What is the logic behind riven nerfs?

[MatteroftheHatter]

They keep nerfing the Lanka and rubico rivens......why?

Do they even know or care where these two weapons are used and why?

or they just see..."oh lanka and rubico are being used alot...Nerf it"?

By doing this they are making sure that only a select few people with the absolute top tier rivens can enjoy the Eidolon hunts..

I had "Good enough" rivens....now they suck!

What else are we supposed to use? The stug?

What exactly is this dumb rationale of "make everything suck"....just like their attempt to nerf the Itzal blink.

They border on Authorotarianism with their "You should play how and what "we" want you to play"....no?

If you were making cars....would you nerf you best models? Make their brakes suck, lower the quality of the airbags, make the gear box faulty?

or do you try to make the other models as close to your best one?

 

 

[MatteroftheHatter]

To add......

Their nerf rationale is a vicious circle of "suck".

This weapon is popular...make it suck....people move to the next weapon....make that suck.....so on an so forth.

 

[Drachnyn]

Well the entire outset of rivens was to help less used weapons to compete with the stronger ones. Not to help those stronger weapons to be even more broken. And the weapons themselves were not touched at all, my Rubico Prime and Lanka are still the same as they were. Only their riven disposition went down, frankly as they should.

[Arland]

The very purpose of Rivens is to make lesser used weapons more usable, so yes, by their design they are in fact lowering the disposition of Lanka and Rubico Rivens because they are being used to much.  You know, because it defies the entire purpose of the Rivens.

[GrimSanji]

you don't "need" lanka and/or rubico maxed with a super riven to enjoy eidolon hunts. i use a non-riven vectis prime and i do just fine.
as the people above stated. the riven system is to make the least used weapons viable when compared to the really good weapons.

in addition they arn't going to nerf itzel. at tenno con they showed off every archwing is getting the blink. if anything thats a buff. the itzel will get a new ability to replace the blink and still keep the blink.

[peterc3]

25 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

They keep nerfing the Lanka and rubico rivens......why?

They said they would. Repeatedly. It was part of the system since the beginning, if not the end result much later.

26 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

 Do they even know or care where these two weapons are used and why?

Do you?

26 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

By doing this they are making sure that only a select few people with the absolute top tier rivens can enjoy the Eidolon hunts..

This speaks more to your skills as a player than anything against DE, just so you know.

[Methanoid]

31 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

They keep nerfing the Lanka and rubico rivens......why?

Do they even know or care where these two weapons are used and why?

or they just see..."oh lanka and rubico are being used alot...Nerf it"?

By doing this they are making sure that only a select few people with the absolute top tier rivens can enjoy the Eidolon hunts..

I had "Good enough" rivens....now they suck!

What else are we supposed to use? The stug?

What exactly is this dumb rationale of "make everything suck"....just like their attempt to nerf the Itzal blink.

They border on Authorotarianism with their "You should play how and what "we" want you to play"....no?

If you were making cars....would you nerf you best models? Make their brakes suck, lower the quality of the airbags, make the gear box faulty?

or do you try to make the other models as close to your best one?

which part of the riven system did you not understand, from day 1 it has been advertised to work exactly as it currently does which is to make rivens for less powerful/used stuff more powerful and rivens for more powerful/used weapons weaker, this will always happen so there is no "nerf" to speak of, its just the intended riven re-balancing which has been open and clear from day 1.

[MatteroftheHatter]

14 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They said they would. Repeatedly. It was part of the system since the beginning, if not the end result much later.

Do you?

This speaks more to your skills as a player than anything against DE, just so you know.

Since when does a riven have anything to do with "skill"?

What do you not understand about "making things suck"?

Is "Make it suck" not the end result?

 

[MatteroftheHatter]

I knew I would get fan boys and dogmatic repititions.

You might as well* recite the bible.

When a baseline has been established....and they downgrade things....that logically and automatically equates to "Make it suck"

Why does "Balance" have to equate to "Make it suck"?

Didn't their Itzal nerf attempt equate to "Make it suck"?

Edited July 8, 2019 by MatteroftheHatter

[(PSN)Kamranos]

If you need the riven on a lanka or rubico, then you aren’t using it right. Both of those rifles, as are most weapons in the game, are great without riven mods.

