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Descent-of-Damocles

Riven Enthusiasts, Time to stop the nerfs!

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Posted (edited)

Most of what your saying is invalid because you were made well aware they were going to change from the get go. How many times to people like you need to be told that you are not entitled to keep your rivens exactly as they were at the most powerful state you had them? The system is just a bonus and not needed for any content in the game, something to keep you busy and if you choose to participate you need to accept the reality that your doing it knowing dispositions are going to change. What is so hard to understand here people this is not rocket science, Even by just logging into the game you agree that DE can change anything in the game they want. Sure they are careful with what they do as to keep mostly good PR so they wont do anything to drastic but riven changes are anything but drastic. Take a deep breath and smell the Lunar Pitchers so you can come to terms with what you agree to just by playing the game and stop making threads like this, All it does is make you look like a goofy goober...

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander
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1 hour ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

If there was more to spread around, I would.

But many are hording it for Rivens that they know are going to get nerfed, from popularity.

Lots of things are dropping like a rock in price, and everyone's been more stingy with platinum in the trade chats.

(goes off to beg elsewhere)

 

That's just capitalism. Well semi since DE ultimately still has control in the end and don't think they're not playing the same system. I mean Gram Prime is pretty obvious. Double to DPS of Galatine Prime w/o a Riven yet also high Disp? That's bait right there. In the end. DE is the one who's pushed all the plat towards Rivens.

In a better economic game new players would be able to sell trade items or similar to Veterans because it's outside their play area but in Warframe you pretty much only need one of everything so that plat just lingers at the top which is made worse by the fact there's no veteran content in the game anyways. I'm a 6 year player who plays all the same maps and missions as a 3 month player the only difference is I have the luxury to waste time doing unrewarding content like Endurance runs.

...after all how else am I gunna use all these Arcanes, Primed mods and Rivens.

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4 hours ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

Hopefully it stops people from spending stupid amounts of platinum on a single riven.

All that platinum amassing in people's inventory not being circulated, but rather horded for even more expensive riven trades keeps that platinum out of the hands of smaller players trying to get slots. IMO.

 

Spread the wealth!

Not quite correct. For example, few days ago I saw a mr9 selling a CC CD Rubico for 2k. He got luck with the unveiling and then rolled it with the kuva from nightwave, got lucky again. That 2k plat should be able to carry him a long way into end game. 

If there is a healthy riven market new players also gets benefited from it. I personally know couple of mr11-14 who farms kuva all day, rolls rivens and sell them for some plat. It's a high effort high reward plat farming strategy.

If we stop caring for rivens at all, that kitgun riven a new player selling now for 800p would get down to 80p.

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8 hours ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

Hopefully it stops people from spending stupid amounts of platinum on a single riven.

You'd have an easier time telling the sun to turn off.

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On 2019-07-06 at 8:42 PM, kgabor said:

They could as well just disable snipers as usable weapons from Eidolon missions instead of pulling a Trinity 2.0 and slowly nerfing them/the meta to near uselessness only to forget them for years.

Some of us actually like these weapons and don't just use them as statsticks.

A better solution would be a damage cap per hit for Eidolons. Maybe require 3 shots per limb minimum or something.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-07 at 1:04 AM, Teliko_Freedman said:

Hopefully it stops people from spending stupid amounts of platinum on a single riven.

All that platinum amassing in people's inventory not being circulated, but rather horded for even more expensive riven trades keeps that platinum out of the hands of smaller players trying to get slots. IMO.

 

Spread the wealth!

With nerf or without nerfs, there's nothing people with tons of plats could possibly want from 'smaller' players, I'm having to hold myself here not to use any adjectives apart from how naive, to say the least, your line of thought is.

 

Edited by (PS4)cdzbrbr
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3 hours ago, Bioness said:

A better solution would be a damage cap per hit for Eidolons. Maybe require 3 shots per limb minimum or something.

Each Synovia already requires more than a full mag of shots from Rubico Prime of most players. Only Rivens can make the difference. 

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Le 07/07/2019 à 02:52, Descent-of-Damocles a dit :

Now why is this harmful to the community?

  1. Spent thousands of platinum on that riven? Should have purchased the primed elemental mod instead.
  2. You spent thousands of hours kuva farming for the perfect roll, and now it's irrelevant? Well done.
  3. Your snipers, shotguns and weapons no longer work or feel the same because fire rate, recoil, magazine and IPS are stats you can roll? Get used to the new feel or dont use the riven.
  4. The stug is 1.5 disposition? Better get that 300% critical chance and 150% status chance to make that 5% critical chance go to 20% and 0% status chance go to... 0%? Nvm dont use high dispo rivens for bad weapons.
  5. Your tiberon got nerfed? Better spend forma, plat, and time to get a new replacement gun. And btw, you're going to have to buy a COMPLETELY NEW RIVEN or ROLL YOUR OWN. That's either going to be a couple hundred dollars, or a few hundred hours, your call.
  6. You used to get 100% status on a shotgun for corrosive? Now you'll have to deal with all 4 dual stats so you dilute corrosive with blast, and blast will prone enemies. GL
  7. Vectis prime no longer able to get 1 magazine size? Use depleted reload, it's not like it takes up a slot or anything.
  8. Rubico prime, lanka, and kitguns are killing eidolons? Lets make that a little harder now, (as if chroma nerf wasnt enough. Mirage nerf is next btw, since someone found a way to use mirage as OG chroma and can 1 shot eidolons again).

