Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

(NSW)UltPumpkinPie

The Duviri Paradox

Recommended Posts

We know that the void exists outside of normal time and space.  We know that the void and its powers break the laws of physics.

We also know that beings of the void can exist as just a form of consciousness.  Void corrupted vor forms a new body at will whenever we kill him.

Rells mind existed in the void even though his body died centuries ago.  We know that rells mind was ultimately consumed by the void. As he acted as a stop gate for the man in the wall.

Think about the tenno for a second.  They gained powers from the void.  But couldn't control them. We have slowly gained more control as we do quests, build amps, and farm focus.

Before the second dream. The tenno had to use a machine to perform transference.

After the second dream we can do it and other abilities at will.  

Transference is what? We break down into raw energy and go to a diffrrent location of any distance.  We can form a new physical body or pocess a warframe.  Or other things like in the second dream. If you know gundam 00 its essentially quantom burst. Or dbz instant transmission.

If in battle the operater goes down we go back into the warframe. If both go down we transfer back to the ship.

Our operaters have essentially limitless power they should be able to be whatever they want so long as they have control.

Look at the info we get from umbra. The warframes where reigned in by the tenno as we helped balance what was left of the original warframes minds.

Then we both rebelled against the orokin.

A paradox implies to me alternate realities, timelines, paradox universes, etc.

Perhaps the tenno was split into two beings in the void.  The paradox us has spent centuries maturing and fighting what rules over the void.

Maybe at one time both techno where mentally linked so our younger selves stashed stuff for the paradox to find. But us being in stasis for centuries broke the link.

Remember when we get out of stasis we lost memories we get some back in the second dream.

Perhaps getting sucked into the duviri paradox will relink us with our alternate selves. We'll get back more memories and become more powerful.

Its a ingame way to overhaul operater customization and give players a way to age the tenno if they want.  It could give us all sorts of new gameplay.

I have high hopes for duviri personally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, (PS4)Thealteregoroman said:

Me discovering @xxav1xl6ivax for the first time...

 

giphy.gif?cid=790b76110cc7da71a4b088b98a

 

 

YVih1GA.jpg

       

(“It’s like something out of a dream ...”)

 

What what WHAT?! Who Said that?!

Well, actually I was just thinking of something Luke Skywalker said in The Empire Strikes Back. But that’s neither here nor there, really ; ), in terms of what the [thing] pictured in the Duviri Paradox Trailer is (or what it presents as being ... or what it will be presented as ... being ... like “... still, there’s something familiar about this place. It’s like something out of a ...” SHUT UP!)

Oops. Sorry.

OK.

So, then maybe let’s review some of the things which that thing seems “like.”

There is:

The Verdant Fury (From The Technopriests, which the “thing” in the Dark Sector Trailer looks like it was heavily influenced by).

Then there’s that “thing” (The Solar Rail) from the Dark Sector Trailer (or the Solar Rail station, which is basically generating the “rail” being depicted then as kind of like a thin laser beam emission). 

Why else is there to think that the BIG thing in the Dark Sector Trailer was a Solar Rail (station, relay, whatever), and not a “ship?” 

Well unlike the other things shown, which are arranged and moving around like ships, the big “thing” is in a relatively stationary position, and it has no visible means of propulsion (as well as having a lot of visually exposed internal environment). 

The way it was shown, in terms of relative scale, was as being the biggest technological object shown. That creates (as was later realized) a difficulty for rendering in a game which is running on an engine, dedicated to dealing with a certain range & type of objects, sizes, action, etc.

It had not been brought into the “Tennoverse” yet, (e.g. actually used in Warframe, and given some updated stylization) presumably because it was just “too f-ing big.”

Hmm, then we have the Empyrean Expansion underway, which is really the star of the show. Why? Well, because it is enabling so much more now (in development), and will be (as the gradual transition needed to make sure not just new “content” will work across multiple systems, but also a newly Norged game engine ... to coin a phrase, borrowed from the description of The Norg Fish), that could never previously have been done ... like ... pulling something the size ... of ... the “thing” shown in the Dark Sector Trailer into Warframe ... or, at least not before the Empyrean ... hmmm ... 

Is it just me, or is it beginning to make a lot more sense as to why DE wanted to focus on highlighting just what the capabilities, capacity, potential of the newly Norged Evolution engine are (that will be running the Empyrean Expansion), with a practical live demonstration, that needed to converge at some point a point where video-switching to a pre-recorded (or rendered, produced) piece of “content” could be performed?

 

 *(e.g. what had been holding DE back from being able to go in the direction of adding big ship engagements and space exploration type stuff ... an impasse that was not solved by trying to pull more tricks out of what the game engine is capable of, but by actually making the game engine itself much larger and capable of so much more ... not that is f***ing jaw-dropping impressive. How often does a game developer or producer, or any “creator” in “the industry” actually get to change the very game engine which they are using, and make it bigger and more capable of doing more stuff?)

Basically there is no reason why the design could not be repurposed from how it was used in the Dark Sector Trailer to being used, more fully, as the Zariman, or a ghost ship of it, or anything else really, in Warframe.

There is the comic book rendering which basically is meant to depict the general sort of Shape of The Zariman (in The Rell comic that accompanied the Chains of Harrow Quest). It sort of had that same effect of being subjected to the interpretive stylization of a comic book artist that the ships in the comic book “adaptation” of Star Wars had (a lot of which was being drawn before the actual props for the movie had even been shot). 

 There’s the Schematic which was very roughly illustrated within the Vitruvian (During The Sacrifice Quest), that essentially looked like a rough concept sketch, rendered as a “negative” image, and then given a amber tint and nestled in with a bunch of more solid looking UI graphic elements. 

So that “drawing” (basically) looked like a sketched version of the (Solar Rail) in The Dark Sector Trailer. 

And it had a line-connected annotation (written in Orokin Text) that spelled out the phonetic pronunciation of Zariman 10 0.

(Or Zariman Ten Zero ...  or the Z. Ten Z. or the Z. Ten-O, X-0, 10-O, Z-Tenno, Zeno  ... no, wait ... I’m thinking of Zeno’s Paradoxes there ... sorry ...The Zero Man? Naughts and Crosses? ... hmm, well, actually if the O represents the Origin System, and X represents the numeral Ten and the Last Letter of the original Phoenician Alphabet “X,” which was “Taw,” but pronounced “Tau,” and later morphed into the Greek “T” which is “Tau,” then X O, could indicate it was intended to bridge the O (Origin) and X (Tau) Systems ... nah ...)

 

And then there’s a bunch of “Micronauts” type stuff ...

i.e. The “structure” (which seems to be part composite, part cut-away) depicted in the Art which accompanies The Orokin Codex Entry.

Any then the architectural resemblance between that structure and the original helmet/head shapes of Excalibur Prime & Umbra.

And then there’s also the overall structural similarity between those forms and ...

 

As far as the question:

Can we agree, the Duviri Update will add a lot of Lore and future extensions to the game?

Hard to say, even that (for me), however, it is so damn gorgeous that I find myself slipping it to non-gamers as a Trailer to Check Out (usually along with turning them onto something that I only just recently discovered for the first time, but was actually done in 2011, as a showcase piece by an animation house in Canada, that presented as a “Trailer” for an animated version of the Jodorowsky & Möbius comic The Incal, and totally holds up as a Trailer for That Set of Stories).

Then, after priming the pump with one piece of cool new brain candy, (which is a “Trailer” for something that is actually not a “Movie”), I’ll follow it up with another Trailer (for something that also is not actually a “Movie”), to make for a sort of Meta Trailer Double Feature (without letting on that it’s for a video game, or a part of one, so to speak), framing it as being like Metal Hurlant and The Jodoverse given the Avalon treatment in the Digital Age.

 

Because one of the most awesome (and subtle things) about The Duviri Paradox Trailer is, that you don’t have to know any thing about Warframe, or even about Video Games at all, to get wrapped up in it. Warframe does not even appear anywhere in the trailer (in text or logography). 

