Pre Rework Wukong Mains feedback on his Rework.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, BlachWolf said:

I didnt know about that part, but yeah he's still not comparable to the passive god mode that wukong used to have, since even 18 charges isnt much.

Agreed. Although Revenant does have the benefit of theoretically never needing to actually recast Mesmer Skin due to Reave.

Oldkong though... only threat to him was energy drain/ability deactivation which could be avoided.

Edited July 7, 2019 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

5 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

It never was.

Im tempted to talk about how cloudwalker was a drain ability just to see how you reply to it xD

[DeMonkey]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Im tempted to talk about how cloudwalker was a drain ability just to see how you reply to it xD

I'd reply in affirmation. It was a drain ability, but it used distance instead of time to determine drain making it unique. It's primary limitation however was it's duration.

[Sikelh]

On 2019-07-07 at 7:26 PM, DeMonkey said:

I'd reply in affirmation. It was a drain ability, but it used distance instead of time to determine drain making it unique. It's primary limitation however was it's duration.

Not much of a limitation as it was so long that alot of people apparently THOUGHT it was infact channeled. 

And oldkong did infact have to pay attention to olddefy. The heal it restored each time while the ability remained active became less and less. You had to turn it off once in awhile or you'd just suddenly end up dead. It also ate up a pretty significant chunk of energy each time making rage basically required. You actually had to make sure to balance your energy consumption due to other abilties and how much energy you regen to make sure you don't run yourself out and deactivate olddefy. Not saying this was hard to do just that you had to do it.

 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Sikelh said:

Not much of a limitation as it was so long that alot of people apparently THOUGHT it was infact channeled. 

Genuinely kinda scary, Oldkong disappears and within a couple of weeks people have forgotten how he worked.

1 minute ago, Sikelh said:

You had to turn it off once in awhile or you'd just suddenly end up dead.

I also have to eat once in awhile else I end up dead, that doesn't mean it requires much in the way of attention. 

Yeah, energy could be a problem depending on the build. But realistically we're all competent enough at making builds for it to never really be a problem unless you deliberately gimp the build.

4 minutes ago, Sikelh said:

You actually had to make sure to balance your energy consumption due to other abilties

What other abilities? Oldkong was predominantly only used for Defy, the energy expended by most players on his other abilities was insignificant.

[Atsia]

On 2019-07-06 at 6:24 PM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Personally I hate his rework, it fails to encompass what comes to mind as a Sun Wukong Fan. 

From what I've seen in your other posts, you've just had some unrealistic expectations in what would happen in any rework.

On topic, Newkong is absolutely great. Cloudwalker is great to use, the come is powerful (though still from AI problems, not unexpectedly), and Defy is so much less of a snorefest of an ability. It's a mix of what Wukong players wanted and nice changes.

[Teridax68]

ITT a lot of people seem to be claiming long-standing Wukong main status despite not knowing the fundamentals of how his old kit worked, all for the purpose of bashing his demonstrably successful rework for not making him the literal most overpowered thing to exist in the universe (because clearly, basing a frame off of a cultural legend means throwing balance and good design out the window just to slavishly follow centuries-old stories and folk tales to the letter). I'm not a Wukong main, but it did not take much time playing either his old kit or his new to feel the difference: when I leveled up Oldkong, I remember just toggling Defy on and doing nothing else with his kit, because Defy was the only thing worth spending Energy on. Upon giving him a try post-rework, I found a use for all of his abilities, and each of them felt fun to use. Is he the literal best frame in the game? No. Is he perfect? No, there's likely some improvements to be made to Defy and to his Iron Staff combos. Was he nerfed? Who cares, probably not though. Is he more fun to play than he used to be? Absolutely, I'd say.

[MJ12]

On 2019-07-06 at 12:26 PM, DeMonkey said:

Much better. Absolutely still needs some tweaks but this is great.

Sure, he's not as powerful as he is in the stories, but I don't want to be as powerful as Sun Wukong in the stories. That would get old fast.

New Wukong Rework: Lore Wukong

Passive: Monkey Leap Technique-your bullet-jump is so powerful it literally can leap you into random missions, where you can proceed to style on the enemies and ruin other people's fun.

Second Passive: I'm Like, Immortal Five Times Over, Y'all-Wukong has four passive benefits which are always on:

• 100% damage resistance
• Regenerates 100% of health per second
• Immune to all CC and negative effects
• Health, shields, and armor all scale with current enemy level
• If you somehow manage to kill yourself despite all that you have infinite revives

First Power: Ruyi Jingu Bang-look, it just instantly clears the room around you with every swing.

Second Power: Clone-it's a clone that uses the Ruyi Jingu Bang and runs around the map with unlimited range, killing everyone in it. You can make infinite numbers of clones because why the hell not. And they're immune to nullifiers because also, why the hell not?

Third Power: It's Magic I Ain't Gotta Explain S**t-win the mission.

Fourth Power: Bro You Just Won Warframe-win Warframe. Yes, you heard me right, win Warframe forever.

Edited July 10, 2019 by MJ12

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

New Wukong Rework: Lore Wukong

Passive: Monkey Leap Technique-your bullet-jump is so powerful it literally can leap you into random missions, where you can proceed to style on the enemies and ruin other people's fun.

