Enhancing the new player experience

[OceanSync]

Hello,

I recently have had close to 8 friends start the game and play for 10-20 hours only to quit a bit later. I just wanted to provide their feedback on why they quit so that maybe something can be altered later on that might allow them to come back. The biggest complaint I had from my friends was that inventory space was limited by your wallet. They werent huge fans of the crafting taking real time but I explained that if you just queue a few weapons before bed you can easily have a whole new set of toys the next day which most were ok with. The issue they ran into was they didnt want to keep deleting all of these items they are rewarded and leveled up because they havent paid for inventory space yet. Like me most of my friends are collectors, I want to literally collect everything in the game, I feel there is a real demographic of players that do so, removing the purchased inventory would be a good start to bringing some of them back into the game.

The second issue they had was the acquisition of potatoes. The fact that you basically have to start putting potatoes on your guns mildly early in the game really turned them off to it, I understand that gift of lotus and alerts(RIP sweet prince) could give out potatoes some times but the rate at which they are acquired for free is not enough. Take forma for example, you can farm forma relatively easy and they are used just about as often as potatoes. Why cant we have an easy in game way to get potato blueprints?

I feel like the skins, convenience bundles, forma bundles ect will keep DE's wallets padded just fine and bring more players into the game to buy more and more of the cooler stuff rather than having to worry about a maintenance fee of plat every single time they want to use a new weapon.

Regards,

OceanSync

[GnarlsDarkley]

tl; dr

Quote

DE, please let new players better undstand the importance of trading and how to get used to the chat

edit: Feedback goes here if you want the correct people to read this. https://forums.warframe.com/forum/21-general/

Just report your post and include that you want this thread to be moved. No need to repost

Edited July 8, 2019 by GnarlsDarkley

[OceanSync]

Not really at all what I was getting at. I understand that you can trade for plat but when you are a new player you basically still need everything that drops, are limited on trades, most likely wont have anything anyone wants. So no I really want them to remove the inventory space purchases and make potatoes easier to acquire in game so they can spend their money on looking cool and enjoying the game.

On a side note, my bad ill try to get it moved.

[peterc3]

23 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

Why cant we have an easy in game way to get potato blueprints?

They aren't used anywhere near as much as Forma, given you need only one for a weapon, frame, companion, etc. They are much more valuable and there is no real reason for them to be more available.

24 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

I feel there is a real demographic of players that do so, removing the purchased inventory would be a good start to bringing some of them back into the game.

This is an argument to convince DE to keep it, not remove it.

25 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

I feel like the skins, convenience bundles, forma bundles ect will keep DE's wallets padded just fine and bring more players into the game to buy more and more of the cooler stuff rather than having to worry about a maintenance fee of plat every single time they want to use a new weapon.

Your feelings are underground compared to their actual numbers.

[OceanSync]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

They aren't used anywhere near as much as Forma, given you need only one for a weapon, frame, companion, etc. They are much more valuable and there is no real reason for them to be more available.

This is an argument to convince DE to keep it, not remove it.

Your feelings are underground compared to their actual numbers.

I can understand where you are coming from, I pay for inventory space potatoes and basically everything else but I also grew with the game. As new players coming in, they were not fans of the items stated above which is all I really wanted to convey as that is why they quit even though they enjoyed the game.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

26 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

tl; dr

edit: Feedback goes here if you want the correct people to read this. https://forums.warframe.com/forum/21-general/

Just report your post and include that you want this thread to be moved. No need to repost

What does a new player have that they can trade? I'm not joking, the market is only primes and rivens.

[MonkeyTweets]

I also agree with Ocean's suggestions.

 

@peterc3

15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

41 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

I feel there is a real demographic of players that do so, removing the purchased inventory would be a good start to bringing some of them back into the game.

This is an argument to convince DE to keep it, not remove it.

This is not an argument to convince DE to keep it. Ocean clearly states that he thinks removing inventory purchases would bring more players in, thus increasing revenue for DE, being that it drives new players away. Please read these posts in full if you plan to counter certain points.

[GnarlsDarkley]

22 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

Not really at all what I was getting at.

I did understand where you were coming from. And I started several alts so I really do know the limited resources. You start with 50p. That's either 2 frame slots and if you gift them 2p another 2 weapons slots (which is a decent start). Or they buy 1 frame slot and 4 weapon slots.

One can easily grind most of the game with Excal and one or two good weapons.

22 minutes ago, OceanSync said:

most likely wont have anything anyone wants.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

What does a new player have that they can trade? I'm not joking, the market is only primes

You can always sell prime junk: 12 Plat * MR each day

 

That's theoretically. You can carry them in the Derelict for Corrupted Mods. You can give them Relics or "lend" them some slots. I did this with some friends' colleagues which I got to know a little closer and they returned it later.

