July 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

[Airwolfen]

3 hours ago, The_Xtreme said:

It might be why Hek (and vaykor hek) the most popular shotguns keeps getting buffed. 

Hek's riven are so weak most regular mods beat it easily. I didn't know DE was capable making actually good riven adjustments.

Serious answer here. Kohm is a special case for now where a small dispo change would crash most, if not all, of the high status rivens as they would fall below 120%. and 120% is the thing that makes the Kohm so strong as far as the riven goes (for those that actually use its full potential at this time). So its a tightrope  where there is small step down. Its either up there, or on the ground. No real in between as far as those builds go.

Yes, there are other good builds, but unlike all other weapons, this is not just a small DPS drop we are talking about.

So for now they opted to not nerf it. For now, at least. (I believe there is a second weapon that has this as well I believe, they were listed in the first round)

 

Personally I would like to see DE increase its status so that the riven can get its nerfs in. a possible need would be to nerf the 12 pellet count as well to make up for the base buff as well.

 

Anyway, its not exactly "bias and irrationality" cause the reason is very much rational.

[Buttaface]

Incompetent buffs:

Boltor, Quanta, Gammacor

Incompetent nerfs:

Glaxion, Gorgon, Stradavar, Tetra, Akjagara, Aklex, Embolist, Sicarus, Twin Gremlins, Viper

Quanta Vandal was one of the strongest ranged weapons in the game before it was inexplicably buffed and buffed more. Fine by me, I get lots of use out its OPness. Neither Gammacor nor Boltor were underperforming.

Glaxion and Gorgon both have very significant tradeoffs/disadvantages for use, and you've been BUFFING those regularly forever. Stradavar? Tetra? ridiculous to nerf those. Most of the rest reveal an utter lack of familiarity with weapons and their tradeoffs in a weapons system you should be intimately familiar with but are apparently not.

Learn your game and stop doing this via spreadsheet and on paper stats. Even better, get it done once and for all and then stop doing it for the foreseeable future. At least you have dropped the façade that this is all being done based on usage. Good for that bit of honesty at least.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 17 horas, Fallen_Echo dijo:

They are based on popularity but i think its based on mr popularity.

What i mean is i think DE expects that you replace your weapons constantly as you rank up so every weapon must have an approtiate usage level starting from it mastery rank and maybe 3 more ranks?

I mean ever since the start of the adjustments DE constantly increases the disposition of the tonkor and the simulor, if they would take dps and other balance factors into it that would mean these weapons never get this high disposition because they were nerfed that hard for a reason (whenever you agree with that or not is another discussion).

mmm maybe , but again , a lot of weapons that nobody use get nerfed so ....

[ReyaXZy]

4 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Is calling someone a white knight the best you can do?

Not gonna bother with a forum lurker like you anymore ^^

[(PSN)LANCERBOIGTI]

i wonder if they can be sued since when you buy some of those rivens with money and they change the stats on them.its not like your buying them with resources

 

[Airwolfen]

1 hour ago, ReyaXZy said:

Not gonna bother with a forum lurker like you anymore ^^

But you did already ^^

42 minutes ago, (PS4)LANCERBOIGTI said:

i wonder if they can be sued since when you buy some of those rivens with money and they change the stats on them.its not like your buying them with resources

 

You could try, honestly. But you wont have a point that can win you anything.

Its no direct purchase, as in you trade with platinum that was bought already. and the price was set between players. DE had nothing to do with that other then adding the scarcity. But that does not count in that. That + a boatload of other things makes it an unwinnable case.

And to top it all off stats were noted as not being fixed from day 1. That alone is defense enough to cover them in. Trade at your own risk is the end result.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LANCERBOIGTI said:

i wonder if they can be sued since when you buy some of those rivens with money and they change the stats on them.its not like your buying them with resources

 

Nope, you trade them with plat. Not real money. It's your own fault you traded that much plat for it.

[Novoz]

This is what's terrible about Warframe, the one and only thing I hate is how much work I put towards farming Kuva to get my Rivens and now you nerf all my grind into the ground.