Second Passive: I'm Like, Immortal Five Times Over, Y'all-Wukong has four passive benefits which are always on:

• 100% damage resistance
• Regenerates 100% of health per second
• Immune to all CC and negative effects
• Health, shields, and armor all scale with current enemy level
• If you somehow manage to kill yourself despite all that you have infinite revives

First Power: Ruyi Jingu Bang-look, it just instantly clears the room around you with every swing.

Second Power: Clone-it's a clone that uses the Ruyi Jingu Bang and runs around the map with unlimited range, killing everyone in it. You can make infinite numbers of clones because why the hell not. And they're immune to nullifiers because also, why the hell not?

Third Power: It's Magic I Ain't Gotta Explain S**t-win the mission.

Fourth Power: Bro You Just Won Warframe-win Warframe. Yes, you heard me right, win Warframe forever.

I'll take 5!

[MJ12]

I think the one main quibble I have with the Wukong rework is just that Defy should be a little more interactive. It's kind of like Absorb in that it's fundamentally passive and keeps you from doing things when active. Maybe how it should work would kind of be like this:

1. Wukong becomes temporarily invulnerable and taunts everyone to attack him. Wukong himself can still parkour and shoot and aim normally.

2. When the invincibility phase ends, Wukong creates a short-lived clone who sweeps the room with his staff, dealing damage to enemies based on the damage absorbed (plus maybe the base damage from a single staff strike, as a 'consolation prize' if you screw up your timing).

3. Wukong keeps the armor buff, but cannot recast Defy while the armor buff is up.

This means that negative-duration modding turns Defy into a shorter-cooldown panic-button that lets you get just enough time to heal up or react to a threat, and positive-duration Defy is somewhat better than it is now, without creating the undesirable state of 'literally permanently immortal.'

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 21 heures, DeMonkey a dit :

But realistically we're all competent enough at making builds for it to never really be a problem unless you deliberately gimp the build.

Based on my experience in these forums, you are severely overestimating the ability people have to understand basic concepts

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

Based on my experience in these forums, you are severely overestimating the ability people have to understand basic concepts

Realistically we should all be competent enough. 

[Autongnosis]

à l’instant, DeMonkey a dit :

Realistically we should all be competent enough. 

That's better hahahahaha

 

Tbh as far as feeling for the new vs old wukong, i switched from a whatever I'll throw a few random mods for power strenght, health and rage to a proper build. I'd say wukong lost his passive immortality but gained a kit, i'd rate that as a positive. 

[Sikelh]

On 2019-07-09 at 8:55 PM, DeMonkey said:

Genuinely kinda scary, Oldkong disappears and within a couple of weeks people have forgotten how he worked.

I also have to eat once in awhile else I end up dead, that doesn't mean it requires much in the way of attention. 

Yeah, energy could be a problem depending on the build. But realistically we're all competent enough at making builds for it to never really be a problem unless you deliberately gimp the build.

What other abilities? Oldkong was predominantly only used for Defy, the energy expended by most players on his other abilities was insignificant.

1. Well according to you people only used defy anyway. It's not like iron jab knocked enemies down or the cloud had a stun on exit right? Iron Fury did and still suffers the same problems as all exalteds though.

2.I did also say it wasn't hard to do didn't I? 

3.Because all players start off having access to all the mods needed for every build right? Not to mention if a frames gimmick is "I don't die so good" like a frame based on an immortal should be then yeah the related ability shouldn't be hard to manage. When I play Rhino Ironskin in practice does the exact same thing as olddefy did(making you functionally immortal) and I generally have to recast it about as often or even less if I play well. Or are we saying that should go too?

4.See 1

 

Either way I said earlier that I liked most of the rework as a whole. Just that I think parts of it need tweaking. Like a better way to select what weapon the clone will use. Some way to keep him from switching every time I do and only when I want him to because even the best AI is still AI.

The cloud changes are mostly golden. Just wish it was either channeled or at least had a considerably longer duration like it used to in order to make it better as a travelling ability. Wouldnt really break it since when used for the healing the duration now is plenty to fully heal. Would just be a quality of life thing. 

 Without olddefy and with the passive being it's replacement it needs to be tweaked with some kinda mechanic that recharges it at a reasonable rate. Whether by kills, hits, damage done, or time. 3 in one mission is fine in short runs but I rather like long missions and for abilities like this to keep them in mind.

 

[DeMonkey]

2 hours ago, Sikelh said:

1. Well according to you people only used defy anyway. It's not like iron jab knocked enemies down or the cloud had a stun on exit right? Iron Fury did and still suffers the same problems as all exalteds though.

2.I did also say it wasn't hard to do didn't I? 

3.Because all players start off having access to all the mods needed for every build right? Not to mention if a frames gimmick is "I don't die so good" like a frame based on an immortal should be then yeah the related ability shouldn't be hard to manage. When I play Rhino Ironskin in practice does the exact same thing as olddefy did(making you functionally immortal) and I generally have to recast it about as often or even less if I play well. Or are we saying that should go too?

I genuinely don't know what argument you're pushing here, or why you seem to have taken my response so personally.

[ConsumerJTC]

The only gripe I have with the rework is that he still doesn't have a heavy attack on his iron staff, which would easily have been iron jab. Quite uncomfortable to not be able to chain combos and end with a satisfying finishing blow.

Oh yes and Wukong is surprisingly good now, like a toolbox of frames that you can use anywhere.

[Sikelh]

18 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I genuinely don't know what argument you're pushing here, or why you seem to have taken my response so personally.

No argument  and nothing taken personally. You responded to something I said. I responded to that. That is how conversation works.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Sikelh