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July 2019 Riven Disposition Updates


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FAO DE

If Vectis gets nurffed again my rivens with -magazine wont make it single shot any more. 

I heard that kohm rivens wont be nurffed as getting 100% status is the make or break of them. Well same is true of vectis and many other weapons. Most of my rivens are "comfort" rivens, ones that fix a fault or free up a slot or just make crit or status more reliable. Your trashing my game with your "balances", pls stop.

Also iv noticed how any weapon thats meta for eddy hunts gets nurffed, snipers and catchmoon etc. Just becuse DE dont know how to do boss fights. Making something invunarble for 90% of the time while you make people repeatedly jump through contrived hoops is not a fun fight, its just annoying. Even more so when I dont hunt, I use my sniper for normal missions most of which I play solo but i'm taking a kicking becuse the devs are trying to balance a PvE game as they cant seem to bear the fact that some clever folks can destroy there end game content in a matter of minutes several times a night cycle. 

Nurffing rivens for meta weapons is pointless as within days something else will become meta and your back to square one. All it really does is waste peoples plat so they have to buy more to get back to where they were. Or is that the point? Are rivens just a plat sink to you DE? is it all about the dolla? Make people have to keep trading and buy plat to do so? 

I've put money into this game, surported it as i thought it was worth it. Brought every prime accses and unvaulting weather i had the stuff in them or not. But now i see my investment slipping away, my perfect builds ruined, my time effort and money wasted. its demoralising to say the least. Warframe is no longer my only game, my money goes elsewhere now. I'll buy the Nekros Unvaulting when it happens as I want the noggle, but apart from that i doubt i'll be spending much if any money here. Atleast not untill you realise PvE isn't meant to be ballanced, thats why most single player campaign games let you chose easy, medium, hard etc. My hard setting was running round with a stug and heat sword seeing how far i could solo hydron. My easy setting was Saryn. I just cant be bothered with it any more, that stupid eidolon chicken thing was the last straw, shoot its elbows, ride it around like a drunken camel, yeah smashing de, gg, just gg. 

 

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On 2019-07-07 at 2:34 AM, --Brandt-- said:

At this point, what is the point of rivens if you're going to nerf them over and over until they're useless? If you don't like them, remove them. Simple...

For example: Catchmoon. 130.8% damage and 65.3% multishot to 98.1% damage and 49% multishot. 

In 3 months are you going to make it worse yet again? I don't know, maybe 57% damage and 30% multishot?

The point of Rivens is to make lesser used weapons more used. Catchmoon is getting used a lot, so it gets nerfed. It started at 1.0 disposition like all new weapons.
Also, should it keep getting nerfed to a 0.5 Disposition... Having a Riven with 3 positives w/o neg like you would result in 74.1 damage and 40.4, in the worst case (When getting the worst -10% stat roll). So don't worry ^^

On 2019-07-07 at 2:47 AM, -Augustus- said:

Thank you for confirming I should not be buying plat.

DE never intended Plat being spend to buy rivens, so your reasoning does not make sense.

On 2019-07-07 at 1:27 AM, Reifnir said:

Can we please fix the minimum Riven dispo at 1.0? I mean, it literally hurts to see my hard work (yes, farming Kuva is a chore) go down the drain again and again? 

Minimum is and will probably always stay at 0.5, i see no problem with that, since the maximum is 1.55. Although maybe it should be capped at 1.5, just to make some sense.

On 2019-07-07 at 2:43 AM, HellKnightX said:

Why do you keep overnerfing the Tiberon? These are huge nerfs, and it's not even a meta weapon! This is what, three or four times in a row that it's been hit with a hard nerf.

On 2019-07-07 at 1:29 AM, SordidDreams said:

Oh yeah, because it wasn't too weak already.

On 2019-07-07 at 1:29 AM, Kleidon said:

Quit butchering my Pyrana. It's not even that good anymore!

(Insert more quotes of people complaining about their favourite weapon being nerfed via Riven Dispo)

While i agree it sucks, that some weak weapons are getting nerfed that way, and also own a Pyrana and Tiberon Riven, it has to happen with the current way Rivens work. The more a weapon gets used, the lower its Disposition will get. Since Pyrana is one of the most used secondaries in the game it will keep getting Nerfed until people stop using it so much.

