchasable, I fear for the future of Warframe....

Anyways, PSO2 is coming in 2020 if you need something fresh 🙂 , Same with Borderlands 3, and if those don't float your boat, like you said, Destiny. I haven't played either 1 or 2 yet, but maybe I might take a look into it.

Edited by VolatileAcidity
Kuva Purchasable in the Future == basically lootboxes

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Posted (edited)

Popularity seems like a weird metric to balance rivens on.

If a weapon gets vaulted, it’s popularity might go down, unvaulted it might go up...

I’m conflicted, I don’t use anything because it’s Meta. I just use the weapons I like. My cernos got nerfed last disposition changes, and buffed this time. So that’s cool.

But my Tombfinger riven is looking pretty pathetic now.

Even with a poor riven on it the Tombfinger is still head and shoulders above most secondary weapons. Of course the Tombfinger is popular, you can customise it, put arcanes in it... They designed it to be popular...

I can’t help but feel like riven disposition changes are just a very lazy way to balance weapons. Not only is it less work for DE, but it’s us the players that foot the bill.

When a riven you’ve invested heaps into gets nerfed that just feels like you’re being punished.

I also find it absurd that these disposition changes keep happening while weapons like the fang prime remain completely obsolete.

Its like, do you actually care about balance?

Could you maybe act like it?

Edited by (PS4)Mono-Pop
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Posted (edited)
Il y a 10 heures, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg a dit :

thank you - having nothing left to do in the game I was thinking about farming kuva/rolling rivens/farming arbitration for rivens but this reminded me all the work would likely be wasted.  Saved me a bunch of wasted time. 😂

Work ? Do you even know we're talking about a game here - not a job -  you know you can do other things if you have nothing else to do ingame, right ?

People are really weird nowadays.

Edited by 000l000

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I was on the other side of the fence a while back, laughing at all those people and how angry they get when DE messes with their favourite toys.
But now, I've invested into some Rivens and seeing them go up and down arbitrarily just cuz some other guns that suck have to get their day in the limelight, I understand the outrage.
Rivens were a bandaid that's now covering a very nasty cyst.

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13 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Work ? Do you even know we're talking about a game here - not a job -  you know you can do other things if you have nothing else to do ingame, right ?

People are really weird nowadays.

Work is the correct term, and it's a real term. Here's some simple math for you. Let's say you have really bad luck, and you have to roll a single Riven 70+ times to get decent stats for it, like +Critical Chance and +Infested Damage. It costs 19,959 Kuva to go from 0 to 10 rolls. At 11 to 70 rolls, you're spending 210,000 Kuva, plus the original 19,950 Kuva to get to 10, for a grand total of 229,950 Kuva. For the sake of easy math, let's say you get 200 Kuva every minute in Kuva Survival, and you run for 1 hour, giving you 12,000 Kuva per run. To get 229,950 Kuva, you would need to do 19.1 runs, or 19 hours and 10 minutes. Let's assume you're a high school or college student, so you have things like Homework, football practice, and such, leaving you 3 hours a day to play Warframe. You would need to play just over 6 days to get 229,950 Kuva. And just for comparison, let's take a no lifer like me, who doesn't have children, a wife/girlfriend, or any other responsibilities except a job, and can play 8 hours a day. At 8 hours a day, I would need to farm just over 2 days. Doing nothing but Kuva Survival. Working on a single Riven. And that's just a basic example, I've not even used my Lenz Riven, which has 106 rolls, or my Opticor Riven which has 325 rolls. If we take my 325 Riven, that's 1,122,450 Kuva, which is 93.5 hours, or 11.6 days no life'ing, or 31.1 days at 3 hours a day, just to get a Riven with A SINGLE DECENT STAT. And that's assuming you get 200 Kuva a minute, which we all know isn't the pay rate. Pay rate is closer to 90 seconds to 120 seconds due to how slow the life towers spawn, running between them, getting a canister to put in it, the load times in and out of missions, and such.

[DE]Conner just told someone who spent a month of a single Riven "Your time isn't important to me". He just told someone "I don't value the effort you put into our game". So yeah, sitting in a chair for 3 hours a day, risking blood clots forming in your legs, might not sound like work to you, but it takes mental power to not lose focus, or to go insane from the monotony, when the only thing you're doing for hours on end is killing a bunch of low level trash mobs that can't kill you unless you lose focus.

Finally, if we just assume we buy the Riven out right... If we assume prices are fair and don't peak 2,000 Plat for a Godly Riven, a minimum wage of 7.25 USD, and an average 8 hours per day, that one Riven would cost me a third of my pay check. That's a full 2 days spent flipping burgers, or ringing up the belligerent customer, or stocking shelves, or whatever. This is a problem with the Market, not DE, but there are ways to protect the players from these scalpers, like locking down these current Rivens and releasing new ones, or offering more ways to farm Rivens over than a once daily mission with low odds, or allowing us control over what we roll on our Rivens.