1. Do not think that DE is responsible if players are spending that much plat on mods, blame players here.

2. Same as above, if you're spending your life farming kuva and are looking for godrolls for any reasons, blame players only. They're creating their own hell, and now they're complaining...

3. Snipers or shotguns are perfectly working, if you can live your life because you just lost a few bullets, i feel really bad for you. And FyI, this weapons did not need rivens in the first place.

4. High dispo is what precisely helps bad weapons to compete, We wouldn't see that kind of nerfs if new prime weapons weren't keeping their already high dispo - DE is definitely responsible of that, overpowered weapons with 1.5 dispo should never happen and at some point i'm wondering if DE does not use that to help with the hype around every new prime release (power creep). Anyway this point is exactly why they're nerfing rivens too, players are compensating with overpowered weapons and are all using the same weapons too, so nerf is real. If they were using Synapse, Tiberon prime wouldn't have been nerfed (for my part i'm still using my good old synapse - blame the sheeps).

5. You can't play without a riven ? You have way more issues than riven nerfs only.

6. Half of my shotguns don't have 100% status and they still shred everything, don't think that this 100% status hype stuff is that mandatory.

7. Wow, that's what mods are for, deal with it. Or just play with 2 bullets as intended, i know it hurts but everything will be fine, don't worry !

8. Killing Eidolon has never been hard, and it's even easier since Rubico prime is a thing - no one needs rivens to do that anyway but there's at least one thing that could be seriously discussed - Nerfing for popularity only is weird when content is made to be achieved with sniper rifles only - So DE is making sniper rifles popular by themselves, which is definitely wrong. I wish i could hunt Eidolons with melee weapons or a bow, but for now we don't have much choice.

Sure riven dispo should be looked at but the only thing i read here is some lament full of frustration from someone who's spending way too much time farming kuva and not much playing the game, or perhaps you should take a break if Warframe is only about getting 4k plat rivens only - which would be really sad, cause complaining about sniper rifles not working anymore is really laughable (some other things too. 😕 ).

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15 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

1. Do not think that DE is responsible if players are spending that much plat on mods, blame players here.

2. Same as above, if you're spending your life farming kuva and are looking for godrolls for any reasons, blame players only. They're creating their own hell, and now they're complaining...

3. Snipers or shotguns are perfectly working, if you can live your life because you just lost a few bullets, i feel really bad for you. And FyI, this weapons did not need rivens in the first place.

4. High dispo is what precisely helps bad weapons to compete, We wouldn't see that kind of nerfs if new prime weapons weren't keeping their already high dispo - DE is definitely responsible of that, overpowered weapons with 1.5 dispo should never happen and at some point i'm wondering if DE does not use that to help with the hype around every new prime release (power creep). Anyway this point is exactly why they're nerfing rivens too, players are compensating with overpowered weapons and are all using the same weapons too, so nerf is real. If they were using Synapse, Tiberon prime wouldn't have been nerfed (for my part i'm still using my good old synapse - blame the sheeps).

5. You can't play without a riven ? You have way more issues than riven nerfs only.

6. Half of my shotguns don't have 100% status and they still shred everything, don't think that this 100% status hype stuff is that mandatory.

7. Wow, that's what mods are for, deal with it. Or just play with 2 bullets as intended, i know it hurts but everything will be fine, don't worry !

8. Killing Eidolon has never been hard, and it's even easier since Rubico prime is a thing - no one needs rivens to do that anyway but there's at least one thing that could be seriously discussed - Nerfing for popularity only is weird when content is made to be achieved with sniper rifles only - So DE is making sniper rifles popular by themselves, which is definitely wrong. I wish i could hunt Eidolons with melee weapons or a bow, but for now we don't have much choice.

Sure riven dispo should be looked at but the only thing i read here is some lament full of frustration from someone who's spending way too much time farming kuva and not much playing the game, or perhaps you should take a break if Warframe is only about getting 4k plat rivens only - which would be really sad, cause complaining about sniper rifles not working anymore is really laughable (some other things too. 😕 ).