As a stand-alone, it has just the right balance of visual narrative surrealist cinema aesthetics, and production quality to attract the attentions of innumerable audience types, regardless of what the medium, context, or story of the DUVIRI PARADOX will actually turn out to be (or not be). I mean it really does come off like  Mamoru Oshii dragging the spirit of El Topo or Holy Mountain into the third decade of the twenty first century.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:
Because one of the most awesome (and subtle things) about The Duviri Paradox Trailer is, that you don’t have to know any thing about Warframe, or even about Video Games at all, to get wrapped up in it. Warframe does not even appear anywhere in the trailer (in text or logography). 

As a stand-alone, it has just the right balance of visual narrative surrealist cinema aesthetics, and production quality to attract the attentions of innumerable audience types, regardless of what the medium, context, or story of the DUVIRI PARADOX will actually turn out to be (or not be). I mean it really does come off like  Mamoru Oshii dragging the spirit of El Topo or Holy Mountain into the third decade of the twenty first century.

Let's not go about trying to forge a connection in people's minds between Warframe and that creepy pervert Jodorowsky, please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-04 at 3:43 PM, Kyneidos said:

Let's not go about trying to forge a connection in people's minds between Warframe and that creepy pervert Jodorowsky, please.

 

I don’t think there’s any real danger of that, as Warframe is SO incredibly sanitized that most anything fan artists do to even try to enhance any sense of sensuality comes of as seeming at least as creepy and perverted as anything Jodorowsky committed to film (arguably).

 

So really, most familiarity with the majority of his work comes by way of the other artists whom he collaborated & worked with, (i.e. pulling in Möbius, Giger, O’Bannon to work on development for a cinematic adaptation of Dune), after which most of his efforts were channeled through Möbius and the Artists that would make up the original stories published in Metal Hurlant (translated the following year into English and republished as Heavy Metal).

 

Of course all of that is really only more tangential and off-topic than trying to use a personal impression formed by The Duviri Paradox Trailer (which is central to the topic of this forum) as a springboard for casting morally indignant aspersions on a particular artist/filmmaker.

 

Because there is obviously no relation between Dune, Möbius, H.R. Giger -

 

(who was recommended to the project by Salvador Dali, in light of other involvements preventing his own participation at the time, but also whose history of “perversion” in cinema had established infamy going all the way back to his collaboration with Bunuel on The Andalusian Dog)

dRlhX3T.jpg

u6AwGt4.jpg

 - or any of the other talents & artists which first converged when working on that project (and proceeded onward to bring Alien and Bladerunner to the Big Screen, Small Screens & Video Games), and Warframe or The Duviri Paradox.

Any possibly seeming similarities are just purely coincidental. There was no influence or inspiration from any of that on Warframe or The Duviri Paradox Trailer.

(Damn, it’s really difficult to use text to convincingly state something ironically, but I gave it my best shot there).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the interesting aspects to emerge from checking out the concept and development panels labeled as “Dax Duviri” (which I put into those particular terms, because there being an intention for that figure to resemble an Orokin Dax does not necessarily mean that it is supposed to be a Dax) -

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/w8KzP6

- is that there are no physically connecting anatomical features (such as muscle or ligaments).

In fact there is no indicated living tissue, organs, muscle, veins, etc. represented at all. 

The figure is really an assemblage of the skeletal and otherwise “non-living” components, which are somehow animated, yet are specifically connotative of the inanimate, morbid, non-living remains.

The same thing applies to the horse-like mount which it is seen to be riding upon.

They are both the stuff of apparitions and ghostly reanimations of skeletons & bones.

So, what’s the big deal about that. We see that sort of thing done in fiction throughout all media and mediums, reaching back across millennia of mythology, folklore, supernatural fiction, and whatnot, throughout known human history. 

Yes, but we do not have any evidence of that sort of phenomena actually occurring. Likewise, it is not something which has presented within Warframe.

In short, what is strongly suggested is, that the “Dax Duviri” and its Mount, are very much different from any phenomena within the “Tennoverse.” They indicate an animation of what is dead. Ghosts and skeletons. The stuff not of life, but of fictions and myths about the “afterlife,” or a “land of the dead,” and so forth.

Such a realm is (to the Orokin perspective) just plain impossible. Their beliefs or “faith” falls within the parameters of “substance [Cartesian] dualism” (which is still subordinate to “God,” which The Orokin hold “The Void” to be in its stead), and “monism.” 

Dualism-vs-Monism.png

Despite comporting themselves as the equivalent to “gods” ruling over their empire, there is, nonetheless, a certain fear and reverence which they pay to “The Void” (in matriarchal rather than patriarchal terms).

The Void (also used in place of “heaven” within the “Tennoverse”), is something which even the Orokin fear violating the will of. 

One example which is indicative of that fear being what the Lotus described of the Orokin response to discovering The Zariman adrift. 

Thoroughally destroying and erasing all records and indications of any effort having been made in terms of what that ship had been sent out to do.

More peculiar, perhaps, was that they did not destroy what was most distressful to them, the “Tenno.” 

If the scramble to try to erase all evidence of their mistakes was motivated by a fear of The Void (and, really, what else was there that the Orokin actually we’re afraid of, or could possibly discover anything which they did not permit?) then why in the hell would they not destroy the most damning of evidence?

Of course an easy answer would be that they could not. 

A major dilemma.

That would indicate that what they found, somehow came from The Void.

Devils. 

The actual origin of The Tenno remains a suspended mystery.

But the terrain presented in The Duviri Paradox trailer reveals something even more mysterious to the Orokin beliefs concerning life and death. A realm where the dead are animate. Surreal as it may be, it is also, somehow, material. And the commonly held laws which distinguish living and dead can be inverted. 

Sure, there are a lot of presumptions that are based only on strong indicators from what has presented as evident through participatory experience and “lore,” in all of that.

But, until such a point where stronger or more conclusive information becomes available to replace it, it does form a working framework for drawing considerations for the time being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-05 at 8:16 AM, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

I don’t think there’s any real danger of that, as Warframe is SO incredibly sanitized that most anything fan artists do to even try to enhance any sense of sensuality comes of as seeming at least as creepy and perverted as anything Jodorowsky committed to film (arguably).

That is as it should be. A story revolving around the trials and tribulations of traumatized child-soldiers is the last place that anyone should be indulging in "sensuality."

As for the "artist" defence, no doubt the Orokin felt that their Yuvan Theatres were "artistic" as well. I'm sure Jodorowsky would have appreciated them, since they were created for the purposes of carrying out a sort of rape, which is how Jodorowsky described his cinematic intentions towards Frank Herbert and Dune, strangely enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always suspected that the player character avatar(young Tenno) and the adult one(NPC) are two separate entities and not the same person at different points on the same timeline. The trailer reveals that there is a moment when the young Tenno and his older twin switch minds, which is symbolized by both the young Tenno(twin mind) looking at his hands in shock, while the old twin(young Tenno mind) attempts to use his void powers a few times not knowing that the body he's in doesn't possess them.

That this is the premise of the quest and probably the gimmick of the new open world, Steve has all but confirmed in his last live stream when he mentioned that the quest and title was inspired by the twin paradox, a hypothetical scenario exploring two identical twins developing at different rates due to one being affected by time dilation.

The adult Tenno will have lived a completely different life, a much longer life(probably), and if I had to guess, the story arc in that quest will revolve around the young Tenno with the old Tenno's mind helping the old Tenno with the young Tenno's mind complete a task that will result in the Zariman getting freed and returning back to normal space, completing a causality loop.

Personally, I'm just happy DE most probably won't do what other companies would have done, that being force player characters to grow up into generic space suit wearing adults. Young player characters is one of the standout points that make Warframe unique in the Western game market.

4 hours ago, Kyneidos said:

That is as it should be. A story revolving around the trials and tribulations of traumatized child-soldiers is the last place that anyone should be indulging in "sensuality."