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So I spend time on low tier weapons, forma them, get a riven, roll tf out of it until I get something decent, forma again so riven fits and at the end you nerf the riven.

No point of using rivens anymore, or they nerf it or they release an exclusive mod that makes you get rid of a mod in your loadout already grinded.

 

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This is why I don't bother using plat on rivens or farming kuva to get the super godlike riven. First time the dispositions were updated I stopped worrying about rivens, now I just unveil a few of them when I have nothing to do or reroll when I get kuva from nightwave... If you work to get something good for it to be eventually nerfed what's really the point? I understand meta weapon rivens need changes but I mean even some crappy weapons that are only good with rivens are getting slapped for trying to be useful.

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cool smashed another one of my favorite guns and made the riven tar. 1.25 to 1.05 pfft, why not just remove the riven for the gun while your at it. thanks as always.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 3 heures, Hawk197 a dit :

Work is the correct term, and it's a real term. Here's some simple math for you. Let's say you have really bad luck, and you have to roll a single Riven 70+ times to get decent stats for it, like +Critical Chance and +Infested Damage. It costs 19,959 Kuva to go from 0 to 10 rolls. At 11 to 70 rolls, you're spending 210,000 Kuva, plus the original 19,950 Kuva to get to 10, for a grand total of 229,950 Kuva. For the sake of easy math, let's say you get 200 Kuva every minute in Kuva Survival, and you run for 1 hour, giving you 12,000 Kuva per run. To get 229,950 Kuva, you would need to do 19.1 runs, or 19 hours and 10 minutes. Let's assume you're a high school or college student, so you have things like Homework, football practice, and such, leaving you 3 hours a day to play Warframe. You would need to play just over 6 days to get 229,950 Kuva. And just for comparison, let's take a no lifer like me, who doesn't have children, a wife/girlfriend, or any other responsibilities except a job, and can play 8 hours a day. At 8 hours a day, I would need to farm just over 2 days. Doing nothing but Kuva Survival. Working on a single Riven. And that's just a basic example, I've not even used my Lenz Riven, which has 106 rolls, or my Opticor Riven which has 325 rolls. If we take my 325 Riven, that's 1,122,450 Kuva, which is 93.5 hours, or 11.6 days no life'ing, or 31.1 days at 3 hours a day, just to get a Riven with A SINGLE DECENT STAT. And that's assuming you get 200 Kuva a minute, which we all know isn't the pay rate. Pay rate is closer to 90 seconds to 120 seconds due to how slow the life towers spawn, running between them, getting a canister to put in it, the load times in and out of missions, and such.

[DE]Conner just told someone who spent a month of a single Riven "Your time isn't important to me". He just told someone "I don't value the effort you put into our game". So yeah, sitting in a chair for 3 hours a day, risking blood clots forming in your legs, might not sound like work to you, but it takes mental power to not lose focus, or to go insane from the monotony, when the only thing you're doing for hours on end is killing a bunch of low level trash mobs that can't kill you unless you lose focus.

Finally, if we just assume we buy the Riven out right... If we assume prices are fair and don't peak 2,000 Plat for a Godly Riven, a minimum wage of 7.25 USD, and an average 8 hours per day, that one Riven would cost me a third of my pay check. That's a full 2 days spent flipping burgers, or ringing up the belligerent customer, or stocking shelves, or whatever. This is a problem with the Market, not DE, but there are ways to protect the players from these scalpers, like locking down these current Rivens and releasing new ones, or offering more ways to farm Rivens over than a once daily mission with low odds, or allowing us control over what we roll on our Rivens.

Do not bother replying to rhetorical comments, especially with such a tedious wall of text !

And bringing maths all day long won't make your comment more valuable you know. DE isn't responsible of the terrible way you are spending your time, in warframe or anywhere else. A game is about having fun, not effort (hence my comment about jobs), so stop calling maths and get a dictionnary instead !

[DE]Connor was rude but right, you're not much mature and wrong.

Edited by 000l000

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On 2019-07-07 at 1:45 AM, Cloverskull said:

Weapon does X damage with a mod
Riven change
Weapon does <X damage with a mod

How is a reduction in effectiveness not a nerf?
 

i was talking about the weapons own values (unaffected by mods) because i was seeing posts with "weapon X got nerfed".

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"Stradavar and gorgon are so overpowered i just wanna bite my tongue when someone joins my group with em"

 

*Said no Tenno ever in the history of warframe. 

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5 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Work ? Do you even know we're talking about a game here - not a job -  you know you can do other things if you have nothing else to do ingame, right ?