Last I checked, players didn't make the system for creation of "their own personal hell". Indeed, DE suggested that rolling a riven was a "journey towards discovery and personal progression". While it is certainly true that DE doesn't have anything to do with riven prices nor seems to desire control over what players can spend or not over such things; making the results of those trades or in game acquisitions could be seen as equivalent to Google discontinuing live services for hardware they sold in gold faith. As for Eidolons, that largely depends on what warframe you are using and the weapons. If you are using Chroma with a charged up vex armor, your weapon choice and how long an Eidolon without shields and synovia is going to last isn't going to be very important but if you want to run the missions without what folk consider meta - or being carried by others - its preferable to have more progression than none at all.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-07 at 10:05 AM, BansheePrime said:

Better stop the buffs too. Better scrap Rivens entirely so we don't need these threads either.

Or just fix all the dispos into 1~1.5, and call it an endgame mods, while actually trying to balance the weapon!

Edited by Test-995
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First: Rivens were always intended to change disposition. Sure, DE dropped the ball for not changing them for so long, but it's great they're actually buffing/nerffing Rivens again. I still would prefer an actual buff to some weapons, but the Riven changes are a good idea in general. 

What makes me laugh is how people quickly brought up the Gorgon. I use the Gorgon, once my most used weapon. I eventually got a Riven for it and got a Prisma Gorgon and was super happy with it. 

Then the last set of Riven Changes happened and many people freaked out. No joke some of the responses were among the lines of "Supra Riven got nerfed? WHY NOT NERF GORGON ALSO? IT'S JUST AS GOOD." Wish it was the fringe group but many MANY people decided that their weapon certainly did not need a Riven nerf but the Gorgon, a weapon that clearly no one uses they mention should definitely be nerfed due to it having way to high of a disposition. Hell I remember a video where someone complained about the nerf to the Arca Plasmor Disposition, but then used a Gorgon to clear out some simulcrum enemies to 'prove that DE didn't know what they were doing.'

And so come around this patch and the Gorgon did get a nerf. I still use it, even with the recent nerf to the Disposition. It definitely impacted my DPS, but it's still shredding everything I see to smithereens. A few of my other favourite weapons have been hit also, like the Sicarus Prime. 

"Oh, so you're totally against the nerfing of these Rivens right?" Well no. It hurts to have your favourite weapons get hurt with the Riven changes. I mean at the moment for every weapon I like that gets nerfed, another weapon I enjoy gets buffed. I love the Synoid Gammacor, so seeing that Riven go up and up and up is amazing. My Quanta Vandal is also having fun. I generally like Beam Weapons.

But everyone knew what they signed up for with Rivens. Doubly so now that this is the THIRD time they've changed Rivens and they are going to change every 3 months. You can forgive those during the time when Rivens stopped being changed that perhaps Rivens won't be changed anymore. But now we're on our third set of changes and people should wise up now: These Riven changes are going to happen again and again and again. If you're worried that the Riven you're going to purchase literally thousands of platinum worth is suddenly going to become useless: Then don't buy those Rivens anymore. If a weapon is super popular: Then perhaps think that buying a Riven for that weapon may be an incredibly bad idea and don't purchase the Riven unless you REALLY like that weapon.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-06 at 5:52 PM, Descent-of-Damocles said:

What can we do to fix this? (Just any one of these will do)

TBH, none of these solutions address the problems posed, even when taken as a whole. Separate slots and capping doesn't prevent high-disposition weapons from being impacted by nerfs. Complaints I've seen regarding nerfs in particular tend to focus around those high-tier, high-dispo weapons. Meanwhile, though buffing really underpowered & underused weapons does help with percentage-based Riven stats (and should probably be done regardless to keep up with the modern ~15-30% crit / status avg., or whatever the exact numbers are), it's a different topic: if they were to get buffed, everything else said regarding snipers and the like remains a fact.

Personally, I think the disposition should just alter the probabilities of high-/low-stat rolls instead of setting hard upper / lower stat bounds. Maybe adjust the Kuva cost as well. Probably coupled with tweaks to those low-tier weapons, as mentioned prior (which, regardless of Riven debate, should happen so that they're up to par). No more nerfs of existing Rivens. Cheaper average prices for high-dispo Rivens (due to supply/demand). Greater acquisition capability (due to fewer, likely cheaper, rolls needed to get the "god roll" often desired). And it fits nicely with the popularity criteria: less popular weapons get more populous high-tier rolls.

It doesn't fix the sniper problem being suck in a horde shooter but that's just snipers. Maybe they could make those ricochet off like, an invisible force field behind a target to strike additional targets, and give semi-autos the shot counter.

Edited by Tyreaus

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probably stated already but i'd like to point out that the tiburon prime is very strong even w/o a riven.

 

same goes for aklex prime, sicaris prime, Vectis and Rubico prime, lanka and the kitguns.

most of these do extremely well on the star chart in just about every way.