As for the "artist" defence, no doubt the Orokin felt that their Yuvan Theatres were "artistic" as well. I'm sure Jodorowsky would have appreciated them, since they were created for the purposes of carrying out a sort of rape, which is how Jodorowsky described his cinematic intentions towards Frank Herbert and Dune, strangely enough.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with exploring these kinds of ideas. In fact, we already have witnessed our Tenno being raped, albeit mentally, by the Elder Queen in the War Within. Just because an artists draws inspirations from parts of life you find distasteful doesn't discredit the value of the art itself. Otherwise you'd have to disavow some of the most creative people of our time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-18 at 10:38 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

While the 4th dimension is time, the 5th dimension is alternate timelines/alternate realities that are all based on the minute changes and differences that could have occurred (probability, free will, etc).

According to theoretical physicists, every dimension must be perpendicular to all previous dimensions.

So you're not entirely wrong.

My personal belief is that this adult self we control will be an adult version of ourselves that never gained powers, and that our goal will be to help our past selves within the Void to gain those powers. This may even be how we originally got those powers and finally left the Void. Hence... paradox. (I also believe that we were originally adults when we entered the Void, so things may get REALLY weird - but that's just because of the Ember Prime Codex entry)

Actually... it's design reminds me of Ayatan sculptures, especially that "devouring maw" from The War Within. Not to mention that leviathan that we saw at the beginning of the tease.

There is actually a particularly amusing distinction which has been employed from within “The Tennoverse,” that employs a different meaning from the one commonly associated with the “sciences.”

As far as I know, there have been no prior iterations of this alternate categorical distinction having been used.

(It should be noted that the reference is not to a “fourth wall break,” even though it is actually performing one. And to that extent, technically, “Fourth wall breaks” have/had been used prior to this, and in a way which I have actually seen elicit responses from players, who have found first encountering subtitled translations of “bosses,” especially infested ones, directly addressing or referring to them via their IGN to be unnerving, unsettling or even disturbing.)

Those who linked their Warframe account to Twitch Prime would receive free “prize loot.” 

Notification of these “Twitch [Prime] Drops” actually came to players in-game inboxes as messages from Darvo. There is, of course, a “running gag” nested within them, which plays with the similarities and differences between what is being perceived as a “fourth dimensional wall,” by NPC within the Tennoverse, and a “Fourth Wall Break” (which is actually being used by addressing the Player by his/her IGN)

1st.

 

Subject: I Found Some Crazy Stuff

 

Body: [Your IGN], 

You'll never believe this. 

I found the most peculiar Void Rift. 

The signals I'm getting from this thing are just unexplainable, 

it's like they aren't even from this system. 

But that's not even the crazy part...

I scanned a freaking FROST PRIME WARFRAME and a PRIME SYANDANA. 

Just sitting there waiting to be taken. FOR FREE.

I tried to pilot my ship into the Rift 

but there's some sort of 'fourth-dimensional wall' that's blocking my passage. 

I can't go in, but you're special. 

Maybe you can retrieve those sweet, sweet Prime items.

 

Your friend, 

Darvo

 

2nd.


[Your IGN], 

Lightning has struck twice! That's right. 

I've found another strange Void Rift.

Where it leads, I have no idea. 

What's inside? 

I'm detecting a SOMA PRIME and a SCINDO PRIME. 

Just waiting for a Tenno to snatch them up, FOR FREE.

Try as I might, I cannot break this 'fourth-dimensional-wall' 

and take the items for myself. 

So it's up to you, Tenno. 

Find more info in your ship's market.

Your jealous friend, 

Darvo

 

3rd.

Do you know what irony is, [your IGN]?

What about finding yet another magical Void Rift, filled with even more amazing PRIME ITEMS, all of which are out of my reach? Is that freaking irony, Tenno? Sure feels like it.

Know what’s in there this time, Tenno? A freaking TRINITY PRIME WARFRAME and a SPEKTAKA PRIME SYANDANA!

As usual, some mysterious force is stopping me from claiming them myself. So why don’t you wander across the fold and pick up that FREE STUFF, just like you did last time?

Your loyal (and totally not bitter) friend,

Darvo

 

 

The last of those pulls directly from a fundamental principle which applies to the player/Tenno relation within The “Tennoverse,” elucidated during The War Within, which essentially establishes three, discreet, but interrelated/interdependent  “dimensions.” The “wholly other” (or the “Khora,” if you’d like) implying an intersection with at least one “dimension” which is outside of The Tennoverse. The Universe or World of the player.

“You exist on the fold between two worlds. The world we know, of blood and steel, and the world that watches and dreams, the Void.”

The Origin System

The Fold ——— Tenno ——— Player

The Void

 

 

LpEPBUY.jpg

nYjXjgN.jpg

 

 * (“The Tennoverse” being an easier way of saying “The combined in-game ‘universe’ of Warframe and ‘official’/‘canonical’ contiguous media, e.g. print and/or digital comics, ‘Cinematic’ ‘teaser trailers,’ etc.”

It also may, perhaps, provide a means of establishing a beginning framework for discriminating “lore” from anything and everything that describes or explains the constituents of the fictional environment which informs factual text & context of the game “universe.”)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think we should be forced to age.  Rather the paradox should advance our powers further. Giving the tenno enough control to make their bodies whatever they want.

This is a way to give players a better character creator. Have an age slider and the problem is solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-09 at 11:58 AM, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

I do not think we should be forced to age.  Rather the paradox should advance our powers further. Giving the tenno enough control to make their bodies whatever they want.

This is a way to give players a better character creator. Have an age slider and the problem is solved.

Um, I missed the statement of “the problem.”

Is it something you could point me towards, or copy and paste here for me?

i.e. 

Problem:

X has been = Z, or X + Whatever has been = Z, but is X is being changed to Z = X without a Y to connect them in alphabetical order.

Solution:

Make Y demonstrate how X relates to Z and provide an interface for it so that it makes sense,

Please, don’t take that the wrong way.

That’s just a sort of rough, nonspecific, way of illustrating how a solution reciprocates a problem by following the problem being stated.

I’m not trying to FORCE you to use that exact format.

I’m not trying to FORCE you to state a problem for which a solution is being provided.

I’m not trying to FORCE anyone to do anything.

I just asking if you could inform me as to how, or where the problem has been stated, (if it’s not too much of a bother, and can be conveniently accessed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s funny, but one thing which is (in one sense) very obvious, is still (in another sense) only vaguely implied.

We, The Tenno, are not from The Origin System.

It is, of course, obvious that as Players, we are from our own “system.”

The assertion that what has been “DE’s” intention with Warframe, has been that the players are being put into a position of playing themselves, under the very different circumstances of Warframe, in a “persistent and evolving MMO like” Origin System, was something which actually designing a proxy for the player as an “Operator” inside of the game itself, was aimed toward clarifying.

Apparently there were, and are, just too many more players who are accustomed to RPG “character creation,” for that to have sunk in. 

The addition of Nora Night, putting a straining emphasis upon players (as Tenno) “being their best selves,” also seems to have had little sway over traditional RPG player programming.

Perhaps the terms of the Paradox, if it is something that is well enough framed, will be such that the solution to the paradox will derive from finally “getting it.” 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-07 at 8:54 AM, Kyneidos said:

That is as it should be. A story revolving around the trials and tribulations of traumatized child-soldiers is the last place that anyone should be indulging in "sensuality."

As for the "artist" defence, no doubt the Orokin felt that their Yuvan Theatres were "artistic" as well. I'm sure Jodorowsky would have appreciated them, since they were created for the purposes of carrying out a sort of rape, which is how Jodorowsky described his cinematic intentions towards Frank Herbert and Dune, strangely enough.

There is no “art defense,” any more than there are (or were) any “Orokin.”

I truly have NO DOUBT, that insights into the history and emotional states of the Orokin will be enthralling (to professionals at the intake to a psychiatric facility).

I have little doubt that most anyone whom I would commend seeing the Duviri Paradox Trailer to, as a work that stands on it own merits (e.g. someone who is NOT a “gamer,” and would have no clue as to what the hell so many efforts to draw comparisons to Hideo .. who? Metal what solid? ... are all about, but who DOES have interests in cinema and the arts), a most effective combined analogy for a “set-up” would be to invoke a combination of The Incal Trailer, Avalon and El Topo and/or HolyMountain.

