Empyrean Release Date?

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

3 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

Not that its necessarily a write-out of DE's schedule, but they changed their Twitter icon to the Empyrean-Lotus logo. 

So at least the social media management team is at a minimum prepping for it to release. 

Obviously, this could jumping the gun, or it just being a new logo for them to use to maintain interest after Tennocon.  Which could obviously be a mistake that'll lead to another hype train decay incident. 

That's the case, whatever the next update is they tend to update the profile icon on the social media in preparation for it. It's on both, Twitter and Facebook.

[TheMuslimGamerGB]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

I noticed something when rewatching the Empyrean footage from Tennocon 2019, specifically the Kuva Lich segment when it was dying, it gave a stat list before the final blow was dealt and most of the information was rather innocuous, but one thing stuck out to me.

The survival time of the Lich was listed as 72 days, now obviously this could just be how it was constructed for the point of illustration for the system, but it also holds another potential possibility.

It could be inferred that the build they were running that demo on has been up and running for at least 72 days, or a little more than 2 months, which could be a good sign that massive overhauls aren't happening at this point and they could be on the fine-tuning point of development.

 

It could mean that. However, I would have thought that the demo would have been rehearsed before the reveal. They could have numerous Kuva Lichs in operation.

Edited July 11, 2019 by TheMuslimGamerGB

[TheMuslimGamerGB]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Badger said:

i don't get why folks don't like the railjack's looks and speed, a lot of people are complaining that it looks too slow.

I am an avid Star Trek, Herbert, Niven/Pornelle and Asimov fan and possibly because of this I like the idea of slow naval-like engagements. I also think the ship looks pretty cool, too. I like it when ships don't look like ships from other franchises. 

That said, I wouldn't mind multiple ships (or a Sigma Prime or something like that) or even fighters (even though I'm pretty sure this is fulfilled by archwing)

Look the likelihood is that it will probably go down like this, if your down with archwing your probably like this and if your not then you won't.

[OniDax]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Badger said:

i don't get why folks don't like the railjack's looks and speed, a lot of people are complaining that it looks too slow.

I am an avid Star Trek, Herbert, Niven/Pornelle and Asimov fan and possibly because of this I like the idea of slow naval-like engagements. I also think the ship looks pretty cool, too. I like it when ships don't look like ships from other franchises. 

That said, I wouldn't mind multiple ships (or a Sigma Prime or something like that) or even fighters (even though I'm pretty sure this is fulfilled by archwing)

Because a lot of people aren't fans of slow space games and space ship simulators. Warframe isn't a simulator. It's a quite fast-paced game. Even if it slowed down slightly for more tactical gameplay, that's still faster than the crawl-pace of simulators. Something like Battlefront 2's space mode is more appropriate for Warframe's gameplay pace.

Also, no, archwings do not fulfill a fighter role. Not at all.

[Cephalon_Saryndipity]

1 minute ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Because a lot of people aren't fans of slow space games and space ship simulators. Warframe isn't a simulator. It's a quite fast-paced game. Even if it slowed down slightly for more tactical gameplay, that's still faster than the crawl-pace of simulators. Something like Battlefront 2's space mode is more appropriate for Warframe's gameplay pace.

Also, no, archwings do not fulfill a fighter role. Not at all.

I see what you're saying. So you'd prefer a faster-pace space battle. In all honesty it didn't seem very slow to me, more 'realistic' as it were (though how realistic you can get with non-newtonian physics...). 

But I do see archwings filling a fighter-like roll. At least, as far as the big ship having little friends dichotomy. And who know if this will bring an update to how they control as well. But yes, at the moment they are definitely not A-Wings. 

[DrakeWurrum]

9 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

First of all, not really?

As for Nightwave, its not much and 10 weeks is just a "guess" due to it can drag on much longer, if you seen the countless posts about Nightwave you'll understand why its not content, it's a excuse to log in and do tasks we already done before, to get shineys. (Mods and Cosmetics only)

3rd Orb Mother fight will be treated the same as the others are, Meta Farm it, get reward, never touch again. (repeat). Meele 3.0 is not for a while yet as they hit a roadblock with Railjack and New War and all Melee 3.0 is a change of a system, not a whole new content of things to do. We'll play with them, test them, provide feedback and go back to daily logins and be done.