 

eidelons and orb mothers are not good places to make a comparison as those are specific enemies and you literally can't find them anywhere but their designated zones.

most shotguns that can't hit 100% status have decent enough crit chance to make use of hunter munitions and can dish out enough dmg to make that practically as powerful as their 100% status kin. i'll reference the kohm(hybrid weapon) strun wraith and hek series for this. the corinth is another good example.

 

I'm honestly confused as to what you lot did before rivens were introduced, since you seem to think rivens are the only way to make any weapon powerful even though those weapons were still at the top of the food chain before rivens(aklex prime and it's single counterpart are still powerful side arms.)

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On 2019-07-08 at 10:46 PM, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

probably stated already but i'd like to point out that the tiburon prime is very strong even w/o a riven.

 

same goes for aklex prime, sicaris prime, Vectis and Rubico prime, lanka and the kitguns.

most of these do extremely well on the star chart in just about every way.

 

eidelons and orb mothers are not good places to make a comparison as those are specific enemies and you literally can't find them anywhere but their designated zones.

most shotguns that can't hit 100% status have decent enough crit chance to make use of hunter munitions and can dish out enough dmg to make that practically as powerful as their 100% status kin. i'll reference the kohm(hybrid weapon) strun wraith and hek series for this. the corinth is another good example.

 

I'm honestly confused as to what you lot did before rivens were introduced, since you seem to think rivens are the only way to make any weapon powerful even though those weapons were still at the top of the food chain before rivens(aklex prime and it's single counterpart are still powerful side arms.)

If you ask me, Tiberon is not that good. I use Soma as a baseline for trash, if it's worse than soma, it's trash. Tiberon Prime, is significantly better than Soma Prime, so I know what you mean. But If Soma fits at 5/10, then Tiberon is only at 7/10 in terms of power. We have weapons that come close to what Mesa's 4 can do. I also did the math, as the way things are now, maxed disposition Soma would eventually catchup to a rivenless tiberon, but a riven tiberon will still beat soma. The nerfs and buffs wont fix bad weapons.

As for star chart, star chart is too easy. I often use level 100 for a baseline, 3 of each Corrupted heavy gunner and bombards. If it clears them, then I use it. If there's a riven, I expect it to clear level 150 without running out of ammo. It's power creep, I admit, but do you remember the wolf of saturn six? Do you do those ridiculous sorties with grineer armor / elemental enhancements? Has stalker shown up in your kuva flood recenty? These are star chart edge cases, where that level 150 certification makes a difference.

As for the strun, kohm and hek series. The kohm will never get dispo changed. IMO DE made a bad decision, because Kohm value goes up relative to everything else. Strun like high disposition. I have a riven with SC and negative impact so I lose impact proccs and gain Corrosive without needing blast or any other elemental diluting the mixture. The result is a 1 shot armor strip strun, which wont be realized if the disposition drops low enough to reintroduce impact proccs, and the need to dilute my corrosive with other elements. Corinth is good, but it wont pass level 150 cert without hunter munitions and luck.

Before rivens, we had level 30-50 endgame. After rivens, we gained level 100-150 endgame. The reality is that things got harder over time, and so our weapons got stronger too. The power creep goes both ways. The problem we're highlighting today is how we're no longer catching up to content that's gotten too strong. The thumpers at high level are nearly impossible to kill, with their innate damage reduction, small hitboxes (2 always hidden from you) and armor to top it off, we need every advantage. We also use rivens to fix problems such as split chamber being useless 10% of the time it doesnt procc MS, and lack of methods to reach 100% critical chance reliably. I guess what Im saying is the topic isnt simple, but DE's riven dispo changes treats it as it is. If it does high damage, nerf. The nullifier bubble is a good example of why this is a bad model to work with. Soma can tear through that thing, and is super weak so it gets buffed. The vectis will have a hard time, since damage isn't considered when killing the bubble, but it gets nerfed because it does high damage, despite being impractical in star chart.

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On 2019-07-08 at 9:05 PM, KaijuKraid said:

First: Rivens were always intended to change disposition. Sure, DE dropped the ball for not changing them for so long, but it's great they're actually buffing/nerffing Rivens again. I still would prefer an actual buff to some weapons, but the Riven changes are a good idea in general. 

What makes me laugh is how people quickly brought up the Gorgon. I use the Gorgon, once my most used weapon. I eventually got a Riven for it and got a Prisma Gorgon and was super happy with it. 

Then the last set of Riven Changes happened and many people freaked out. No joke some of the responses were among the lines of "Supra Riven got nerfed? WHY NOT NERF GORGON ALSO? IT'S JUST AS GOOD." Wish it was the fringe group but many MANY people decided that their weapon certainly did not need a Riven nerf but the Gorgon, a weapon that clearly no one uses they mention should definitely be nerfed due to it having way to high of a disposition. Hell I remember a video where someone complained about the nerf to the Arca Plasmor Disposition, but then used a Gorgon to clear out some simulcrum enemies to 'prove that DE didn't know what they were doing.'

