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Hayzemet

Revisiting all frames: Trinity Edition

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-I believe that trinity is a very powerful frame, and super useful, but I also believe she has an archaic skill set, so I had the idea to create a rework suggestion for her.

-First of all let’s see what is the intended role she has ingame, and in what ways she is fulfilling the role:

  • As far as I am concerned Trinity is the ultimate support frame, and that's it, she has no other role, she can tank pretty well, but that is not a role for warframe, that is just a necessity. But the way in which her role is accomplished can be changed for a more streamlined and dynamic alternative.

Now moving forward, What skills are of maximum importance for Trinity?

  • Blessing: Full heal + damage reduction
  • Energy Vampire: Quick burst of high amounts of energy

These functions cannot be removed from her kit at any cost, maybe tweaked a bit, but nothing major.

 

-Now I am going to talk about all of her skills and what could be changed to make her better, imho ofc, what disadvantages they have etc.

 

Triage: Revive allies 20% faster. In my opinion this is not that great, and kinda insignificant.

My suggestion: Buff it to 50% or rework.
Rework Idea: Each time you revive someone, you and your target will gain 7% multiplicative damage reduction for the rest of the mission, capping at 21%. If you are playing solo, then you automatically gain 7% damage reduction at the beginning of the mission, and every time you die it increases up to 21%.

 

Well of life: Grants lifesteal, caps at 400 hp. Awful ability, no one uses it, it is completely outshined by the other million ways of healing ourselves nowadays.

My suggestion: Scratch it, create a new ability.

New AbilityWeapon Consecration: On cast Trinity will enchant her weapons, and for the duration of the ability, her attacks will be enhanced. Stunning their target, and dealing percentage based true damage to them. Targets affected by this ability will have a cooldown period for the ability to work on them again.

Strength: 5%/7%/9%/11% of Max Health (Affected by power strength)

Duration: Ability 6/8/10/12s (Affected by power duration), Stun 1.5/2/2.5/3s (Affected by power duration) Enemy cooldown 9s (Unaffected by power duration)

Cost: 35 energy

  • Now to add a fun element I believe that this ability could have a meter, let's call it consecration meter. Based maybe on the number of unique enemies hit or maybe by just enemies affected, true damage dealt, idk this should be balanced after testing. Now when the meter is full, then Trinity will empower her next ability cast after Weapon Consecration.
  1. Weapon consecration: Every member of the party gets the effect with 100% extended stun duration, and with a greater amount of true damage dealt. (+50% to original value)
  2. Energy vampire: gain double the amount of charges (10), party gets energy drain resistance for 12s. (Affected by power duration)
  3. Link: Link will now also link your party members, and the ability will grant 15-20% additive status chance to all of their attacks for the duration of the ability.
  4. Blessing: Extended duration (+5 flat seconds, unaffected by power duration) and grants extra damage reduction (up to 90%).

 

Energy Vampire: Grants 100 energy, costs 50 energy, 25 m range. Disadvantages: needs target and does minimal true damage to it, also stuns them. Absolutely great ability, no doubt about it. But having to recast it every second is tiresome, my suggestions are, some tweaks.

Rework idea: (maybe rename it) It is now a self cast, similar to null star, it just gives you 5 charges (at all levels unaffected by mods) hitting an enemy expends a charge restoring 12/15/17/20 energy (affected by power strength), now if trinity does not use a charge and enemies are nearby the charge will do like null star and explode in energy automatically every 6 seconds (unnafected by power duration). And if there are no enemies in range then the charges stick around until there are. (Killing an enemy may or may not explode all charges - balance required). Pulse radius is increased to 15/20/25/30m and the source is now trinity, or radius stays and the source is the killed or hit enemy. (Affected by power range).

 

Link: Very nice ability, just needs two things, make it recastable to reset it while you reset blessing, or make it toggleable, and tweak the damage transfer numbers, or even better just forget about them. Keep the status resistance and damage reduction. The damage is negligible, maybe keep the status reflect tho. Now instead of the damage reflection have the damage be stored, capped of course. So when you recast or when the ability ends (X seconds happen if toggleable) it will grant some amount of shields, and overshields to the squad. Also increase the max number of linked targets to 4-6.

 

Blessing: Just keep it as it is or all hell will break loose. Maybe increase duration to 12 seconds on max level to harmonize better with Link and rest of the kit.

 

 

-Needless to say I am not a balance expert, and well this is just my idea, I would love to read your opinions / suggestions / thoughts. All frames are on the way as well.

Edited by Hayzemet
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18 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Blessing: Just keep it as it is or all hell will break loose. Maybe increase duration to 12 seconds on max level to harmonize better with Link and rest of the kit.