You need to overhaul this Riven system. This just makes us feel like crap. All my favorite weapons pretty much got nerfed all of the rivens I use nerfed thanks a lot. So much for spending plat on boosters to farm Kuva.

[donglebonk]

On 2019-07-07 at 2:52 AM, Cloverskull said:

It wouldn't be an issue if people didn't have to spend tens of hours of kuva grind to roll a decent riven. It's borderline retarded to just go "the guns were too strong, so now your playtime is wasted in mass".

You know what? All of the community should stop playing for a couple days so DE would actually adress the issue and fix it. I guess they wouldn't like a strike.

[KennBone]

The problem is how DE face " the riven overpowered problem " keep the powerfull/most used weapons at 3/5 then buffs the left to 4/5  - 5/5  , we all win and we dont lose our hard work and time on our fav weapons rivens...

[(XBOX)Timidobserver]

47 minutes ago, Delacroixz said:

You know what? All of the community should stop playing for a couple days so DE would actually adress the issue and fix it. I guess they wouldn't like a strike.

There were admittedly some surprising nerfs, but most of the nerfs were predictable. I don't get how people are being caught off guard. For example, if you are using a Kripath riven it's guaranteed to be rendered into pure garbage on the first melee disposition update, so go ahead and start looking for an alternative. Get yourself a broken war riven if you want to have a solid fallback lol. 

[Mr.SpookSpook]

Well, Elder Scrolls Online is half price on Steam Sale, lots of other good games also cheap, Guild Wars 2 is F2P now. Thanks for giving me motivation to take a break from WF and spending my cash on other games instead.

[Xojira]

8 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Serious answer here. Kohm is a special case for now where a small dispo change would crash most, if not all, of the high status rivens as they would fall below 120%. and 120% is the thing that makes the Kohm so strong as far as the riven goes (for those that actually use its full potential at this time). So its a tightrope  where there is small step down. Its either up there, or on the ground. No real in between as far as those builds go.

Yes, there are other good builds, but unlike all other weapons, this is not just a small DPS drop we are talking about.

So for now they opted to not nerf it. For now, at least. (I believe there is a second weapon that has this as well I believe, they were listed in the first round)

 

Personally I would like to see DE increase its status so that the riven can get its nerfs in. a possible need would be to nerf the 12 pellet count as well to make up for the base buff as well.

 

Anyway, its not exactly "bias and irrationality" cause the reason is very much rational.

That is 100% bias. Everyone doesn't plays by the same rules.

[VolatileAcidity]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Timidobserver said:

There were admittedly some surprising nerfs, but most of the nerfs were predictable. I don't get how people are being caught off guard. For example, if you are using a Kripath riven it's guaranteed to be rendered into pure garbage on the first melee disposition update, so go ahead and start looking for an alternative. Get yourself a broken war riven if you want to have a solid fallback lol. 

Eh, don't bother with broken war, gram doesn't need a riven and still tears through lvl 100+ enemies in 2-4 hits with 0 combo. I doubt the spin 2 win broken bull(Sh!t) combo will be changed, as it's part of the stance mod... And if that disappears, you can just go dagger + covert lethality ash, or arca titron for fat damage executes. Or you can just use Saryn, cause you know, who needs guns anyways.

While the riven nerfs are upsetting, that just makes the so called "meta" smaller. People will still use top tier weapons (tiberon, kitguns, etc) because the weaker weapons simply can't compete, and even if they have a riven, rivens are (you guessed it) rng based. Getting a good roll might never happen, and hence all you have is wasted time and a trash tier weapon.

Instead of continuously nerfing rivens and buffing trash ones, they should look at actually balancing some of the guns themselves. Sure, the Drakgoon looks cool, but it will never compete with Tigris prime, or any other shotgun for that matter. Bows just simply don't fit Warframes meta anymore, besides Lenz, Mutalist Cernos(maybe for a meme build), and a big maybe on crossbows. I'm not sure why you would handicap yourself into using worse weapons. Just use the top tier without a riven, DE will eventually see that even without rivens, top tier guns will continue to be the most used... At least until they nerf the stats of those too. Just waiting for that to happen, and if it does, they had better compensate the forma.