So while they are "working on things" we'll still be waiting. I admit, I am a bit tried of the same post or form topic, but it's just the fact of truth, no content, no play, but we'll just have to see.

I have all respect for anyone working hard for content for us, but I still don't want to see a repeat of War Within and last year.

I never said Nightwave is content. I'm simply saying that, yes, we have a reason to log in and play the game. Even if it's not particularly interesting.

I'm also aware that Melee 3.0 won't be content. I'm simply saying it's something that they're working on. (Rebecca said they're getting back into it after Tennocon.)

I'm saying that people are being stupid with it because it's really... not worth getting emotional over. I want more content, too, but I'm still loving the game. Like I said, I get it. I do.

But this has always been the nature of Warframe. It's a bunch of grind, you hit a point where you've got NOTHING to do until some major updates come out, so... you step away. It's one of Warframe's best qualities: you're NOT punished for NOT playing.

34 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Because a lot of people aren't fans of slow space games and space ship simulators. Warframe isn't a simulator. It's a quite fast-paced game. Even if it slowed down slightly for more tactical gameplay, that's still faster than the crawl-pace of simulators. Something like Battlefront 2's space mode is more appropriate for Warframe's gameplay pace.

Also, no, archwings do not fulfill a fighter role. Not at all.

Yes. Archwings do fill that role. You believing otherwise means you are using Archwing wrong. You clearly haven't even tried to take full advantage of its extreme mobility. While they could stand to improve the controls, the "experimental controls" option in the UI allows for some crazy maneuvers, and it's raw speed makes you impossible to hit if you just keep yourself constantly moving (even Elytron's hunky butt is fast enough for that).

The Railjack itself is not meant to be a "fighter" craft, but more like a heavy gunship. The Archwings are meant for speed, mobility, and infiltration, while possessing less raw firepower. There's no reason whatsoever to make anything as small as a Star Wars TIE fighter when we have the Archwings, which simply allow for better maneuverability.

Steve has previously expressed his own frustration with the "feel" of Railjack in general, suggesting that he wants it to feel more like Robotech.

Edited July 11, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[White_Matter]

5 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

No, you are all wrong. see the other posts please. (Set/Nov is far too long)

 

 

Won't be out for a very long time, they are focusing in Railjack/New War

If you say so.

lol.

[OniDax]

22 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I never said Nightwave is content. I'm simply saying that, yes, we have a reason to log in and play the game. Even if it's not particularly interesting.

I'm also aware that Melee 3.0 won't be content. I'm simply saying it's something that they're working on. (Rebecca said they're getting back into it after Tennocon.)

I'm saying that people are being stupid with it because it's really... not worth getting emotional over. I want more content, too, but I'm still loving the game. Like I said, I get it. I do.

But this has always been the nature of Warframe. It's a bunch of grind, you hit a point where you've got NOTHING to do until some major updates come out, so... you step away. It's one of Warframe's best qualities: you're NOT punished for NOT playing.

Yes. Archwings do fill that role. You believing otherwise means you are using Archwing wrong. You clearly haven't even tried to take full advantage of its extreme mobility. While they could stand to improve the controls, the "experimental controls" option in the UI allows for some crazy maneuvers, and it's raw speed makes you impossible to hit if you just keep yourself constantly moving (even Elytron's hunky butt is fast enough for that).

The Railjack itself is not meant to be a "fighter" craft, but more like a heavy gunship. The Archwings are meant for speed, mobility, and infiltration, while possessing less raw firepower. There's no reason whatsoever to make anything as small as a Star Wars TIE fighter when we have the Archwings, which simply allow for better maneuverability.

Steve has previously expressed his own frustration with the "feel" of Railjack in general, suggesting that he wants it to feel more like Robotech.

Have you ever played a game with jet fighters or space fighters? Because archwings don't control like them. They don't shoot like them. You can't use archwings like that, not with the controls they currently have. I'd prefer that we had actual fighters in the game, with fighter-appropriate armaments (instead of the archwing guns that we have now), that fly and shoot and maneuver like fighters. The Railjack can be slow. That's fine. But to balance with that slow-ish speed, it needs to have more armaments. I want something akin to the ship combat in Assassin's Creed Black Flag, or something like the ship game Dreadnought. See, I actually want the Railjack to be more of a heavy gunship, with a lot of light, medium, and heavy guns. That would be cool. That would make Empyrean more exciting, not like the control system simulator that Railjack currently is.