Nope. As long as Blessing is a thing, Well of Life will remain useless. I propose that Blessing no longer heals, but it will instantly revive any fallen teammates in your Affinity Range and give them status immunity and damage reduction for a short amount of time. Well of Life heals, Blessing revives and revitalizes. For balancing reasons, Blessing would have no effect on healthy teammates, although this could be debatable. 

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1 hour ago, Hayzemet said:

[Passive] - Triage: Revive allies 20% faster. In my opinion this is not that great, and kinda insignificant.

My suggestion: Buff it to 50% or rework.
Rework Idea: Each time you revive someone, you and your target will gain 7% multiplicative damage reduction for the rest of the mission, capping at 21%. If you are playing solo, then you automatically gain 7% damage reduction at the beginning of the mission, and every time you die it increases up to 21%.

While I agree that Trinity's current passive is underwhelming and honestly unnoticeable; changing the passive to give damage bonuses based on allies dying seems strange for a healer. It would make more sense for the passive to remain focused on saving allies. I believe it would be more helpful for Trinity to have a set number (three, for example) of instant revives per mission, functioning identically to how the Mending Soul node instant revives from the Vazarin focus school do.

 

1 hour ago, Hayzemet said:

[1] Well of life: Grants lifesteal, caps at 400 hp. Awful ability, no one uses it, it is completely outshined by the other million ways of healing ourselves nowadays.

My suggestion: Scratch it, create a new ability.

New AbilityWeapon Consecration: On cast Trinity will enchant her weapons, and for the duration of the ability, her attacks will be enhanced. Stunning their target, and dealing percentage based true damage to them. Targets affected by this ability will have a cooldown period for the ability to work on them again.

Strength: 5%/7%/9%/11% of Max Health (Affected by power strength)

Duration: Ability 6/8/10/12s (Affected by power duration), Stun 1.5/2/2.5/3s (Affected by power duration) Enemy cooldown 9s (Unaffected by power duration)

Cost: 35 energy

  • Now to add a fun element I believe that this ability could have a meter, let's call it consecration meter. Based maybe on the number of unique enemies hit or maybe by just enemies affected, true damage dealt, idk this should be balanced after testing. Now when the meter is full, then Trinity will empower her next ability cast after Weapon Consecration.
  1. Weapon consecration: Every member of the party gets the effect with 100% extended stun duration, and with a greater amount of true damage dealt. (+50% to original value)
  2. Energy vampire: gain double the amount of charges (10), party gets energy drain resistance for 12s. (Affected by power duration)
  3. Link: Link will now also link your party members, and the ability will grant 15-20% additive status chance to all of their attacks for the duration of the ability.
  4. Blessing: Extended duration (+5 flat seconds, unaffected by power duration) and grants extra damage reduction (up to 90%).

Yes, I would go as far as saying it is likely the most unused ability in the game (relatively). However, I believe it is important for Trinity to remain a pure support frame, adding damage abilities ruins the balance that is achieved from her being as powerful of a support as she currently is.

I like the idea of Trinity empowering her allies attacks with unique effects; sticking true to the vampire theme - [1] Well of Life (would be renamed) could provide the lifesteal to attacks made by allies rather than marking enemies for lifesteal. Alternatively, since it's been well established that the ability is worthless because of [4] Blessing, allies attacks could "mark" allies with Confusion (radiation proc). The second option would be more realistic and could synergize very nicely with the augment Pool of Life.

 

1 hour ago, Hayzemet said:

[2] Energy Vampire:

Energy Vampire is fine how it is, it does not need to be reworked.

 

1 hour ago, Hayzemet said:

[3] Link: Very nice ability, just needs two things, make it recastable to reset it while you reset blessing, or make it toggleable, and tweak the damage transfer numbers, or even better just forget about them. Keep the status resistance and damage reduction. The damage is negligible, maybe keep the status reflect tho. Now instead of the damage reflection have the damage be stored, capped of course. So when you recast or when the ability ends (X seconds happen if toggleable) it will grant some amount of shields, and overshields to the squad. Also increase the max number of linked targets to 4-6.

I would love to see the ability changed to work on allies instead of enemies (maintaining the support theme), here is my suggested change: Trinity would link with 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 of the closest Tenno within Affinity Range over a duration 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 seconds, reducing incoming damage by 50% / 60% / 70% / 75% and preventing Status Effects (this would function similar to how the Ack and Brunt's Electromagnetic Shielding augment works).

I agree that it should be re-castable. 

 

1 hour ago, Hayzemet said:

[4] Blessing: Just keep it as it is or all hell will break loose. Maybe increase duration to 12 seconds on max level to harmonize better with Link and rest of the kit.

Honestly, you could just remove the damage reduction that the ability provides, It's strong enough as a burst heal. Adding the damage reduction to the [3] Link suggestion made above would be an appropriate change.

