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(NSW)UltPumpkinPie

The Duviri Paradox

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I just wanted to add that the entire time, I couldn’t stop thinking of that nidus “phryke” deluxe skin. Especially the skin in the pack for the helminth charger, that plus the armor really resembled the horse in the trailer. I don’t know how lore works for deluxe skins, but I think it’s really interesting how this skin just kinda came out of nowhere a while ago, and now seems to match perfectly.

 

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I don't think the person you saw was you.... Point of fact I will not play it if it means having to adult my spacekid. I'll just let where ever that story happens be where the story of warframe ends for me. But I don't think that's you............

I actually kinda think it's The Stalker.

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A few concepts that have been on my mind.

Before the presentation Steve said something about durivi having to do with “connection.” Keep that in mind.

With railjack, we can now see further into similar situations undoubtably faced by the Zariman. The railjack utilizes a “void leap” to get around the solar system quickly. We see in the demonstration that apparently void storms can seriously mess with your void leaping. It’s very possible that this points to the zariman facing a very similar thing.

The next thing I thought about was the Sacrifice quest, and lua spy missions, which require you to “time travel” to solve puzzles. The void clearly messes with space and time and defies all laws of the universe. Since durivi seems to be a “void open world” of sorts, it makes sense that this place would be super weird. I think this strange fold in space might contain many answers to void related questions, and will probably have something to do with the new war, as sentients are weak to the void.

Going back to Steve's comment, It seems durivi will be connected to many different things within the game. Railjack, obviously, but perhaps this new area isn’t much of an area at all. Perhaps durivi will serve as some sort of hub world for time travel, allowing access to different versions of the solar system. Perhaps a multiverse is in the ballpark? Or maybe it’s the home of a new faction, one more consumed with the void than we, the Tenno, are. At the end of the trailer, an image fades in behind the text that reminds me of the concept art when we first heard of durivi. Whatever this being is, it’s strikingly “anti-orokin” it’s aesthetic is completely opposite of the orokin. They trade gold for brass, glistening white for dark, heavy metals. It reminds me of the nidus deluxe skin, as I mentioned in a previous post. While I seem to be getting off topic, since this plane of existence is much more corrupted by the voice than anything else we’ve seen, I believe it may hold the secret to Tenno victory in the New War. Something the sentients could not foresee.

 

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I don't think the Tenno are inherently ageless, and my primary reason for that we know Rell would have died from ageing. He transferred his consciousness into his Harrow so that he'd be able to seal away the Man in The Wall longer, since he'd been denied access to cryosleep and the dream, which is what we were awoken from at the culmination of The Second Dream. Meaning that Tenno do in fact age.

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59 minutes ago, Morrow said:

I don't think the Tenno are inherently ageless, and my primary reason for that we know Rell would have died from ageing. He transferred his consciousness into his Harrow so that he'd be able to seal away the Man in The Wall longer, since he'd been denied access to cryosleep and the dream, which is what we were awoken from at the culmination of The Second Dream. Meaning that Tenno do in fact age.

Multiple characters have in as many words described us as immortal. The kuva queen if memory serves specifically wanted our body to free her from the cycle she was trapped in. There's no end of children she could have used. She wanted a Tenno specifically for our ageless quality so she could stay young and powerful forever. 

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Just now, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Multiple characters have in as many words described us as immortal. The kuva queen if memory serves specifically wanted our body to free her from the cycle she was trapped in. There's no end of children she could have used. She wanted a Tenno specifically for our ageless quality so she could stay young and powerful forever. 

 

 

But the Dream is not widely know, to my knowledge the only ones who know are the Tenno, Lotus, the sentients, and possibly the Unum. The Queens wouldn't be well versed on the tenno, since they were societal outcasts due to their status as twins, so she wouldn't know that their "immortality" was derived fro cryogenics, all she knew/knows is that there are some relatively pristine orokin children running around, ripe for body-snatching.

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also, we were combatants in the old war, the old war was long, and while we entered towards the end, from the time we were rescued to the the time our power was discovered, to the time it was discovered we could use warframes, to the time it took us to master combat techniques and of the blade and the gun, become expert tacticians... To the time it took us to defeat the sentients, to the time it took us to destroy every last bit of the Orokin empire... Nah. We'd have been physically in our 30s at least by the time we entered sleep stasis. Possibly older. These things take time even in the rush of war, it took us time to gain these combat skills we use. I'm not going to split hairs here. There is no way. I'm saying this objectively. That we became combat effective on a level to destroy a sentient army as well as the orokin empire in less than 15 years. That's of constant, unending, training. The producers of the game can pretend whatever they want. These things take time. And guess what, at the end of 15 to 20 years of constant misery abuse and torture you're damned right they would want to destroy the Orokin.