 

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I dont see any sense in nerfing , hours/days/weeks of pure farming of kuva. 

Isnt anyone who will have a booster and a smeeta kavat buffing everytime to get a high quantity of kuva. 

Still. Why isnt like the old times.. Who had a strong riven will still have this strong riven, want to not break the market ? create an option to make the riven untradable. So most of the people will have their strong weapons, instakilling their eidolons, instead of breaking some weapons who doesnt make any sense ( tetra... ? who use? now will dissapear)

I know. is needed to change the meta, but.. Most of players are tired of farming to roll the rivens. and get a HUGE nerf . like tiberon.

Or rivens who have one purpose like rubico/lanka/vectis in eidolon hunt. No other weapon can give the damage necessary to kill those beasts. like this 3.

If in a future. They give kuva , for those people who farmed LIKE CRAZY based on rolls and the multiplier they taked off. will be a good way to tranquilize a lil.

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Has Conner reared yet to explain these changes yet? I stopped playing when the nerfaning happened. Haven't even bothered farming the new Primes yet, as all my time currently is invested in Elder Scrolls Online. The new Prime gear would get me to the next MR, but I just don't care enough right now since eventually my time playing will be devalued. Really curious as to why he thinks these changes were just though. As others have said, there's no reason to use the Hind or Pyrana over other weapons, like the Soma or Catchmoon, Riven or not. The Hind has piss poor stats, even WITH a Riven, when compared to even the base Soma WITHOUT a Riven. A 300% crit chance Riven doesn't even get it to 50% crit chance, whereas a base 150% crit chance gets Soma to 75% crit chance. This is why we don't use the Hind. Other, better options exist. You can say the Hind is a MR 0 weapon all you want, but @Fire2box Riven is MR16. Doesn't matter if the weapon itself is MR 0, when the Riven for said weapon is at minimum MR 8. The Soma is MR 6. Someone whose MR 6 can use the Soma with a fully maxed out Point Strike long before they could use the Hind with a MR 16 Riven, or even the Hind with a MR 8 Riven. It makes no sense, as by the time you DO reach MR 16, you could be using BETTER weapons, like the Opticor or Arca Plasmor, instead of the Hind.

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12 hours ago, Xintaur said:

DE never intended Plat being spend to buy rivens, so your reasoning does not make sense.

 

Can you quote your source for this statement? Becuse quite frankly i think for a business to introduce a unique, desirable and tradeable item into a game with a market like warframe and not at any point be influenced by profit is unrealistic. You can't keep a business afloat just by selling deluxe skins and reactors.

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On 2019-07-12 at 4:29 AM, Fire2box said:

But they won't touch Ninkondi because it just primed just watch. They won't piss off the people who paid them money. 

Stradavar. 

Not sure if thats how its spelt, but as its a made up word and i guess its close enough i dont care.  

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People are lazy and use plat to shortcut their way and rush the game to buy rivens at absurd prices essentialy just for bragging rights(PvE game, there's no topscore board with prizes for best damage), then *@##$ about riven nerfs. No one forced them to spend so much money on a riven, they did it on their own volition. 

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If they want Rivens to popularize unpopular weapons, why not buff those but leave the original Rivens alone? The way they're going about this is clearly pissing off a lot more people than it's appeasing. Do the Devs even know about this? Do they see this 25 page thread and go, "Meh, not a big deal?"

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21 hours ago, Xintaur said:

(Insert more quotes of people complaining about their favourite weapon being nerfed via Riven Dispo) 

While i agree it sucks, that some weak weapons are getting nerfed that way, and also own a Pyrana and Tiberon Riven, it has to happen with the current way Rivens work. The more a weapon gets used, the lower its Disposition will get. Since Pyrana is one of the most used secondaries in the game it will keep getting Nerfed until people stop using it so much.

Excuse you, I was talking about the Stradavar. And while I thought it might become my favorite weapon before the prime was released, I ended up immensely disappointed with it precisely because it turned out to be far too weak, so as a result I didn't even use it prior to this dispo adjustment. Needless to say the adjustment is unlikely to make it worth using for me.

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On 2019-07-17 at 6:32 AM, Xintaur said:

DE never intended Plat being spend to buy rivens, so your reasoning does not make sense.