A disposition change doesn’t suddenly make the stats on the mod stop being useful. “Making it suck” would be if your (cc, cd, ms) riven turned into (+fire +damage to grineer -ms). Stats make the riven, even if the values drop slightly, they are still useful and don’t “suck”.

I honestly think riven mods need to be removed from the game altogether as they have done nothing positive to the game. They destroyed the trade market, broke the concept of what makes a weapon good, and created nothing but salt among the community. I get wanting to give less used weapons an added appeal, but the system is broken and needs a clean sweep. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by (PS4)Kamranos

[Ahniar]

Inb4lock

No point in getting over dramatic over that. Experiment with new toys if your old ones got broken, you might find them surprisingly effective. 

Also... Why so mad? Is just game. O.o

[Phatose]

8 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

I knew I would get fan boys and dogmatic repititions.

You might as well* recite the bible.

When a baseline has been established....and they downgrade things....that logically and automatically equates to "Make it suck" 

Why does "Balance" have to equate to "Make it suck"?

Didn't their Itzal nerf attempt equate to "Make it suck"?

It doesn't.  The riven changes were nerfs and buffs - see

DE has actually made a brilliant balancing move with Riven disposition changes being based on use.   The community has shown itself for years to be excellent at determining meta, and then using them.  If something is being used heavily, it's simply because it is more powerful then other options.  To equalize, you have to bring it down or everything else up - and the latter ends up equivalent to the former, because you have to buff enemies to make up for buffing players to that extent.

[Drachnyn]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb MatteroftheHatter:

When a baseline has been established....and they downgrade things....that logically and automatically equates to "Make it suck"

Rivens can never be considered the new baseline of a weapon. That is always the weapon without rivens.

[Lahared]

3 hours ago, Arland said:

The very purpose of Rivens is to make lesser used weapons more usable, so yes, by their design they are in fact lowering the disposition of Lanka and Rubico Rivens because they are being used to much.  You know, because it defies the entire purpose of the Rivens.

 

On 2019-07-05 at 8:55 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Tetra: 1.5->1.45

If that is indeed the case, what is that? A minor nudge to "balance" it out?

[MatteroftheHatter]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

If you need the riven on a lanka or rubico, then you aren’t using it right. Both of those rifles, as are most weapons in the game, are great without riven mods.

A disposition change doesn’t suddenly make the stats on the mod stop being useful. “Making it suck” would be if your (cc, cd, ms) riven turned into (+fire +damage to grineer -ms). Stats make the riven, even if the values drop slightly, they are still useful and don’t “suck”.

I honestly think riven mods need to be removed from the game altogether as they have done nothing positive to the game. They destroyed the trade market, broke the concept of what makes a weapon good, and created nothing but salt among the community. I get wanting to give less used weapons an added appeal, but the system is broken and needs a clean sweep. 

I do agree with you that riven mods were a flawed concept from start....because they have come full circle...right back to "Make it suck" which is what they wanted to avoid in the first place. Because they had the choice of "Improve other weapons" or "Make the good ones suck"....so they made rivens instead.....now they are right back where they started...They would've chosen "Make it suck", they are choosing "Make it suck".

 

I don't however agree when you say "You're not doing it right".

 

[(PSN)meow121325]

it more or less isnt DE being dumb it is more or less how they set up the system it just is a blanket not a hair brush it just looks at the popularity of weapons not where those popular weapons are being used now mass majority of popular weapons are used in general content and a small ish minority of them are niche content like rubico and lanka they are use pretty much only for the open world bosses (eidolons and orb mothers) but are heavily used for them. if they made it popularity and percent of content it is used in the changes would be more balancing though it is a little harder to set up something like that while it is easier to just do popularity/percent of players that use it

[MatteroftheHatter]

7 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Rivens can never be considered the new baseline of a weapon. That is always the weapon without rivens.

You're reciting dogma again....Baseline is "With a riven this weapon can now do this...its amazing...I love it...blah blah blah"

with riven nerfs now it goes "It's crap compared to what it was"

Take rivens entirely out of the equation and you will end up with the same results.