The queen was one of the Orokin. She knew what we are better than we do. Even ignoring that, in game many years have past. I'm sorry but the survivors of the Orokin empire know damn well what they are talking about when they talk of us. 

Also. It is not at all subtly implied that the Stalker is a Tenno. A warframe with a human operator anyway. And he's been around since the war. It is BECAUSE he's been around since the war that he hates us. Because he was there. He saw what we did. What we were given the gift of forgetting. Is he a Tenno?.... He doesn't describe him self as one. He says he was a low guardian........ But there are implications. And he certainly looks like a warframe. Doesn't he?. He has walked the worlds through the ages, watching, waiting... 

DE knows that people feel connected to the operator.... It would be a mistake for them to break what most people under stand to be the reality just because they feel like it. Especially when so much has clearly indicated they are ageless beings because of the void corruption. Vor was also void corrupted, and even with half his body missing he's still hanging on fine.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you, and I don't think that it is in Warframe's best interest to force an identity change on players who feel attached to their current identity.

What I think DE means when they say "it's time to grow up"... I think they mean it's time for us to face what we did. And who better to show us than the stalker?

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I think it's a parallel universe where the Zariman never returned from the void.

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

also, we were combatants in the old war, the old war was long, and while we entered towards the end, from the time we were rescued to the the time our power was discovered, to the time it was discovered we could use warframes, to the time it took us to master combat techniques and of the blade and the gun, become expert tacticians... To the time it took us to defeat the sentients, to the time it took us to destroy every last bit of the Orokin empire... Nah. We'd have been physically in our 30s at least by the time we entered sleep stasis. Possibly older. These things take time even in the rush of war, it took us time to gain these combat skills we use. I'm not going to split hairs here. There is no way. I'm saying this objectively. That we became combat effective on a level to destroy a sentient army as well as the orokin empire in less than 15 years. That's of constant, unending, training. The producers of the game can pretend whatever they want. These things take time. And guess what, at the end of 15 to 20 years of constant misery abuse and torture you're damned right they would want to destroy the Orokin.

The queen was one of the Orokin. She knew what we are better than we do. Even ignoring that, in game many years have past. I'm sorry but the survivors of the Orokin empire know damn well what they are talking about when they talk of us. 

Also. It is not at all subtly implied that the Stalker is a Tenno. A warframe with a human operator anyway. And he's been around since the war. It is BECAUSE he's been around since the war that he hates us. Because he was there. He saw what we did. What we were given the gift of forgetting. Is he a Tenno?.... He doesn't describe him self as one. He says he was a low guardian........ But there are implications. And he certainly looks like a warframe. Doesn't he?. He has walked the worlds through the ages, watching, waiting... 

DE knows that people feel connected to the operator.... It would be a mistake for them to break what most people under stand to be the reality just because they feel like it. Especially when so much has clearly indicated they are ageless beings because of the void corruption. Vor was also void corrupted, and even with half his body missing he's still hanging on fine.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you, and I don't think that it is in Warframe's best interest to force an identity change on players who feel attached to their current identity.

What I think DE means when they say "it's time to grow up"... I think they mean it's time for us to face what we did. And who better to show us than the stalker?

 

 

I was under the impression that the Tenno were always in cryosleep for as long as they'd served the orokin.

As for Orokin survivors, the queens and ballas are the only ones we know of. The orokin are ancient enigmatic entities to their descendants, they have little to know understanding of anything that happened before and shortly after the Tenno's betrayal, so for them to have any idea of what the Tenno are besides the Warframes' puppet masters is unfounded.

Regarding the Stalker, I don't think he can be a Tenno, as during his conversation with Hunhow he expressed his frustration and confusion with how and warframe he killed would always be resurrected, and how he displayed what I can only describe as shock when he discovered what the Tenno truly were. If he is a Tenno, he is unaware of his nature, but an even more insidious reason for his longevity would be a similar procedure that Rell endured, or what.

And Vor is no longer a normal living being, as we can be sure that if our warframe had not saved us at the end of the The Second Dream, our operators would have been slain, but no matter how many times Vor is dispatched, he will always return. He's stated it himself, he is energy, and he cannot be destroyed.

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I want to know how he didn't break his arm using that Tigris. I mean, that's like the Galatine of Tenno guns.

