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Krogothian

Excal Umbra and Excal Prime

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7 hours ago, Atsia said:

And Sentients are such a niche portion of the total content in the game that even with the new war coming, having the innate effect is not enough to make it a complete upgrade. It's at best a minor advantage that base Excal and the Prime can easily work around with the main form of removing resistances, your operator (which also negates your argument about Exalted blade since going into spoiler mode doesn't stop the ability, actually an advantage it has over Umbra).

 

I'm saying that it won't happen because DE has said "Umbra is not a Prime". That means he has to deal with same limitations as every other non-prime, and thus doesn't get to use any of the Prime stuff, cosmetics and everything else.

But he really isn't, The sentient stuff is too niche to matter, and his passive can be argued to be a detriment. Nothing makes Umbra an objectively better choice when everything he does, we already did just fine before he came, and him having it innately doesn't invalidate anything completely.

 

It is when it's something that pretty much been already said no to be DE until proven otherwise.

Once again, I don't mind that Umbra is better but you're telling lies if you say that Umbra isn't just better. To be a sidegrade, Prime would have to be better at something but he's not and every time you talk that Prime is competitive is not unique to excal prime, it's literally available on every warframe even Umbra so if Umbra can do this, therefore it's not a boon to prime, it's a coping mechanism because prime is not as  good and you know it, stop lying. 

Yes, Umbra is not a prime, how does that change a skin? Umbra is not Tenno but here we are with the skin to make him look like Tenno. It's a cosmetic, not a lore or gameplay change.

Sentient stuff is niche now, but they made a new tileset and everything for New War, this make Umbra even better, he's better now FYI, it's just much less impactful.

DE hasn't said no to it, you're literally just making it up because you're upset you don't have Excal Prime and want him to be forgotten.

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43 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Just admit you are salty about not having Ecalibur Prime man.

I'm genuinely not, I didn't buy it, I don't want it.

I am finding it ridiculous that when DE have genuinely gone to the effort of saying 'this is how it is' for one of the few times they've actually confirmed anything like it, people still try to request the opposite.

It's not a situation where DE have said 'we're just not looking into that' or 'we don't want to', they've definitively said 'this doesn't happen, here's the reason'.

Unlike @Ksaero's comparison to Vacuum (which still isn't 'quality of life', by the way, the game is completely playable without it and DE has come out and said it's designed to be played without it, because we're hyper-mobile and can easily walk over things instead of having some radius of attraction), this is not a case of them just not wanting to do something, this is them having done the opposite and explaining why they've done the opposite.

In comparison, it's as if we already had 3m innate vacuum on our frames due to an oversight on their base programming, and DE actually removed it to say 'no, no frames should have innate vacuum, only Sentinels should grant that'.

And in reference to this:

52 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

So if they state the opposite your opinion would turn the opposite as well?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If DE had said, at the beginning, 'Umbra is also a Prime frame and has access to all the things a Prime frame does, including the Prime Helmet and Skin', then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We're only having it because they decided the opposite and you don't like it.

I've said it before on the thread, I'll repeat it here: I don't make the rules, but I do understand why they're there. And I specifically dislike it when people just want them changed because they just want something they currently don't have.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Hayzemet:

Just admit you are salty about not having Ecalibur Prime man.

I knew you all just want certain features to boast over nothing, typical.

But thanks for proving my point lmao good life to you!

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1.  Krog you're being a bit much, you should probably chill for a bit haha.

2.  Has DE actually confirmed that they won't give a Excal head skin to Umbra?  I mean, the whole point of having Excal Prime is to show off at this point, thats it, so I can understand why people would want to use it on Umbra.  Its the same stupid reason people get signatures from celebrities.  I don't get it, but its not uncommon, and it certainly doesn't harm anyone (Short of getting mugged for said sig).

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1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And in reference to this:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If DE had said, at the beginning, 'Umbra is also a Prime frame and has access to all the things a Prime frame does, including the Prime Helmet and Skin', then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We're only having it because they decided the opposite and you don't like it.

I've said it before on the thread, I'll repeat it here: I don't make the rules, but I do understand why they're there. And I specifically dislike it when people just want them changed because they just want something they currently don't have.

