Who else is excited the single viper...

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

got a riven nerf. That's pretty funny to me and shows just how stupid the popularity system is. Let's nerf a riven disposition on a newbie weapon that said newbies probably dont have a riven for anyway. It's also funny that stuff like the zylok and brakk keep getting buffs because they are 'unpopular' when in reality just not a lot of people actually have those guns.

[trst]

Except it still has a very high disposition.

The nerf to it only amounts to about a 10-20% drop in some stats depending on the roll.

 

When Rivens become mandatory to progression come back and complain about it.

[KnossosTNC]

I thought they did away with the popularity-based system already?

I suppose they thought the Viper Wraith was secretly OP or something.

Edited July 7, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

12 minutes ago, trst said:

Except it still has a very high disposition.

The nerf to it only amounts to about a 10-20% drop in some stats depending on the roll.

 

When Rivens become mandatory to progression come back and complain about it.

It's the concept of it all. It has been nerfed twice. The single viper. Let that sink in as to how asinine that is.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

It's the concept of it all. It has been nerfed twice. The single viper. Let that sink in as to how asinine that is.

the viper itself has not been nerfed merely the riven disposition and the single viper wraith i can see a lot of people using due to not being too bad and having a syndicate mod for it.

[Nesodos]

9 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

I thought they did away with the popularity-based system already?

I suppose they thought the Viper Wraith was secretly OP or something.

I used viper wraith with a godlike (imo) riven for quite a while but came to the conclusion that most meta secondaries without rivens are still stronger -.-

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

the viper itself has not been nerfed merely the riven disposition and the single viper wraith i can see a lot of people using due to not being too bad and having a syndicate mod for it.

I have never seen anyone use it, aside from the week baro brought the single viper wraith and people were leveling it at hydron. Didnt feel the need to specify I was talking about the riven since it was in the topic post. The point of Rivens is to make really bad weapons better, yet they are nerfing Rivens on abysmal weapons.

[trst]

13 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

I thought they did away with the popularity-based system already?

I suppose they thought the Viper Wraith was secretly OP or something.

They're using both popularity and an "internal ranking" system to determine the absolute minimum disposition a specific weapon can reach. The two specific examples we've been given of this are the Khom and Soma, both of which are very high popularity but the Khom is at it's minimum while the Soma is actually getting buffed.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Just now, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

I have never seen anyone use it, aside from the week baro brought the single viper wraith and people were leveling it at hydron. Didnt feel the need to specify I was talking about the riven since it was in the topic post. The point of Rivens is to make really bad weapons better, yet they are nerfing Rivens on abysmal weapons.

nerfing a riven is very different from nerfing  the weapons. and just because you aren't seeing use doens't mean it isnt' getting used all the time likely a lot of it is newer players but the wraith variant can be pretty good when used right. and i still don't see the whole issue in the first p;lace. a riven got nerfed slightly... like really that's not gonna make or break the weapon.

 

honestly this reminds me of the other post where soemoen was just mad they nerfed their vectis riven at this point i wager you're using one and are just upset.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

Just now, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

nerfing a riven is very different from nerfing  the weapons. and just because you aren't seeing use doens't mean it isnt' getting used all the time likely a lot of it is newer players but the wraith variant can be pretty good when used right. and i still don't see the whole issue in the first p;lace. a riven got nerfed slightly... like really that's not gonna make or break the weapon.

 

honestly this reminds me of the other post where soemoen was just mad they nerfed their vectis riven at this point i wager you're using one and are just upset.

Again the popularity thing is dumb then. If new players are using a weapon which is designed for early starchart then why are they nerfing the riven? No I dont use the viper at all, but what I'm saying is the weakest weapon in the game had its riven disposition nerfed twice. If you are too blind to see that something is wrong with that, then you are clearly a fanboy and DE can do no wrong in your eyes.