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hace 2 minutos, TehGrief dijo:

While I agree that Trinity's current passive is underwhelming and honestly unnoticeable; changing the passive to give damage bonuses based on allies dying seems strange for a healer. It would make more sense for the passive to remain focused on saving allies. I believe it would be more helpful for Trinity to have a set number (three, for example) of instant revives per mission, functioning identically to how the Mending Soul node instant revives from the Vazarin focus school do.

It's damage reduction.

 

The suggestion I gave is not about damage but about CC, actually the damage is minimal considering you can only use it once every 9 seconds. And you could even remove it and just leave the cc in.

Energy vampire needs to be recasted and aimed, and it is good but it can be better.

Your link rework is fine but no one wants to have blessing changed. Also trinity then would become extremly fragile by not being able to stack her damage reductions.

Blessing just as a healing burst seems too bland. I think it is the best ability trinity currently has.

 

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I can agree with some of the assessment, as well as some of the suggestions: I completely agree that Trinity's kit is archaic, and needs to change to be more fluid and fully usable. However, I'd also question some of the core assumptions: I don't think Energy Vampire is all that untouchable, because the ability is broken in how it trivializes the Energy economy, yet altogether not all that interesting anymore, as our Energy economy has become trivial enough via other means. I also agree with TehGrief that reworking Trinity should be an opportunity to really flesh out her identity as a protective support, rather than keep her max health true damage. Here are my thoughts on the proposed changes:

  • I agree Triage isn't spectacular, especially with Operator Void Mode being better for reviving, though I feel giving Trinity damage reduction based on her or her teammates dying is a bit of an anti-pattern (players shouldn't want to die just to power up Trinity). 21% damage reduction is really low by Warframe standards, but that's obviously an easy number to change.
  • I like the idea of giving Trinity more things to do with her weapons, because I do think weapons are in fact crucial to her playstyle (they're her only real way of dealing damage, and play into her EV + kill loop). However, as with TehGrief, I think the implementation here goes against her overall theme as a defensive support, and in particular I really dislike the notion of max health true damage (including on her current EV), which I feel has no place in a game like Warframe that already struggles to make enemies scale against the player. The damage amount and type can be changed, but I think the core design of the ability isn't necessarily the best fit for Trinity.
  • I kind of like the Null Star model of expending charges to regain Energy, and I think that would synergize well with Link's emphasis on close proximity to enemies, though I also question the need for Energy restoration in the first place, particularly since with Trinity it makes her the best frame at two entirely different niches: Blessing's on-demand healing/DR makes her the best defensive support in the game, whereas Energy Vampire's bonkers Energy restoration makes her the best frame for enabling any other frame, including offensive frames. Thus, I'd personally break with her current kit and scrap her Energy restoration entirely.
  • The changes to Link seem pretty nice, and I agree that currently recasting it constantly is a bit of a pain. No real complaints here.
  • No major complaints to buffing Blessing's base duration by 2 seconds, though as mentioned by others, I do think it should have its damage reduction removed entirely, as its burst heal is already ludicrously powerful (and I don't think it would make the ability bland, either; it could actually improve it significantly by avoiding abuse cases of Trinity spamming the ability for permanent team-wide 75% DR).

Personally, I'd approach Trinity in the following way:

  • Passive - Savior: Trinity can revive allies from any range (or from a significantly increased range).
  • 1 - Purify: Trinity cleanses the target ally of status effects (or herself, if no target is selected). If at least one status effect was cleansed, the target gains significant damage reduction for a duration.
    • Augment - Purge: Trinity can target enemies to significantly reduce their damage output and speed for a duration, up to a maximum number of targets.
  •  2 - Absolve: Trinity marks the target enemy without alerting them. If that enemy attacks, they are stunned and suspended in the air for a duration, becoming pacified when the effects end. Killing the target while they are suspended chains the mark to nearby enemies, repeatable indefinitely.
    • Augment - Absolving Shield: Killing marked targets causes them to pulse, restoring shields to Trinity and allies in range, and providing overshields.
  • 3 - Unity: Trinity links to the target unit, and can link up to three targets at once (can also hold to automatically link to three targets). Any beneficial effect on any linked unit is applied to Trinity and linked allies, and any negative effect is applied to linked enemies, with damage receiving a multiplier (affected by Power Strength).
    • Augment - Abating Unity: Unchanged from Abating Link.
  • 4 - Blessing: Trinity heals all allies and herself for a portion of their missing health and shields.
    • Augment - Miracle: Blessing also revives downed allies. Each ally has a cooldown before this effect can apply again.

The general idea being to reduce the number of "mandatory" repeated casts, make all of Trinity's kit useful, and emphasize her identity as a protector, while retaining her key elements (namely, marking targets to kill them in quick sequence, and keeping an eye on players' health bars for clutch heals with Blessing).