You have no personal knowledge as to what DE intended; claiming you do suggests the rest of your point is similarly baseless.

 

We do know DE (a) intended for rivens to be tradeable between players for plat, because that's the system DE implemented; and (b) knew rivens would have a huge impact on endgame play, because they've spent significant amount of time and resources on balancing rivens on an ongoing basis. You cannot seriously suggest DE thought anything would happen with rivens other than players grinding for the most desirable rivens/stats, and those in turn becoming a significant portion of the player economy that is facilitated almost exclusively by purchased plat (non-purchased plat not being tradeable, and few trades being item/mod bartered for item/mod). 

 

Accordingly, the most reasonable reading of DE's intention w/r/t rivens is they would -- whatever else they added to the game -- increase plat purchases, being the biggest (albeit indirect, as they're not sold by DE) P2W aspect of Warframe and players thus wanting to be able to buy them from other players. If DE wanted rivens to not become the dominant force in the plat-facilitated player economy that they so obviously are, DE would have made them like Umbral mods -- untradeable. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2019-07-18 at 4:03 PM, SordidDreams said:

Excuse you, I was talking about the Stradavar. And while I thought it might become my favorite weapon before the prime was released, I ended up immensely disappointed with it precisely because it turned out to be far too weak, so as a result I didn't even use it prior to this dispo adjustment. Needless to say the adjustment is unlikely to make it worth using for me.

I am aware you were talking about the Stradavar. Pyrana and Tiberon are by no means weak weapons. I just explained why the strength of a weapon is not connected to riven disposition.

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Цитата

Yes, but at least it would be consistant.

Yes its consistantly being s**t, I give you that.

The result? Last time I farmed kuva was MONTHS ago, I have tons of those mods I no longer interested in to the point of not wanting to even do its challenges.

I mean good job as always. Oh and last but not least, all rivens I used way back for eidoolons I can wipe my ... now with them thats how good they are now. And all rivens I have for unpopular weapons dont even bring it anywhere, nowhere near the point where I would consider using them over normal weaposn without rivens. So yeah, nice cashgrab, no need for mtx, no need for gamble like mechanics, just introduce rivens and grab the money while you can.

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3 hours ago, Xintaur said:

I am aware you were talking about the Stradavar. Pyrana and Tiberon are by no means weak weapons. I just explained why the strength of a weapon is not connected to riven disposition.

Excuse you, your understanding of how rivens work is outdated, DE have stated they have created a power ranking that they base riven disposition updates on, at least partly. So kindly stop spreading misinformation.

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On 2019-07-27 at 11:36 PM, SordidDreams said:

Excuse you, your understanding of how rivens work is outdated, DE have stated they have created a power ranking that they base riven disposition updates on, at least partly. So kindly stop spreading misinformation.

Alright, but apparently your information does not seem to correspond with DE's disposition updates, so i feel like they still go with the older, easier way of adapting rivens.

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11 hours ago, Xintaur said:

Alright, but apparently your information does not seem to correspond with DE's disposition updates, so i feel like they still go with the older, easier way of adapting rivens.

Are you accusing DE of not being truthful? I'm shocked!

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  • 1 month later...

Proposition:  All riven changes should have at least a sentence of explanation as to why the change is being effected, which can include or just be showing usage statistics.

 

Separate wild idea: What if disposition was based on your own personal usage statistics?  To encourage people to use more weapons?  You use the Rubico too much and the disposition lowers by 1 dot roughly every 3 days.  It recovers 1 dot per 3 days it hasn't been used.

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On 2019-09-18 at 11:42 PM, Kingsmount said:

Proposition:  All riven changes should have at least a sentence of explanation as to why the change is being effected, which can include or just be showing usage statistics.

 

Separate wild idea: What if disposition was based on your own personal usage statistics?  To encourage people to use more weapons?  You use the Rubico too much and the disposition lowers by 1 dot roughly every 3 days.  It recovers 1 dot per 3 days it hasn't been used.

There’s no explanation given because the explanation hasn’t changed. Popular weapons have their disposition lowered.

Theres not really anything more to it than that.

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22 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

There’s no explanation given because the explanation hasn’t changed. Popular weapons have their disposition lowered.

