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[DE]Connor

July 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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ahhh... rant about nerfed meta... generic insult. unpleasant emotion. Insult other player. possible rare insult about (state of game, state of community, or rivens in general)

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En 6/7/2019 a las 20:46, DogeManX dijo:

Normally in any other game I would mostly agree with this. But fyi, DE balances around popularity and usage not dps.

No , its based in dps or some other criteria , but definetly not popularity or usage (no matter what DE said ..) or how do you explain a lot of this nerfs ? ,  do you believe viper is a popular weapon ? or gorgon ? or embolist ? .

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Could we start to get kuva spent on nerfed rivens as compensation? Because you are stealing time from people.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Popularity seems like a weird metric to balance rivens on.

 

Yes, but at least it would be consistant. They could have it metrically trackable and adjusted perfectly. Not that it would be the best balance or anything thing.

 

but fact is they have completely ditched that initially stated design/balance paradigm a little earlier in the year and no longer use popularity as the determining factor of disposition (Not that they were ever doing anything but an abysmal job of that anyway, just look at what dispositions were on some of the most popular weapons throughout the last year up until they started adjusting more regularly, and also note the explict addmission that they ignore any balancing factor they have in place if they want to just because "feels" ie detron and kohm)

They now use "internal power rankings" or some S#&$ . Which obviously has nothing to do with popularity and playerbase use.

Which just leads to a nearly incomprehensible disposition state for most weapons. Even the extreme ends of the disposition scales you can still find weird weapons. Like aformentioned kohm still being a 1.4 or something. So dispo probably only makes any real sense in a spreadsheet in complete isolation to every aspect in the game or any niche gameplay element found in the game. For example, the lanka isn't really good to take on 99% of the game and most players would choose something else, so it never really gets used, originally it had a high dispo because of that fact, and it's still not getting used all that much, then one specific boss fight comes out and the lanka finally gets used. That's enough to get its dispo nerfed, There are still other weaps options for that fight, and 99% of the game people still wouldn't bother with a lanka. But rip lanka rivens. And so on.

 

 

Edited by Ghogiel
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Is there any point in keeping rivens now? Considered how frequently these changes are taking place, it would be nice of DE to change the polarity of all the rivens to any-polarity, kinda like how aura forma works, cuz what is the point in keeping a nerfed D-polarity riven now?

 

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On 2019-07-08 at 1:31 PM, lainverse said:

I expected Catchmoon rivens plummet to the ground, so I didn't even bother looking for them. Well, I don't bother looking for specific rivens at all, but this one I'd sell on sight for exactly this reason. No reason to invest absurd amount of time into things which won't last and it were dead obvious that these won't last at all since this portable fek-all device is tremendously powerful without any rivens at all.

Regarding Gorgon... have you ever seen Prisma Gorgon? Besides, it's surprisingly good weapon to deal with Plague Star boss. No wonder it got popularity spike and rivens got nerfed a bit due to this. I expect it to return back in the next rivens updage or in the following after it.Technically Pyrana and Rattleguts may rebound a bit as well since they got popularity spike for the same reason. Not sure, though.

Straight to 0.5 and in some rare cases even a little bit below I guess. With how popular Ignis Wraith is I not surprised at all. Why anyone even bother acquiring a riven for it anyway?

I think they are not happy that people still one-shot Eidolons with these. Besides now we have Velocitus which does pretty much the same. Yes, the archgun.

It's 1.15 -> 1.1. Why it lost even that 0.05 is quite surprising, though. Sicarus Prime is nice, but not _that_ nice. Apparently it is, though.

Seems like a bad reason to me if that's the one, even without a riven I managed to one shot limbs at times and usually it's by taking advantage of abilities.
Snipers aren't the only weapons that do that as well. At this rate they're gonna nerf them till there's no point using them.

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On 2019-07-07 at 11:37 AM, bibmobello said:

The twin gremlin with a good riven is OP. Same for Gorgon, WTH would use the gorgon without a riven besides killing level 20 enemies?

I had a freaking great viper riven and in all honesty its not that good, despite almost max mutishot with damage and acceptable negative it was still far from op.

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6 hours ago, Yagamilight123 said:

No , its based in dps or some other criteria , but definetly not popularity or usage (no matter what DE said ..) or how do you explain a lot of this nerfs ? ,  do you believe viper is a popular weapon ? or gorgon ? or embolist ? .

They are based on popularity but i think its based on mr popularity.

What i mean is i think DE expects that you replace your weapons constantly as you rank up so every weapon must have an approtiate usage level starting from it mastery rank and maybe 3 more ranks?