I have little doubt that it would work in order to gain an interest and favorable response under such circumstances, because it already has. 

I have little doubt that it would draw the negative attentions of some fanatically obsessed zealots on a seemingly unhinged personal crusade against Jodorowsky, towards saying anything at any opportunity, to do nothing less than draw even more attention toward whom is being so vehemently advocated against, as to completely lose track of any sense of topical or contextual propriety. 

In such an instance, the best I could really say would be, go hit up that other game maker ... Hideo ... or whatever his game is right now ... for forums to get some good slam time in.

 

RZj70ju.jpg

 

EZxUln7.jpg

lJqDT9I.jpg

 

O7E3vgj.jpg

npVpnlt.jpg

coGd7Dl.jpg

CmtZoU0.jpg

ikUtyrJ.jpg

lxHdPzH.jpg

Dg7bl0z.jpg

iukWHQC.jpg

1N11gHs.jpg

JLQGWvH.jpg

BTxakA2.jpg

CJxhJTs.jpg

qdtwxqL.jpg

luMx4zr.jpg

SkNkjpm.jpg

rzJBjS0.jpg

MUVEeOh.jpg

Pg7ADoY.jpg

lxMF7JZ.jpg

XvtL4wj.jpg

3a3IEDY.jpg

s1yw5A7.jpg

ex5iSXW.jpg

mUWXNvs.jpg

fxYcJ5Z.jpg

PODM7iN.jpg

5KEAzSx.jpg

j89YPwe.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

Um, I missed the statement of “the problem.”

Is it something you could point me towards, or copy and paste here for me?

i.e. 

Problem:

X has been = Z, or X + Whatever has been = Z, but is X is being changed to Z = X without a Y to connect them in alphabetical order.

Solution:

Make Y demonstrate how X relates to Z and provide an interface for it so that it makes sense,

Please, don’t take that the wrong way.

That’s just a sort of rough, nonspecific, way of illustrating how a solution reciprocates a problem by following the problem being stated.

I’m not trying to FORCE you to use that exact format.

I’m not trying to FORCE you to state a problem for which a solution is being provided.

I’m not trying to FORCE anyone to do anything.

I just asking if you could inform me as to how, or where the problem has been stated, (if it’s not too much of a bother, and can be conveniently accessed).

Not everyone like the tenno as kids. People have been asking for adult tenno or at least a better character creator.

The paradox is a ingame story way we could get a overhaul that would give everyone greater creative control.

The problem is i suppose people wanting different things and the solution is having creative freedom put into the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-07 at 12:03 AM, BGamer18 said:

Do you think that the skeleton horse like thing is an orokin creation or something else unknown? The guy riding on it kind of resembled a Dax is why I am asking.

Look very carefully...The “Dax’s” head is down initially and resembles some greater insect-like intelligence.

This “Dax” and his “horse”...the giant “living” transport...they seem like some ominous intelligence playing at mimicry and control...taking on the shapes of the things it conquers and consumes.  Possibly a corrupted Sentry?  Something worse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I somewhat assume the things in the paradox will be nightmarish versions of other beings.  So over time things got stuck in or consumed by the void.

The paradox is likely an alternate reality of the void.  The character which seems to be a older powerless tenno.  Is probably a alternate us that didn't make it out of the void.

Perhaps the 2 versions of us will unite as one more powerful being at the end of a quest chain. 

Thus the tenno creator engine could get a complete overhaul.  Giving players much more creaative freedom.  And making operater mode more useful for gameplay.

But I'm just guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woow there's more crazies players then me about this upcoming update...im dreaming about this update before we seen him in public...but your topic is to big that I don't know if anyone rid 2 the end... After all is just speculation,and im only interested in having some new from DE. And hoping that I can finally get mature operator and to stay this way and not having to come back. For the rest of this I believe is going to bee fun to play and experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... the trailer really doesn't give that much substantial information.

Obviously there's that unsettling place with a temporal paradox going on where time is either mixed up or shifting around, Operator can apparently use Warframe-weapons and ride the proverbial dead horse now.

Also, adult Operators wear ivory-masks because they're ashamed they can't remember where they stored their guns when they were children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-23 at 3:41 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Look very carefully...The “Dax’s” head is down initially and resembles some greater insect-like intelligence.

This “Dax” and his “horse”...the giant “living” transport...they seem like some ominous intelligence playing at mimicry and control...taking on the shapes of the things it conquers and consumes.  Possibly a corrupted Sentry?  Something worse?

Yes, well looking very closely, I can see that the effort put into forming a likeness of a Dax, from only the structures which would be considered “remains,” or non-living, (bones, clothes, adornments, etc. w/o flesh, muscles, organs, etc.) was quite well spent, since the impression of THAT likeness has been quite commonly registered, commented upon and accepted as being very deliberate.

Now when I say “commonly,” I mean that there is pervasive discussion going on about that depiction. I do not mean that “everyone” believes that it looks like a Dax or is supposed to. (And in many instances when the position has been taken, which casts a doubtful attitude towards either or both of those perceptions, quotation marks are used when “Dax” is referenced, as an indicator that there is no substantiation underlying the inference of a “Dax”).

So, as far as the substantiation underlying the Dax being applicable to the Duviri Paradox Cinematic, putting “Dax” into quotation marks, no matter how many times over, will still not get very far in convincing anyone that it is somehow unwarranted to make such a reference in those terms.

1PhOeBx.jpg

Now moving on to looking very closely at the head, it seems reasonable to infer that there was some deliberate effort put into emphasizing the effect of Pareidolia, such that it would come off like a sort of scary looking face of some sort, like an anthropomorphic insect or some sort of alien like abstraction. Even thinking that it somehow visually resembles an insect-like intelligence, can still fit into those parameters (although it does really stretch them).

 

vKL1nVH.jpg

But where a description of something which attention is being called towards to “look closely” at, consisting of a few frames of digitally rendered animation, veers into Apophenia, is in “like some ominous intelligence playing at mimicry and control...taking on the shapes of the things it conquers and consumes.  Possibly a corrupted Sentry?”

U6m3YFF.jpg

LlasRMN.jpg

Q9dFi82.jpg

sprRTPV.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

Yes, well looking very closely, I can see that the effort put into forming a likeness of a Dax, from only the structures which would be considered “remains,” or non-living, (bones, clothes, adornments, etc. w/o flesh, muscles, organs, etc.) was quite well spent, since the impression of THAT likeness has been quite commonly registered, commented upon and accepted as being very deliberate.

Now when I say “commonly,” I mean that there is pervasive discussion going on about that depiction. I do not mean that “everyone” believes that it looks like a Dax or is supposed to. (And in many instances when the position has been taken, which casts a doubtful attitude towards either or both of those perceptions, quotation marks are used when “Dax” is referenced, as an indicator that there is no substantiation underlying the inference of a “Dax”).

So, as far as the substantiation underlying the Dax being applicable to the Duviri Paradox Cinematic, putting “Dax” into quotation marks, no matter how many times over, will still not get very far in convincing anyone that it is somehow unwarranted to make such a reference in those terms.

1PhOeBx.jpg

Now moving on to looking very closely at the head, it seems reasonable to infer that there was some deliberate effort put into emphasizing the effect of Pareidolia, such that it would come off like a sort of scary looking face of some sort, like an anthropomorphic insect or some sort of alien like abstraction. Even thinking that it somehow visually resembles an insect-like intelligence, can still fit into those parameters (although it does really stretch them).

 

vKL1nVH.jpg

But where a description of something which attention is being called towards to “look closely” at, consisting of a few frames of digitally rendered animation, veers into Apophenia, is in “like some ominous intelligence playing at mimicry and control...taking on the shapes of the things it conquers and consumes.  Possibly a corrupted Sentry?”

U6m3YFF.jpg

LlasRMN.jpg

Q9dFi82.jpg

sprRTPV.jpg

 

It’s a very simple suggestion that has precedence. The faux-Dax is a sleeping puppet or slave.  The larger insect-like face is this ominous intelligence taking notice of you THROUGH the faux-Dax and then waking it up to attack you.