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hace 2 horas, Teridax68 dijo:
  • Passive - Savior: Trinity can revive allies from any range (or from a significantly increased range).
  • 1 - Purify: Trinity cleanses the target ally of status effects (or herself, if no target is selected). If at least one status effect was cleansed, the target gains significant damage reduction for a duration.
    • Augment - Purge: Trinity can target enemies to significantly reduce their damage output and speed for a duration, up to a maximum number of targets.
  •  2 - Absolve: Trinity marks the target enemy without alerting them. If that enemy attacks, they are stunned and suspended in the air for a duration, becoming pacified when the effects end. Killing the target while they are suspended chains the mark to nearby enemies, repeatable indefinitely.
    • Augment - Absolving Shield: Killing marked targets causes them to pulse, restoring shields to Trinity and allies in range, and providing overshields.
  • 3 - Unity: Trinity links to the target unit, and can link up to three targets at once (can also hold to automatically link to three targets). Any beneficial effect on any linked unit is applied to Trinity and linked allies, and any negative effect is applied to linked enemies, with damage receiving a multiplier (affected by Power Strength).
    • Augment - Abating Unity: Unchanged from Abating Link.
  • 4 - Blessing: Trinity heals all allies and herself for a portion of their missing health and shields.
    • Augment - Miracle: Blessing also revives downed allies. Each ally has a cooldown before this effect can apply again.

I see, idk man, that kit sounds underwhelming. all of you are forgetting how fragile is trinity without double 75% damage reduction.

 

Passive: Its ok but why punish solo players that like trinity like myself? And reviving is already easy with Vazarin.

Purify, sounds very good, except for single targeted aproach, maybe have it be a beam wide enough to not waste time aiming, or make it aoe around you. And when in link automatic.also how much DR are you imagining?

Absolve: I do not like supsended in air enemies, but everything else seems pretty reasonable. Maybe how many chains range? this is completely broken if you think about it lol. 

Unity: Ok, but why limit the link make it link 3 automatically, no holding. Also no, you need damage reduction, on your own. She needs to be a good frame solo or in a team, like all good frames are. And how many enemies can you link, are enemy links and ally links shared? Damage reflection is always, always undwerwhelming, status reflection is barely good.

Blessing: no, lol, just why the nerf, she will never be used this way. And the revive sounds good but again, what if im solo, what if my team mates are actually good. Same thing that with the passive, and both makes it redudndant.

 

I completely disagree with nerfing both her niches at the same time as you have done, the reason why Trinity is still played is because of how great her 2 and 4 are. You remove her energy source and gave her a pretty op CC, ok thats fine, but you also removed her DR completely you willl be oneshoted every time. And more so if you don't even have energy on demand, that is also a reason why trinity is able to survive.

Also I disagree wiht her being a full support frame, that is archaic on itself and also completely useless for solo players. Look at the new support types, Equinox has options, Oberon has options, Wisp is a god frame, she has everything except hard survibability, on her own. And well lets say she is full defensive support. Then why did you nerf her support capabilities?

I believe that maybe burst heal + dr is too powerful, and auto energy is also too powerful. If that was the case, I would make blessing her 3, ony burst heal, full heal, or have it do somehting else. And Link goes to 4, giving her the DR she needs to survive, so about 95% but with huge range. And tbh in that case just make her 1 your 1 and that would be enough. But how is that on par with the new designed frames that have ability synergy?

In the  case of my 1, if don't like to soiling her theme, then just remove the damage component. Change it on-hit heal. And why do you think her 1 empowering the other abilities is not fitting to her design?

 

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3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

I see, idk man, that kit sounds underwhelming. all of you are forgetting how fragile is trinity without double 75% damage reduction.

Trinity is by far my most played frame; I'm well aware of how fragile she is in current high levels without her 93.75% damage reduction. That isn't something that should be solved by giving every frame massive damage reduction, as the problem is systemic to enemies, but nonetheless, the kit I'm proposing still has DR.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Passive: Its ok but why punish solo players that like trinity like myself? And reviving is already easy with Vazarin.

Why is anyone getting punished here? Sure, reviving can be made even easier with Vazarin, but a range boost would synergize with it nonetheless.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Purify, sounds very good, except for single targeted aproach, maybe have it be a beam wide enough to not waste time aiming, or make it aoe around you. And when in link automatic.also how much DR are you imagining?

I think 90% damage reduction max would likely be the number to set.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Absolve: I do not like supsended in air enemies, but everything else seems pretty reasonable. Maybe how many chains range? this is completely broken if you think about it lol. 