 

 

[MatteroftheHatter]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)meow121325 said:

it more or less isnt DE being dumb it is more or less how they set up the system it just is a blanket not a hair brush it just looks at the popularity of weapons not where those popular weapons are being used now mass majority of popular weapons are used in general content and a small ish minority of them are niche content like rubico and lanka they are use pretty much only for the open world bosses (eidolons and orb mothers) but are heavily used for them. if they made it popularity and percent of content it is used in the changes would be more balancing though it is a little harder to set up something like that while it is easier to just do popularity/percent of players that use it

Trust me.....It is a simple SQL query to see which mission types a certain weapon is being used for.

Which is why this is so infuriating.

[Drachnyn]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb MatteroftheHatter:

You're reciting dogma again....Baseline is "With a riven this weapon can now do this...its amazing...I love it...blah blah blah"

with riven nerfs now it goes "It's crap compared to what it was"

Take rivens entirely out of the equation and you will end up with the same results.

No that's just facts. A baseline must be achievable for everyone which is literally impossible with the riven system.

And trust me if I could i would definitely take rivens out of the game.

[MatteroftheHatter]

28 minutes ago, Phatose said:

It doesn't.  The riven changes were nerfs and buffs - see

DE has actually made a brilliant balancing move with Riven disposition changes being based on use.   The community has shown itself for years to be excellent at determining meta, and then using them.  If something is being used heavily, it's simply because it is more powerful then other options.  To equalize, you have to bring it down or everything else up - and the latter ends up equivalent to the former, because you have to buff enemies to make up for buffing players to that extent.

You are right....If they buff weapons they will have to buff enemies as well. They actually need a more dynamic system so that lower ranking players do not find it too difficult.

However there is still the question of the psychological aspect...."A weapon was not downgraded" is still different and better  from "Enemies got buffed" vs "Weapons were made to suck" even though functionally they equate to the same end result of "Balance".

 

 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

52 minutes ago, MatteroftheHatter said:

I knew I would get fan boys and dogmatic repititions.

You might as well* recite the bible.

When a baseline has been established....and they downgrade things....that logically and automatically equates to "Make it suck"

Why does "Balance" have to equate to "Make it suck"?

Didn't their Itzal nerf attempt equate to "Make it suck"?

That "baseline" doesn't exist considering that riven mods have been promised to change with every Prime access.

Also, they never actually nerfed Itzal, only joked about it.

[MatteroftheHatter]

4 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

No that's just facts. A baseline must be achievable for everyone which is literally impossible with the riven system.

And trust me if I could i would definitely take rivens out of the game.

Wrong...It is very much possible and the current case because alot of people have their favorite weapons and good rivens for them. And alot of those rivens tend to be similar, maybe not "Exactly" the same...but very similar...which is enough to establish a baseline.

Watch the Partners and watch the youtubers...A majority of them do not like DE's nerf rationale.

This wasn't about "oh my gawd...my especfic riven got nerfed...i feel so bad...bla blah blah", this was about their rationale.

The reason they decided not to nerf the Itzal was because of community backlash, because the community knew exactly how, why and where the Itzal was being used and they made themselves heard.

The same needs to happen either for rivens or the weapons themselves.

 

[MatteroftheHatter]

7 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

That "baseline" doesn't exist considering that riven mods have been promised to change with every Prime access.

Also, they never actually nerfed Itzal, only joked about it.

The "Baseline" does indeed exist....the "Baseline" exists in the "Meta"

What they "Intended" or "Promised" has little or nothing to do with everything that has happend since rivens came out.

 

Also please read my reply above to the user Drachnyn

Edited July 9, 2019 by MatteroftheHatter

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Just now, MatteroftheHatter said:

The "Baseline" does indeed exist....the "Baseline" exists in the "Meta"

Also please read my reply above to the user Drachnyn

So form a baseline out of a popular consensus for what an RNG mod should do for an RNG weapon, not the mod's intended purpose but the one you found for it?

Didn't they send death threats to Scott over itzal? "Making themselves heard" is more like "throwing a temper tantrum."

[LarryYourWaiter]

Oh no! Riven dispo changes made the rubico and lanka suck, did they?  Oh no wait, they’re still harbingers of death.

i dunno about you, but most of us are wading through content like the archangel of death.  Slight riven dispo changes aren’t going to change that.  We are perfectly capable of downing eidolons without rivens.  

Rivens.  Working as intended.