I mean ever since the start of the adjustments DE constantly increases the disposition of the tonkor and the simulor, if they would take dps and other balance factors into it that would mean these weapons never get this high disposition because they were nerfed that hard for a reason (whenever you agree with that or not is another discussion).

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Just drop Rubico and Lanka to 0.5 and be done with it already.  This slow rip is incredibly painful and annoying.

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Honestly DE is being damn well inconsistent and irritating in its criteria for riven disposition adjustments

- some nerfs make no damn sense due to the low actual usage of the weapons; :awkward:

- others are annoying because keep repeatedly hitting the same weapons, and the cumulative nerf is very noticeable; :angry:

- riven disposition below 1 is unnecessary it usually outputs worse stats than regular mods, for a lot of expense and time wasted; :facepalm:

- high disposition weapons, that in theory need the riven buffs to stay relevant, get hit by "unusable tier" high negative scores on riven rolls as well; :facepalm:

- farming kuva is annoying , changing the stats on riven in inventory literally spits in the face of the player that had to grind for hours to get a half decent roll on a weapon he likes and invested heavily in modding, with no compensation for it (Tl:Dr it's my stuff, what right do you have to touch it dude?) :vomit:

- disposition changes shouldn't be retroactive, at worst should be implemented when rerolling or when completing a trade (with the new stats advertised before the fact); :thinking:

- no form of compensation for the kuva wasted when a riven gets repeatedly hit by nerfs; :angry:

- no way to get a sense of control or at least progression in the desired direction when rolling a riven, it's a complete crapshoot of a slot machine where you can't even lock the rollers you want to keep (for a price); :awkward:

- riven dissolution giving endo instead of kuva back; :suspicion:

So much for respecting players time investment! :angry::angry::angry::thumbdown:

On the technical side:

- is there any reason to have any modifier appear in any of the three slots of a riven? it creates unnecessary permutations of actually mechanically identical rivens with the same A,B,C buffs only in B-C-A, C-B-A, C-A-B and so on order, every other prefix-suffix-postfix system i've ever seen usually had specific tables for each position, with specific buffs appearing in more than one only if it was permitted to have them combining in a single overall buff like a [+base damage][+base damage][+base damage][any penalty] form;

- high value downsides (cursed stat) on high disposition, doesn't this defeat the purpose of enhancing low tier weapons to a better tier?

- all buffs and cursed values are in continuous increments of 0,1%, was there an actual need for so much granularity? (and resulting memory usage for riven storage?)

- if certain buffs result in game-breaking weapons, wouldn't make a certain sense if the corresponding standard mods are unavailable on the weapon when modding  like primed/regular mods are? the riven permits with one mod to equip multiple bonuses in one slot leaving space open for other mods;

- never seen some category specific buffs/curses like area of effect, noise level, beam range, pellets falloff and the like;

 

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3 hours ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

Let the Nerfs flow and I'm not sad about my tombfinger riven. 😎

You cant hide your emotions forever, its not healthy. 

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11 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Do not bother replying to rhetorical comments, especially with such a tedious wall of text !

And bringing maths all day long won't make your comment more valuable you know. DE isn't responsible of the terrible way you are spending your time, in warframe or anywhere else. A game is about having fun, not effort (hence my comment about jobs), so stop calling maths and get a dictionnary instead !

[DE]Connor was rude but right, you're not much mature and wrong.

I reply when people fail to understand something. Which seems I have to try and explain again.

1: It's been known for awhile that video games require time and effort. Like, it's been like that since the 6th century, when Chess was invented. If you want to be good at something, you put time into it. Yes, games are meant to be fun, but when you put time into that game, your time should be valued. My math shows why it should be valued to. Now, I may not be the right person to talk about the other side of gaming, but for people like AGGP, DKDiamanties, Quite Shy, Rahetalius, and other content creators, a game is also work, as not only do you have to spend time playing said game, you now have to spend time editing a video to upload. If you spent a week farming Kuva to make a video about a Riven, only for that Riven to then be nerfed, you not only had your time in game wasted, but now you have editing hours wasted too, as you could've spent that time on another video.

2: This game is full of grind. If you don't want to spend money, you grind. That simple. If you want Frost but aren't willing to pay, you farm the parts, then the materials to make the parts. Nothing in this game is handed to you for free. Grinding/Farming is just a word to describe the action in which you are wasting your time. This game is designed on the principle that you have to spend time on it, and when you spend time on it, you get rewarded. These changes are not rewarding the effort that was given.