And so come around this patch and the Gorgon did get a nerf. I still use it, even with the recent nerf to the Disposition. It definitely impacted my DPS, but it's still shredding everything I see to smithereens. A few of my other favourite weapons have been hit also, like the Sicarus Prime. 

"Oh, so you're totally against the nerfing of these Rivens right?" Well no. It hurts to have your favourite weapons get hurt with the Riven changes. I mean at the moment for every weapon I like that gets nerfed, another weapon I enjoy gets buffed. I love the Synoid Gammacor, so seeing that Riven go up and up and up is amazing. My Quanta Vandal is also having fun. I generally like Beam Weapons.

But everyone knew what they signed up for with Rivens. Doubly so now that this is the THIRD time they've changed Rivens and they are going to change every 3 months. You can forgive those during the time when Rivens stopped being changed that perhaps Rivens won't be changed anymore. But now we're on our third set of changes and people should wise up now: These Riven changes are going to happen again and again and again. If you're worried that the Riven you're going to purchase literally thousands of platinum worth is suddenly going to become useless: Then don't buy those Rivens anymore. If a weapon is super popular: Then perhaps think that buying a Riven for that weapon may be an incredibly bad idea and don't purchase the Riven unless you REALLY like that weapon.

Here's my problem. At 0.5 dispo, a primed elemental boost of 165% on heat or toxin or cold is superior to the riven in 80-90% of cases. A maxed disposition on a trashy weapon like the stug would yield very little result. Often 50% of cases would never even reach an unriven modded meta weapon's performance.

Am I sad dispo's got nerfed? ATM only that my vectis's negative magazine no longer works. I've stopped buying rivens, but today I noticed the market has crashed a lot. The prices are lower than usual, and there are far less buyers than before. For some of my rivens, even at minimum disposition, they will continue to be a 10-20% boost. But some weapons like strun and vectis will break for me. My vectis is already untouched since the first wave of changes, just waiting for my strun to end up the same as well. Problem isn't just damage being affected by rivens, rivens can also affect characteristics and functionality. That's the part where I have real problems with.

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On 2019-07-08 at 5:53 PM, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

With nerf or without nerfs, there's nothing people with tons of plats could possibly want from 'smaller' players, I'm having to hold myself here not to use any adjectives apart from how naive, to say the least, your line of thought is.

 

Really? "nothing ......... from smaller players" Really?

When I was a "smaller" player I 1 rolled a rubico riven and got a groll (I have only even seen one rubico riven as good / better). You sure a player with tons of plat wouldn't have liked that riven from a "smaller" player?

Also, when I was a "smaller" player I also 5/6 rolled another rubico riven and got a very very good roll which I sold to a player with plenty of plat. Funny about that huh?

Good riven RNG can apply just as easily to a new "smaller" player as it can to a tons of plat player.

Have fun and may RNG be forever in your favor.

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On 2019-07-06 at 9:05 PM, Descent-of-Damocles said:

my 4th point was just that, bad weapons made usable by rivens are also getting nerfed. When was the last time someone used a gorgon in mission anyways?

 

Prisma Gorgon is not a bad weapon. It's actually pretty amazing! See for yourself:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Prisma_Gorgon

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Soma_Prime

Why the heck is Prisma Gorgon disposition 5? That can't be right...

Look, at a glance, it's only slightly worse than Soma Prime in that Soma Prime has a higher critical multiplier and a very slight chance to innately proc Slash by itself. But you'd be mostly relying on Hunter Munitions with Soma Prime just the same as Prisma Gorgon, right? Though that critical multiplier on Soma Prime looks more attractive, Prisma Gorgon is still doing nearly double the damage of Soma Prime! If I had to take a guess... hmmm... If Prisma Gorgon did 12 damage per bullet like Soma Prime and had a 4.6 critical multiplier, that would be worse than Prisma Gorgon as it is with 23.1 damage per bullet at the 2.3 critical multiplier. So, probably Prisma Gorgon is better than Soma Prime (gasp!)... Would have to factor in the 10% status chance on Soma Prime to really be thorough. Gorgon Wraith, on the other hand, is more so-so and Gorgon vanilla is downright terrible.

Just because players follow the advice/example of their friends, clan mates, streamers, youtube videos, blogs, guides, etc... or abide by aesthetics and consequently use largely the same set of weapons does not automatically mean that otherwise unpopular weapons are just bad. And Prisma Gorgon is one example of an unpopular weapon that is actually very good.

P.S. I don't see Soma Prime very often either. I see mostly the annoying Ignis Wraith!