As for the theory of the old war not happening yet, well... Plains of Eidolon ruins that idea. However, the clear idea that this is in a void'ed environment makes it a isolated possibility. Speaking of it being the void, this is what really opens up anything for speculation. The Dax honor server the Orokin, we kinda made ourselves enemies of the Orokin by betrayal, and I think Mr. Conclave is a very unique exception in loyalties if you wanna reference his relation to us (Tenno).

As for the ghosting going on, well, it's the void, it's not the first time we've had past events happening in the void (Margulas conversations), and while the timing of it was perfect for this character we know nothing of, there's always the idea of coincidence; even if that just loops to the question of "why waste a perfectly good loaded Tigris and its a good thing that it didn't jam/miss-fire from being stuck in a hole forever".

Anyone else think to yourself that during the him riding off into the sunset moment, "War... war never changes..."

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23 minutes ago, Morrow said:
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I was under the impression that the Tenno were always in cryosleep for as long as they'd served the orokin.

As for Orokin survivors, the queens and ballas are the only ones we know of. The orokin are ancient enigmatic entities to their descendants, they have little to know understanding of anything that happened before and shortly after the Tenno's betrayal, so for them to have any idea of what the Tenno are besides the Warframes' puppet masters is unfounded.

Regarding the Stalker, I don't think he can be a Tenno, as during his conversation with Hunhow he expressed his frustration and confusion with how and warframe he killed would always be resurrected, and how he displayed what I can only describe as shock when he discovered what the Tenno truly were. If he is a Tenno, he is unaware of his nature, but an even more insidious reason for his longevity would be a similar procedure that Rell endured, or what.

And Vor is no longer a normal living being, as we can be sure that if our warframe had not saved us at the end of the The Second Dream, our operators would have been slain, but no matter how many times Vor is dispatched, he will always return. He's stated it himself, he is energy, and he cannot be destroyed.

Queens, Long-arm, Technically The Lotus, Salad V, Mr. Conclave, Ordis and any cephalon really, um...  While not really a survivor of the Orokin era (though he did mention his family/town was saved by a frame which, presumably, all went inactive after the Orokin betrayal), we can presume that Baro is probably one of the biggest experts in Orokin culture, even if he never offers insight as to why he's so dang fascinated with them, or how much he really knows of them. I guess technically Hunhow could also be considered a Orokin survivor? I mean, it's extremely true yet a coin toss as we'll never get info from our mortal enemy, plus, for all we know, sentients could be considered a form of cephalons given their AI technology seemed almost relent of them. .. I feel like that idea alone could spark a new forum.

 

Oh, and the Orokin tower the Quill seem to talk to, one that I Strongly wish we could go into. <.<

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3 minutes ago, Eis_Katze said:

Queens, Long-arm, Technically The Lotus, Salad V, Mr. Conclave, Ordis and any cephalon really, um...  While not really a survivor of the Orokin era (though he did mention his family/town was saved by a frame which, presumably, all went inactive after the Orokin betrayal), we can presume that Baro is probably one of the biggest experts in Orokin culture, even if he never offers insight as to why he's so dang fascinated with them, or how much he really knows of them. I guess technically Hunhow could also be considered a Orokin survivor? I mean, it's extremely true yet a coin toss as we'll never get info from our mortal enemy, plus, for all we know, sentients could be considered a form of cephalons given their AI technology seemed almost relent of them. .. I feel like that idea alone could spark a new forum.

 

 

I don't consider the Sentient Orokin, I get the feeling it's like calling American's Birtish, and they don't typically go about telling Orokin secrets to every ear in the Origin System. Cephalons, Ordis is an amnesiac and we don't really know what the others were allowed to know. And Alad V is Corpus, descendants of the Orokin, but definitely not Orokin. I have no idea the extent of Baro's expertise, he might be too busy collecting rugs to bother deciphering any Orokin literature he might come across.

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11 hours ago, GrimDelta said:

What if the man in the wall is actual us? AKA the older us.

When entering the void the time split..a part remained there and a part became the Tenno as we all know.

I dunno but i believe that we will finally know what is with the Man in the Wall. 

There is also the possibility that during the long sleep, the minds of tenno were stuck there.

 

Well you had me going and then it stopped. What if the man in the wall is us but from the future. As in the player character Tenno set the events in motion that led to the Ten-0 getting lost in the void. That would be considered a bootstrap paradox because they both rely on the each other happening, to happen at all, if that makes sense.

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24 minutes ago, Morrow said:
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And Vor is no longer a normal living being, as we can be sure that if our warframe had not saved us at the end of the The Second Dream, our operators would have been slain, but no matter how many times Vor is dispatched, he will always return. He's stated it himself, he is energy, and he cannot be destroyed.

