There should be another way to earn Umbra Forma.

[White_Matter]

1000% agreed.

That thing is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too exclusive.

Considering the amount of frames and the amount of umbral mods we have.

It is actually like a bad joke. Hope they do something about it.

 

[Golmihr]

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

What? Exilus and Forma are straight upgrades as well. Umbral Forma just allows us to reduce the Umbral mods as well.

I'm not sure what is hard to understand.

Normal forma has been a part of the game from the start so are irrelevant in this context. Not a change/power creep.

So what if Exilus utility mods exists. One does not equal the other. It is clear that DE view Umbral mods as a lot stronger than Exilus mods based on their drain and polarity restriction (Plus it is hopefully clear that Umbral mods are on a different level when you read their stats).

Edited July 11, 2019 by Golmihr

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

34 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

I'm not sure what is hard to understand.

Normal forma has been a part of the game from the start so are irrelevant in this context. Not a change/power creep.

So what if Exilus utility mods exists. One does not equal the other. It is clear that DE view Umbral mods as a lot stronger than Exilus mods based on their drain and polarity restriction (Plus it is hopefully clear that Umbral mods are on a different level when you read their stats).

The strength of Umbral mods comes from using multiple of them at the same time. I mean Umbral Vitality is a downgrade for health unless you run it with other Umbral mods as it costs more for the same health bonus as regular Vitality.

Umbral Intensify costs 5 more than Intensify and gives you 14% more power strength with no reliable way to reduce the mod cost. Still you can build around the polarity but I wouldn't exactly call it a lot stronger since it's like a mod set with very prohibitive polarity.

This is of course made worse since we cannot have multiples of each Umbral mod so once you level it to max it severely limits how many you can fit into a build without using an Umbral forma. So while Umbral mods are strong they are certainly not OP unless you invest Umbral forma and then your build becomes extremely limited overall.

Tl;dr: While strong, Umbral mods are not always a straight upgrade due to their restrictive nature.

Edited July 11, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[Qmiras]

On 2019-07-08 at 2:37 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

Nightwave should not be the only way we can earn Umbra Forma in-game DE. For those of us who might not have as much time as others and actually miss a lot of the Nightwave challenges as a result, it's just painful to try and catch up when you've already missed a good chunk of points. The twenty six levels of grind we have to go through in the first place is bad enough. And then when Nightwave is over we have to wait more for the next season to come out.

Maybe make it an exclusive drop to the Lua Tileset, which would make sense lore-wise. Specifcally the Lua Spy drop table? Or put it in the market to buy for plat?

Rewards gated behind content you don't like....

why do you feels like you deserve that reward? I friking hate eidolons and all the meta that comes with them...I don't go asking for arcanes on the content that I like...I like arbitrations but I barely do them because I don't have time...I don't go asking for vitrus in other content...

Why do YOU deserve rewards for a content you don't play?

Edited July 11, 2019 by Qmiras
Big fingers on small phone

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

6 minutes ago, Qmiras said:

Rewards gated behind content you don't like....

why do you feels like you deserve that reward? I friking hate eidolons and all the meta that comes with them...I don't go asking for arcanes on the content that I like...I like arbitrations but I barely do them because I don't have time...I don't go asking for vitrus in other content...

Why do YOU deserve rewards for a content you don't play?

Plain and simple, NW is tedious and boring, it's not challenging. Everyone can do it if they are willing to put up with the chore that it is however most of us lose the will to play the game because of it, after the first season I didn't play WF for a long time because of it.

So if the Umbra Forma was put behind something that's hard and a challenge I wouldn't have problems with it as it actually would feel rewarding compared to the BS that is Nightwave.

[Leqesai]

6 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

Umbral forma is a mistake, warframes are op af, making it easy to get would fk things up even more. I am ok with one umbral forma per nightwave season, it's a great incentive to do nightwave. But anything else would be game breaking.

I believe you are missing the point of warframe. Being super strong is intended.

[Qmiras]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

NW is tedious and boring, 

For you...is tedious and boring for you...if you want that reward you'll swim through S#&$ to get it...or you just won't.

All you are pointing out is that you want the rewards but not the hassle of actual work to get it...yes, doing content that you don't enjoy is taken as work.

There's no power on this universe that will make me play chroma/sniper so I won't be getting arcanes...and that's a good thing because it makes free game time to do the things that I do enjoy.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

honestly rather not we don't need everything to be umbra in my opinion (I'd have rather kept umbra polarities on umbra only) and we don't need everything having more powercreep with umbral builds everywhere it's not a big deal they're not coming out with hundreds of umbral forma.

[stormy505]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Plain and simple, NW is tedious and boring, it's not challenging. Everyone can do it if they are willing to put up with the chore that it is however most of us lose the will to play the game because of it, after the first season I didn't play WF for a long time because of it.