Theres not really anything more to it than that.

I don't think it would be too much to ask for reasons. As I've stated before, what factors determine if something gets a buff or nerf? We know of factors, but we don't know what those factors are. Usage? Release date? Steve getting killed too many times by a weapon in Conclave? Conner favoring a weapon any specific month? What factors determine these changes?

 

Popularity also doesn't mean anything. Yes, it guides certain nerfs, but there are others that make no sense. Some of these weapons, like the Embolist, aren't the most popular weapons when compared to Kitguns, or even Syndicate secondaries. This is where transparency is needed. Some of us put months into a single riven, so when rivens get nerfed out of no where, it invalidates the time and effort put into those rivens. When our only options to get primary, secondary, and melee rivens are Sorties, which are only once a day, and aren't guaranteed drops, which also don't have ways to guarantee specific stats or lock pre-rolled stats in, you can't go invalidating time and effort the players put into the grind without good reason. So far, we've yet to get a good reason. I can guarantee players have left the game because of this lack of communication. I've not bothered playing Warframe since these riven changes, and I know a few of my clan mates have stopped playing to due to burnout. They spent hours a day just farming Kuva to roll rivens. There's nothing to do in endgame, except play dress up, and roll rivens, and when one of those things is taken away, why bother?

 

Most of us aren't looking for exact reasons. Most of us already know rivens are the main reason people buy plat right now, as we don't have weekly reinforcements anymore. We just want to know the reason behind the choices. Is a weapon too popular? Well, most of the weapons in game are complete trash, and would need a 10/5 disposition to even compete with those popular weapons. My Catchmoon without a riven would still be better than a Marelok with a riven. That's power creep for you. And no matter how hard you try, you can't get rid of power creep, you can only delay it. Even if every gun was within 1% of each other, there would still be guns that are 1% stronger than other guns. And if every gun was equal in strength, why bother releasing new weapons at all if it's just as strong as a weapon released during Alpha?

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1 hour ago, Hawk197 said:

I don't think it would be too much to ask for reasons. As I've stated before, what factors determine if something gets a buff or nerf? We know of factors, but we don't know what those factors are. Usage? Release date? Steve getting killed too many times by a weapon in Conclave? Conner favoring a weapon any specific month? What factors determine these changes?

 

Popularity also doesn't mean anything. Yes, it guides certain nerfs, but there are others that make no sense. Some of these weapons, like the Embolist, aren't the most popular weapons when compared to Kitguns, or even Syndicate secondaries. This is where transparency is needed. Some of us put months into a single riven, so when rivens get nerfed out of no where, it invalidates the time and effort put into those rivens. When our only options to get primary, secondary, and melee rivens are Sorties, which are only once a day, and aren't guaranteed drops, which also don't have ways to guarantee specific stats or lock pre-rolled stats in, you can't go invalidating time and effort the players put into the grind without good reason. So far, we've yet to get a good reason. I can guarantee players have left the game because of this lack of communication. I've not bothered playing Warframe since these riven changes, and I know a few of my clan mates have stopped playing to due to burnout. They spent hours a day just farming Kuva to roll rivens. There's nothing to do in endgame, except play dress up, and roll rivens, and when one of those things is taken away, why bother?

 

Most of us aren't looking for exact reasons. Most of us already know rivens are the main reason people buy plat right now, as we don't have weekly reinforcements anymore. We just want to know the reason behind the choices. Is a weapon too popular? Well, most of the weapons in game are complete trash, and would need a 10/5 disposition to even compete with those popular weapons. My Catchmoon without a riven would still be better than a Marelok with a riven. That's power creep for you. And no matter how hard you try, you can't get rid of power creep, you can only delay it. Even if every gun was within 1% of each other, there would still be guns that are 1% stronger than other guns. And if every gun was equal in strength, why bother releasing new weapons at all if it's just as strong as a weapon released during Alpha?

want a factor? they will nerf op weapons like rubico or tiberon to release a much more op weapon in the future an example of that is fulmin/accestral and ....