Edited July 12, 2019 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[spirit_of_76]

On 2019-07-07 at 4:28 PM, DrivaMain said:

An article said that The New War will come at the end of the year (December). So, I am expecting Empyrean will come around September-October (usually a mainline comes around once every 3 months).

that is wishful thinking i am betting the soonest is march 2020 and late November 2019 for rail jack

[bluejello]

19 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

that is wishful thinking i am betting the soonest is march 2020 and late November 2019 for rail jack

You are aware that new war is coming christmas 2019, according to the trailer on the playwarframe youtube channel, and The Empyrean reveal recap article has " as the New War looms" as the final sentence to the squad link entry, which certainly makes it sound like railjack is coming between now and new war, so sept-oct is a decent guess from all the information I have seen.

[TheMuslimGamerGB]

5 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Have you ever played a game with jet fighters or space fighters? Because archwings don't control like them. They don't shoot like them. You can't use archwings like that, not with the controls they currently have. I'd prefer that we had actual fighters in the game, with fighter-appropriate armaments (instead of the archwing guns that we have now), that fly and shoot and maneuver like fighters. The Railjack can be slow. That's fine. But to balance with that slow-ish speed, it needs to have more armaments. I want something akin to the ship combat in Assassin's Creed Black Flag, or something like the ship game Dreadnought. See, I actually want the Railjack to be more of a heavy gunship, with a lot of light, medium, and heavy guns. That would be cool. That would make Empyrean more exciting, not like the control system simulator that Railjack currently is.

Archwings are basically Warframe's version of Gundams. They are not supposed to be fighters, so they won't move like them as they allow for more freedom of movement. I remember Steve mentioning the game Strike suit Infinity, so the controls were probably based off of that. To me the mode is actually reminiscent of Capcom games like Section Z (1985), Hyper Dyne Side Arms (1986) and Forgotten Worlds (1988).

[Vlada91]

I think its a goig to bee surprise and thats why are not telling us. We did get some update without even knowing when we are getting. So its not nothing new, I just think like all other normal thinking players that is coming in the end this month or beginning on new upcoming month... if not then why changing profile pricture on face and Twitter. (Its near)

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I never said Nightwave is content. I'm simply saying that, yes, we have a reason to log in and play the game. Even if it's not particularly interesting.

I'm also aware that Melee 3.0 won't be content. I'm simply saying it's something that they're working on. (Rebecca said they're getting back into it after Tennocon.)

I'm saying that people are being stupid with it because it's really... not worth getting emotional over. I want more content, too, but I'm still loving the game. Like I said, I get it. I do.

But this has always been the nature of Warframe. It's a bunch of grind, you hit a point where you've got NOTHING to do until some major updates come out, so... you step away. It's one of Warframe's best qualities: you're NOT punished for NOT playing.

Then you understand why the player-base and comminty don't and will no longer tolerate it.

9 hours ago, White_Matter said:

If you say so.

lol.

I do

lol.

(why does that sound really weird?, what did we do)

6 hours ago, bluejello said:

You are aware that new war is coming christmas 2019, according to the trailer on the playwarframe youtube channel, and The Empyrean reveal recap article has " as the New War looms" as the final sentence to the squad link entry, which certainly makes it sound like railjack is coming between now august. decent guess from all the information I have seen.

Like most people, no, they do not. I also fixed your post.

 

[MystikNeko]

Am 11.7.2019 um 09:51 schrieb BETAOPTICS:

Doubt it because the New War will utilize Empyrean features.

Fuuuuuu

[OniDax]

13 hours ago, TheMuslimGamerGB said:

Archwings are basically Warframe's version of Gundams. They are not supposed to be fighters, so they won't move like them as they allow for more freedom of movement. I remember Steve mentioning the game Strike suit Infinity, so the controls were probably based off of that. To me the mode is actually reminiscent of Capcom games like Section Z (1985), Hyper Dyne Side Arms (1986) and Forgotten Worlds (1988).

