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Directed Randomness As A Possible Rng Fix In The Void


Lothlaine
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With update 10, the void got even more cluttered. I think every player who has spent a significant amount of time there knows the feeling of finishing 20 runs and seeing that you have 14 of x and 6 of y and not a single one of the pieces you want. 

I don't want to advocate that we should be able to select void rewards, or that everything should be given to us with a minimum of farming (aka instant gratification), but I think that most players have no love for eternally receiving frost prime helms, dakra handles, mag prime helms, etc.

Hopefully the recent patch 10.1.0 fixed this problem for the near future, but what happens when they add more prime weapons and systems? Eventually there will just be too much stuff in the Void, and even if they create a new area with different rewards the same problem will again happen in time. 

Therefor, what I propose is a system of directed randomness (thanks -Kittens- for explaining the difference) that rewards players who are willing to do some farming without just giving things away.

Let's say void mission X has 5 rewards.
One and Two drop with a 30% chance
Three and Four drop with a 19% chance
Five has a 2% drop chance.

Now let's say player Y runs this mission 10 times. Each time he runs it he'll get a certain reward. Each time he gets that reward, the chance for that reward to drop again until the next daily reset drops by a certain percentage and that percentage drop is added evenly to the other rewards. So say player Y has gotten Drop 1 twice, in his 3rd run the drops may look more like this-

Drop 1- 30% - 5% (2.5% per drop) = 25%
Drop 2- 30% +1.25% =                      31.25%
Drop 3- 19% +1.25% =                      20.25%
Drop 4- 19% +1.25% =                      20.25%
Drop 5- 2% +1.25% =                        3.25%

Then, when Player Y has finished his 6th run let's say he's been a little unlucky. Player Y has gotten Drop 1 5 times and Drop 3 once. Now the drops may look like this in run 7-
Drop 1- 30% -10% (because for this example 10% is the max decrease with 2.5% per drop) + .625% = 20.625%
Drop 2- 30% +3.125% =                    33.125%
Drop 3- 19% +2.5% - 2.5% =            19%
Drop 4- 19% +3.125% =                    22.125%
Drop 5- 2% +3.125% =                      5.125%

And so on.

As you can see, even if you get Drops 1, 2, 3, and 4 four times each the highest drop rate of the rare drop 5 only goes to 12%- not huge, but a marked improvement over 2%. I feel like this would offer an incentive for a reasonable amount of grind while still keeping with the ideals of having some things be rare.

The numbers I used for a % drop limit and % drop per time you get the same item, as well as the drop rates of these theoretical items were drawn out of thin air but I think a game like warframe, where we only really need to get most parts once lends itself to a system like this. An additional problem would be that rewards would have to be individualized rather than given to the whole group but I don't think (key word think) that that would be a huge problem.

Anyway, this is just something that occurred to me. If people tear it apart or think they have a better idea on how to go about it, that's cool. Honestly I'd just like to know what people think.

Edit- further explanation of intent.

 

I don't like grind.

But since DE is definitely taking the stance of, "our game is going to have some grind", I'm floating this as a way to reward players for their grind.

Instead of just saying- "Oh, you've done 50 survival missions without getting a single mag prime systems today? Tough luck."

 It would be something that says, "hey, you were willing to put in a lot of effort today to get something from this. In case you haven't, we're gonna give you a better chance if you're willing to run it some more."

This wouldn't be something that says- do x runs, guarantee this as a drop. It doesn't take away the grind, but it rewards players for at least being willing to try.

Edited by Lothlaine
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With update 10, the void got even more cluttered. I think every player who has spent a significant amount of time there knows the feeling of finishing 20 runs and seeing that you have 14 of x and 6 of y and not a single one of the pieces you want. 

I don't want to advocate that we should be able to select void rewards, or that everything should be given to us with a minimum of farming (aka instant gratification), but I think that most players have no love for eternally receiving frost prime helms, dakra handles, mag prime helms, etc.

Hopefully the recent patch 10.1.0 fixed this problem for the near future, but what happens when they add more prime weapons and systems? Eventually there will just be too much stuff in the Void, and even if they create a new area with different rewards the same problem will again happen in time. 

Therefor, what I propose is a system of diminishing returns that rewards players who are willing to do some farming without just giving things away.

Let's say void mission X has 5 rewards.

One and Two drop with a 30% chance

Three and Four drop with a 19% chance

Five has a 2% drop chance.

Now let's say player Y runs this mission 10 times. Each time he runs it he'll get a certain reward. Each time he gets that reward, the chance for that reward to drop again until the next daily reset drops by a certain percentage and that percentage drop is added evenly to the other rewards. So say player Y has gotten Drop 1 twice, in his 3rd run the drops may look more like this-

Drop 1- 30% - 5% (2.5% per drop) = 25%

Drop 2- 30% +1.25% =                      31.25%

Drop 3- 19% +1.25% =                      20.25%

Drop 4- 19% +1.25% =                      20.25%

Drop 5- 2% +1.25% =                        3.25%

Then, when Player Y has finished his 6th run let's say he's been a little unlucky. Player Y has gotten Drop 1 5 times and Drop 3 once. Now the drops may look like this in run 7-

Drop 1- 30% -10% (because for this example 10% is the max decrease with 2.5% per drop) + .625% = 20.625%

Drop 2- 30% +3.125% =                    33.125%

Drop 3- 19% +2.5% - 2.5% =            19%

Drop 4- 19% +3.125% =                    22.125%

Drop 5- 2% +3.125% =                      5.125%

And so on.