The chain range could afford to be reasonably long, and yeah, a repeatable stun would be powerful, but that's also kind of the point here, as my intention is not to nerf Trinity so much as just make her gameplay healthy.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Unity: Ok, but why limit the link make it link 3 automatically, no holding. Also no, you need damage reduction, on your own. She needs to be a good frame solo or in a team, like all good frames are. And how many enemies can you link, are enemy links and ally links shared? Damage reflection is always, always undwerwhelming, status reflection is barely good.

The real question is: why do we need Trinity to link to more than 3 targets? The limit here is meant to be for total links, so both allies and enemies. Being able to manually link to targets means you'd have better control over who to transfer status to (and status reflection is much better than you think when it comes to reflecting Radiation and Blast procs). Also, why would Trinity need damage reduction here if she'd be getting it elsewhere? Multiple overlapping sources of damage reduction I don't think are a good thing, which is why I'd like to remove that aspect of Trinity's. Damage reflection also isn't underwhelming given a proper multiplier, as evidenced by Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Blessing: no, lol, just why the nerf, she will never be used this way. And the revive sounds good but again, what if im solo, what if my team mates are actually good. Same thing that with the passive, and both makes it redudndant.

How can you be so sure? I play tons of Trinity, and I can guarantee you that Blessing as a pure heal would still be immensely powerful and desirable, especially if the range limitation were removed once more. If your teammates are good or you're playing solo... don't equip the augment, that's why it's an augment. I don't think there's that much redundancy with the passive either, considering how the passive can be used at all times, whereas the augment would have a cooldown.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

I completely disagree with nerfing both her niches at the same time as you have done, the reason why Trinity is still played is because of how great her 2 and 4 are. You remove her energy source and gave her a pretty op CC, ok thats fine, but you also removed her DR completely you willl be oneshoted every time. And more so if you don't even have energy on demand, that is also a reason why trinity is able to survive.

But this is simply not true, as I shifted her DR to her 1, and the reason Trinity can survive in higher levels is due to the combination of her DR and healing, not her Energy. I don't see how I could have nerfed both of Trinity's niches when the new kit I proposed keeps her heal and damage reduction (and returns to her old infini-range Blessing), while also providing more protective CC, a status cleanse, and potentially a long-range revive. Sure, she wouldn't have a niche as an Energy provider anymore, but that's honestly not a niche worth having imo, certainly not a niche Trinity needs to occupy when she already has a clear identity otherwise.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Also I disagree wiht her being a full support frame, that is archaic on itself and also completely useless for solo players. Look at the new support types, Equinox has options, Oberon has options, Wisp is a god frame, she has everything except hard survibability, on her own. And well lets say she is full defensive support. Then why did you nerf her support capabilities?

... where did I nerf Trinity's support capabilities? Also, I play tons of Trinity solo, and I fail to see why my proposed changes would make her any worse in solo play, as she'd still be extremely survivable, would have better CC, and would also have better damage on her 3, as the "damage reflection" also applies to any damage dealt to enemies, including her own (so your single-target damage becomes multi-target damage). Being viable in solo play does not mean needing some AoE nuke, which exists on every frame you mentioned and doesn't exist on Trinity even now. Equinox, Oberon, and Wisp are all more offensive frames, and that's okay, because that just means Trinity gets to differentiate herself better from them. So long as Trinity were to still have combat tools (and she would, especially with some augments), she'd be fine.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

I believe that maybe burst heal + dr is too powerful, and auto energy is also too powerful. If that was the case, I would make blessing her 3, ony burst heal, full heal, or have it do somehting else. And Link goes to 4, giving her the DR she needs to survive, so about 95% but with huge range. And tbh in that case just make her 1 your 1 and that would be enough. But how is that on par with the new designed frames that have ability synergy?

I don't quite understand the point of reordering abilities as you chose, but the kit I'm proposing has a ton of synergy: Link propagates persistent effects, and both Trinity's 1 and 2 would be persistent effects, allowing her to purify one ally or herself for a multi-target massive DR steroid, or stun one enemy to suspend another few more. She'd also be able to link to enemies when affected with status to spread it to them before cleansing herself, and suspending enemies would open them up to more accurate shots, allowing Trinity to deal even more damage to her other linked enemies.

3 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

In the  case of my 1, if don't like to soiling her theme, then just remove the damage component. Change it on-hit heal. And why do you think her 1 empowering the other abilities is not fitting to her design?

Why give her an on-hit heal when Blessing already gives healing? We'd be back to the same problem of redundancy as before. Also, my complaint is not with the empowerment, but with the max health true damage. I don't actually care much about the empowerment, though I don't think it conflicts with her theme.

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Am 9.7.2019 um 21:03 schrieb Hayzemet:

Rework Idea: Each time you revive someone, you and your target will gain 7% multiplicative damage reduction for the rest of the mission, capping at 21%. If you are playing solo, then you automatically gain 7% damage reduction at the beginning of the mission, and every time you die it increases up to 21%.