Then you agree with me that Archwings don't fulfill the role of fighters, because they're not meant to be fighters. It's laughable for anyone to suggest that archwings fill that role, because they aren't like fighters. Being fast and maneuverable doesn't make them sufficient for fulfilling that role, as DrakeWurrum suggests.

I would actually like to have Tenno fighters that we can fly. It's a different kind of gameplay than the gundam/jetpack-like Archwings (jetpack-like when not moving fast), and it's gameplay that I think would suit Warframe very well. It would certainly help make Empyrean more exciting.

[TheMuslimGamerGB]

26 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Then you agree with me that Archwings don't fulfill the role of fighters, because they're not meant to be fighters. It's laughable for anyone to suggest that archwings fill that role, because they aren't like fighters. Being fast and maneuverable doesn't make them sufficient for fulfilling that role, as DrakeWurrum suggests.

I would actually like to have Tenno fighters that we can fly. It's a different kind of gameplay than the gundam/jetpack-like Archwings (jetpack-like when not moving fast), and it's gameplay that I think would suit Warframe very well. It would certainly help make Empyrean more exciting.

Maybe they would allow use to use the fighters from within the Copus and Grineer cruise ships we jack.

[DrakeWurrum]

13 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Then you understand why the player-base and comminty don't and will no longer tolerate it.

I understand it and disagree with it, for one simple reason: Warframe isn't for hardcore players. Veterans like me are not the target audience. Those of us who would be called veteran/hardcore/tryhard/min-maxer. New players are, and likely the middle-road ones to a degree. You can see it in their devstreams and their twitter accounts: they joke around about veterans wanting content all the time. It's a joke to them. We are a joke to them. To constantly demand content the way we do... is something they're laughing about.

Warframe is for casual co-op players, and... it's way past time people just accept that. They're never going to fix the difficulty issue we veterans have. They're never going to do endgame. They're never going to release content fast enough for us.

And it comes down to revenue streams, I would guess. Prime Access is their biggest one. It brings in most of their money. I'm willing to bet that Prime Access is mostly bought by newer players. Think about it: you haven't unlocked the star chart. You probably still use your starter frame, maybe a handful of the weapons you can get early. Maybe you've maxed them, maybe not. Your mod collection is incomplete, so you still feel really weak. You haven't bought a color palette yet, so everything looks ugly to you.

Then you catch sight of the Prime Access, and it all looks so beautifully golden and powerful, and... well, you've never seen anything like that frame or those weapons, not yet. It's enticing.

This obviously can lead to the drawback of players mistakenly believing that the game is pay2win, because they don't realize... you can get that stuff just from playing the game.

Which is what we veterans do. Prime Access doesn't appeal to us. We're the stubborn tryhards who want to earn it ourselves, fully aware of how easy it is to grind out those relics. Which... makes DE no money.

It's the same reason they still haven't addressed the Hema research cost. It entices newer players into buying the Nidus bundle.

I would hazard to guess that this is why they're constantly putting out these stand-alone projects, like Railjack, or the open world areas. They're trying to branch out into more types of content to draw in the kinds of new players that content would draw in.

This is why open worlds are now their thing, when the vast majority of veterans hate them. They don't care that we hate them. They want to draw in more players to casually grind through the game from the beginning. These open world areas are big and beautiful and allows them to do big, grand "boss" battles that look amazing for marketing purposes.

It probably helps that doing these new projects with new ideas is way more fun for them than going back over the game they've already designed and fixing things for the better. That's probably bigger than anything else I said above. They want to maintain their creative freedom, damn the demands of the players.

 

 

And that's all fine. Warframe is the casual chill grind game. I'll go elsewhere for my hardcore fix, and DE can just not take my money. I see no benefit in being dramatic about this anymore. Call me cynical and bitter... it's the truth. And I'm done with being laughed at.