It could be a Sentry-capture.

It could be a Sentient-fragment-drone.

It could be under the influence of TMITW.

It could be some combination of the above.

But the art Direction is VERY CLEAR here...there is a 2nd face/presence/intelligence behind the Dax-like rider.

And yes, there is a STRONG suggestion of a Dax (Orokin Samurai), also.  The shape of the Silouette and helm and armor, the use of a Katana-like blade, and the riding of a horse are clues.  It is seemingly a perverse automaton of the Dax seen fighting in the new trailer cinematic.  

DE likes to drop visual clues to foreshadow lore.

Admittedly it’s also a nod to the classic cinematic move of a cowboy villain raising his eyes from beneath the brim of his cowboy hat to lock eyes before attacking.

DE beats us over the head with Red Dead Redemption symbolism (the “old” Operator is a dead ringer and then you have Western-style whistling as he rides off into the Duviri version of a sunset).

DP is a Tennoverse Western.

I predicted that the armor/carapace of Sentients was used in Warframe construction, not only from Hunhow’s “from our bones” comment, but also when comparing Volt/Volt Prime’s Armor to the Armor points on Eidelons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-29 at 4:35 AM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

It’s a very simple suggestion that has precedence. The faux-Dax is a sleeping puppet or slave.  The larger insect-like face is this ominous intelligence taking notice of you THROUGH the faux-Dax and then waking it up to attack you.

It could be a Sentry-capture.

It could be a Sentient-fragment-drone.

It could be under the influence of TMITW.

It could be some combination of the above.

But the art Direction is VERY CLEAR here...there is a 2nd face/presence/intelligence behind the Dax-like rider.

And yes, there is a STRONG suggestion of a Dax (Orokin Samurai), also.  The shape of the Silouette and helm and armor, the use of a Katana-like blade, and the riding of a horse are clues.  It is seemingly a perverse automaton of the Dax seen fighting in the new trailer cinematic.  

DE likes to drop visual clues to foreshadow lore.

Admittedly it’s also a nod to the classic cinematic move of a cowboy villain raising his eyes from beneath the brim of his cowboy hat to lock eyes before attacking.

DE beats us over the head with Red Dead Redemption symbolism (the “old” Operator is a dead ringer and then you have Western-style whistling as he rides off into the Duviri version of a sunset).

DP is a Tennoverse Western.

I predicted that the armor/carapace of Sentients was used in Warframe construction, not only from Hunhow’s “from our bones” comment, but also when comparing Volt/Volt Prime’s Armor to the Armor points on Eidelons.

The DP is a Tennoverse Western? Ahhh ... no.

The majority of the most popular “Western” movie styles and iconography that is culturally familiar, is carried over from the international (mostly Italian) reimagining of “The Old West” (“Wild West,” etc.), which Sergio Leone carved out a territory and name as the “King” of.

The Cinematic stylization which presents as influenced by “Western” (i.e. “Cowboys,” and 19th century post-Civil War era “Frontier” America locations), derives entirely from that “school” and its 

There was, however, underlying those productions, an incredible amount of East - West exchange beginning from Akira Kurosawa and the influence (and even direct adaptation) of older American Westerns (John Ford being a particular standout), transplanted from Cowboy to Samurai. That exchange was reciprocated with Leone doing likewise (from Kurosawa in particular) as influence (and even direct adaptation) from Old Édo to Old West (shooting mostly in Italy and Spain). The influence of those films over El Topo (in particular) and a rather vaguely defined sub-genre of the “Acid Western” is most pronounced (while the “classic westerns” are pretty much out of the picture ... so to speak). 

It was the 60’s cross influence of “Eastern” (e.g. “Samurai”) movies into the (mostly Italian) European Produced “Westerns,” that fueled an even further reciprocation with Takashi Miiki’s direct adaptation of Sergio Corbucci’s 1966 “Django” (which drew heavily from Kurosawa’s Yojimbo) into Sukiaki Western Django (shot entirely in Japanese, save for Quinten Tarantino’s cameo dialogue).

if there is any single term that can most inclusively sum up what has been shown of The Duviri Paradox, it’s “CINEMATIC.”

To call it a “trailer” would (obviously) be quite far from correct. To presume that it is actually showing anything which will occur within Warframe, would be terribly unrealistic (in that it would mean that whom we are seeing in the “Cinematic” will be a NPC to whom we have not yet been introduced).

UNLIKE the new “Trailer/Cinematic Intro” -

 

(and its [functionally] VERY SIMILAR predecessor, that had approximately it’s first half incorporated into the game itself, along with a massive structural reworking, reorganization and “FRAMING” of existing, newly added, and newly developing “content” of the entire game, back in 2016),

 

which shows “content” slated to serve as introductory cinematics to the game, within the gameplay “environment*” (or “in-game”) early next year. the Duviri Paradox Cinematic does not.

It pretty well assures that what is seen in terms of the “Cinematic Content” will NOT be seen (in terms of its Cinematic “Content”) within the context of Warframe.

But, if it is not showing something that we will see happen “in-game,” then what’s the point of making it?

Why show us that, if it’s not something which is going to actually happen, just like that, when we play the game?

Why are we all going to have to be a guy with facial hair, wearing a mask, and go through everything that was just shown?

How come we don’t get to pick what our gender will be, and script out what will happen for ourselves?

Now that we’ve seen this, why the hell would we want to try to play through it “in-game,” just to make it do the same thing?

(Isn’t that really pretty backwards-thinking of DE, to basically force us to do the same thing that you had to do to play those Laser Disc Arcade Games back in the 80’s, where they just chopped up an animated movie, and demanded that you press just the right button at just the right moment, to represent some “right” action, in order to just keep watching the movie?)

Well, there is  one reply, that will sufficiently address all of those (and countless similar) questions, without answering any of them:

”Grow UP!”

It’s a Cinematic that uses a Visual Narrative to showcase some of the things that will be seen in (“what we’re not going to show you ... the new ‘Open World,’”) part of the game which is in active development. It is something which was anticipated, due to it having become known already that DE was working on a next “Open World”-Type of expansion, with a Place Holder Name “The Plains of Duviri,” and which they made a special point of saying they would not be showing us (well, okay, it was Steve Sinclair who actually said it, but it’s the same difference).

And so Steve, rather slyly, pulled a surprise by telling a sort of “half-truth.” They did not show the next “Open World,” (exactly), but rather they made a Cinematic using some of the assets and content, providing a tease of what is being worked on will look and feel like, without really “giving anything away” about it. 

It does not “show” the new part of the game that is being worked on, in terms of where, when, what, how it will be, or work, or what will happen, how it will be played, who or what any characters or their likenesses are supposed to be. It delivers a gist impression. A lot can be gleaned from that, as it is visually (and audibly) very enriched. There is practically nothing which it shows that has ever been seen in Warframe before, yet the likenesses to both things familiar from Warframe and non in-game experience are enormously abundant. The imagery is emphatically DREAM LIKE, as is the visual narrative. Heavily entrenched in symbolism.

Apparently it is an environment that is governed far more by the sorts of “mechanics” or “theory” underlying “dream Logic,” or “Surrealism,” than by anything that is more familiar to the sense of realism (hyperbolic as it is) guiding how Warframe works in a way that is similar enough to ordinary, “real world” experience. 

The implications made by the way the Cinematic was framed, when it was first shown, are that (unlike the previous two “Open World” Type environments), this one will be reliant upon a rather advanced level of prerequisite in-game experience (i.e. completion of The War Within Quest at the bare minimum).

 Another extraneous piece of framing information that was (of course, deliberately) included during the “set-up” for the first showing of the DP Cinematic, was delivered via the Cephalon NPC (being used for development builds of the Railjack system in the Empyrean Expansion), referencing a “FIFTH dimension,” which Void Storms tear through (or into).

The prevailing Four Dimensions are The Void, The Origin System, The Fold, and the world that is outside of Warframe’s “Game Universe.” The New environment is VERY strongly presented as a “Through The Looking Glass” type of realm. What John Dee would have described in terms of “a place where the verities become manifest.” Where the persistently immaterial substance which we (as Players/Tenno) actually get to see as “The Void,” is enormously inverted.