You are taking a lot for granted given that most people do take for granted that the operator is stuck as they are, and no one has really asked for that to change. Your basis for your assumptions are basically... "Well I mean you don't know we could be aging normally and all these people who keep calling us immortal could just be wrong I mean what do they know they only live in that universe"...

As for vor no longer being a normal living being.

*teleports behind you, drives a punch into your back that freezes you in time, channels void energy into an amp and blows you into steaming pieces slowly drifting down like meaty snow over the area of about 30 meters* Yes I'm totally normal *holds amp to own head and blows their brains out, disappearing into a cloud of glowing particles reabsorbed into the nearest warframe... Then pops back out a second later totally unphased.* so totally fragile and easily injured. *teleports 2000 feet straight up in the air* belly flop! *plop* oh I like scraped a knee... Hold up.......... Okay it's healed now. Yup, totally a normal living being, nothing to see here.

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7 minutes ago, Morrow said:
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I don't consider the Sentient Orokin, I get the feeling it's like calling American's Birtish, and they don't typically go about telling Orokin secrets to every ear in the Origin System. Cephalons, Ordis is an amnesiac and we don't really know what the others were allowed to know. And Alad V is Corpus, descendants of the Orokin, but definitely not Orokin. I have no idea the extent of Baro's expertise, he might be too busy collecting rugs to bother deciphering any Orokin literature he might come across.

As for Alad V, Hunhow, given one of his lines in Second Dream, seems to believe Alad is a true Orokin. However, this also isn't perfectly in-line with other lore we learn about Orokin, so... ya, it's all kinda loose ends.

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More over if they want to justify that old man being us. They are going to have to explain us losing ALL our void powers to justify us not having just wrecked that dude without the need of a dusty old tigris. We do not need the weapons of our warframes, they just make things a lot easier. Just all by our piddly little spacekid selves, we are some of the most powerful soldiers our solar system has ever known. Our warframes just elevate our power up to god mode.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

You are taking a lot for granted given that most people do take for granted that the operator is stuck as they are, and no one has really asked for that to change. Your basis for your assumptions are basically... "Well I mean you don't know we could be aging normally and all these people who keep calling us immortal could just be wrong I mean what do they know they only live in that universe"...

As for vor no longer being a normal living being.

*teleports behind you, drives a punch into your back that freezes you in time, channels void energy into an amp and blows you into steaming pieces slowly drifting down like meaty snow over the area of about 30 meters* Yes I'm totally normal *holds amp to own head and blows their brains out, disappearing into a cloud of glowing particles reabsorbed into the nearest warframe... Then pops back out a second later totally unphased.* so totally fragile and easily injured. *teleports 2000 feet straight up in the air* belly flop! *plop* oh I like scraped a knee... Hold up.......... Okay it's healed now. Yup, totally a normal living being, nothing to see here.

Strange that rell grew old and died and had to transfer his soul to a warframe...

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Strange that rell grew old and died and had to transfer his soul to a warframe...

If they force unwanted permanent changes on my character I will leave the game and never give them another dollar. I am far from the only person who will feel that way if it happens. Try to defend it how ever you want but this is a topic that DE needs to drop like it's hot if they want to maintain their current popularity. For every one person who is happy with the change, two more people will leave and not come back. If they want to look at what happens when you force changes that players do not want all they need do is look at the repeated collapses of and ongoing financial craptastrophe that is Bungie. 

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

If they force unwanted permanent changes on my character I will leave the game and never give them another dollar. I am far from the only person who will feel that way if it happens. Try to defend it how ever you want but this is a topic that DE needs to drop like it's hot if they want to maintain their current popularity. For every one person who is happy with the change, two more people will leave and not come back. If they want to look at what happens when you force changes that players do not want all they need do is look at the repeated collapses of and ongoing financial craptastrophe that is Bungie. 

It's funny how people who hate having to play a space child just get told to suck it up, but as soon as the ones defending space kids get told we're getting space adults they cry and whine and threaten. It's kinda sad actually. Also good job assuming you are the majority, for all you know most people want to play as an adult or else are impartial. Realistically only entitled children will leave the game.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

If they force unwanted permanent changes on my character I will leave the game and never give them another dollar. I am far from the only person who will feel that way if it happens. Try to defend it how ever you want but this is a topic that DE needs to drop like it's hot if they want to maintain their current popularity. For every one person who is happy with the change, two more people will leave and not come back. If they want to look at what happens when you force changes that players do not want all they need do is look at the repeated collapses of and ongoing financial craptastrophe that is Bungie. 