Edited July 12, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Radagosh]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb bluejello:

You are aware that new war is coming christmas 2019, according to the trailer on the playwarframe youtube channel, and The Empyrean reveal recap article has " as the New War looms" as the final sentence to the squad link entry, which certainly makes it sound like railjack is coming between now and new war, so sept-oct is a decent guess from all the information I have seen.

just add 1-3 months to every release date DE gives you and you'll have the actual release date for mainline updates. It's been like this since the war within and every time they give us an ETA it's going to be delayed and the forums are going to be lit up by people crying about the delay. By not trusting DE and calculating this delay in, you don't get upset and can laugh at all the people crying about the delay, while you're crying on the inside because you too have nothing to do. Welcome to being a veteran of warframe, it's a fun experience trust me.

Also on topic, railjack looks like AW did when they teased it. It looks like a promising, fun and dope game mode with space battles. Hopefully it won't repeat the mistakes AW did with not enough mission and tile diversity, junky controls, new ressources that needed to be grinded in the new gamemode exclussively (Tellurium at launch of AW) and very slow gameplay.

[Kalvorax]

I expect October or November....as has happened with Plains and Fortuna.

[AnOldAlias]

My honest guess is probably mid/late next month, or near the BL3 update for competitions sake(so basically two months or less). Lord knows that company's love being in competition sometimes.

It's already extremely fleshed out from what we've seen of it, it doesn't look like they need TO much more work to get Empyrean out.

[MJ12]

20 hours ago, TheMuslimGamerGB said:

Archwings are basically Warframe's version of Gundams. They are not supposed to be fighters, so they won't move like them as they allow for more freedom of movement. I remember Steve mentioning the game Strike suit Infinity, so the controls were probably based off of that. To me the mode is actually reminiscent of Capcom games like Section Z (1985), Hyper Dyne Side Arms (1986) and Forgotten Worlds (1988).

If Steve is reworking movement to act like Strike Suits do do in Strike Suit Zero, that's really good because SS0 movement feels very agile and crisp.

It did, however, primarily work based on a lockon/autoaim system so I'm not sure how much of that's going to get into the game. I really hope that it makes it in, because I've found that taking away the need for pixel perfect aiming does wonders for the feel of space games or fast-paced mech sims (Armored Core could only let you fly around at hundreds of kilometers an hour, wildly changing directions, because the game deliberately took away precision aiming and made fire control systems matter).

[DrakeWurrum]

49 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

If Steve is reworking movement to act like Strike Suits do do in Strike Suit Zero, that's really good because SS0 movement feels very agile and crisp.

It did, however, primarily work based on a lockon/autoaim system so I'm not sure how much of that's going to get into the game. I really hope that it makes it in, because I've found that taking away the need for pixel perfect aiming does wonders for the feel of space games or fast-paced mech sims (Armored Core could only let you fly around at hundreds of kilometers an hour, wildly changing directions, because the game deliberately took away precision aiming and made fire control systems matter).

Who needs pixel perfect aiming in Archwing?

I zoom around with the boost on constantly in combat, firing away at whatever I can hit. It's more exciting that way.

[OniDax]

26 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Who needs pixel perfect aiming in Archwing?

I zoom around with the boost on constantly in combat, firing away at whatever I can hit. It's more exciting that way.

Imagine being one of the few players who finds anything about archwing exciting. Perhaps that's why you think archwing is sufficient for Empyrean and why we differ in opinion regarding the need for proper starfighters.

6 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I understand it and disagree with it, for one simple reason: Warframe isn't for hardcore players. Veterans like me are not the target audience. Those of us who would be called veteran/hardcore/tryhard/min-maxer. New players are, and likely the middle-road ones to a degree. You can see it in their devstreams and their twitter accounts: they joke around about veterans wanting content all the time. It's a joke to them. We are a joke to them. To constantly demand content the way we do... is something they're laughing about.

Warframe is for casual co-op players, and... it's way past time people just accept that. They're never going to fix the difficulty issue we veterans have. They're never going to do endgame. They're never going to release content fast enough for us.

And it comes down to revenue streams, I would guess. Prime Access is their biggest one. It brings in most of their money. I'm willing to bet that Prime Access is mostly bought by newer players. Think about it: you haven't unlocked the star chart. You probably still use your starter frame, maybe a handful of the weapons you can get early. Maybe you've maxed them, maybe not. Your mod collection is incomplete, so you still feel really weak. You haven't bought a color palette yet, so everything looks ugly to you.