I have so many relics...I cannot even use all of them even if I would only run Fissure for the next 2 months

 

That's why I said the hardest part is getting into trading. I quit this game for the exact same reason back in 2015 after there were 7 Reactor/Catalysts daily in a row when I was at work. After I started again I was selling small and in the end I made about 10k to 20k per month

Edited July 8, 2019 by GnarlsDarkley

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, MonkeyTweets said:

I also agree with Ocean's suggestions.

 

@peterc3

This is not an argument to convince DE to keep it. Ocean clearly states that he thinks removing inventory purchases would bring more players in, thus increasing revenue for DE, being that it drives new players away. Please read these posts in full if you plan to counter certain points.

If people are brought back into the game and they spend nothing, DE loses money. For every person they lose, supposedly for this reason, they gain many others who don't have a problem with this or they work around it.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 minute ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I did understand where you were coming from. And I started several alts so I really do know the limited resources. You start with 50p. That's either 2 frame slots and if you gift them 2p another 2 weapons slots (which is a decent start). Or they buy 1 frame slot and 4 weapon slots.

One can easily grind most of the game with Excal and one or two good weapons.

You can always sell prime junk: 12 Plat * MR each day

 

That's theoretically. You can carry them in the Derelict for Corrupted Mods. You can give them Relics or "lend" them some slots. I did this with some friends' colleagues which I got to know a little closer and they returned it later.

 

That's why I said the hardest part is getting into trading. I quit this game for the exact same reason back in 2015 after there were 7 Reactor/Catalysts daily in a row when I was at work. After I started again I was selling small and in the end I made about 10k to 20k per month

Maybe PC is doing better on prices than on xbox, prime junk goes for maybe 5p and a lot of prime warframes go for like 80.

[GnarlsDarkley]

Just now, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Maybe PC is doing better on prices than on xbox, prime junk goes for maybe 5p

OP is PC.

I doubt you have to sell 6 junk items for only 5p. That's not even 1p per item

[MonkeyTweets]

5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

If people are brought back into the game and they spend nothing, DE loses money. For every person they lose, supposedly for this reason, they gain many others who don't have a problem with this or they work around it.

This would not result in people purchasing nothing lol.. their money would, in theory, be spent elsewhere on other cash shop items. They won't feel as forced to either remove their earned items due to lack of space or increase their capacity. The one thing that frustrates new players the most is when they feel forced to spend cash to advance. Not saying that it is completely necessary, but I can understand one's feelings on the matter.

Edited July 8, 2019 by MonkeyTweets

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 minute ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

OP is PC.

I doubt you have to sell 6 junk items for only 5p. That's not even 1p per item

Eh God roll Rivens arent going for nearly what they are on PC either. Console seems to be a ton more stingy with their plat.

[GnarlsDarkley]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Console seems to be a ton more stingy with their plat.

I wonder why when you cannot get 4300 plat with 50 bucks, eh? 

[Bioness]

I think them increasing the default to 4 frame slots and 10 weapon slots could go a long way in keeping people at the start.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Bioness

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I feel like it is easier than ever to get around this issue, now. Though l, it isn’t made clear. Night wave, assuming it was active when they played, can let you earn slots passively while playing by ranking. I say passively, because many of the missions can be done just by playing normally. Of course you can get further by putting a little more effort in and use the cred to buy what you need. This extends to reactors, catalyst, and forma. 

[FlyingDice]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

What does a new player have that they can trade? I'm not joking, the market is only primes and rivens.

Run literally any mission on Earth. Pop the relics you get. Sell anything valuable. Sell the rest as prime trash for 5-6p each, especially around Baro times. One decent prime part will give you multiple slot purchases, 2-3 trash will give you at least one frame/two weapon slots.

The resources are all there, the issue is that they're not transparent to newcomers.

That said, I also think that the starting slot allotment is atrociously limited, especially these days. It was okay to be so sharply limited in 2013 when we didn't have many frames and weapons available to begin with now, but they really need to push it out to something like 4 frame/16 weapon slots by default.

[bullgrimwm]

frame and weapon slots are a problem to new players.. yes..
potato's is a SUPER problem for new players.. yes..

 

but the biggest problem... the one I didn't even know existed until I did quite a bit of research, is that the weapon doesnt really matter... the MODS do.

good mods can carry any weapon. but people who don't know about warframe only see mods as "additions" or "accessories" not as ESSENTIAL PARTS.

 

I think warframe needs to be alot more transparent from the get go about just how IMPORTANT mods are both in your frame and weapons.
so instead of blowing their 50p on cosmetics (most players do) they will spend it on mods.
 

they also need to either purchase and/or partner with warframe.market - or create their own, just like Path of Exile did.
it is a hidden GEM zero new players know about.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

20 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Run literally any mission on Earth. Pop the relics you get. Sell anything valuable. Sell the rest as prime trash for 5-6p each, especially around Baro times. One decent prime part will give you multiple slot purchases, 2-3 trash will give you at least one frame/two weapon slots.

