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ThumpumGood

Arbitration RNG

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Im not talking about loot. Im talking about Missions. While I get that you cant have Excavation as often as the rest, Having 6 Survivals in a row is getting boring. Cant the RNG mix it up a little better? Or can we just 'Night Wave' The missions so that we can choose what we are in the mood for and put a full day/week in the line up and when you've done them all, you're done? Im getting to the point where Im not even wanting to do other survivals any more because the repetition is driving me insane. Im at what everyone calls endgame.  NMR27, only 4  weapons left to get (all locked by something) only 15 mods to get(excluding Rivens) and Kinda enjoying being able to do whatever Im in the mood for. And right now, that's getting Aura Forma and Archgun Rivens. But the mission set up... Wow. BORING! Cant something be done to get it a little less of the same thing all of the time?

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The problem is that they took the simplest approach to selecting arbitration missions.  A month or two ago someone actually logged the arbitrations over a 7 day period, and the selected missions matched pretty well against the list of actual endless missions on the star map.  This is because instead of picking a random mission type, random node, and random faction, they just threw all the existing endless missions onto a list and picked from that.  The result is that survival and defense far out weigh others, and salvage practically never shows up at all.  Personally I didn't even know salvage was a possibility, and in the week of data gathered it only appeared once.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

The problem is that they took the simplest approach to selecting arbitration missions.  A month or two ago someone actually logged the arbitrations over a 7 day period, and the selected missions matched pretty well against the list of actual endless missions on the star map.  This is because instead of picking a random mission type, random node, and random faction, they just threw all the existing endless missions onto a list and picked from that.  The result is that survival and defense far out weigh others, and salvage practically never shows up at all.  Personally I didn't even know salvage was a possibility, and in the week of data gathered it only appeared once.

I would like to see it be a switch up. Survival, defense, survival, Defection, Survival, etc going thru all of them without there being a long line of the same thing.

 

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They should let you choose.... 

Which would be pointless since people would choose excavation anyway.

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5 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

I would like to see it be a switch up. Survival, defense, survival, Defection, Survival, etc going thru all of them without there being a long line of the same thing.

 

An interesting solution would be to use the method modern Tetris games use for their piece selection.  If you don't know, modern implementations of Tetris do not use fully randomized pieces for the most part.  Instead pieces come in "bags."  Each bag contains one of every piece.  The game picks pieces from the bag until it's empty, and then refills the bag with one of each piece again.  The result is that you can guarantee that every piece will show up within 13 pieces from now in a worst case scenario.  6 to empty the current bag, and 7 more for the next bag.

So with this, Warframe could guarantee that the mission type you want will appear within the next 11 hours.  Unless I'm spacing out, and there are more than 6 endless types, and I'm forgetting one.

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i find it quite nice to have survival arbitrations (excavation is something i avoid due its a pain unless you got a frost, gara o limbo with you. as long as you have a group that have modded things properly its quite a breeze (aside from corpus that tend to be quite nasty on high levels)

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Deflection is the mode I avoid. In that it just a mess with arbitration. The survivors die too quick, can't keep their health high, they bugged out, and those power cells hardly ever spawn.

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Less rng is still rng and people would both still miss the runs they want to do and only prioritize the types they want. Same thing with letting us just choose the mission type; people just run the same type over and over.

But if we could choose then maybe people would realize how brain dead Defection can be. The mode can be done infinitely without so much as picking up a weapon with the right builds.

 

Really between all the gripes people have with Arbitrations I'd say the best course of action would be to make it its own mission type that either offers some new endless format or somehow merges most/all endless elements.

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Im not asking for specific types... Im asking for at least SOME randomness so that we dont get 6 Survivals in a row like I've FREQUENTLY seen

 

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On 2019-07-05 at 11:39 PM, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

... A month or two ago someone actually logged the arbitrations over a 7 day period, and the selected missions matched pretty well against the list of actual endless missions on the star map. ...

Yeah, that was me, see here:

Spoiler

 

And here's the feedback thread I made after that:

Spoiler

 

 

@OP:

The feedback thread is about having a better balance between mission types and factions, but I agree with this, too. It should not just be completely random.

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On 2019-07-07 at 7:46 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

rng is rng and i think it fits with the theme as the way it chooses missions is quite arbitrary

The RNG should exclude the mission that just ended. That way there isnt a long stretch of the same mission type.

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True RNG allows for this to happen, what you're looking for is biased RNG which doesn't choose the previously chosen mission. But at the same time what that then can do is cause the RNG to choose Defense, Survival, Defense, Survival over and over and over again and not ever get to anything else you want in that exact same time frame that you're looking at.