As you can see, even if you get Drops 1, 2, 3, and 4 four times each the highest drop rate of the rare drop 5 only goes to 12%- not huge, but a marked improvement over 2%. I feel like this would offer an incentive for a reasonable amount of grind while still keeping with the ideals of having some things be rare.

The numbers I used for a % drop limit and % drop per time you get the same item, as well as the drop rates of these theoretical items were drawn out of thin air but I think a game like warframe, where we only really need to get most parts once lends itself to a system like this. An additional problem would be that rewards would have to be individualized rather than given to the whole group but I don't think (key word think) that that would be a huge problem.

Anyway, this is just something that occurred to me. If people tear it apart or think they have a better idea on how to go about it, that's cool. Honestly I'd just like to know what people think.

Diminishing Returns, one of the few ways to make RNG even more RNG through simply playing the game. This is an awful idea and you're awful for even suggesting it.
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Diminishing Returns, one of the few ways to make RNG even more RNG through simply playing the game. This is an awful idea and you're awful for even suggesting it.

wait... wut?

 

as far as i can tell, op is saying that when you get something, the chance of getting that item lowers.

as such, the other items (that you dont have) now have a better chance of dropping.

so instead of 70 runs to get something, you would only need 40-50.

 

though i would have to say that i only think this kind of system would/should work on BPs.

Edited by alchemistjkt
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wait... wut?

 

as far as i can tell, op is saying that when you get something, the chance of getting that item lowers.

as such, the other items (that you dont have) now have a better chance of dropping.

so instead of 70 runs to get something, you would only need 40-50.

Yup. It's actually slightly less RNG. This concept of Diminishing Returns is a way of rewarding people for being willing to put in time to the game without breaking the core mechanics.

Edited by Lothlaine
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Diminishing returns is already bad enough with defensive mods.

 

Diminishing returns is fine as law of real life, not so much for scifi nernja vidya gaems.

 

You're using the term incorrectly btw.

 

What you're asking for is directed randomness, wherein the RNG is narrowed per positive iteration until whatever goal is met, wherein it resets with whatever new goal range is set.

 

"Diminishing Returns" is what DE and fanbase are experiencing via grind fatigue/lack of modal enemies thinning the user base.

Edited by -Kittens-
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Diminishing returns is already bad enough with defensive mods.

 

Diminishing returns is fine as law of real life.

 

You're using the term incorrectly btw.

 

What you're asking for is directed randomness, wherein the RNG is narrowed per positive iteration until whatever goal is met, wherein it resets with whatever new goal range is set.

 

"Diminishing Returns" is what DE and fanbase are experiencing via grind fatigue/lack of modal enemies thinning the user base.

Ah, thanks for the info. I'd change the convo topic but I'm not sure I could.

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Ah, thanks for the info. I'd change the convo topic but I'm not sure I could.

 

You can, just edit your first post and go to more options, then change the title.

 

I can see some problems with your system, how would you define what drops when 2 people run together and they're looking for different items? Person A wants a Mag prime system and has his RNG set to a high%, whereas the other guy is looking for something else and has gotten multiple Mag prime systems already and his RNG% is ridiculously low for that item.

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You can, just edit your first post and go to more options, then change the title.

 

I can see some problems with your system, how would you define what drops when 2 people run together and they're looking for different items? Person A wants a Mag prime system and has his RNG set to a high%, whereas the other guy is looking for something else and has gotten multiple Mag prime systems already and his RNG% is ridiculously low for that item.

Sorry if you missed that, it was near the bottom and buried in a paragraph. This kind of system would require people to have separate drop tables. So it would no longer be a case of each player receiving the same item. Instead each player would receive an item according to their own table and then the table would be adjusted accordingly. That way drop chances wouldn't interfere with each other and people wouldn't be able to abuse the system by partying with someone who'd run a mission 20 times that day and automatically get their benefits.

Edit- forgot to say thanks for the how to. Thanks :)

Edited by Lothlaine
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Sorry if you missed that, it was near the bottom and buried in a paragraph. This kind of system would require people to have separate drop tables. So it would no longer be a case of each player receiving the same item. Instead each player would receive an item according to their own table and then the table would be adjusted accordingly. That way drop chances wouldn't interfere with each other and people wouldn't be able to abuse the system by partying with someone who'd run a mission 20 times that day and automatically get their benefits.

Edit- forgot to say thanks for the how to. Thanks :)

 

Personal loot sure has its good and bad sides, good is that you'd get what you want, but bad that you might get something that your friend wants and your friend gets what you wanted.

 

Then again, trading would fix this problem straight away. Having personal loot but a possibility to swap the rewards after you finished, 4 people runs would actually get 4 chances at the stuff you want.

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Personal loot sure has its good and bad sides, good is that you'd get what you want, but bad that you might get something that your friend wants and your friend gets what you wanted.

 

Then again, trading would fix this problem straight away. Having personal loot but a possibility to swap the rewards after you finished, 4 people runs would actually get 4 chances at the stuff you want.

That would be nice. The thing with trading that troubles me is how they're going to implement it (if they ever do) and what the basis is going to be...

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