I like this idea, but 21% sounds a bit low and I am not sure if "Strength from death" really fits her theme.

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

Passive - Savior: Trinity can revive allies from any range (or from a significantly increased range).

While an increased revive range is nice, it would be better if every frame had a passive that is also available in solo-play.

To underline her support nature give her a buff for allies as well Every frame in affinity range gets X Armor/shield/damage reduction for every frame in Affinity range. For exapmle : x is 50, then in Solo you would get 50 Armor/... and when all 4 frames are together everyone would get 200. It should defenitly be a defensive buff, maybe HoT or Shield over Time could also work.

Am 9.7.2019 um 21:03 schrieb Hayzemet:

New AbilityWeapon Consecration: On cast Trinity will enchant her weapons, and for the duration of the ability, her attacks will be enhanced. Stunning their target, and dealing percentage based true damage to them. Targets affected by this ability will have a cooldown period for the ability to work on them again.

This sounds a bit to much for a first skill, maybe as a 3rd or 4th, but as others stated a damage buff is not the best fit.

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

1 - Purify: Trinity cleanses the target ally of status effects (or herself, if no target is selected). If at least one status effect was cleansed, the target gains significant damage reduction for a duration.

This sounds more fitting. As hitting allies can be somewhat annoying, make it like Novas Nullstar : you summon 5 (number should be dependent on Strength or Duration) Orbs that cycle you and

  • fly towards an ally (in Range) to cleanse 1 (or more) status effects. Those Orbs can also target you.
  • or allies can pick one Orb off you and be immune to the next status they would receive

The Orbs could also provide a small amount of Healing/Shield regain on cleansing. This could also be dependant on the status removed, e.g. life for toxin and shield for magnetic.

Am 9.7.2019 um 21:03 schrieb Hayzemet:

Link: Very nice ability, just needs two things, make it recastable to reset it while you reset blessing, or make it toggleable, and tweak the damage transfer numbers, or even better just forget about them. Keep the status resistance and damage reduction. The damage is negligible, maybe keep the status reflect tho. Now instead of the damage reflection have the damage be stored, capped of course. So when you recast or when the ability ends (X seconds happen if toggleable) it will grant some amount of shields, and overshields to the squad. Also increase the max number of linked targets to 4-6.

If I remember correct no defensive Ability can be recast while active. 

I find this Ability to be not very fitting in Genaral, as a support frame she shouldn't link to enemies but allies instead. Maybe give her stat boni for every alliy she is linked to (not sure what to make in soloplay with this) or let her absorb damage from allies and store it for a massive release of energy, that either heals or CCs (stun, knockback, float) enemies, the more damage the longer the duration. Also (as it is a while since I last played her) how does she profit from damage reduction if she redirects every damage she gets ?

I am not the biggest fan of Energy Vampire, but it fits and can probably stay as it is. Blessing is very nice and fitting so I have no proposal of improvement.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Naneel said:

If I remember correct no defensive Ability can be recast while active. 

Chroma's Vex Armor, Revenant's Mesmer Skin, and Wukong's new Defy can all be recast, and Rhino's Iron Skin with the augment can be dispelled to be recast on-demand as well (Wisp's health mote can also be reapplied at will). Even with no precedent, though, it would be all the more reason to give it a try on Trinity.

Edited by Teridax68

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb Teridax68:

Chroma's Vex Armor, Revenant's Mesmer Skin, and Wukong's new Defy can all be recast, and Rhino's Iron Skin with the augment can be dispelled to be recast on-demand as well (Wisp's health mote can also be reapplied at will). Even with no precedent, though, it would be all the more reason to give it a try on Trinity.

Thanks, I wasn't aware, except Rhino's Iron skin which is not quite a recast and you would still an Augment for this.

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I honestly think she could be great with a combination of many of the suggested changes in this thread. 

Passive: Increased revive speed + long range revive. (Not everyone's passive is useful all the time, and she's a support frame so it makes sense her inherent focus is on team play).

Well of Life: The only frames that could justify % of max health damage would be a purely offensive non-nuke frame like Ash. It shouldn't be a support frame. Make her the Well of Life while still encouraging active play with your team. Make it a duration buff that gives all allies within range (and a set time when leaving the max range) life steal. 

Energy Vampire: I like the idea of this being more active, but what I've always hated was how broken it was (as was mentioned in a comment above). Trinity shouldn't instantly get more energy back than the default she puts into it creating an infinite spam loop. If they keep the ability more or less as is then the one mandatory change they make is how she personally benefits from it. Everyone else gets burst energy as normal, while she only gets a Zenurik-like energy generation. This would encourage duration and limit her ability to spam it for the team. Or maybe it is reworked to her "priming" nearby enemies which only guarantees they drop an energy orb when they die. Simple as that, as long as that isn't more OP...i can't tell at the moment.