I mean, there were plenty of us that hated suddenly being children (regardless of age, they are) and the game didn't die then. I look forward to not being a grommet, if that is indeed what will happen.. we don't really know atm.

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1 час назад, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx сказал:

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you, and I don't think that it is in Warframe's best interest to force an identity change on players who feel attached to their current identity

DE done it already in Second Dream. Before that quest, no one knew about Operator existence. There were many theories on why Tenno can switch from Atlas to Mag, true, but no one suspected that Operator is a teenager sleeping on Lua. There were no Lua.

Then, Second Dream happened and, oh boy, was it a surprise. Players were attached to frames and some of them were very... unhappy, to put it mildly. “My character is not a whiny emo kid”, “Stop forcing them on us”, “They are weak and useless”, “I am going to pretend they don’t exist”, “Remove them or everyone will leave” threads were popping like Nightwave topics do pop up this days.

DE done it before, some players were outraged, some of them left, the game survived. If DE want, they can do it again. “Time to grow up, Tenno.” For better or worse.

Edit: Hek, we may even will have a choice - to rapidly age or stay teenagers. Or we can have adult Operators only in Duviri Plains. Now, I am not sure that it was an Operator at all.

I am more worried about what will happen to Focus and how Operator combat will be handled.

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

*teleports behind you, drives a punch into your back that freezes you in time, channels void energy into an amp and blows you into steaming pieces slowly drifting down like meaty snow over the area of about 30 meters* Yes I'm totally normal *holds amp to own head and blows their brains out, disappearing into a cloud of glowing particles reabsorbed into the nearest warframe... Then pops back out a second later totally unphased.* so totally fragile and easily injured. *teleports 2000 feet straight up in the air* belly flop! *plop* oh I like scraped a knee... Hold up.......... Okay it's healed now. Yup, totally a normal living being, nothing to see here.

I believe that the transference transference ability  is just a step above transcendence, that the operator isn't actually there, but is projecting a manifestation of themselves through their warframe. I don't know if that has any basis in canon, aside from you basically becoming a stand when activating transcendence, but it makes sense to me as an explanation for why our operators don't get hurt in the field.

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31 minutes ago, Eis_Katze said:

As for Alad V, Hunhow, given one of his lines in Second Dream, seems to believe Alad is a true Orokin. However, this also isn't perfectly in-line with other lore we learn about Orokin, so... ya, it's all kinda loose ends.

 

 

I think Hunhow uses "Orokin" and "Human" interchangeably. He might not even use the word human, but I'm not sure on that.

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Fine, pretend what ever you like. That whole new player experience? It's best explained by that being the story of a tenno, not one of we who started this journey, but a tenno who was on another journey, who escaped being put in stasis, into the dream, who swore off the violence they'd been forced to live with, and simply chose to live in the ruins of the old world anonymously. Walking the fields and streams of the earth. On occasion finding her way into a village, and moving on... Then she decided to settle down in a village full of kind, gentle people, who didn't want war, or violence, just peace.... And she chose to live among them..... And then the grineer came... And destroyed the peace she had wandered the earth for countless years looking for. And why did they kill all these innocent people? To find her.... And so they drove her through the the trees and the rivers, to the temple of that long forgotten evil, and to the monstrous machines that she had once been part of operating. And she had no choice.  That is the easiest explanation for what we saw in that trailer. A tenno who wasn't put to sleep. And that means a tenno who has been alive all this time since the fall.

I mean I get you really want badly to have facial hair but what ever. 

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Fine, pretend what ever you like. That whole new player experience? It's best explained by that being the story of a tenno, not one of we who started this journey, but a tenno who was on another journey, who escaped being put in stasis, into the dream, who swore off the violence they'd been forced to live with, and simply chose to live in the ruins of the old world anonymously. Walking the fields and streams of the earth. On occasion finding her way into a village, and moving on... Then she decided to settle down in a village full of kind, gentle people, who didn't want war, or violence, just peace.... And she chose to live among them..... And then the grineer came... And destroyed the peace she had wandered the earth for countless years looking for. And why did they kill all these innocent people? To find her.... And so they drove her through the the trees and the rivers, to the temple of that long forgotten evil, and to the monstrous machines that she had once been part of operating. And she had no choice.  That is the easiest explanation for what we saw in that trailer. A tenno who wasn't put to sleep. And that means a tenno who has been alive all this time since the fall.

I mean I get you really want badly to have facial hair but what ever. 

 

 

imo concocting an elaborate backstory is more reaching than expecting our operators to grow up after seeing one do so.

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