Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Excal Umbra and Excal Prime


Krogothian
 Share

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Just admit you are salty about not having Ecalibur Prime man.

I'm genuinely not, I didn't buy it, I don't want it.

I am finding it ridiculous that when DE have genuinely gone to the effort of saying 'this is how it is' for one of the few times they've actually confirmed anything like it, people still try to request the opposite.

It's not a situation where DE have said 'we're just not looking into that' or 'we don't want to', they've definitively said 'this doesn't happen, here's the reason'.

Unlike @Ksaero's comparison to Vacuum (which still isn't 'quality of life', by the way, the game is completely playable without it and DE has come out and said it's designed to be played without it, because we're hyper-mobile and can easily walk over things instead of having some radius of attraction), this is not a case of them just not wanting to do something, this is them having done the opposite and explaining why they've done the opposite.

In comparison, it's as if we already had 3m innate vacuum on our frames due to an oversight on their base programming, and DE actually removed it to say 'no, no frames should have innate vacuum, only Sentinels should grant that'.

And in reference to this:

52 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

So if they state the opposite your opinion would turn the opposite as well?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If DE had said, at the beginning, 'Umbra is also a Prime frame and has access to all the things a Prime frame does, including the Prime Helmet and Skin', then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We're only having it because they decided the opposite and you don't like it.

I've said it before on the thread, I'll repeat it here: I don't make the rules, but I do understand why they're there. And I specifically dislike it when people just want them changed because they just want something they currently don't have.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.  Krog you're being a bit much, you should probably chill for a bit haha.

2.  Has DE actually confirmed that they won't give a Excal head skin to Umbra?  I mean, the whole point of having Excal Prime is to show off at this point, thats it, so I can understand why people would want to use it on Umbra.  Its the same stupid reason people get signatures from celebrities.  I don't get it, but its not uncommon, and it certainly doesn't harm anyone (Short of getting mugged for said sig).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And in reference to this:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If DE had said, at the beginning, 'Umbra is also a Prime frame and has access to all the things a Prime frame does, including the Prime Helmet and Skin', then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We're only having it because they decided the opposite and you don't like it.

I've said it before on the thread, I'll repeat it here: I don't make the rules, but I do understand why they're there. And I specifically dislike it when people just want them changed because they just want something they currently don't have.

Yeah right. Wanting stuff is bad. If DE make any decision, we all should just accept it as a fact and not try to change their mind.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Just admit you are salty about not having Ecalibur Prime man.

What the? Don't be like that. You're (and others like that) are the reason I deal with some very hateful people in game. They have never once said they were jealous about not having Excalibur Prime.

That said: I disagree with mixing Prime/Umbra. We cannot equip our Prime stuff to our Regular Warframes. Prime and Umbra are two VERY different beings. Not only that, but unlike the Prime/Normal, Umbra actually has some differences in his skills also which REALLY stands out more than the usual 'Here's some Energy if you touch a Deathorb.'

While I personally wouldn't care if they do allow us to mix/match Prime/Umbra stuff, I definitely see the reasons on why they wouldn't let us do it either. 

But hey with my stance on that... I guess I must also be jealous of not having 'Ecalibur Prime' also, man.

Edited by KaijuKraid
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prime is Prime

Umbra is Umbra

As a founder, I don't object to the choice, but I don't understand why it has to happen. Seriously? Prime is bland compared to all the skins out there, of all the Deluxe and TennoCon skins, you guys want goddamn Prime on Umbra? Come on man..

And people who cited, "oh DE once overturned their decision on UV, that means we must have Prime skins too if we complained loud enough"

No. No, NO. Excalibur Prime serves as an artifact of remembrance, those who funded Warframe at its infancy, when DE took a huge gamble developing it. Deal with it,  it doesn't matter how jealous you feel, even if there are bragging a-hole founders, do not generalize us.

Umbra was deliberately created, in terms of aesthetics, functionality and lore, to please those players without.

Enough.