why they do this? so people will spend their plats on new meta weapons the riven market is so crazy these days for a unrolled riven sometimes you have to pay 1000plats which is too much

they should fix this broken riven market that would be good for all of us how they can do this? well i think they should give us freedom on what stats we want on a riven for example you give like 1k kuva for fully random roll,and you can give 5k for a guaranteed stat you want like (a guaranteed cc) this will make the whole riven market a friendly and much better one in my opinion because as of how riven market is today i have no interested in either rolling or buying rivens

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23 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

 Some of us put months into a single riven, so when rivens get nerfed out of no where, it invalidates the time and effort put into those rivens. When our only options to get primary, secondary, and melee rivens are Sorties, which are only once a day, and aren't guaranteed drops, which also don't have ways to guarantee specific stats or lock pre-rolled stats in, you can't go invalidating time and effort the players put into the grind without good reason.

This is my main issue with all this riven balancing act mess, in particular when certain weapons are hit multiple times in a row, like the Pyrana, while kitguns literally overshadow most secondaries by design and have decent riven dispositions (until the next nerf)... the rare disposition improvements on the other side are largely irrelevant due to the underlying weapons being nearly unsalvageable with percentual improvements instead of additive improvements to their low base stats.

Also considering the massive slot machine the system is, when you end needing upwards of 78 rolls to get something salvageable outof a riven for a weapon you like, do you think it is fine iwhen someone then comes and make it worse?

There are weapons with rock bottom dispositions since forever that have already been left behind by the current arsenal due to having been meta in another age - on the other end of the spectrum weapons so bad that even max disposition wouldn't save them, considering that the negative modifiers are also as proportionally high (isn't quite against the stated intent of making even trash weapons regain usability???)

I've stated already somewere else in the discussion on riven changes: after all the time sunk in sorties, kuva farming, rerolling and so on, seeing the rivens you worked to bring to at least an acceptable level (because you really don't want to see any more roll of +% flight speed, status duration, ammo max, -multishot or damage) feels very much like when you return home after  a weekend and find it trashed by vandals.

On a more tecnical facet, rivens are also coded in a surprisingly overcomplicated way: what need there was to have every modifier slanted to possibly appear in position A  B C or D (negative effect) of a riven, with values to the 2nd decimal?! the number of permutations of the functionally same riven, with slight differences in the 4 percentiles is staggering!

Also there are some bonuses/penalities missing from the pool, like innate ammo conversion, Area of Effect, beam range, precision, arming distance for launchers (think acceltra and akarius having their 10 meters safety feature) and maybe another pair I'm missing...

Melee rivens conversely got access to the mechanics of the acolite mods in their pool of modifiers.

If adjustments must be made, then riven stats should be set to the new disposition only when said rivens leave a player's inventory due to trading, with the final stats being clearly outlined for both parties (buyer and seller)

Or give back to the owner the invested kuva in proportion to the disposition reduction the riven suffered

The time investment of players, as Steve ofthen said, see the Hema fiasco, should be respected, then i'd like to see compensation for the pile of rivens I own, and use that suffered a hit to their disposition, because it's all time investment that was made void...

 

Tl:Dr too much slot machine syndrome when rolling riven, massive time sink invalidted on a whim by DE = disheartening

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On 2019-09-23 at 6:24 AM, --Vampires_SE7EN said:

want a factor? they will nerf op weapons like rubico or tiberon to release a much more op weapon in the future an example of that is fulmin/accestral and ....

why they do this? so people will spend their plats on new meta weapons the riven market is so crazy these days for a unrolled riven sometimes you have to pay 1000plats which is too much

they should fix this broken riven market that would be good for all of us how they can do this? well i think they should give us freedom on what stats we want on a riven for example you give like 1k kuva for fully random roll,and you can give 5k for a guaranteed stat you want like (a guaranteed cc) this will make the whole riven market a friendly and much better one in my opinion because as of how riven market is today i have no interested in either rolling or buying rivens