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9 hours ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Here's my problem. At 0.5 dispo, a primed elemental boost of 165% on heat or toxin or cold is superior to the riven in 80-90% of cases. A maxed disposition on a trashy weapon like the stug would yield very little result. Often 50% of cases would never even reach an unriven modded meta weapon's performance.

Am I sad dispo's got nerfed? ATM only that my vectis's negative magazine no longer works. I've stopped buying rivens, but today I noticed the market has crashed a lot. The prices are lower than usual, and there are far less buyers than before. For some of my rivens, even at minimum disposition, they will continue to be a 10-20% boost. But some weapons like strun and vectis will break for me. My vectis is already untouched since the first wave of changes, just waiting for my strun to end up the same as well. Problem isn't just damage being affected by rivens, rivens can also affect characteristics and functionality. That's the part where I have real problems with.

I'm actually fine with the Market Crashing. I actually suspect that's WHY they've done nerfs like these and continue to do so. Take the Kohm for example. People considered it mandatory for a Riven and at some point the market for a 'mandatory Kohm Riven' was just insane. I have one of those 'Mandatory (Mara) Detron Rivens, which was awesome to unveil and roll admittingly. It's what got me to use the Detron and I do fully expect it to get nerfed at one point.

The price of Rubico (and Lanka at one point) Rivens was going through the roof as well. They were being considered pretty much mandatory also. It's also fair to nerf the Rubico Riven when the Rubico Prime so happened to exist and just be one of the best Snipers in the game, even before we take Riven Disposition into account.

But the thing is: On a weapon that has 0.5 Dispo, it's probably super good enough that it doesn't need a Riven at all to work. Let's take the Tigris (Prime), for example. Whether you get a Riven for it or not (and it's better with no riven admittingly as you've mentioned), this thing basically is a one shot killing machine. Buffing its disposition or making it a 1.0 disposition would put it completely over the edge and thus probably increase the price of Tigris Rivens. It'd probably even increase the price of Tigris Prime pieces also. 

Personal opinion also here: I don't think Rivens should completely change a way a weapon works. I can understand the upset when a Vectis Riven no longer puts you down to 1 Magazine, but I'm fine with it. I even own a Vectis Riven as well that is pretty good (+MS/+CC, -Reload) and it still murders pretty much everything in it's sight without fail. Though I will admit where I fall on the Shotgun Riven part.... but to me that means really the Kohm probably needs SC buff. 

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22 hours ago, (PS4)Deadmennwalking said:

Really? "nothing ......... from smaller players" Really?

When I was a "smaller" player I 1 rolled a rubico riven and got a groll (I have only even seen one rubico riven as good / better). You sure a player with tons of plat wouldn't have liked that riven from a "smaller" player?

Also, when I was a "smaller" player I also 5/6 rolled another rubico riven and got a very very good roll which I sold to a player with plenty of plat. Funny about that huh?

Good riven RNG can apply just as easily to a new "smaller" player as it can to a tons of plat player.

Have fun and may RNG be forever in your favor.

Exactly, the riven system is what has the potential to boost a new player progression by A LOT.

i didn't mean to belittle smaller players, it's just that the person i quoted went on the opposite direction of your reply and my line of thought, he was happy cause he thinks a nerf will benefit said players.

Like, welp, since now rubico is nerfed let me buy continuity from this mr 5, that's what he implied and what i confronted.

You're absolutely correct and that's why, imo, rivens should have a value a bit higher than 0.5 in their weakest dispostion.

From my calcs 0.65 is the sweet spot where a riven at its weakest isn't op but is good enough to be equipped even if not godly, which would, ultimately, help everyone, especially newer players looking to sell said rivens.

Best wishes to you too!

Edited by (PS4)cdzbrbr

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To me, the big riven dispo complaints boil down to three main points:

  • Gross overreaction. Your Riven got nerfed, it may have taken a few percentage points off a supplemental stat, or like 15 total damage from your base, and that's about it. The recent nerf to my Strad Riven took its modded auto fire from just above 100% to just below 100% -- which is sad, but it's not a huge deal as I still have like 97% CC. I have yet to see anyone showing proof that a nerf has hit their Riven so hard that they no longer use it. Not to say that hasn't happened, I just haven't seen anyone back their claims yet.
  • Misappropriation. I see everywhere people saying, "The Rubico got nerfed." We gotta make this distinction clear: the weapon did not get nerfed, your Riven did. The sniper itself is still a monster, and it dominates the game because of that fact. Your Riven-blessed Rubico is still going to be more powerful than others' Rubicos, and if it isn't then the mod isn't worth equipping. (And if it isn't why'd you spend so much on it, which leads to...)
  • Buyer's remorse. You invested way to much time and/or money into something that has been clearly stated to be not set in stone. Now that it's changed and you can't get your spent effort back, you're salty. Solution: stop doing that. Spending thousands of plat on a mod that isn't required for any content and is subject to change is kinda just asking for trouble, and you should understand what you're getting into by doing that. Be prepared for the same potential repercussions that have been happening for nearly a year now.