[Redeminem]

Welcome to warframe. I have been seeing it for years the dev team grow lazier and lazier. This is one of the laziest dev teams ive ever witnessed in the gaming community. Instead of playing and assessing the numbers themselves on weapons they just take whatever is most used and nerf it. We should all pick the worst weapon in the game and spam it so they stop touching weapons barey holding on. Look at the tiberon. How many more times do you want to nerf it? Just make everything unusable at this point I dont even wanna play the damn game. Doesn't even feel good to roll a good riven anymore cause DE's gonna come into your acc and change the stats with their canadian bacon eating fingers. 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 minutes ago, Redeminem said:

Welcome to warframe. I have been seeing it for years the dev team grow lazier and lazier. This is one of the laziest dev teams ive ever witnessed in the gaming community. Instead of playing and assessing the numbers themselves on weapons they just take whatever is most used and nerf it. We should all pick the worst weapon in the game and spam it so they stop touching weapons barey holding on. Look at the tiberon. How many more times do you want to nerf it? Just make everything unusable at this point I dont even wanna play the damn game. Doesn't even feel good to roll a good riven anymore cause DE's gonna come into your acc and change the stats with their canadian bacon eating fingers. 

The problem I have is that they release a variant of a weapon (prime, vandal, wraith, prisma, mara) and the weapon gets used a lot because it's new and then the riven gets nerfed. Like the glaxion, opticor, and twin gremlins. While the normal opticor is good, the twin gremlins and glaxion are pretty bad if you dont have the prisma and vandal version respectively, so if you have a riven for them, but not the upgraded version then I guess too bad for you.

[Tiltskillet]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

The problem I have is that they release a variant of a weapon (prime, vandal, wraith, prisma, mara) and the weapon gets used a lot because it's new and then the riven gets nerfed. Like the glaxion, opticor, and twin gremlins. While the normal opticor is good, the twin gremlins and glaxion are pretty bad if you dont have the prisma and vandal version respectively, so if you have a riven for them, but not the upgraded version then I guess too bad for you.

It's really unfortunate they can't or won't give variants of a weapon separate dispositions.

Edit: although one irony is, the current system benefits veterans, and they already seem to be the source of most of the rage.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Tiltskillet

[Redeminem]

But I can almost gaurentee this thought has never crossed one of DE's brainstorm... if they have any. 

[trst]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

The problem I have is that they release a variant of a weapon (prime, vandal, wraith, prisma, mara) and the weapon gets used a lot because it's new and then the riven gets nerfed. Like the glaxion, opticor, and twin gremlins. While the normal opticor is good, the twin gremlins and glaxion are pretty bad if you dont have the prisma and vandal version respectively, so if you have a riven for them, but not the upgraded version then I guess too bad for you.

Then get the upgraded version? They're all direct upgrades from their vanilla counterparts so there is no reason to ever not try and get them.

And if someone missed them from their events then just wait until they get added to a different one or Baro.

[Renegade343]

1 minute ago, trst said:

Then get the upgraded version? They're all direct upgrades from their vanilla counterparts so there is no reason to ever not try and get them.

And if someone missed them from their events then just wait until they get added to a different one or Baro.

When DE said that they want Rivens to make less used weapons be used more, deciding that the usage of all variants of said weapons be aggregated into a single usage value rather than letting them be separate does defeat the idea a bit.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 minute ago, Renegade343 said:

When DE said that they want Rivens to make less used weapons be used more, deciding that the usage of all variants of said weapons be aggregated into a single usage value rather than letting them be separate does defeat the idea a bit.

That and then as soon as the weapon is used more its riven gets nerfed... so it literally goes against the very idea of what they were going for originally.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

That and then as soon as the weapon is used more its riven gets nerfed... so it literally goes against the very idea of what they were going for originally.

My guess is that it's not so much usage, but that a more powerful variant raises the weapon in their power ranking.  For example, the first strada dispo nerf was announced in the same patch strada prime was introduced--obviously before that release could affect usage.

Same effect really, but a little easier to understand.  Just a bad side-effect of variants and base weapons sharing the same disposition.