So if the Umbra Forma was put behind something that's hard and a challenge I wouldn't have problems with it as it actually would feel rewarding compared to the BS that is Nightwave.

It's not like tridolons or arbitrations were challenging. Honestly the biggest challenge was trying to entertain myself when farming them, but I didn't complain about rewards being restricted to those types of content. 

Nw is a much lower time commitment then ether of those two modes and the rewards aren't locked behind rng. If you don't do the content, you don't get the rewards.

[Golmihr]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The strength of Umbral mods comes from using multiple of them at the same time.

Of course. Without their set bonus two of them are identical to common mods while the last match a primed version of Intensify. A lot of frames however have a hard time equipping all 3 without making big sacrifices to what would otherwise be an ideal loadout. (That's how it provides a bigger power creep than an Exilus slot which that other poster was setting it equal as.)

Edited July 11, 2019 by Golmihr

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

1 hour ago, Qmiras said:

For you...is tedious and boring for you...if you want that reward you'll swim through S#&$ to get it...or you just won't.

All you are pointing out is that you want the rewards but not the hassle of actual work to get it...yes, doing content that you don't enjoy is taken as work.

There's no power on this universe that will make me play chroma/sniper so I won't be getting arcanes...and that's a good thing because it makes free game time to do the things that I do enjoy.

Keep believing that. That doesn't excuse it's BS format.

[Kingdom_key599]

7 hours ago, Qmiras said:

For you...is tedious and boring for you...if you want that reward you'll swim through S#&$ to get it...or you just won't.

All you are pointing out is that you want the rewards but not the hassle of actual work to get it...yes, doing content that you don't enjoy is taken as work.

There's no power on this universe that will make me play chroma/sniper so I won't be getting arcanes...and that's a good thing because it makes free game time to do the things that I do enjoy.

To be frank, items like umbral forma shouldn't be locked behind just one thing to begin with, instead the smart thing to do would be to put umbral forma elsewhere along side it being in NW, rather then it just being locked behind NW. Yeah to most people NW is extremely easy to do... however what pushes people away from NW (Myself included here) is the really crappy missions that involve us using 3 normal forma on our items and/or gilding modular items.

Most of us have this stuff already gilded and not to mention the 3 forma thing is still a reward. So when we get the forma its really just a waste of space when we have to use said 3 forma for 1 singular mission in NW.

and just like how someone mentioned before we don't want the item for free what would be the point, what we want is to actually put work into it but to put in that actual work elsewhere in a game mode that we actually enjoy, generally putting the umbral forma in like ESO or Arbitrations really isn't a bad start to be honest. The main issue with this however is the drop rate if were gonna be real here.

Thinking that we want the rewards for free is rather ignorant if im gonna be real here.

[Qmiras]

7 hours ago, Kingdom_key599 said:

To be frank, items like umbral forma shouldn't be locked behind just one thing to begin with, instead the smart thing to do would be to put umbral forma elsewhere along side it being in NW, rather then it just being locked behind NW. Yeah to most people NW is extremely easy to do... however what pushes people away from NW (Myself included here) is the really crappy missions that involve us using 3 normal forma on our items and/or gilding modular items.

Most of us have this stuff already gilded and not to mention the 3 forma thing is still a reward. So when we get the forma its really just a waste of space when we have to use said 3 forma for 1 singular mission in NW.

and just like how someone mentioned before we don't want the item for free what would be the point, what we want is to actually put work into it but to put in that actual work elsewhere in a game mode that we actually enjoy, generally putting the umbral forma in like ESO or Arbitrations really isn't a bad start to be honest. The main issue with this however is the drop rate if were gonna be real here.

Thinking that we want the rewards for free is rather ignorant if im gonna be real here.

Ok, rewards not free I got that.

But Getting 3 forma on takes 3 days, maybe 4 if you need a day for farming....the sortie one takes 3 days too no one is getting hot about it.

 

[Golmihr]

On 2019-07-11 at 6:39 PM, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Tl;dr: While strong, Umbral mods are not always a straight upgrade due to their restrictive nature. 

That's the part you don't get about what I'm saying. It doesn't matter that it is "not always" a straight upgrade. The Umbral forma removes the drain for a lot of builds that otherwise could not fit all 3 mods in an optimal configuration, thereby makes the Umbral forma a strong power/health/armor upgrade to many existing builds.

Edit: And that is likely why they have made it hard to get compared to utility slots.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Golmihr

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 hours ago, Golmihr said:

That's the part you don't get about what I'm saying. It doesn't matter that it is "not always" a straight upgrade. The Umbral forma removes the drain for a lot of builds that otherwise could not fit all 3 mods in an optimal configuration, thereby makes the Umbral forma a strong power/health/armor upgrade to many existing builds.