Yeah right. Wanting stuff is bad. If DE make any decision, we all should just accept it as a fact and not try to change their mind.

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2 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Just admit you are salty about not having Ecalibur Prime man.

What the? Don't be like that. You're (and others like that) are the reason I deal with some very hateful people in game. They have never once said they were jealous about not having Excalibur Prime.

That said: I disagree with mixing Prime/Umbra. We cannot equip our Prime stuff to our Regular Warframes. Prime and Umbra are two VERY different beings. Not only that, but unlike the Prime/Normal, Umbra actually has some differences in his skills also which REALLY stands out more than the usual 'Here's some Energy if you touch a Deathorb.'

While I personally wouldn't care if they do allow us to mix/match Prime/Umbra stuff, I definitely see the reasons on why they wouldn't let us do it either. 

But hey with my stance on that... I guess I must also be jealous of not having 'Ecalibur Prime' also, man.

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God. What can be discussed here 3 pages? If they want their Prime skin, let them use it. From this universal collapse will not happen.

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Prime is Prime

Umbra is Umbra

As a founder, I don't object to the choice, but I don't understand why it has to happen. Seriously? Prime is bland compared to all the skins out there, of all the Deluxe and TennoCon skins, you guys want goddamn Prime on Umbra? Come on man..

And people who cited, "oh DE once overturned their decision on UV, that means we must have Prime skins too if we complained loud enough"

No. No, NO. Excalibur Prime serves as an artifact of remembrance, those who funded Warframe at its infancy, when DE took a huge gamble developing it. Deal with it,  it doesn't matter how jealous you feel, even if there are bragging a-hole founders, do not generalize us.

Umbra was deliberately created, in terms of aesthetics, functionality and lore, to please those players without.

Enough.

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1 hour ago, Klaleara said:

1.  Krog you're being a bit much, you should probably chill for a bit haha.

2.  Has DE actually confirmed that they won't give a Excal head skin to Umbra?  I mean, the whole point of having Excal Prime is to show off at this point, thats it, so I can understand why people would want to use it on Umbra.  Its the same stupid reason people get signatures from celebrities.  I don't get it, but its not uncommon, and it certainly doesn't harm anyone (Short of getting mugged for said sig).

I'm chill, just tired of the same old excuses over and over that are flawed and disingenuous. Prime is weaker than Umbra, there are no news of umbras beyond Excal and that means these two line up in being 1-offs. Legit, the only reasonable argument against a cosmetic is that it doesn't fit umbra's theme and I'm literally proposing that umbra still maintains his attachments over prime so you'd still see it and know it's umbra. What's next can I not color Umbra's metallic to gold because that implies hes a prime frame? No, that's stupid you totally can and it makes no sense why I can't skin him if I can't have my excal be better than Umbra at something. I'd be stupid to make it so that Umbra pays double mod cost for primed mods because HES NOT A PRIME! 

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hace 1 hora, KaijuKraid dijo:

What the? Don't be like that. You're (and others like that) are the reason I deal with some very hateful people in game. They have never once said they were jealous about not having Excalibur Prime.

That said: I disagree with mixing Prime/Umbra. We cannot equip our Prime stuff to our Regular Warframes. Prime and Umbra are two VERY different beings. Not only that, but unlike the Prime/Normal, Umbra actually has some differences in his skills also which REALLY stands out more than the usual 'Here's some Energy if you touch a Deathorb.'

While I personally wouldn't care if they do allow us to mix/match Prime/Umbra stuff, I definitely see the reasons on why they wouldn't let us do it either. 

But hey with my stance on that... I guess I must also be jealous of not having 'Ecalibur Prime' also, man.

Whats wrong with pointing it out? They do not need to say they are jealous, its just that there is no reason other than "I don't like you bragging" for opposing the change, its only logical that if they care if we "brag" it because something is wrong with them.

We can equip our regular stuff on our primes, and they are much more different in term of stats, we can swap helmets and share cosmetics.  Ok maybe you don't care, but that is because you are not an Excalibur main or something, I care because it is my most used frame, and I know that umbra is better, and I don't care if he is, its ok, but let me use what I bought, no damage is done to no one.

"the reasons" are bs excuses.