(We can see The Void, via a sort of phenomenology which is just automatically granted, whereas other NPCs just see the unfathomably deep darkness of infinitely distant space).  

Of course there is a peculiar sort of reaction that occurs when things that very mysterious and little known are revealed, wherein players will tend to sort of swap their own poverty of knowledge in relation to the developers abundance (since they are thoroughly entrenched in actually making this, and deeply invested in having to make it work). So where we know very little, it is because they have not told us much of anything about it. So it gets somehow assumed that they know even less, and are thus, somehow malleable to instantly creating whatever players (believe that they) want or don’t want. 

As an illustration, taken directly from this forum thread:

”I 

 somewhat assume the things in the paradox will be nightmarish versions of other beings.  So over time things got stuck in or consumed by the void.

The paradox is likely an alternate reality of the void.  The character which seems to be a older powerless tenno.  Is probably a alternate us that didn't make it out of the void.

Perhaps the 2 versions of us will unite as one more powerful being at the end of a quest chain. 

Thus the tenno creator engine could get a complete overhaul.  Giving players much more creaative freedom.  And making operater mode more useful for gameplay.”

A “Tenno Creator Engine?”

”Grow up!”

I guess I’m practically the opposite. I see and saw the Cinematic and just feel this fantastic sense of fulfillment. That it is a beautiful whole unto itself. Something that could stand its own ground, without needing to have any relational dependency upon anything else. That what is there can just as well fulfill the entirety of a work, which concludes with revealing its title, as it can a prelude to something more to come, or reliant upon something else which frames a context. 

Maybe being able to appreciate the DP Cinematic as something whole, has some fundamental relation to what growing up is really about. 

I have only ever pressed the question of what the actual paradox is, as a rhetorical device, in response to those who look to discard any relevance in that title, and go right on into trying to say what they do and don’t want from it, formatted in a way that they believe theories are presented.

I had just noticed a YouTube video having been posted (when going to retrieve the links to the Cinematic Intro/Trailers) with a title asking, “What is the Paradox, exactly?”

Look, if it has been disclosed, then there would be little point to making a whole video just to try to find out from somebody. Right now, it is not something that has been made known. 

I don’t need to watch a video (that is even longer than the Cinematic which it is related to) to figure out how or when to guess or ask what.

If any answer will do, then it can just as well make do with what I left in the comments box as it can with whatever constitutes the “content” of the video.

 

There,

in The Origin System,

what lies in wait to be discovered is that

“This is what you are, (a Tenno),”

but it is not who you are,

while what lies in wait to be discovered,

in a FIFTH dimension,

is that “This is who you are,”

but it is not what you are.

 

How is that for a Paradox?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-09-29 at 11:49 PM, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

The DP is a Tennoverse Western? Ahhh ... no.

The majority of the most popular “Western” movie styles and iconography that is culturally familiar, is carried over from the international (mostly Italian) reimagining of “The Old West” (“Wild West,” etc.), which Sergio Leone carved out a territory and name as the “King” of.

The Cinematic stylization which presents as influenced by “Western” (i.e. “Cowboys,” and 19th century post-Civil War era “Frontier” America locations), derives entirely from that “school” and its 

There was, however, underlying those productions, an incredible amount of East - West exchange beginning from Akira Kurosawa and the influence (and even direct adaptation) of older American Westerns (John Ford being a particular standout), transplanted from Cowboy to Samurai. That exchange was reciprocated with Leone doing likewise (from Kurosawa in particular) as influence (and even direct adaptation) from Old Édo to Old West (shooting mostly in Italy and Spain). The influence of those films over El Topo (in particular) and a rather vaguely defined sub-genre of the “Acid Western” is most pronounced (while the “classic westerns” are pretty much out of the picture ... so to speak). 

It was the 60’s cross influence of “Eastern” (e.g. “Samurai”) movies into the (mostly Italian) European Produced “Westerns,” that fueled an even further reciprocation with Takashi Miiki’s direct adaptation of Sergio Corbucci’s 1966 “Django” (which drew heavily from Kurosawa’s Yojimbo) into Sukiaki Western Django (shot entirely in Japanese, save for Quinten Tarantino’s cameo dialogue).

if there is any single term that can most inclusively sum up what has been shown of The Duviri Paradox, it’s “CINEMATIC.”

To call it a “trailer” would (obviously) be quite far from correct. To presume that it is actually showing anything which will occur within Warframe, would be terribly unrealistic (in that it would mean that whom we are seeing in the “Cinematic” will be a NPC to whom we have not yet been introduced).

UNLIKE the new “Trailer/Cinematic Intro” -

 

(and its [functionally] VERY SIMILAR predecessor, that had approximately it’s first half incorporated into the game itself, along with a massive structural reworking, reorganization and “FRAMING” of existing, newly added, and newly developing “content” of the entire game, back in 2016),

 

which shows “content” slated to serve as introductory cinematics to the game, within the gameplay “environment*” (or “in-game”) early next year. the Duviri Paradox Cinematic does not.

It pretty well assures that what is seen in terms of the “Cinematic Content” will NOT be seen (in terms of its Cinematic “Content”) within the context of Warframe.

But, if it is not showing something that we will see happen “in-game,” then what’s the point of making it?

Why show us that, if it’s not something which is going to actually happen, just like that, when we play the game?

Why are we all going to have to be a guy with facial hair, wearing a mask, and go through everything that was just shown?

How come we don’t get to pick what our gender will be, and script out what will happen for ourselves?

Now that we’ve seen this, why the hell would we want to try to play through it “in-game,” just to make it do the same thing?

(Isn’t that really pretty backwards-thinking of DE, to basically force us to do the same thing that you had to do to play those Laser Disc Arcade Games back in the 80’s, where they just chopped up an animated movie, and demanded that you press just the right button at just the right moment, to represent some “right” action, in order to just keep watching the movie?)

Well, there is  one reply, that will sufficiently address all of those (and countless similar) questions, without answering any of them:

”Grow UP!”

It’s a Cinematic that uses a Visual Narrative to showcase some of the things that will be seen in (“what we’re not going to show you ... the new ‘Open World,’”) part of the game which is in active development. It is something which was anticipated, due to it having become known already that DE was working on a next “Open World”-Type of expansion, with a Place Holder Name “The Plains of Duviri,” and which they made a special point of saying they would not be showing us (well, okay, it was Steve Sinclair who actually said it, but it’s the same difference).

And so Steve, rather slyly, pulled a surprise by telling a sort of “half-truth.” They did not show the next “Open World,” (exactly), but rather they made a Cinematic using some of the assets and content, providing a tease of what is being worked on will look and feel like, without really “giving anything away” about it. 

It does not “show” the new part of the game that is being worked on, in terms of where, when, what, how it will be, or work, or what will happen, how it will be played, who or what any characters or their likenesses are supposed to be. It delivers a gist impression. A lot can be gleaned from that, as it is visually (and audibly) very enriched. There is practically nothing which it shows that has ever been seen in Warframe before, yet the likenesses to both things familiar from Warframe and non in-game experience are enormously abundant. The imagery is emphatically DREAM LIKE, as is the visual narrative. Heavily entrenched in symbolism.

Apparently it is an environment that is governed far more by the sorts of “mechanics” or “theory” underlying “dream Logic,” or “Surrealism,” than by anything that is more familiar to the sense of realism (hyperbolic as it is) guiding how Warframe works in a way that is similar enough to ordinary, “real world” experience. 

The implications made by the way the Cinematic was framed, when it was first shown, are that (unlike the previous two “Open World” Type environments), this one will be reliant upon a rather advanced level of prerequisite in-game experience (i.e. completion of The War Within Quest at the bare minimum).

 Another extraneous piece of framing information that was (of course, deliberately) included during the “set-up” for the first showing of the DP Cinematic, was delivered via the Cephalon NPC (being used for development builds of the Railjack system in the Empyrean Expansion), referencing a “FIFTH dimension,” which Void Storms tear through (or into).