Also, Kripath melee will still be good, stat sticks are just too good with condition overload. That will be another problem with melee, even if 3.0 eventually comes out. Garbage tier melee will continue to be garbage tier. Like "Hey, do you want to use this Zenistar? Or would you like to use this FaNtaStiC HeAt sWoRd, oR MaYbE TwO oF ThEm?" Same goes for many of the other melee weapons. Fragor, Heliocor, Maggistar, Sibear, Kestrel, Anku, Korrudo, Dakra Prime, Ripkas, Guandao, Kogake, etc.

This applies to ranged weapons too unfortunately.... Dual Toxocyst, Vaykor Marelok, Ballistica Prime, Lex Prime, Aklex Prime, Synoid Simulor, Burston Prime, Ogris, Daikyu, Sancti Tigris, and even the regular Opticor, which is only used because it's a BFG, but it is outclassed by tons of other weapons (only reason it saw tons of use was due to a bug, fancy that)... Almost all these weapons require relatively high MR rank, and simply aren't worth it when you can grab the following at a lower MR rank:
Phantasma, Fulmin, Ignis Wraith, Lenz, Hek... This isn't to mention that Kitguns have an MR requirement of 0... So why use any other weapon besides a kitgun? And if not those, Atomos shreds through enemies and is only MR 5.

Long story short, just don't bother with rivens anymore, since most, if not all of your work done can be for moot.Time spent with nothing to gain is time wasted. Just throw primed cryo rounds/primed heated charge on there and be done with it, wait for DE to fix this mess they created.

[Airwolfen]

28 minutes ago, The_Xtreme said:

That is 100% bias. Everyone doesn't plays by the same rules.

Statistics are still statistics. Calling it bias because it does not fit your case at that point wont change that.

Fact. 120% status rivens for the kohm generally only barely go over that count.
Fact. The implecations of that going sub 120% hit WAY harder then a 20-5% effectiveness loss on a straight DPS weapon with DPS riven stats.

These are not bias. you can measure and see them yourself in game. One player can play damage Kohm and another Status. But that wont make those points any less true.

[OptimusFrame]

i am always amazed that rivens are able to be worse than the double elemental mods with double the mod cost, S#&$ like this shouldnt happen

[VolatileAcidity]

21 minutes ago, OptimusFrame said:

i am always amazed that rivens are able to be worse than the double elemental mods with double the mod cost, S#&$ like this shouldnt happen

Agreed, the fact that you need near perfect rolls just to rival a 60/60 mod is kinda ridiculous. But hey, Balance.

Rivens should have a minimum dispo of 0.75 - 0.8, as anything lower makes it incredibly difficult to get rolls that rival regular mods.

[birdobash]

Riven dispositions being changed regularly was a known fact, and any trading of expensive rivens with platinium and changing popularity due to usage was 100% a given, yet I still see many people complaining about dispos being changed for their favourite weapons and things like "This is unfair to the playerbase". This is something that I wish everybody would just get in their heads, when you participate in riven trading or riven rolling, you are basically signing an agreement that "any and all rivens you own" are susceptible to have changes in stats.

Rather than complain about individual weapon riven dispos being changed and them being unwarranted, instead you should provide feedback on how to better the riven system, such as making it more fun or more rewarding to farm kuva for rolls, or reducing the amount of RNG in rivens, or perhaps raising the minimum disposition any weapon can hit. Any and all things such as these are helpful feedback, complaining that your embolyst or rubico riven got a disposition nerf despite you spending plat or kuva on them isn't. 

A message from your local tenno.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Y'all are acting like it's the end of the world. Jesus. It's not like you guys a) didn't know this was bound to happen and b) need weapons to be game-breakingly powerful. 

There's more salt in the first two pages of this thread than there is in the entire oceans of the Earth. You guys are acting like you got neutered with rusty scissors and no anesthesia. 