This just means DE doesn't care about the product they sell. Imagine if you were to buy a new car, and that company comes to your house after a year and says "We have to downgrade your engine. But you can buy our new car with the same engine you already had". I've already gone in depth as to why buffs are better than nerfs several times, but I'll repeat it once more. When you nerf something, you're telling the person that their investment, be it financial, emotional, or hard work, in that thing isn't important. Yes, DE is a company and the goal of every company should be making money, but when you're sacrificing costumer relations and burn bridges between them and you, you lose money in the long run. You may make 100k the day, but you could make 1m that year instead. Could you make more money by milking? Sure, you may make 100k every day for the first month, but what happens when costumers finally had enough? Look at Konami, EA, and Activation. They burned some serious bridges in the pursuit of money. Konami is crawling back to the console market because gambling is getting more regulations in Japan, EA is hated by almost everyone for their loot boxes, and Activation drains the life out of fan favorite studios and games before shutting them down. DE needs to respect the players. We put time, effort, and money into this game. We farm Sorties for rivens, then farm the kills or resources for the mission, then Kuva to roll the riven, and more Kuva to keep rolling it. Just to give you an idea of the time required for the first roll, Kuva Survival gives 200 per tower, and towers take about 1.5 minutes to spawn, plus another 30 seconds or so to run to it, so roughly 2 minutes total. The first roll costs 900 Kuva, which means you're spending about 10 minutes for a single roll if you don't have any boosters or a cat buff. My Opticor riven have about 300 rolls on it, which means at minimum it has 1,015,000 Kuva in it. Using the baseline just established, that's 5,075 minutes spent farming enough Kuva for that amount, or just over 3 days of continuous play. But not everyone plays every waking second, so again, using the baseline of 4 hours (9.5 hours at work, plus 4 hours with the family, plus 6 hours for sleeping), it'll take you roughly 20 days. Forcing long grind sessions on players isn't how you maintain a healthy game. No, that doesn't mean you should be handed everything you want, when you want, but you shouldn't be forced this amount of grind for something as basic as a riven. Rivens aren't some raid reward you get for killing an epic boss.

 

Remember, nothing in this game is supported forever. Once you've all the Arbitration rewards, all the Disruption rewards, all the Arcanes, or at least all the rewards from these missions you care about, the only thing left to do is Fashionframe, and Kuva farming. If you take away value from one activity, what's left? If Kuva becomes worthless because the rivens are garbage, all you have left is Fashionframing, and I can go play Gaia Online to play dress up. If Fashionframing doesn't get anymore support, all you have left is Kuva farming, and that will burn you out in a hurry. I'm playing Destiny 2 right now, and while I'm still new to the game, I feel as though even once I max out my level, there's still stuff to do. Raids, PvP, farm gear, craft Masterworks, and so on. What does Warframe have right now? Well, newer players might find enjoyment in farming materials to craft weapons, but I'm a vet with millions of materials so I can craft almost any weapon day one, and any resource that's time limited I can easily get dozens of since I've every planet open and have farming setups. Raids are gone and despite DE constantly telling us "they'll return", we've yet to actually see any meaningful steps towards reintroducing them. Sorties are once a day, so they can't be farmed, and rivens are tied to Sorties so they can't be farmed (Unless you want to count Archwings, Sentinels, and other garbage rivens tied to Endless missions, but even those are timed, so you can't constantly farm the currency to buy them). Eidolons are timed events so if they're down you have to wait until they show up again, and even if you're in time to hunt them, you have a limited amount of time to farm them. The whole "We want players to take a break from our game so they avoid burnout" means literally nothing when not only combined with the absurd amounts of grind required, but the lack of any real endgame content that drives players back to the game. Great, we got freeroam, but when there's nothing to do that keeps us there, what's the point? And when "big releases" like Fortuna only happen once, maybe twice year, whose to say something else hasn't come out by then? The next big Switch game might come out that draws my attention away, or the next big expansion for WoW might come out and draw my attention away. When other big releases get released, what is there that DE has to offer that makes me say "You know, I haven't played Warframe in awhile, maybe I should pick it up again"? DE has yet to release anything like that. When PoE came out, people played it for like a month, then quit. Kuva farming is literally the only thing in this game that is continuous farming, and it's only continuous farming because new weapons get released. But if the rivens are so devalued, where's the incentive to farm?

 

As for locking in stats, I personally would've liked rivens to have never been a thing and instead we got augments, like what the Penta has with the Napalm and Tether Grenades. Since it's too late for that, next best thing is like you said, put more Kuva in to get a roll you want. Or do a Prestige system, after 100 rolls, you can reset the rolls to 1, 1, and so on, to select a stat you want and have an increased chance of getting that stat with each roll.

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