Edit: And that is likely why they have made it hard to get compared to utility slots.

Except then you are locked into using Umbral mods. Think about how many builds changed when Adaptation released because that D polarity is very difficult to utilize well, and it only costs 12 not 16.

Even if Umbral forma was easier to acquire, many player would use a second frame to install them as it prohibits build variety. There are particular frames that are optimized by the Umbral mods, but for the rest it locks you into a very specific build. This is a significant drawback despite feeling very powerful.

[Golmihr]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Except then you are locked into using Umbral mods. Think about how many builds changed when Adaptation released because that D polarity is very difficult to utilize well, and it only costs 12 not 16.

Even if Umbral forma was easier to acquire, many player would use a second frame to install them as it prohibits build variety. There are particular frames that are optimized by the Umbral mods, but for the rest it locks you into a very specific build. This is a significant drawback despite feeling very powerful.

What? D polarities are not hard to utilize on warframes at all. I think you are confusing it with weapons.

I don't see the comparison with Adaption. The only Umbral mod that makes a difference alone is Umbral Intensify which isn't comparable with Adaption.

 

In the end this is a question about of that DE have made all the Umbral mods requiring a sacrifice to equip and an Umbral forma gets around that penalty.

All warframes benefit from at least one of the umbral mods so if they made it easy to farm an Umbral slot would just become default on all frames and we got power creep across the board instead of the player being reward to advance a few of their favorite frames. If you cannot see the difference and why DE might have chosen to set it up this way then I don't know what to say.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Golmihr

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 2019-07-08 at 12:25 AM, Ver1dian said:

If you can't spare the time to complete this incarnation of nightwave, you're better off playing minesweeper in your free time.

 

 

[DrakeWurrum]

On 2019-07-08 at 1:14 AM, Kingdom_key599 said:

Keep in mind that some of us have really crappy game time schedules. some of us work like 5 or 6 days a week or have insane amounts of homework to catch up on so really by the time we need that 60% you mentioned the Nightwave will be over and done with. i was so busy with college stuff during the last nightwave that i only made it to rank 15 thats not even close to 60% if you ask me... besides in my opinion i literally rolled my eyes when i seen the 3 forma and guild a modular item things still in the rotations. we still shouldn't get 3 forma and use said 3 forma to complete a Nightwave mission, it seems kind of redundant and a waste of time to complete and a waste of a reward.

I work 5 days a week, 50-60+ hours. I get, at most, 2 hours a day between getting home and going to bed, which means I don't usually get a lot of gaming time. I am fortunate in that my weekends are largely free except for having to be an adult with a family.

I still grind out my entire Nightwave to-do list in 3-5 hours total. It's not hard, nor time-consuming.

You also need to consider the math. The total standing possible for Nightwave is 435k. You only need 300k to get all the cosmetics. You can skip a good portion of the Acts you don't feel like or simply cannot do. In fact, you can skip all but one of the Elite Weekly Acts from the entire series, and that's assuming the series ends at exactly 10 weeks.

Also, I think the Forma challenge might be gone. It's confirmed they removed gilding, so hopefully they also removed the Forma challenge.

Edited July 16, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[sungod1]

Forma Prime

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

22 hours ago, Golmihr said:

What? D polarities are not hard to utilize on warframes at all. I think you are confusing it with weapons.

I don't see the comparison with Adaption. The only Umbral mod that makes a difference alone is Umbral Intensify which isn't comparable with Adaption.

 

In the end this is a question about of that DE have made all the Umbral mods requiring a sacrifice to equip and an Umbral forma gets around that penalty.

All warframes benefit from at least one of the umbral mods so if they made it easy to farm an Umbral slot would just become default on all frames and we got power creep across the board instead of the player being reward to advance a few of their favorite frames. If you cannot see the difference and why DE might have chosen to set it up this way then I don't know what to say.

And as noted, only Umbral Intensify is better than than the standard mod. Sure you get Tau resistance but you also pay a higher mod cost. And then you still can't shift mods around unless you want to pay a penalty. I think you are seriously overstating how important umbral forma would be for most builds.

As for D polarities, the game has changed over the years and damage reduction does more than stacking shields and armor, with few exceptions. Giving a frame more than 1 D polarity is typically considered a detriment since having high armor, shields, and health only helps you survive slightly longer as once enemies scale you need some form of damage reduction to multiply your defense. Thankfully, mods like Narrow Minded and Adaptation have helped D polarity slots find value. Certainly D is much, much better on warframes than on weapons but the game has evolved beyond the point of simply stacking health, armor and shields for survivability. As such, just like umbral mods, having a dedicated polarity can really hinder build diversity, not to mention that D and Umbral are often redundant together.