Sometimes game developers have to nerf things. It feels shirty, it's not something that's fun for anyone, but sometimes nerfs are needed to keep a game healthy. The alternative method to correcting imbalance is to buff literally everything else, which is in practice just the same as nerfing that one thing you didn't buff. 

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20 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

To me, the big riven dispo complaints boil down to three main points:

  • Gross overreaction. Your Riven got nerfed, it may have taken a few percentage points off a supplemental stat, or like 15 total damage from your base, and that's about it. The recent nerf to my Strad Riven took its modded auto fire from just above 100% to just below 100% -- which is sad, but it's not a huge deal as I still have like 97% CC. I have yet to see anyone showing proof that a nerf has hit their Riven so hard that they no longer use it. Not to say that hasn't happened, I just haven't seen anyone back their claims yet.
  • Misappropriation. I see everywhere people saying, "The Rubico got nerfed." We gotta make this distinction clear: the weapon did not get nerfed, your Riven did. The sniper itself is still a monster, and it dominates the game because of that fact. Your Riven-blessed Rubico is still going to be more powerful than others' Rubicos, and if it isn't then the mod isn't worth equipping. (And if it isn't why'd you spend so much on it, which leads to...)
  • Buyer's remorse. You invested way to much time and/or money into something that has been clearly stated to be not set in stone. Now that it's changed and you can't get your spent effort back, you're salty. Solution: stop doing that. Spending thousands of plat on a mod that isn't required for any content and is subject to change is kinda just asking for trouble, and you should understand what you're getting into by doing that. Be prepared for the same potential repercussions that have been happening for nearly a year now.

Sometimes game developers have to nerf things. It feels shirty, it's not something that's fun for anyone, but sometimes nerfs are needed to keep a game healthy. The alternative method to correcting imbalance is to buff literally everything else, which is in practice just the same as nerfing that one thing you didn't buff. 

There’s just one problem with this post. The developers don’t HAVE to nerf rivens. They simply choose to, and it feels like for almost no reason at times.

Take the Vectis for example from .8 -> .75 was that extra 5-10% of whatever stats my riven had THAT “OP” or so outrageously strong that it constituted a nerf of nearly no significance? It makes no sense AT ALL.

”But DE said, if the weapon is popular...”

I love snipers, run them constantly. I literally can count on 1 one hand the amount of players I’ve seen running a sniper outside of the plains. No one uses this weaponary in everyday missions. Yet it gets nerfed because Tricap is designed in such a way that using any other form of weapon is senile? What’s the fix here nerf the mods of the weapons most viable in these encounters or actually make more weapons viable against these enemies? These nerfs don’t balance anything. People are still going to take their dispo .0005 Rubico/Vectis/Lanka into a tricap because Eidolons are poorly designed. There’s still a massive imbalance here that obviously isn’t being corrected by nerfing the mods of a select few weapons. But just nerf them anyway right? 

The only weapons that really demand riven nerfs are newly Primed weapons with extremely high dispositions. Making them actually quite a bit stronger than they should be. Example: Akjagara Prime. I have a very nice riven for these dual pistols that took a VERY hard hit after the nerf. Paid 1.5K for it. I haven’t complained about it once because in this situation the nerf actually makes sense. 

 

But nerfing the Viper? or Embolist? or snipers that are outclassed in pretty much every mission type outside of Tricap? Literally pure idiocy.

The people who aren’t big on rivens literally defend DE for absolutely no other reason than “Hahaha u mad?”. While not even acknowledging that DE should go back and rebalance these weaker weapons properly rather than blame the rivens for the horrible design of some of these crappy weapons and meta-demanding mission types. I literally do not get it. This is a ******* PvE game.

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On 2019-07-09 at 11:11 PM, Descent-of-Damocles said:

If you ask me, Tiberon is not that good. I use Soma as a baseline for trash, if it's worse than soma, it's trash. Tiberon Prime, is significantly better than Soma Prime, so I know what you mean. But If Soma fits at 5/10, then Tiberon is only at 7/10 in terms of power. We have weapons that come close to what Mesa's 4 can do. I also did the math, as the way things are now, maxed disposition Soma would eventually catchup to a rivenless tiberon, but a riven tiberon will still beat soma. The nerfs and buffs wont fix bad weapons.

As for star chart, star chart is too easy. I often use level 100 for a baseline, 3 of each Corrupted heavy gunner and bombards. If it clears them, then I use it. If there's a riven, I expect it to clear level 150 without running out of ammo. It's power creep, I admit, but do you remember the wolf of saturn six? Do you do those ridiculous sorties with grineer armor / elemental enhancements? Has stalker shown up in your kuva flood recenty? These are star chart edge cases, where that level 150 certification makes a difference.