With your stance I just know that you are weaksauce, man, "I deal with some hateful people in game", never have I ever received any hate for being a founder, only praise and honest people saying they wish they would have bought the founders pack. In the same way that I wish I would've have the money to be a grand master.

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5 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

 

With your stance I just know that you are weaksauce, man, "I deal with some hateful people in game", never have I ever received any hate for being a founder, only praise and honest people saying they wish they would have bought the founders pack. In the same way that I wish I would've have the money to be a grand master.

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I do get a ton of respect of respect also. I have a few fun stories, but I remember one person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it. We didn't even mention founder status until half an hour into a disagreement to suddenly he started bashing because he wanted to prove I was a 'Newer Player' and ended up seeing that instead.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. I play enough Excalibur Prime. Maybe not as constantly as I play Ember, Khora or Saryn, but enough. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

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3 minutes ago, KaijuKraid said:

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I get a ton of respect. One person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

Regardless of the situation, it's only reasonable to assume that people opposed to a cosmetic are simply upset because they either dislike or can't have the cosmetic. It makes no difference otherwise. 

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1 minute ago, Krogothian said:

Regardless of the situation, it's only reasonable to assume that people opposed to a cosmetic are simply upset because they either dislike or can't have the cosmetic. It makes no difference otherwise. 

I disagree: I think it's actually unreasonable to assume that until proven otherwise. 

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1 minute ago, KaijuKraid said:

I disagree: I think it's actually unreasonable to assume that until proven otherwise. 

Prove what? I listed two things.

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Just now, Krogothian said:

Prove what? I listed two things.

Either. Birdprime has not stated they are jealous of not owning or owning Excalibur Prime. So it is unreasonable. Either way, if we want to talk about this sort of thing, it should be private message, which I think is fairer =P

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Just now, KaijuKraid said:

Either. Birdprime has not stated they are jealous of not owning or owning Excalibur Prime. So it is unreasonable. Either way, if we want to talk about this sort of thing, it should be private message, which I think is fairer =P

I never said they were jealous, I said they don't want the cosmetic because they don't have it. It's not jealousy to be self interested. 

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4 minutes ago, Krogothian said:

I never said they were jealous, I said they don't want the cosmetic because they don't have it. It's not jealousy to be self interested. 

That's unreasonable assumption to make. Either way: If we want to keep talking about this, let's take it to a private chat. 

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hace 11 minutos, KaijuKraid dijo:

I'm weak sauce because I deal with the hate? Lol. OK. Yeah, I do get a ton of respect of respect also. I have a few fun stories, but I remember one person called out my Founder Status because they viewed my profile after a disagreement and other people actually ended up chewing him up for it. We didn't even mention founder status until half an hour into a disagreement to suddenly he started bashing because he wanted to prove I was a 'Newer Player' and ended up seeing that instead.

Being an 'Excalibur Main' or anything should not factor into anything. As I said: I won't mind if they do mix Umbra and Prime stuff and allow it. I would even use it. But for lore reasons and gameplay reasons, I can totally understand why they're not doing it. I play enough Excalibur Prime. Maybe not as constantly as I play Ember, Khora or Saryn, but enough. 

I'm sorry that someone has a different opinion to you. I do not need to switch to attacks or opinions on that sort of thing. But you, on the other hand have. Don't go around calling people jealous because they disagree with an opinion that had NOTHING to do with their or their not owning Excalibur Prime.

Then stop claiming you receive hate.

It is naive to asume they are saying the truth as well, how can you be sure it has nothing to do with it. They wont say it "out loud", and you were the one who quoted my spelling mistake, tell me that was not in a mocking manner.

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Just now, KaijuKraid said:

That's unreasonable assumption to make. Either way: If we want to keep talking about this, let's take it to a private chat. 

Unreasonable? You want to talk about unreasonable, objecting to a skin or hell a different helmet on a warframe that is free and significantly better than the paid version. I am being extremely reasonable in just wanting to show cosmetic, not nerf Umbra, not to buff EP, I just want to show a helm basically and it would change absolutely nothing for anyone that doesn't want to use it. People opposing a cosmetic option are unreasonable.