People are really weird nowadays.

noun
 
  1. 1.
    activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
     
     
     
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

How about those of us who farm Sortie day after day to get Veiled Rivens, then pray that those Rivens unveil to a decent weapon, and then farm Kuva Survival for hours per day to get enough Kuva to roll decent stats, like +Critical Chance, +Damage, +Multishot, or such? How about those of us who don't spend platinum on Rivens, but time? No one wants to use the Kraken, or Viper, or such, because those weapons are simply trash weapons when we have weapons that don't need Rivens and do better than those weapons with Rivens. I don't need my Opticor Riven for my Opticor Vandal to be superior to the Ignis Wraith WITH an Ignis Riven.

 

So instead of trying to act like we all buy our Rivens, why not look at it from the perspective of a player like me, who farms for these Rivens? Because honestly, the players who are hurt most by these nerfs are us. Instead of playing Smash Ultimate, Elder Scrolls Online, or even some Warhammer, I chose to sit in front of my computer, and farm Kuva for 3 hours a day at minimum in order to gather enough Kuva to roll a piece of digital code three or four times. When I go on the EU server, there's a friendly little reminder that pops up after an hour of play time asking us to take a break every now and then, yet this game requires you to grind and grind and grind, so you CAN'T take a break if you want to get anywhere.

This.

I have 90 rivens at the moment(I have to sell them every once in a while because of the ridiculous cap thing) and I only paid for like 6 or 7 of em, which was probably around the time when they first came out and I mostly bought average rivens and tried my chances with rolls. The highest I paid for a riven was around 300 or 400 plat, most of em I bought sub 200.

But that is like 6-7 rivens out of 120+. 90% of them I got from sorties, couple of them from alerts. 

More than anything I invested time into them. It isn't just about losing plat.

edit  :

 

20 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

Rivens were a mistake to be honest.

The whole riven concept is likely one of the best creative decisions DE made to this game structurally. 

They just couldn't manage it well.

 

Edited by White_Matter
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27 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

Rivens were a mistake to be honest.

I agree with this in their current form. I'm amazed DE didn't see rivens being an issue before implementing them in the game. Simply zero forethought and zero testing before pushing the update live.

I think a sizable portion of this could have been avoided by simply making rivens untradable after they've been rolled. Unrolled values would obviously rise, but they wouldn't go atmospheric because the player still needed to take it upon themselves to farm the kuva and do the rolling. There's far more supply of insertweaponhere than any riven trader/hoarder could hold due to a 90 riven cap. People can still make some plat selling rivens for weapons they don't want/need/feel like rolling, players that want a buffed riven have to actually play the game to get it.

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23 hours ago, lainverse said:

Technically these are one and the same since people tend to pick the best dps guns for the job. It's just not as obvious. Of course you can deal a lot of damage in a single shot with Tigris Prime, but most of the time you don't need even 1/10 of that damage, but you need to dish it out a lot faster and over the large area. That's why Ignis and Catchmoon plummeted into the ground and Tigris actually got slight buff. It's OP in terms of a single-target DPS, but terrible agains large groups, so it's useless kind of OP in current state of a game. Of courese there are oddballs like most of the sniper rifles since they got popular only due to being surprisingly effective against Eidolons. On the other hand you don't really have to use Lanka/Rubico there. Everyone just got used to them there. Nowadays you may use even archgun for this (Velocitus in particular).

Here it is in action:

Surprise! It's actually better than Lanka.

Same as you aren't really bound to Chroma now when self-igniting Mirage were discovered which opens possibilities for even more guns to be used (like Euphona Prime or Tombfinger).

Check this out for example:

And yes, you don't even need rivens for this to work! They do help, but when you break Eidolon parts in 1-2 shots without them and can start shooting even before shield drops to land hits immediately when it drops... you can totally ignore their existence.

The issue is that while weapons that are strong are used, easily accessible weapons are also more frequently used. And eidolon hunting doesn't require a riven, instead rivens just make the hunt easier. The thing about snipers is that while they fill one niche of eidolon hunting, they often fall behind in general play. The nerfs to lanka and rubico are quite inconsequential in the grand scheme because itll shift damage from a S#&amp;&#036; ton to a boat load, both of which will be able to easily kill eidolons. 

 

Honestly I don't completely disagree with the popularity system, but I also think if a weapon is truly OP (or so strong that alternatives are a downgrade), the base values of the weapon should be adjusted before the riven numbers. Its quite offputting to see the balance change of an OP weapon be a riven disposition change rather than a base stat change.

Rivens are supposed to make guns stronger. Thats the point of them to make guns that are bad better and guns that are good great. But when you put a really strong gun with a really strong riven, DE chooses to nerf the riven. My prime example of this is the catchmoon. Catchmoon does isane amounts of damage and crit with infinite passthrough and a generous dropoff. So if a riven is added, the weapon becomes peerless in damage (maybe fulmin but that thing needs a nerf anyways). But I think instead of nerfing the riven, make catchmoon weaker so the riven makes the gun really good, but not OP. 

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