Then you catch sight of the Prime Access, and it all looks so beautifully golden and powerful, and... well, you've never seen anything like that frame or those weapons, not yet. It's enticing.

This obviously can lead to the drawback of players mistakenly believing that the game is pay2win, because they don't realize... you can get that stuff just from playing the game.

Which is what we veterans do. Prime Access doesn't appeal to us. We're the stubborn tryhards who want to earn it ourselves, fully aware of how easy it is to grind out those relics. Which... makes DE no money.

It's the same reason they still haven't addressed the Hema research cost. It entices newer players into buying the Nidus bundle.

I would hazard to guess that this is why they're constantly putting out these stand-alone projects, like Railjack, or the open world areas. They're trying to branch out into more types of content to draw in the kinds of new players that content would draw in.

This is why open worlds are now their thing, when the vast majority of veterans hate them. They don't care that we hate them. They want to draw in more players to casually grind through the game from the beginning. These open world areas are big and beautiful and allows them to do big, grand "boss" battles that look amazing for marketing purposes.

It probably helps that doing these new projects with new ideas is way more fun for them than going back over the game they've already designed and fixing things for the better. That's probably bigger than anything else I said above. They want to maintain their creative freedom, damn the demands of the players.

 

 

And that's all fine. Warframe is the casual chill grind game. I'll go elsewhere for my hardcore fix, and DE can just not take my money. I see no benefit in being dramatic about this anymore. Call me cynical and bitter... it's the truth. And I'm done with being laughed at.

Here's the thing: I'm a veteran. I've been playing Warframe since May 2013. I'm not a hardcore player. I don't care about min-maxing. I didn't care about running several hour-long survival sessions back in the day. I didn't care for Trials. I don't farm for anything in the game. If I want something, I buy it with plat. Warframe's grind doesn't appeal to me. I don't care about high difficulty. I don't care about endless content drops to satisfy endgame. I don't care about clan research. I'm not saying any of that justifies DE's decisions over the years. I'm just saying that I'm a veteran, yet I don't play the game for the same reasons you do.

Thing is, I care about the gameplay experience, which, at its base level, is the gameplay mechanics, mission design, and level design. My issue with Warframe, and why I've stepped away from the game, is that its gameplay mechanics are very poor, imo. I don't find it fun to run around and shoot things in this game because I can't stand the shooting mechanics or how we move while shooting. I don't find most of the guns fun at all. I don't like the movement animations. I think they're awful. I don't care for the parkour system. Never have. It's nice to be able to move fast across the map using bullet jump, but I hate that the gameplay is so lackluster to me that I want to finish a mission as quickly as possible in the first place.

I'm not a fan of archwings, as I've mentioned enough here. I think they're boring. Yeah, I prefer star/space fighters. I prefer taking on other space fighters and capital ships in gameplay that's centered around high-speed fighter vs fighter gameplay. I don't like flying around with a glorified jet pack. Steve mentioned the Battle of Endor from Return of the Jedi when talking about Empyrean. That's what I want, not the space simulator-like mode that DE has shown off. That's why more than ever, I want space fighters.

I don't like the tileset structure. I've never been a fan of this puzzle/maze system with randomly generated tiles. I'd prefer maps that are actually designed to be like the place they're supposed to be. If we're on a ship, I want it to be laid out like a ship. I want unalerted enemies to be behaving like they're on a ship. I want to see different types of enemies that are believable for a ship. If we're on a planet, I prefer if it actually feels like a diverse planet with closed and open areas and not just like a cave. That's why I wanted open world.

Yes, I wanted open world. I wanted that because I wanted DE to focus more on the core gameplay experience of fighting enemies. I wanted an immersive, interactive, and dynamic world that would integrate all of Warframe's various game modes, something that would fully capture the Warframe gameplay experience. I wanted something like Ghost Recon Wildlands, with dynamic AI, dynamic weather, dynamic side missions, a core cinematic story (open worlds need to be the setting of the cinematic quests and designed around them), and civilian and enemy populations in the actual open world. Instead, DE gave us a poor copy of Destiny's map design (seriously, take a look at how Destiny 2's gameplay loop is on their various maps, and how the experience is designed. It's very similar), with a focus on collecting fish, gathering gems, and fighting ugly monsters using the still-awful Operator mechanics. And then they repeated it with Fortuna.