Edited by RamonLeeYJ
grammar
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Klaleara said:

1.  Krog you're being a bit much, you should probably chill for a bit haha.

2.  Has DE actually confirmed that they won't give a Excal head skin to Umbra?  I mean, the whole point of having Excal Prime is to show off at this point, thats it, so I can understand why people would want to use it on Umbra.  Its the same stupid reason people get signatures from celebrities.  I don't get it, but its not uncommon, and it certainly doesn't harm anyone (Short of getting mugged for said sig).

I'm chill, just tired of the same old excuses over and over that are flawed and disingenuous. Prime is weaker than Umbra, there are no news of umbras beyond Excal and that means these two line up in being 1-offs. Legit, the only reasonable argument against a cosmetic is that it doesn't fit umbra's theme and I'm literally proposing that umbra still maintains his attachments over prime so you'd still see it and know it's umbra. What's next can I not color Umbra's metallic to gold because that implies hes a prime frame? No, that's stupid you totally can and it makes no sense why I can't skin him if I can't have my excal be better than Umbra at something. I'd be stupid to make it so that Umbra pays double mod cost for primed mods because HES NOT A PRIME! 

Edited by Krogothian
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 1 hora, KaijuKraid dijo:

What the? Don't be like that. You're (and others like that) are the reason I deal with some very hateful people in game. They have never once said they were jealous about not having Excalibur Prime.

That said: I disagree with mixing Prime/Umbra. We cannot equip our Prime stuff to our Regular Warframes. Prime and Umbra are two VERY different beings. Not only that, but unlike the Prime/Normal, Umbra actually has some differences in his skills also which REALLY stands out more than the usual 'Here's some Energy if you touch a Deathorb.'

While I personally wouldn't care if they do allow us to mix/match Prime/Umbra stuff, I definitely see the reasons on why they wouldn't let us do it either. 

But hey with my stance on that... I guess I must also be jealous of not having 'Ecalibur Prime' also, man.

Whats wrong with pointing it out? They do not need to say they are jealous, its just that there is no reason other than "I don't like you bragging" for opposing the change, its only logical that if they care if we "brag" it because something is wrong with them.

We can equip our regular stuff on our primes, and they are much more different in term of stats, we can swap helmets and share cosmetics.  Ok maybe you don't care, but that is because you are not an Excalibur main or something, I care because it is my most used frame, and I know that umbra is better, and I don't care if he is, its ok, but let me use what I bought, no damage is done to no one.

"the reasons" are bs excuses.

With your stance I just know that you are weaksauce, man, "I deal with some hateful people in game", never have I ever received any hate for being a founder, only praise and honest people saying they wish they would have bought the founders pack. In the same way that I wish I would've have the money to be a grand master.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

 

With your stance I just know that you are weaksauce, man, "I deal with some hateful people in game", never have I ever received any hate for being a founder, only praise and honest people saying they wish they would have bought the founders pack. In the same way that I wish I would've have the money to be a grand master.

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I do get a ton of respect of respect also. I have a few fun stories, but I remember one person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it. We didn't even mention founder status until half an hour into a disagreement to suddenly he started bashing because he wanted to prove I was a 'Newer Player' and ended up seeing that instead.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. I play enough Excalibur Prime. Maybe not as constantly as I play Ember, Khora or Saryn, but enough. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

Edited by KaijuKraid
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, KaijuKraid said:

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I get a ton of respect. One person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

Regardless of the situation, it's only reasonable to assume that people opposed to a cosmetic are simply upset because they either dislike or can't have the cosmetic. It makes no difference otherwise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Krogothian said:

Regardless of the situation, it's only reasonable to assume that people opposed to a cosmetic are simply upset because they either dislike or can't have the cosmetic. It makes no difference otherwise. 

I disagree: I think it's actually unreasonable to assume that until proven otherwise. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Krogothian said:

Prove what? I listed two things.

Either. Birdprime has not stated they are jealous of not owning or owning Excalibur Prime. So it is unreasonable. Either way, if we want to talk about this sort of thing, it should be private message, which I think is fairer =P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KaijuKraid said:

Either. Birdprime has not stated they are jealous of not owning or owning Excalibur Prime. So it is unreasonable. Either way, if we want to talk about this sort of thing, it should be private message, which I think is fairer =P

I never said they were jealous, I said they don't want the cosmetic because they don't have it. It's not jealousy to be self interested. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Krogothian said:

I never said they were jealous, I said they don't want the cosmetic because they don't have it. It's not jealousy to be self interested. 