As for the strun, kohm and hek series. The kohm will never get dispo changed. IMO DE made a bad decision, because Kohm value goes up relative to everything else. Strun like high disposition. I have a riven with SC and negative impact so I lose impact proccs and gain Corrosive without needing blast or any other elemental diluting the mixture. The result is a 1 shot armor strip strun, which wont be realized if the disposition drops low enough to reintroduce impact proccs, and the need to dilute my corrosive with other elements. Corinth is good, but it wont pass level 150 cert without hunter munitions and luck.

Before rivens, we had level 30-50 endgame. After rivens, we gained level 100-150 endgame. The reality is that things got harder over time, and so our weapons got stronger too. The power creep goes both ways. The problem we're highlighting today is how we're no longer catching up to content that's gotten too strong. The thumpers at high level are nearly impossible to kill, with their innate damage reduction, small hitboxes (2 always hidden from you) and armor to top it off, we need every advantage. We also use rivens to fix problems such as split chamber being useless 10% of the time it doesnt procc MS, and lack of methods to reach 100% critical chance reliably. I guess what Im saying is the topic isnt simple, but DE's riven dispo changes treats it as it is. If it does high damage, nerf. The nullifier bubble is a good example of why this is a bad model to work with. Soma can tear through that thing, and is super weak so it gets buffed. The vectis will have a hard time, since damage isn't considered when killing the bubble, but it gets nerfed because it does high damage, despite being impractical in star chart.

i should point out that any decent crit gun that has full auto(Tiburon prime has a fire mode for this) can make liberal use of munition alongside viral to clean up shop on those same lvl 100+ targets. granted i can only spawn 125s, but that's not an enemy you'll face unless you go out of your way to do so(endurance runs mostly) which is why i brought up the star chart. if my weapon can kill the 125s in short order, than it's useful.

 

Cernos prime, tiburon prime, sybaris prime and a whole load of other weapons i enjoy can do this with ease(using munition and viral, at least. now...i admit two of those do have rivens, but can achieve similar results without. hence my point) so i'v never understood the decree of "my [insert power creep sniper here] is useless now!"

 

no, it isn't. my rubico prime w/o its riven can easily kill any eidalon with a chroma buff, so yours should accomplish this feat as well without the riven("you" as in the general group, not "you" personally.)

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Before any "damage 3.0" is done, imho one way to have every weapons used in "end-game" is that Rivens could give a native bonus damage based on NPC health, scaled with disposition (reaching around 50% for max disposition, 15% for min, and with specific computation when used with other mods such as acid shell)

 

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On 2019-07-12 at 9:56 AM, (XB1)Q 2 K O said:

What’s the fix here nerf the mods of the weapons most viable in these encounters or actually make more weapons viable against these enemies?

What do you suggest then? Keep in mind than "viable" doesn't really matter in Eidolon fights, "optimal" does. I can take the Latron against Teralysts and do the same thing as a Rubico, it just makes more sense to take the Rubico due to its insane burst damage (crit heavy shots that fit the window of Synovia vulnerability). Players don't avoid non-Sniper weapons because those weapons don't work against Eidolons, they avoid them because they are not better than Snipers for that purpose. To make the Latron competitive in this game mode, it'd have to pretty well become a Sniper. So how would you actually fix this problem?

On 2019-07-12 at 9:56 AM, (XB1)Q 2 K O said:

nerfing the Viper? or Embolist? or snipers that are outclassed in pretty much every mission type outside of Tricap? Literally pure idiocy.

If Snipers are never used outside of Eidolons (guess I'm an exception), and DE nerfs Sniper Rivens, maybe it's because they wanted to tone down Snipers' effects on Eidolons.

Regarding those pistols, yeah, some of them don't make sense to me. But I don't really think it's a big deal, so I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape about it. Which leads me to my next point...

On 2019-07-12 at 9:56 AM, (XB1)Q 2 K O said:

.8 -> .75 was that extra 5-10% of whatever stats my riven had THAT “OP” or so outrageously strong that it constituted a nerf of nearly no significance? It makes no sense AT ALL.

Okay, sure. The complaint I have, is that these "nerfs of nearly no significance" have players raging like toddlers who dropped their sippy cups. A few percents off a few mods and players are equating the change to being slapped in the face, claiming the developers are incompetent, calling them idiots, etc. I am not "defending DE" here. I disagree with some of the changes they make too. I am lamenting the fact that some people who play the game can't seem to act like grownups. Give feedback in a way that doesn't make you* sound like a Dance Mom whose child just got 4th place at competition. Can we not be mature adults about expressing discontent?

*the royal "you", not you personally

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