Link: I like your rework for this. Make it recastable and grant shields upon recast or ending. 

Blessing: The full heal is just too lazy for this game and made her 1 obsolete to begin with. I'd suggest keeping the damage resistance, but change the heal into an increased max health buff for the team, and synergize with her reworked 1 to increase the life steal it provides while this is active. I also love the idea suggested earlier to add reviving allies with it.

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Trinity was my first built frame given the choice between Rhino and her when I started playing. I've been itching to get back to her, but can't really because of how dated her design is compared to modern frames, it just doesn't feel as great. She's not in dire need of a complete overhaul IMO, just things to spice up her kit making it even more interesting to play as a support healer/buffer.

Triage - this passive is negligible these days since auto-revives are abundant in most missions. A bit more reach and a second faster to revive... at the very least saves some time I guess.

  • New passive: Life Affinity, Trinity automatically revives Companions over time, and ally Warframe bleedout timers are doubled when within her Affinity Range.

Well of Life - long casting animation, making an enemy a bullet sponge + healing it, capped total lifesteal amount, single target... not without its uses when setup, but we already have Blessing to top up the health bar.

  • Can now target ally Warframes and Companions. Casting WoL on them will grant them innate lifesteal on weapon and ability hits, as well as provide a flat moddable bonus to their maximum health pool.
  • Hold-cast will apply Well of Life on the target, as well as propel Trinity to her target at high speed.
  • Can now be cast up to 3 active targets.
  • Casting animation time halved. One-handed cast, can be cast while moving.
  • Enemies within 5 / 8 / 10 / 12 meters of a Well of Life have their health slowly siphoned by the well. The more damage the well receives, the more health is leeched away from nearby enemies per second.
    • If the Well is a downed ally Warframe, health siphoned from nearby enemies will contribute to its revival meter.

Energy Vampire - her superb self-sustaining ability. Not much needs to be changed here, just extra utility.

  • Can now target ally Warframes. Casting EV on them will expand their maximum energy pool by a flat moddable amount, draws energy from Trinity's energy pool and transfer said energy to the affected ally on each pulse. Hold down the button to cancel EV early on said ally. Unused excess energy remaining by the end of ally EV is transferred back to Trinity.
  • Can now be cast on a new target while the ability is still active, removing the previous instance from the previous target.
  • Ability Synergy: Using Well of Life and Energy Vampire on the same target yields extra benefits.
    • WoL + EV on enemy - each pulse from EV baths enemies being leeched by WoL in residual energy. Killing these enemies yields 10 energy each.
    • WoL + EV on ally Warframe - grants status effect cleanse and immunity for the duration.

Link - a good damage mitigation ability. Could do a bit more.

  • Prioritizes linking to WoL and EV enemies in range.
    • Being Linked to a WoL enemy grants Trinity and her Companion the flat moddable bonus to maximum health and lifesteal on their weapons and abilities, for the duration of the link. Only one instance of the bonus and doesn't stack with multiple WoLs being linked to her.
    • Being Linked to an EV enemy grants Trinity the flat moddable bonus to maximum energy pool for the duration of the link.

Blessing - pretty much good as is. Incredible range incredible healing with good damage reduction to boot.

  • On cast, applies Blessing effects to allies being directly buffed by Well of Life or Energy Vampire, even when they are outside of Affinity Range.
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If anything, I think that Trinity needs to have more Debuff to go with her Team Buff. I'm not sure that she needs more damage, per-se, but certainly the ability to help her team with that, and the ability to incentivise her use in a team.

Do you know who is one of the most amazing and underrated sustain frames in the current game? Nezha. Why? Because he drops Orbs. Orbs interact with things. Orbs can be picked up as drops at any time that a player needs them. Energy Orbs can restore energy to players with Drain mechanics running, which means that Nezha's Chakram is better at keeping healing going from an Oberon, or damage going from an Excal/Wukong/Valkyr than Trinity's Energy Vampire.

But other people in this thread are also very, very right; as long as her abilities include the current iteration of Energy Vampire and Blessing, she has two abilities that will vastly over-power the rest of her kit and prevent it from becoming stronger.

Let's get some of that support action for Trinity here.

Spoiler

 

Well of Life -> Life Burst. Cone-of-effect blast that stuns and debuffs enemies to take bonus damage from Physical damage types (IPS). On death, affected enemies drop a health orb. Note; at high Strength, this can cause all IPS types to deal bonus damage to enemies that would normally have resistances to that damage, so a Corpus Shield would no longer have 20% resistance to Puncture and could instead take 75% more damage from Puncture instead, the same with Proto Shields no longer having 50% resistance, but instead have 50% Weakness. More than this, however, from the types they already take bonus damage from, this can cause them to take more than this, so a Shield with 50% weakness to Impact, could instead have a 100% weakness to it, doubling your Impact damage. 