That's unreasonable assumption to make. Either way: If we want to keep talking about this, let's take it to a private chat. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 11 minutos, KaijuKraid dijo:

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I do get a ton of respect of respect also. I have a few fun stories, but I remember one person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it. We didn't even mention founder status until half an hour into a disagreement to suddenly he started bashing because he wanted to prove I was a 'Newer Player' and ended up seeing that instead.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. I play enough Excalibur Prime. Maybe not as constantly as I play Ember, Khora or Saryn, but enough. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

Then stop claiming you receive hate.

It is naive to asume they are saying the truth as well, how can you be sure it has nothing to do with it. They wont say it "out loud", and you were the one who quoted my spelling mistake, tell me that was not in a mocking manner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KaijuKraid said:

That's unreasonable assumption to make. Either way: If we want to keep talking about this, let's take it to a private chat. 

Unreasonable? You want to talk about unreasonable, objecting to a skin or hell a different helmet on a warframe that is free and significantly better than the paid version. I am being extremely reasonable in just wanting to show cosmetic, not nerf Umbra, not to buff EP, I just want to show a helm basically and it would change absolutely nothing for anyone that doesn't want to use it. People opposing a cosmetic option are unreasonable.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i don't have excalibur prime and probably never will, but i have to say that excalibur prime's design is one of the best minimalist prime designs out there and it's a real shame that you have to (arguably) downgrade to use it. however, you can see why DE hasn't done this because no other frame is like excalibur with three unique variants and no non-prime frame has the ability to equip prime skins and helmets.

it also seems like DE has some kind of severe allergy to excalibur and refuses to touch him in any way; take the massive demand for a prime toggle for excalibur umbra, just over a year of requests and yet not a single response from DE, and even mentioning excalibur prime is a guaranteed way to make DE run away from any thread.

Edited by Refticus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Then stop claiming you receive hate.

It is naive to asume they are saying the truth as well, how can you be sure it has nothing to do with it. They wont say it "out loud", and you were the one who quoted my spelling mistake, tell me that was not in a mocking manner.

I do receive hate. I even posted an example of the hate I get. 

You say it's naive to assume stuff, but you are exactly doing that: Assumptions. Assuming things are dangerous: Stop it. 

4 minutes ago, Krogothian said:

Unreasonable? You want to talk about unreasonable, objecting to a skin or hell a different helmet on a warframe that is free and significantly better than the paid version. I am being extremely reasonable in just wanting to show cosmetic, not nerf Umbra, not to buff EP, I just want to show a helm basically and it would change absolutely nothing for anyone that doesn't want to use it. People opposing a cosmetic option are unreasonable.

Considering I said I wouldn't mind, but I understand why they won't and agree with why they won't. I'm not being unreasonable here lol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 12 minutos, KaijuKraid dijo:

I do receive hate. I even posted an example of the hate I get. 

You say it's naive to assume stuff, but you are exactly doing that: Assumptions. Assuming things are dangerous: Stop it. 

Yeah the problem is you complain about it.
And no, I said it is naive to assume they are being honest. Thinking other people have ultrerior intentions is anything but naive.

Just tell me honestly where's the harm on me using my keyface helmet? And no excuses like lore, lorewise primes should not be able to use vanilla skins but they can. Also lore is constantly butchered by DE so its not like they take it seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KaijuKraid said:

Considering I said I wouldn't mind, but I understand why they won't and agree with why they won't. I'm not being unreasonable here lol. 

I never called you unreasonable, DE has never stated that Prime on Umbra can't happen and using base on Prime/Umbra is a bug they use as a feature, they said that in Tennocon. I just want to be reasonable and not talk about Excal Prime not being a sidegrade from Umbra, I could see him as that till the New War but with that being more than just story it's not the case, he is weaker and I know buffind him makes no sense so just let me use the skin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

No. No, NO. Excalibur Prime serves as an artifact of remembrance, those who funded Warframe at its infancy, when DE took a huge gamble developing it. Deal with it,  it doesn't matter how jealous you feel, even if there are bragging a-hole founders, do not generalize us.

Could you please make it more clear?