3:  Rather I'm right or wrong is personal opinion. But mature? Please, I've yet to attack anyone. Instead of trying to evaluate my maturity, why don't you instead debate like an adult, and leave the mud flinging to children and politicians? I've given my reasons as to why these changes are bad, and how to fix these issues. If you need a quick refresher, here you go.

 

A: We need to know the whys certain things are changed, not some vague statement about some mysterious power scale that only DE knows about.

B: We need to be compensated in some fashion, like how we are refunded or given extra Forma when Warframes and Weapons are changed.

C : Current Rivens should be locked to their current owners, and new Rivens should be created, or Rivens for certain weapons should be locked to owners and removed from the pool.

Any of these three would be acceptable.

 

And believe me, if I were to attack someone, you'd know. I'm not one for discretion. I'm not politically correct either. If I'm attacking someone, I tell it like it is, even if my statements offend someone or gets me in trouble.

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On 2019-07-08 at 2:31 PM, ReyaXZy said:

Yes buffs on joke weapons also those *buffs* that you seem to like so much are quite small.

The nerfs are also a joke. Like with people acting like they are trash now.

Nah, they are still damn strong.

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On 2019-07-07 at 2:24 AM, kxZyle said:

Any chance we could get extra sources of Kuva to compensate for highly-rolled rivens losing their power? Perhaps a lowered reroll cost? Higher Kuva drops? Anything?

NO, you know what you were dealing with when DE told you that riven dispo will change every 3 months with each prime access. PSA to anyone else: buy high priced rivens at your own risk. DE will change riven dispo of popular weapons to keep the market in balance. 

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3 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

You cant hide your emotions forever, its not healthy. 

There is nothing to hide though since I knew before hand rivens will always be adjusted.

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

There is nothing to hide though since I knew before hand rivens will always be adjusted.

I am glad you are taking it positively. 
I dont have any issues with balancing. Every game needs balancing, warframe needs more. 
My issue is how the riven balancing is being made. 

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Posted (edited)

So if this based on popularity, why is Kohm still 5. I don't want the bs that kohm is worthless w/o riven. If Kohm is safe why aren't other weapons.

Just like Saryn, I sense bs favoritism.

Edited by The_Xtreme
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13 minutes ago, The_Xtreme said:

So if this based on popularity, why is Kohm still 5. I don't want the bs that kohm is worthless w/o riven. If Kohm is safe why aren't other weapons.

Just like Saryn, I sense bs favoritism.

Bias and irrationality. What else to expect from them?

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26 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

Bias and irrationality. What else to expect from them?

It might be why Hek (and vaykor hek) the most popular shotguns keeps getting buffed. 

Hek's riven are so weak most regular mods beat it easily. I didn't know DE was capable making actually good riven adjustments.

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8 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

The nerfs are also a joke. Like with people acting like they are trash now.

Nah, they are still damn strong.

Much white knight such wow.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-06 at 8:48 PM, DarkOvion said:

Some are clear sure.

But not all are even remotely clear, and some are just confusing.

For example, from the last two waves:

That thriving OP Baza meta.

The clearly too much Stradavar. Twice

Vulkar?

I don't recall the Akjagara lighting many fires. Twice

The Lato?

Twin Gremlins?

Vulkar Wraith got huge buffs a year ago. (As did all the snipers)  Prisma Twin Gremlins and Stradavar Prime didn't exist a year ago. And Lato Vandal was in hiding and unused for years until ESO came out.. The current state of these weapons was different when rivens were given their dispositions, and  all weapons that warrant nerfs to their rivens because there's a much stronger version of the weapons now.  ( Baza was introduced after rivens so always stayed at a static middle 3 with no adjustments at all.) But because they're not moving dispos more than .2 at a time, its taking a couple rounds to get them where they should be. 

 

It's better that they do a couple slow nerfs in a row rather than shifting them by huge amounts in one go, so people have time to figure out what to do with them. As upset as people are now with a stat going from 220 to 200, imagine the rage if a stat went from 220 to 80 overnight.


And I say this as a Twin Gremlin main who has a fantastic riven for it.  (I loved it even before the Prisma.) 

Personally I tend to use lesser used weapons, so I often find my rivens get *buffed* more than they get nerfed, I ususally get two or three increases for every one decrease, or my stuff stays left alone, so the changes don't bother me.

Edited by (PS4)Robby_Bevard

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I personally don't mind the changes, i'm always exited for them and the salt mines that follow.

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1 hour ago, ReyaXZy said:

Much white knight such wow.

Is calling someone a white knight the best you can do?

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