The prevailing Four Dimensions are The Void, The Origin System, The Fold, and the world that is outside of Warframe’s “Game Universe.” The New environment is VERY strongly presented as a “Through The Looking Glass” type of realm. What John Dee would have described in terms of “a place where the verities become manifest.” Where the persistently immaterial substance which we (as Players/Tenno) actually get to see as “The Void,” is enormously inverted.

(We can see The Void, via a sort of phenomenology which is just automatically granted, whereas other NPCs just see the unfathomably deep darkness of infinitely distant space).  

Of course there is a peculiar sort of reaction that occurs when things that very mysterious and little known are revealed, wherein players will tend to sort of swap their own poverty of knowledge in relation to the developers abundance (since they are thoroughly entrenched in actually making this, and deeply invested in having to make it work). So where we know very little, it is because they have not told us much of anything about it. So it gets somehow assumed that they know even less, and are thus, somehow malleable to instantly creating whatever players (believe that they) want or don’t want. 

As an illustration, taken directly from this forum thread:

”I somewhat assume the things in the paradox will be nightmarish versions of other beings.  So over time things got stuck in or consumed by the void.

The paradox is likely an alternate reality of the void.  The character which seems to be a older powerless tenno.  Is probably a alternate us that didn't make it out of the void.

Perhaps the 2 versions of us will unite as one more powerful being at the end of a quest chain. 

Thus the tenno creator engine could get a complete overhaul.  Giving players much more creaative freedom.  And making operater mode more useful for gameplay.”

A “Tenno Creator Engine?”

”Grow up!”

I guess I’m practically the opposite. I see and saw the Cinematic and just feel this fantastic sense of fulfillment. That it is a beautiful whole unto itself. Something that could stand its own ground, without needing to have any relational dependency upon anything else. That what is there can just as well fulfill the entirety of a work, which concludes with revealing its title, as it can a prelude to something more to come, or reliant upon something else which frames a context. 

Maybe being able to appreciate the DP Cinematic as something whole, has some fundamental relation to what growing up is really about. 

I have only ever pressed the question of what the actual paradox is, as a rhetorical device, in response to those who look to discard any relevance in that title, and go right on into trying to say what they do and don’t want from it, formatted in a way that they believe theories are presented.

I had just noticed a YouTube video having been posted (when going to retrieve the links to the Cinematic Intro/Trailers) with a title asking, “What is the Paradox, exactly?”

Look, if it has been disclosed, then there would be little point to making a whole video just to try to find out from somebody. Right now, it is not something that has been made known. 

I don’t need to watch a video (that is even longer than the Cinematic which it is related to) to figure out how or when to guess or ask what.

If any answer will do, then it can just as well make do with what I left in the comments box as it can with whatever constitutes the “content” of the video.

 

There,

in The Origin System,

what lies in wait to be discovered is that

“This is what you are, (a Tenno),”

but it is not who you are,

while what lies in wait to be discovered,

in a FIFTH dimension,

is that “This is who you are,”

but it is not what you are.

 

How is that for a Paradox?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

 

You have to simplify and pull back a bit once you’ve delved into high concept, even going so far as to muse on the offering as an isolated, uniquely artistic expression.

The sum of it’s parts may be unique but it’s DNA is not.  Art does not exist in a vacuum.

DE uses trailers to suggest “nuts and bolts” game design and gameplay that is coming.

PoE and Fortuna are “unique” places but they are open-world DNA infused into classic Looter-shooter Warframe.

We know, essentially, what Empyrean is going to be.

The Duviri Paradox CLEARLY suggests a Wild Western-Style voyage.  You can mention Kirosawa and Sphagetti Westerns and all the influences that came to create the pop-culture Western as we know it.  You can mention additional influences such as Well’s Time Machine And others but ultimately the cinematic is about a grizzled-looking character who looks nearly identical to Red Dead Redemption’s main character who uses a shotgun to solve a conflict on the open plains and rides off on a horse with appropriately themed music.

The giant transport flying past in the beginning heavily suggests a steam train heading towards the troubled border-town (The crashed Zariman).

The paradox is probably a simple story explanation as to why we are getting the game-design DNA equivalent of:

Open World + Warframe + Video Game Western with a normal adult main character  (one that can’t use space magic or Space Ninja suits, ie Void powers and must rely on six-shooters and...shotguns).

Clearly DE is delving into the Western genre with their own unique take on it within the Tennoverse pantheon.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-01 at 4:47 AM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You have to simplify and pull back a bit once you’ve delved into high concept, even going so far as to muse on the offering as an isolated, uniquely artistic expression.

The sum of it’s parts may be unique but it’s DNA is not.  Art does not exist in a vacuum.

DE uses trailers to suggest “nuts and bolts” game design and gameplay that is coming.

PoE and Fortuna are “unique” places but they are open-world DNA infused into classic Looter-shooter Warframe.

We know, essentially, what Empyrean is going to be.

The Duviri Paradox CLEARLY suggests a Wild Western-Style voyage.  You can mention Kirosawa and Sphagetti Westerns and all the influences that came to create the pop-culture Western as we know it.  You can mention additional influences such as Well’s Time Machine And others but ultimately the cinematic is about a grizzled-looking character who looks nearly identical to Red Dead Redemption’s main character who uses a shotgun to solve a conflict on the open plains and rides off on a horse with appropriately themed music.

The giant transport flying past in the beginning heavily suggests a steam train heading towards the troubled border-town (The crashed Zariman).

The paradox is probably a simple story explanation as to why we are getting the game-design DNA equivalent of:

Open World + Warframe + Video Game Western with a normal adult main character  (one that can’t use space magic or Space Ninja suits, ie Void powers and must rely on six-shooters and...shotguns).

Clearly DE is delving into the Western genre with their own unique take on it within the Tennoverse pantheon.

 

As far a clearly suggesting a Wild West Style Voyage, play the Cinematic without the Sound.

(Do the ears see a Wild West Type pattern  more than the eyes?) 

As far as the DNA goes, enough uniquely created (metaphorical) chromosomes have already been invented and BRED into the matrix of ongoing development as to really extend beyond the mere metaphorical, crossing the realm of analogy, and verging on

a. potential resolution into a revelation concerning the expansion of “mechanics” being created for the continuing processes of development in “virtualization”

b. a near-ingenious effort toward realizing self-satire by means of constructing a hypothetical argument ad absurdum*

c. hinting that given a very simplified reading of a particular proposition in quantum theory, which asserts that x exists in all possible states simultaneously but can only be viewed in one at any given interval, a single sample is inadequate in identifying the character of x **

d. a dilemma within speculative/“science” fiction, that the influence of existing fiction in media about “frontier” living *** fused with “Sci fi,” is so old by now (using as a starting point, the 1966 “high concept” pitched by Gene Roddenberry for a TV show described in terms of being like [the TV show] “Wagon Train” set in the future, in “Space, The Final Frontier”), that negotiating a means for yet another reiteration of the device (that does not instantly fail under the weight of cliche) will certainly become rapidly unsustainable as a property for further development (or “FUTURE EXPANSION,” in the parlance of game development).

”Exploring the final frontier is one thing. Making a home there is another ...”

https://www.newsweek.com/wagon-train-stars-410030

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Wagon_Train_to_the_Stars

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WagonTrainToTheStars

Barring an [effective] effort being made to tie the Duviri [expansion] in with implications inherent to the mysteriously handled, (and largely veiled) means of transportation by “Solar Rails” within the “Tennoverse,” forming a prefacing dimension in pretext, the development of a “major expansion” based on a groundwork of a “Wild West Style Voyage,” would present as serving little more than a mere demonstration of how a “recipe for disaster” (as provided by “The Ninja”) is cooked.

Perhaps the nearest thing to a certainty that could be assumed from the Duviri Paradox Cinematic is (arguably), that the revelation of how the Duviri Paradox becomes characterized and/or defined will serve as a prerequisite to accessing the territory. 