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i don't have excalibur prime and probably never will, but i have to say that excalibur prime's design is one of the best minimalist prime designs out there and it's a real shame that you have to (arguably) downgrade to use it. however, you can see why DE hasn't done this because no other frame is like excalibur with three unique variants and no non-prime frame has the ability to equip prime skins and helmets.

it also seems like DE has some kind of severe allergy to excalibur and refuses to touch him in any way; take the massive demand for a prime toggle for excalibur umbra, just over a year of requests and yet not a single response from DE, and even mentioning excalibur prime is a guaranteed way to make DE run away from any thread.

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6 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Then stop claiming you receive hate.

It is naive to asume they are saying the truth as well, how can you be sure it has nothing to do with it. They wont say it "out loud", and you were the one who quoted my spelling mistake, tell me that was not in a mocking manner.

I do receive hate. I even posted an example of the hate I get. 

You say it's naive to assume stuff, but you are exactly doing that: Assumptions. Assuming things are dangerous: Stop it. 

4 minutes ago, Krogothian said:

Unreasonable? You want to talk about unreasonable, objecting to a skin or hell a different helmet on a warframe that is free and significantly better than the paid version. I am being extremely reasonable in just wanting to show cosmetic, not nerf Umbra, not to buff EP, I just want to show a helm basically and it would change absolutely nothing for anyone that doesn't want to use it. People opposing a cosmetic option are unreasonable.

Considering I said I wouldn't mind, but I understand why they won't and agree with why they won't. I'm not being unreasonable here lol. 

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hace 12 minutos, KaijuKraid dijo:

I do receive hate. I even posted an example of the hate I get. 

You say it's naive to assume stuff, but you are exactly doing that: Assumptions. Assuming things are dangerous: Stop it. 

Yeah the problem is you complain about it.
And no, I said it is naive to assume they are being honest. Thinking other people have ultrerior intentions is anything but naive.

Just tell me honestly where's the harm on me using my keyface helmet? And no excuses like lore, lorewise primes should not be able to use vanilla skins but they can. Also lore is constantly butchered by DE so its not like they take it seriously.

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1 minute ago, KaijuKraid said:

Considering I said I wouldn't mind, but I understand why they won't and agree with why they won't. I'm not being unreasonable here lol. 

I never called you unreasonable, DE has never stated that Prime on Umbra can't happen and using base on Prime/Umbra is a bug they use as a feature, they said that in Tennocon. I just want to be reasonable and not talk about Excal Prime not being a sidegrade from Umbra, I could see him as that till the New War but with that being more than just story it's not the case, he is weaker and I know buffind him makes no sense so just let me use the skin.

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7 hours ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

No. No, NO. Excalibur Prime serves as an artifact of remembrance, those who funded Warframe at its infancy, when DE took a huge gamble developing it. Deal with it,  it doesn't matter how jealous you feel, even if there are bragging a-hole founders, do not generalize us.

Could you please make it more clear?

Who's jealous? Founders who want to use Prime skin and helmet on Umbra? Because this is the topic here. No one here is asking to make Prime skin/helmet available for everyone.

Excal Prime indeed serves as an artifact of remembrance, but with Umbra being a better choice (especially when New War comes out), isn't Prime becoming forgotten? I can totally understand why founders would want to be able to use their exclusive looks with a better performing frame, and I don't have any problems with it, but, if DE make it happen, they should also give Umbra Void passive.

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40 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Could you please make it more clear?

Who's jealous? Founders who want to use Prime skin and helmet on Umbra? Because this is the topic here. No one here is asking to make Prime skin/helmet available for everyone.

Excal Prime indeed serves as an artifact of remembrance, but with Umbra being a better choice (especially when New War comes out), isn't Prime becoming forgotten? I can totally understand why founders would want to be able to use their exclusive looks with a better performing frame, and I don't have any problems with it, but, if DE make it happen, they should also give Umbra Void passive.

That's where I'm at, I just don't see how a cosmetic is this controversial when Umbra is just better than Prime. Plus the void passive is so damn minor I really just don't care if it exists or not, I just want to play with my founder stuff still. Already I need rivens to use Lato and Skana and now Excal is being relegated to irrelevance with no riven option. Feelsbadman.jpg.

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