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On 2019-07-11 at 12:51 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

True RNG allows for this to happen, what you're looking for is biased RNG which doesn't choose the previously chosen mission. But at the same time what that then can do is cause the RNG to choose Defense, Survival, Defense, Survival over and over and over again and not ever get to anything else you want in that exact same time frame that you're looking at.

Semantics. I've done RNG scripts and had to modify them to keep them from running the same thing over and over.  Granted it was for a NWN1 server but we had food animals that people would camp farm. To make it so that they couldnt store too much and make the whole system pointless, the spawn types had to be randomized, the number of spawns had to be randomized and the frequency had to be randomized. And it did the same thing til we put in an exclusion of the previous spawn. Still had some frequencies we didnt like but it was the best we could do with the simplistic set up that was NWN1.

 

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7 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

Still had some frequencies we didnt like but it was the best we could do with the simplistic set up that was NWN1

So, in that same sense, what stops even your system from causing the RNG on our system from going, saaaaay... Survival, Defense, Interception, Defection, Salvage, Defense, Defection, Survival, Interception, Salvage, Survival, Defection, Defense, Incerception, Salvage, Survival. Not once in the 16 hour period doing what you actually prefer out of this; Excavation.

Even under that system, there are enough types that the odds of not getting the mission type you want in the time period you're playing is still surprisingly high. It also means that if an Excavation was there the previous hour, you could then go two or three hours without it, which is longer than about 70% of the player base's standard playing time per day.

I know that RNG being 'true' RNG doesn't seem to help, but this could actually be the better system. Just consider the thought, as it were, I'm not saying it's de-facto the best, just that it could be better.

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I have a simple solution to that, give us more options. Instead of only 1 mission each hour how about a selection of 3 different missions each hour. Diversity is important, and the waiting game plus the RNG is not fun at all.

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On 2019-07-05 at 4:50 PM, Lutesque said:

They should let you choose.... 

Which would be pointless since people would choose excavation anyway.

I'd personally pick survival. Yeah it's slower, but it's pretty interesting to see when each frame hits a wall. I miss finding people that'd go 2+ hours in stuff.

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12 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

what you actually prefer out of this; Excavation.

 

What I prefer isnt in the equation. Preventing 8 survivals in a row is. several survivals in a row is BORING. I'll do one because that's better than NOT doing an Arbitration. But I've see 6 in a row and Im just not going to put myself thru that kind of torture. Yes I prefer Excavation because time/reward is VERY high. I also understand that there are less than 10 archguns and would only take a few days to get all of the rivens if it were all excavation all the time. And that's not something that DE is gonna let happen.

At MR27, the only things I dont have are 4 mods, 4 weapons and Rivens on every gun Im keeping. Im nearly complete with every focus. Keeping myself from getting bored is the idea here. Not running myself completely out of things to do.

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I think they'll be adding Disruption to Arbies. It was mentioned. I'm really pumped about this because i love the game mode and the tileset. Fighting Demolysts at lvl 200 will be fun.

Other than that, I like Survivals and Interceptions most. Defense are surprisingly good with a Speedva.

Defection is a hard pass. Excavations are a pain without certain frames so I generally don't bother.

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11 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

Preventing 8 survivals in a row is. several survivals in a row is BORING.

Ah, see, here's the problem with that statement; it's entirely subjective.

You can bet your butt that your proposal is actually offending a certain portion of the player base who literally want survivals over and over. One man's torture is another man's kink.

Now, I happen to agree with you, but the point stands there.

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On 2019-07-13 at 2:42 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

So, in that same sense, what stops even your system from causing the RNG on our system from going, saaaaay... Survival, Defense, Interception, Defection, Salvage, Defense, Defection, Survival, Interception, Salvage, Survival, Defection, Defense, Incerception, Salvage, Survival. Not once in the 16 hour period doing what you actually prefer out of this; Excavation.

Even under that system, there are enough types that the odds of not getting the mission type you want in the time period you're playing is still surprisingly high. It also means that if an Excavation was there the previous hour, you could then go two or three hours without it, which is longer than about 70% of the player base's standard playing time per day.

I know that RNG being 'true' RNG doesn't seem to help, but this could actually be the better system. Just consider the thought, as it were, I'm not saying it's de-facto the best, just that it could be better.

You missed the point. What I prefer isnt the issue. I would be bored with nothing but Excavations. The point is to prevent the same thing every time. Not worried about stopping the rarity of excavation. This isnt a case of *I WANT THIS AND I WANT IT NOW!* It's a case of ... Survival? Again? and again and again and again? Even if the RNG were to put up an excav once in a week, it would still be better than having 8 of the same thing in a row. I get than enough when I farm new items.

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