While the actual “territory” (in development, for the “future expansion”) has yet to be confirmed (by name), it seems doubtful (though not impossible) that it will be called “The Duviri Paradox,” while it most certainly will not carry over the place holder name, “The Plains of Duviri,” by which it had become known about being in development prior to the cleverly A/V Switched Cinematic “Reveal” during Tennocon ‘19, (which despite the topicality of the content, was maintained in line with what had been announced in terms of what “we [DE] are not going to show you,” being the next “Open World”).

 

On the other hand, the prospects for longevity in developing content by mining (or resourcing) an already deeply enriched, and hardly (if ever) tapped well for fertile premise material (drawn from fiction in Cinema) can be easily recognized within the obscure “sub-genre” of the “Acid Western” alone (wherein the raiding of any “Western” fiction “content” is “fair game,” but self-identification is “genealogically removed” from the “DNA” of the “Western” by declaration of its “founding father” as being “not a Western,” is explicit).

The term "Acid Western" was coined by film critic Pauline Kael in a review of Alejandro Jodorowsky's film El Topo, published in the November 1971 issue of The New Yorker.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Western

 

* Ask Shinichirō Watanabe, ask Cowboy BeBop, ask yourself, ask your mom, ask DNA.
 

**  SEAGOON: Dear listeners: let me explain. This was terrible news, you understand. Gina was one of a pair of Tuscan salami's which were given to Britain by Italy and were the sole breeders of the rare Tuscan-type sandwich salami as used in all espresso bars and the well-known hors d'oeuvres. This is known to you all, I understand, but, Greenslade, let John Snagge explain. Put the record on. 

(BBC Announcer) John SNAGGE: Last night, over a sleepy Houndsditch, a new and secret missile of terrifying potentiality was successfully tested. It is the so-called HOT DOG. A pre-heated salami fitted with a warhead. 

SEAGOON: Yes, dear listeners, and strange to relate, these fiendish weapons were not manufactured, but BREAD in captivity.   

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbsurdityAscendant

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheGoonShow

http://www.thegoonshow.net/scripts_show.asp?title=s06e23_ the_great_tuscan_salami_scandal

 

*** i.e. the “Western Expansion,” which in fiction is comprised, by majority, of “Westerns,” and is most fundamentally identified in a situational framework defined by the social & cultural impact being made by the completion of the first Transcontinental Railroad to establish rapid transportation over land between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans during the latter half of the 19th century, exponentially escalating the growth rate of the Industrial Revolution on a Global Scale.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

As far a clearly suggesting a Wild West Style Voyage, play the Cinematic without the Sound.

(Do the ears see a Wild West Type pattern  more than the eyes?) 

As far as the DNA goes, enough uniquely created (metaphorical) chromosomes have already been invented and BRED into the matrix of ongoing development as to really extend beyond the mere metaphorical, crossing the realm of analogy, and verging on

a. potential resolution into a revelation concerning the expansion of “mechanics” being created for the continuing processes of development in “virtualization”

b. a near-ingenious effort toward realizing self-satire by means of constructing a hypothetical argument ad absurdum*

c. hinting that given a very simplified reading of a particular proposition in quantum theory, which asserts that x exists in all possible states simultaneously but can only be viewed in one at any given interval, a single sample is inadequate in identifying the character of x **

d. a dilemma within speculative/“science” fiction, that the influence of existing fiction in media about “frontier” living *** fused with “Sci fi,” is so old by now (using as a starting point, the 1966 “high concept” pitched by Gene Roddenberry for a TV show described in terms of being like [the TV show] “Wagon Train” set in the future, in “Space, The Final Frontier”), that negotiating a means for yet another reiteration of the device (that does not instantly fail under the weight of cliche) will certainly become rapidly unsustainable as a property for further development (or “FUTURE EXPANSION,” in the parlance of game development).

”Exploring the final frontier is one thing. Making a home there is another ...”

https://www.newsweek.com/wagon-train-stars-410030

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Wagon_Train_to_the_Stars

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WagonTrainToTheStars

Barring an [effective] effort being made to tie the Duviri [expansion] in with implications inherent to the mysteriously handled, (and largely veiled) means of transportation by “Solar Rails” within the “Tennoverse,” forming a prefacing dimension in pretext, the development of a “major expansion” based on a groundwork of a “Wild West Style Voyage,” would present as serving little more than a mere demonstration of how a “recipe for disaster” (as provided by “The Ninja”) is cooked.

Perhaps the nearest thing to a certainty that could be assumed from the Duviri Paradox Cinematic is (arguably), that the revelation of how the Duviri Paradox becomes characterized and/or defined will serve as a prerequisite to accessing the territory. 

While the actual “territory” (in development, for the “future expansion”) has yet to be confirmed (by name), it seems doubtful (though not impossible) that it will be called “The Duviri Paradox,” while it most certainly will not carry over the place holder name, “The Plains of Duviri,” by which it had become known about being in development prior to the cleverly A/V Switched Cinematic “Reveal” during Tennocon ‘19, (which despite the topicality of the content, was maintained in line with what had been announced in terms of what “we [DE] are not going to show you,” being the next “Open World”).

 

On the other hand, the prospects for longevity in developing content by mining (or resourcing) an already deeply enriched, and hardly (if ever) tapped well for fertile premise material (drawn from fiction in Cinema) can be easily recognized within the obscure “sub-genre” of the “Acid Western” alone (wherein the raiding of any “Western” fiction “content” is “fair game,” but self-identification is “genealogically removed” from the “DNA” of the “Western” by declaration of its “founding father” as being “not a Western.” 

The term "Acid Western" was coined by film critic Pauline Kael in a review of Alejandro Jodorowsky's film El Topo, published in the November 1971 issue of The New Yorker.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Western

 

* Ask Shinichirō Watanabe, ask Cowboy BeBop, ask yourself, ask your mom, ask DNA.
 

**  SEAGOON: Dear listeners: let me explain. This was terrible news, you understand. Gina was one of a pair of Tuscan salami's which were given to Britain by Italy and were the sole breeders of the rare Tuscan-type sandwich salami as used in all espresso bars and the well-known hors d'oeuvres. This is known to you all, I understand, but, Greenslade, let John Snagge explain. Put the record on. 

(BBC Announcer) John SNAGGE: Last night, over a sleepy Houndsditch, a new and secret missile of terrifying potentiality was successfully tested. It is the so-called HOT DOG. A pre-heated salami fitted with a warhead. 

SEAGOON: Yes, dear listeners, and strange to relate, these fiendish weapons were not manufactured, but BREAD in captivity.   

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbsurdityAscendant

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheGoonShow

http://www.thegoonshow.net/scripts_show.asp?title=s06e23_ the_great_tuscan_salami_scandal

 

*** i.e. the “Western Expansion,” which in fiction is comprised, by majority, of “Westerns,” and is most fundamentally identified in a situational framework defined by the social & cultural impact being made by the completion of the first Transcontinental Railroad to establish rapid transportation over land between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans during the latter half of the 19th century, exponentially escalating the growth rate of the Industrial Revolution on a Global Scale.

 

 

While your post is thought provoking and in-depth, you have to look at DE’s track record and strategy for success. 

The Unique art design, game design, and lore/story components of Warframe will be brought into DP.

DE is likely going to expand and improve on Operator options and gameplay.

But our little Rick Hunter (Operator) clearly isn’t able to use protoculture (Void energy via transference) to pilot his Mecha (Warframe) and clearly isn’t fighting Zentradi (Grineer).

He’s a normal, weathered middle-aged man on the open plains that must use wit, a quick trigger finger, a shotgun, and a horse to survive his first encounter.

Put a hat on him and he looks shockingly similar to Red Dead Redemption’s main character.

Warframe expanded into Open world from Looter-shooter because it was proven and established game design that could be monetized.

And now it looks like it will expand into the Survival-Western (The Last of Us, Red Dead Redemption)...proven and established game design that they can monetize by improving Operator functionality with established programming and content; namely primary, secondary, and melee weapons already used by Warframes (hence the Tigris).

Your “grown-up” Operator isn’t just symbolically growing up...he’s growing up in the game design sense and his rig might literally be that of his Warframe.  There is literally evidence of being able to stretch your Operator into Warframe size and holding weapons.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...