But DE handled open world the same way they handled archwing, lunaro, conclave, and frame fighter. When players told them their issues with what DE was making, they didn't listen. People didn't want open world because they didn't want an MMO-like map that was focused on collecting stuff. I, and others, offered them constructive feedback on how to create an open world that actually maintained Warframe's core gameplay experience. They didn't listen. Before open world, they did that with the systems mentioned.

People were enamored with Archwing because it was something different. There was so much space to move. It felt freer than Warframe's core gameplay. But there was nothing to archwing beyond what they had been showing off in devstreams. It was barebones. There was no depth to it. The gameplay experience was shallow and it was designed to try to replicate the tileset mission structure. It failed, because it ended up being boring and underdeveloped. And when players asked them to continue to work on it, they ignored those calls too and moved to something else, only coming back to archwing later and still not improving it in the ways it needed improving.

Lunaro was dead before it was released. The vast majority of people were not enthused with Lunaro. They told DE as much, even in the devstream chat (which is usually the place you'll find the most hype, at least at the time). Most did not want a random sports mode in Warframe. Players wanted something focused on combat. DE released Lunaro anyway. Dead on Arrival. It's still dead. They chose not to listen.

Frame Fighter was another waste of time that most said was nothing more than a neat experiment for Tennocon. When DE started talking about adding it to the game, most said that DE needed to actually make it good before they released it. As with most things, what we ended up getting was very little more than the barebones, poorly-made mode that debuted at Tennocon. Some counter-argued that it was just a side project by one or a few of their devs. That doesn't matter. DE should aim for quality for anything they officially put out. Players said as much. They didn't listen.

Conclave failed before any of that. It wasn't popular. It didn't work with DE's P2P hosting system, and people complained it was toxic. Even more of an issue than that, Warframe's mechanics were ill-suited for PvP gameplay. Some of us suggested ways to improve the experience, namely by improving the core gameplay mechanics that made frantic PvP action such a pain in Warframe. Some of us suggested changing the approach to PvP by shifting from an Unreal Tournament approach to the gameplay experience to an objective-based approach to the gameplay experience by building PvP around the existing tileset mission structure. But nope. DE tried adding new maps, adding new modes based on modes in other games (like the oro system), even turning a PvE system like Solar Rail Conflicts into PvP (a system which had its own issues with toxicity that ultimately failed because of DE's approach to the mode).

I think the gameplay experience has been dull. I put up with it for a long time because I was a fan of Warframe's aesthetic, of the Excalibur warframe's abilities, and of the melee system (before they gutted it with Melee 2.999997), and because I had hope that Warframe would improve in the ways I thought it should. It had the potential to be better if DE improved on the core mechanics of the game and on the way in which the game was designed (the areas and systems mentioned above). After six years, I think that potential has been squandered.

So, as a fellow veteran, I'm at the place where I'm cynical and displeased with Warframe (I was bitter at first but that has become disappointment), but not for the same reasons. No amount of challenge or new rewards or new warframes is going to change that for me. The only thing that will change how I feel is if the core gameplay experience improves, and quite frankly I don't think DE even believes it needs improving, unfortunately.

5 hours ago, Radagosh said:

just add 1-3 months to every release date DE gives you and you'll have the actual release date for mainline updates. It's been like this since the war within and every time they give us an ETA it's going to be delayed and the forums are going to be lit up by people crying about the delay. By not trusting DE and calculating this delay in, you don't get upset and can laugh at all the people crying about the delay, while you're crying on the inside because you too have nothing to do. Welcome to being a veteran of warframe, it's a fun experience trust me.

Also on topic, railjack looks like AW did when they teased it. It looks like a promising, fun and dope game mode with space battles. Hopefully it won't repeat the mistakes AW did with not enough mission and tile diversity, junky controls, new ressources that needed to be grinded in the new gamemode exclussively (Tellurium at launch of AW) and very slow gameplay.