[--Aegis--MR9]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Y'all are acting like it's the end of the world. Jesus. It's not like you guys a) didn't know this was bound to happen and b) need weapons to be game-breakingly powerful. 

There's more salt in the first two pages of this thread than there is in the entire oceans of the Earth. You guys are acting like you got neutered with rusty scissors and no anesthesia. 

At the end of the world we all die, but this I gotta live with, which makes it worse. 

Jokes aside, we all know changes are bound to happen. I welcome balancing because it's important. The way they are balancing weapons by changing riven Dispo Based on player usage is not the proper way to do weapon balancing, it's lazy and a big middle finger to the playerbase. 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

1 minute ago, MR9BCI said:

At the end of the world we all die, but this I gotta live with, which makes it worse. 

Jokes aside, we all know changes are bound to happen. I welcome balancing because it's important. The way they are balancing weapons by changing riven Dispo Based on player usage is not the proper way to do weapon balancing, it's lazy and a big middle finger to the playerbase. 

Which is precisely why I barely use Rivens in the first place.

My playstyle doesn't revolve around Level 120 enemies or Teralysts, and if DE is pulling s*** like this, then I'm not touching Rivens with a 10-foot Bo staff.

[Xojira]

5 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Statistics are still statistics. Calling it bias because it does not fit your case at that point wont change that.

Fact. 120% status rivens for the kohm generally only barely go over that count.
Fact. The implecations of that going sub 120% hit WAY harder then a 20-5% effectiveness loss on a straight DPS weapon with DPS riven stats.

These are not bias. you can measure and see them yourself in game. One player can play damage Kohm and another Status. But that wont make those points any less true.

Then why does Hek keep going up? You're going to tell me no one uses Hek? That the more people use supra(and vandal) more than Hek? That's a one good. If you seriously believe the usage base of kohm is that little enough to warrant ZERO CHANGE. DE doesn't nerf it cause they know people will not spend plat on Kohm rivens if they touch that dispo. They know they can get away with lanka and rubico(as examples), so they do.

This is just a big scheme to get people throw thousands of plat into DE's new favorite fulmin. And once the market peaked on that expect that riven's dispo to tank. This simply in the name of profit. Not balance.

[Gruiz]

19 minutes ago, The_Xtreme said:

Then why does Hek keep going up? You're going to tell me no one uses Hek? That the more people use supra(and vandal) more than Hek? That's a one good. If you seriously believe the usage base of kohm is that little enough to warrant ZERO CHANGE. DE doesn't nerf it cause they know people will not spend plat on Kohm rivens if they touch that dispo. They know they can get away with lanka and rubico(as examples), so they do.

This is just a big scheme to get people throw thousands of plat into DE's new favorite fulmin. And once the market peaked on that expect that riven's dispo to tank. This simply in the name of profit. Not balance.

Why would people spending plat by trading (which earned from trading) will be profit for DE?

[--Aegis--MR9]

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Why would people spending plat by trading (which earned from trading) will be profit for DE?

Someone is purchasing that plat you are getting from trading. If you think people only spends plat that they farm you are so wrong. If that was the case then plat in this game would be extremely hard to get by trading.

I have seen MR5-10 spending thousands of plats in game, which is awesome because they are supporting the developers and keeping the economy alive.

Bottom line, lots of people spend thousands of dollars buying plat and they don't need all that plat for slots and potatoes. Riven is the biggest market in Warframe. 

[Gruiz]

2 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

Someone is purchasing that plat you are getting from trading. If you think people only spends plat that they farm you are so wrong. If that was the case then plat in this game would be extremely hard to get by trading.

I have seen MR5-10 spending thousands of plats in game, which is awesome because they are supporting the developers and keeping the economy alive.

Bottom line, lots of people spend thousands of dollars buying plat and they don't need all that plat for slots and potatoes. Riven is the biggest market in Warframe. 

But then, does the Platinum dissapear? It doesn't.. its simply transfered for other to use (until they use it for market item)

It is player choice for spending thousand of plat (with agreement) in trading.. noone force you to spend thousands of those in a single riven