The resources are all there, the issue is that they're not transparent to newcomers.

That said, I also think that the starting slot allotment is atrociously limited, especially these days. It was okay to be so sharply limited in 2013 when we didn't have many frames and weapons available to begin with now, but they really need to push it out to something like 4 frame/16 weapon slots by default.

Who wants to buy that stuff though? I normally see people posting about prime junk repeatedly. 

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

100% agree with the inventory problem. I understand why it's in place, but it is extremely limiting. At the very least, the slots need to be doubled; begin with three slots to rotate frames, two frame slots per purchase, four weapon slots per purchase, etc. I think that would be a fair compromise and I would be more willing to spend plat on other things if I wasn't saving it all for slots.

As for the plat new players start with; I have personally seen at least five new players inadvertently spend it on cosmetics or even crafting before they realized that slots existed. New players having to reserve the chance to get one cool customization just so they can test out new frames half a week later is a real turn-off.

[-Himari-]

Moved as requested.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I'd like to see Warframe and Weapon slots earnable in-game as part of either the Main Quest Line (added to Junction boss rewards) or Mastery Rank, at least for early game progression. Nightwave has been giving a few out, but Nightwave is not newbie friendly and cannot be relied upon to be active when any new player starts to help them through the early stages. This would add some incentive toward clearing the quest line to progress through the star chart (since "fully clearing planets so the unlocked nodes are available for alerts" is no longer a thing.)

(The newbie experience has been hit hard recently with the removal of alerts with their resource, credit, blueprint, and mod rewards, and the nature of the Nightwave acts with many geared toward mid-to-end-game players.)

 

[Atsia]

The most you'll likely be able to convince DE of is increasing the amount of starting slots.

[Maka.Bones]

Glad someone made this post!

My friends absolutely loved he space theme, the aesthetics, and the power dynamics. They especially loved the early-game gunplay, since it challenged them to be more careful with their shots (they're big into "skill-shot" oriented games/weapons)

 

The negative issue my friends had were much more basic:

1) Lack of experience gain, to level up their MK-1 gear

2) Lack of weapon selection, at MR1-MR2

3) Lack of decent mods, to help with combat (for unlocking new nodes, or farming rhino)

4) When they did get mods, they couldn't fit many of the mods, or even upgrade their mods. 

5) Poor EXP gain for leveling up their gear, discouraged them from using/trying newer and better weapons (since they wouldn't be able to use new mods)

6) Farming Rhino: A lot of the "ingredients" to build rhino, are locaed 2-5 worlds away from where you farm the original BP. They couldn't even reach these planets, because their gear held them back... They couldn't get better gear, because there wasn't much available at MR1....

7) They played on PS4, while I played on PC (so we weren't able to play together, and I wasn't able to help them) 

Addendum to issues: They weren't really able to do much in PoE, since they were still MR1 and relying on their beginner gear which wasn't able to kill a lvl 9 grineer. 

 

Suggestions to help alleviate this:

1) MK-1 weapons should be reliable for PoE daytime exploration--at the very bare minimum. Buff the MK-1 gear, for the first 5 planets--effectiveness starting to drop past mars. 

2) Make the MK-1 weapons & starter frames, start out with more mod allocation slots. (at least 10, then introduce a "potato" tutorial to upgrade it to 20) 

3) Create an EXP stage/mission, where *only* MK-1 weapons & starter warframes, receive highly increased EXP (about the equivalent to an ESO, with a booster) 

4) Beginner friendly mods, to use with the MK-1 gear (they should be effective up until the void.... at the bare minimum, they should be effective to explore PoE during the day)

5) More beginner friendly PoE quests (maybe tie PoE more into the starting tutorial, or create more beginner quests at PoE)

6) Change the material requirements for Rhino. Materials for the first warframe we build/farm, should be available from the starter worlds: Earth, mercury, and venus. 

7) Add more weapon options for MR1-MR3

8) Cross-saves for different platforms (which might be far off, but this would really help to play with more friends)

9) introduce better quests/explinations for farming & opening void relics (should actually be done after they first enter the void) And allow new baby tenno, play in the void from mercury.  (baby void stage)

10) Make a short dossier of what each new planet contains, once they beat the challenge in the stations between planets. (Brief info about the planet's background, dominant faction, events or Open Worlds, Major quests, Boss)

Edited July 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[DrivaMain]

First impressions are very important, some players instantly quits and never play again because of the "Slot and potato paywall" without even bothering to know that trading exist.

The simplest thing DE can do is to increase the starting warframe and weapon slots or allow them to earn Warframe or weapon slots through junction clearing so the new player feel like they are "Progressing".

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by DrivaMain