Empyrean absolutely feels like Archwing all over again for me. It promises something more than it will actually deliver. Players keep expecting some big surprise from DE, that somehow there's something much bigger to these shallow game modes that DE just isn't showing off. That's never the case. People expected that with Archwing. It turned out to be just as shallow and empty and underdeveloped as it looked on DE's devstreams. People expected that with Plains of Eidolon. Plains of Eidolon was not much more than what they showed off at Tennocon. Some people are expecting something much more than what we've seen of Empyrean. I don't understand why, but I understand that's how the Warframe playerbase is.

Back when all we had was a few snippets of codex lore, people swore that DE had this big grandiose plan for the story and that they were just keeping it secret. That was never the case. They just hadn't taken the time to come up with more story. That's why the cinematic quests didn't adhere to much of the codex lore (including Stalker's Orokin allegiance and his reason for hating the Tenno). That's why the Apostasy didn't match with The Sacrifice, particularly the Lotus' state of being (DE admitted that they came up with Apostasy before they wrote The Sacrifice).

It's the same thing with DE's approach to the systems they design. Most of the time, if they haven't shown something, it isn't because it's this big secret that they're keeping, like some major feature that they're just keeping secret until the release of the new system. They tend to show off what they have. Just like Archwing and Plains of Eidolon, Empyrean may look as though it promises something more beyond what we've seen at Tennocon, but most likely, that is not the case. Empyrean has already shown you limited mission diversity (none, actually, as we've seen the same basic type of mission with Corpus and Grineer), new resources that need to be grinded to upgrade the Railjack, and slow gameplay. There's no reason to expect something different from Empyrean.

Edited July 13, 2019 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Circle_of_Psi]

8 hours ago, Radagosh said:

Also on topic, railjack looks like AW did when they teased it. It looks like a promising, fun and dope game mode with space battles. Hopefully it won't repeat the mistakes AW did with not enough mission and tile diversity, junky controls, new ressources that needed to be grinded in the new gamemode exclussively (Tellurium at launch of AW) and very slow gameplay.

I don't think that is the case, Arcwing was a laughing stock at Tennocon (IIRC), they won't repeat same mistakes with railjack, that is alteast one hope I can live with.

8 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

...as has happened with Plains and Fortuna.

Are you sure about that?, I don't recall both being pushed that far in the dates when they where released, that or I just forgot, due to the Tamara of delays. 

7 hours ago, AnOldAlias said:

My honest guess is probably mid/late next month

It's already extremely fleshed out from what we've seen of it, it doesn't look like they need TO much more work to get Empyrean out.

This ^

While I don't think BL3 will have anything to do with Warframe (cuz BL3 is a Epic Game Exluc) so everyone is already not gonna buy it, besides the hard-core fans. So that is not really valid for a Competition, same goes for D2 (what ever dlc comes out soon, I forgot).

Rail jack was right out the Devbuild IIIRC hearing it Tennocon, so not much work left. 

My own Guess was end of this one, to early/mid next month (late if we're unlucky and delayed)

[Circle_of_Psi]

8 hours ago, Radagosh said:

just add 1-3 months to every release date DE gives you and you'll have the actual release date for mainline updates. It's been like this since the war within and every time they give us an ETA it's going to be delayed and the forums are going to be lit up by people crying about the delay. By not trusting DE and calculating this delay in, you don't get upset and can laugh at all the people crying about the delay, while you're crying on the inside because you too have nothing to do. Welcome to being a veteran of warframe, it's a fun experience trust me.

While I understand your point, I'll like to throw this into the mix "online games live and die by community" at some point (I'm not saying it will) but at SOME point, everyone will be doing it, what then Rad?, I'm being serious, I just want to kown your feelings on such. 

I think pretty much everyone has been not trusting them with RD and calculating delays, sense War Within happened, I think that was the true breaking point and it's been left and scared for a long time, cuz alot of people forget, people hold bad history with other people for a VERY long time (I do bealive its called: "grudges") and it's not something you can heal esaily by doing it over and over once more. Umbra (is the most key factor here) and then now there's this. (Shown Twice a Year, not even released)

While I admit, its fun and humorous to laugh at others or laugh it up inside for things that don't bother YOU along with your pals who agree with you, but this is what divides the comminty, you have your people who, just don't give a damm or your loyal ones. (ofc there is other factors but I don't wanna trial off-topic to much)

1-2 is plenty (3 if you really have no choice for a true reason, like a very broken bug or even something can't even run right without a fix)