Who's jealous? Founders who want to use Prime skin and helmet on Umbra? Because this is the topic here. No one here is asking to make Prime skin/helmet available for everyone.

Excal Prime indeed serves as an artifact of remembrance, but with Umbra being a better choice (especially when New War comes out), isn't Prime becoming forgotten? I can totally understand why founders would want to be able to use their exclusive looks with a better performing frame, and I don't have any problems with it, but, if DE make it happen, they should also give Umbra Void passive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Could you please make it more clear?

Who's jealous? Founders who want to use Prime skin and helmet on Umbra? Because this is the topic here. No one here is asking to make Prime skin/helmet available for everyone.

Excal Prime indeed serves as an artifact of remembrance, but with Umbra being a better choice (especially when New War comes out), isn't Prime becoming forgotten? I can totally understand why founders would want to be able to use their exclusive looks with a better performing frame, and I don't have any problems with it, but, if DE make it happen, they should also give Umbra Void passive.

That's where I'm at, I just don't see how a cosmetic is this controversial when Umbra is just better than Prime. Plus the void passive is so damn minor I really just don't care if it exists or not, I just want to play with my founder stuff still. Already I need rivens to use Lato and Skana and now Excal is being relegated to irrelevance with no riven option. Feelsbadman.jpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Krogothian said:

DE has never stated that Prime on Umbra can't happen

Funnily enough, they have. They have outright stated that Umbra is not a Prime, and stated that only Prime frames can use their Prime skins and helmets. Two statements, yes, so in a way you’re technically correct in that they have never said the combined statement of ‘Umbra will not ever be able to equip the Prime helmet’, but they don’t need to.

Excal Prime is not being forgotten, he was even given a base stat buff (might have just been his armour) so that if you put Umbral Forma on him he even achieves the same stats with the same mods. And that was specifically because they didn’t want the Prime to be overshadowed by Umbra. In 99.9% of the game Umbra is not actually more powerful because his passive replaces the Swordsmanship passive of the Prime, so the same damage isn’t achievable with the same mods. Umbra’s passive may be situationally more powerful, when you want to spend longer in Operator mode than normal (or AFK the Index), but that still only makes him a common sidegrade.

When it is so hard to get a definitive ruling out of DE, to get them to absolutely confirm something rather than just ‘maybe’ or ‘we’ll see’, having them definitively say that Umbra is not a Prime and that only Prime frames can use the Prime visuals, that’s actually fairly unique in the game’s history.

They didn’t even say a proper no to Universal Vacuum, and they still don’t want it, but they only said that it ‘wasn’t being discussed internally’ or that they weren’t ‘looking into it at all’. That’s as committed as they ever are usually, and that’s why some features they don’t want to do actually make it into the game anyway.

Since this is one of the few things we can point to and say isn’t vague and has been said definitively, that’s a decision we should actually believe they’ll stand by.

Other Umbral frames are coming, despite claims that there’s been no word, they did confirm that more frames will get an Umbral variant (but not all), and the proof will be there too, they won’t have the ability to use the Prime cosmetics.

But. And there is that But as the caveat to all of this, If DE did say tomorrow that they changed their minds and Umbra can count as a Prime, and so he can use the cosmetics? I would accept that. I wouldn’t lose anything apart from that trust that DE don’t arbitrarily retract their statements. I might be annoyed that they did change one of the few definitive statements they’ve made on the topic, but I would have to accept it. Because I don’t make those rules.

I’m willing to make that statement and stick to it, are any of you willing to make the counter statement and say that for as long as DE don’t change their minds, for as long as the cosmetics for Primes are exclusive to Primes, that you in turn will accept that decision? Because I’m fairly sure that all I’ll get in response is more arguments that say you won’t accept it, think it’s the wrong decision, or claim I’m just jealous of not having something I deliberately chose not to get when I had the chance. Prove me wrong on that assumption, if you can. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

In 99.9% of the game Umbra is not actually more powerful because his passive replaces the Swordsmanship passive of the Prime, so the same damage isn’t achievable with the same mods.

I'm not picking any sides, I only want to point out that Umbra does in fact get the same passive; that being the 10% faster speed and damage of certain swords.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...