[trst]

1 hour ago, Renegade343 said:

When DE said that they want Rivens to make less used weapons be used more, deciding that the usage of all variants of said weapons be aggregated into a single usage value rather than letting them be separate does defeat the idea a bit.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

That and then as soon as the weapon is used more its riven gets nerfed... so it literally goes against the very idea of what they were going for originally.

And if an under used weapon gets used more because of a variant then they don't need Rivens to be better.

With the Viper specifically if we only had the default and no variants there might then be some validity to these complaints. But again their Rivens, even with the nerf, are still powerful Rivens.

[Renegade343]

Just now, trst said:

And if an under used weapon gets used more because of a variant then they don't need Rivens to be better.

My view is that the variant being used more is the variant being used more. I mean, sure, that means the weapon in general is being used more, but that does not necessarily translate to all variants being used more.

We can see that potential problem with weapons that have two or more upgrades under the current system, and as we start giving weapons more variants, that'll start to rear its ugly head.

[trst]

15 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

My view is that the variant being used more is the variant being used more. I mean, sure, that means the weapon in general is being used more, but that does not necessarily translate to all variants being used more.

We can see that potential problem with weapons that have two or more upgrades under the current system, and as we start giving weapons more variants, that'll start to rear its ugly head.

But as I stated earlier there is no reason to not try to get an upgraded Variant. This has been an established thing since we've first gotten Prime weapons; vanilla variants will all be discarded eventually for an upgraded copy.

Even for something like the Gorgon that has two additional variants you can just work for the better variant if it's considerably better than the other.

Edited July 7, 2019 by trst

[Renegade343]

4 minutes ago, trst said:

But as I stated earlier there is no reason to not try to get an upgraded Variant.

I suppose Vaulted items would be a nice barrier to not getting the upgraded variant for some time.

4 minutes ago, trst said:

The only thing this could cause issues with is weapons like the Gorgon which have two additional variants but at the same time if one variant is considerably better than the other when why not try to get it? 

I know Prisma Gorgon's better mainly because of crit (but there're other weapons that'll do the job better), but Gorgon Wraith's pretty neat for another status hitscan SAW (but again, there're other weapons that'll do the job better).

And here's the problem: If a weapon has two or more variants in an attempt to have side upgrades, disregarding whether the attempt's successful, having one Riven disposition fits all isn't the best way to go around giving it more usage to all variants.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 hour ago, trst said:

 

And if an under used weapon gets used more because of a variant then they don't need Rivens to be better.

With the Viper specifically if we only had the default and no variants there might then be some validity to these complaints. But again their Rivens, even with the nerf, are still powerful Rivens.

A viper wraith with the best riven possible would be worse than a no riven pyrana prime. 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

My guess is that it's not so much usage, but that a more powerful variant raises the weapon in their power ranking.  For example, the first strada dispo nerf was announced in the same patch strada prime was introduced--obviously before that release could affect usage.

Same effect really, but a little easier to understand.  Just a bad side-effect of variants and base weapons sharing the same disposition.

And stradavar just got another riven nerf after its prime... cant wait until my Zhuge riven gets nerfed...

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, trst said:

But as I stated earlier there is no reason to not try to get an upgraded Variant. This has been an established thing since we've first gotten Prime weapons; vanilla variants will all be discarded eventually for an upgraded copy.

 

Well, there's aesthetics.  For instance, if the base Akstilleto had even moderately higher disposition than the prime, I'd be pretty excited to riven it up.  Whereas now, I don't bother with Akstilleto rivens...

I'd respect the argument that that is more a problem with the cosmetic system, but there are also some variants that are upgrades--but not pure upgrades, or where something pleasing in the original is altered.  Probably the best example being Opticor versus Vandal, where the weapons are more like cousins than immediate family.

Then there's vaulting and mastery level.  Yes, neither of these permanently lock a player out of using a more powerful variant.  But does it really make sense in the meantime for that player's rivens to have lower potential due to the mere existence of those variants?

Admittedly, these are unusual cases.  But you didn't say there was "little reason" not to use the variant, you said "no reason". 😜