Energy Vampire -> Radial effect, stuns and debuffs all enemies in range to take bonus damage from Elemental damage. On death, affected enemies drop an energy orb. Note; this would function similarly to the IPS debuff from Life Burst, since it costs more energy that would balance the radial nature and the fact that there are more Elemental types than Physical types. Combined with Life Burst, this could cause enemies to take more than 100% bonus damage from any and all damage taken instead of the way current damage buffing is mitigated somewhat by the enemy's innate resistances.

Currently EV only restores a maximum of just over 400 energy with all the Strength modding. On an average build that gives her about 200% Strength, that comes down to about 200 Energy per cast. With this new method, you can guarantee an Orb per enemy and catch a dozen enemies to potentially restore 250-300 in a single cast without having any Strength on her at all. You could technically build for massive range and catch all enemies in range on an Infested map, restoring a potential 1000 energy if players had the capacity to pick it up, or they could leave the orbs for when they need them.

Link -> Put her power back in here, so you get the 75% damage reduction, and the immunity to Status while it's active. Do more with the modding. Range increases how far it goes, Strength increases the number of enemies you target, and it also increases the amount of damage reflected back. Scale that damage up as it's being returned, have enemies capable of dealing up to 500% damage back to themselves or to everything Linked. Let's see a Bombard shoot a rocket that you're basically immune to the effects of, everything linked is knocked down and everything takes 500% of the damage that Rocket would have dealt to you.

Blessing -> Lower the Restore percentages, lower the Damage Resistance percentage, put the Health and Shields restore as over a period of 4 seconds (un-moddable) and then rebalance the functions so they all have a cap to the mod-scaled percentages at 90% for all of them. This means Trin can grant allies 90% damage reduction as well as restoring 90% of their Health and Shields over 4 seconds. Effectively the same ability, nerfed to a degree because it's no longer instant and no longer total, but more effective overall due to the massive spike in the percentage of Damage Reduction to herself and allies. For herself, Trin would now be able to achieve 97.5% damage reduction instead of the previous 93.75%, which adds about another 5x her base Health into Effective Health for her compared to now.

With this, it's kind of like the updates to some of the Prime weapons. You remove a little of the base damage, or base effect, and then give it better supplemental stats so that modding can do even more for you, and sometimes adding an effect that means you deal damage better. Instead of healing and restoring energy quite so immediately, you delay the actual restore but add more to the way she contributes to the team, with enemy debuffs that make it easier for your team to win across the board, energy and health restores that can be accessed as and when, a solid burst heal even if it's not total and immediate anymore, but also high team survivability thanks to the health, energy and damage reduction she can achieve if modded for it.

 

Does that make sense to anyone else? Weaken the strongest casts, but buff everything else so that it makes a better team support?

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I would also love to see more movement and mobile casting improvements across older warframes. They already started by letting us cast in the air. But I would love the day that link doesn’t halt your movement to cast. (Now don’t get me wrong, it makes sense why some grandiose abilities freeze a warframe into place, like rhino’s stomp for example).

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11 hours ago, Shadedraxe said:

I would also love to see more movement and mobile casting improvements across older warframes. They already started by letting us cast in the air. But I would love the day that link doesn’t halt your movement to cast. (Now don’t get me wrong, it makes sense why some grandiose abilities freeze a warframe into place, like rhino’s stomp for example).

Agreed 100%. Letting Trinity cast while in the air was already a game-changer to me, and allowed for many more clutch moments with Link especially, but her animations are still stiff when they have no reason to be: Well of Life and Energy Vampire may as well be one-handed actions, and I don't think Link even truly needs an animation at all, as it's just tethers connecting Trinity to nearby enemies. Giving her that much more fluidity would significantly improve how she feels, I think, and the same could be applied to virtually every other frame in the game too.

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Personally my biggest problem with trinity is that her gameplay is front loaded on babysitting rather than playing the game.

I attempted a rework for her awhile ago that made enemies totems that gave constant low health/energy but allowed you to get burst amounts of both if you shot said target.  The totems themselves would produce an AoE that not only gave health/energy but also gave other benefits.  Like the health one made allies status immune while in the AoE and the energy one shut off enemy auras in the AoE.

I've seen a lot of decent suggestions in this thread already.  But personally for me i'd rather they remove the heal from her ultimate and make well of life better than let Blessing be as stacked as it is.  I'd also like link to work by default on allies to give them DR rather than linking to enemies.  And I think her passive should still be involved with revives.  

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