Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

Dojo / Clan XP Mystery: Solved & Next Steps

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, CRASHSU1T said:
45 minutes ago, Navarchus said:

Can you clarify? Are we both losing EXP for the weapons we crafted -and- losing EXP for our trophies? That's quite a big loss & doesn't sound like a reasonable solution.

Yeah, maybe I'm just especially dense headed, but I couldn't tell at all from this announcement whether we were actually getting our lost research XP back. 

Sounds like DE needs to give more clear and concise guidance on this matter

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hope me and others have read this wrong but as I'm not the only one to see it this way I will express my thoughts.

Removing the xp earned from clans is a kick in the teeth in all honesty, the leaders have worked hard to build their clans and the members put in a lot of work to support, and EARN the trophies (XP included). And for the longer running clans that's a lot of XP to lose so not only do I strongly feel this is an unacceptable solution I feel you are punishing VETS for what reason exactly? because it easier? this is not something that can be swept under the rug and I know I'm not alone when I say that. 

I also struggle to see the incentive to bother doing any further clan operations if this is the case?  Yes the trophies are nice but how may people go 'oh nice trophy, where did you get it from?' 0! 

The operations, and XP earned from getting trophies is what drives a lot of clans together to work hard and get it, please don't ruin that, and make years of hard work meaningless. 

if this is not the case then I feel we need a bit more guidance to what the actual solution is, and if it is the case I urge you to reconsider. 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-09 at 4:14 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

All trophies are now exempt from Clan XP and will not reward it.

O.o If sneaking up power levels is a power creep what is a slow drain on xp? XP leak? This still seems like it need further attention and explanation.

Also why is the star chart XP still going down? the last 3 main lines have lowered the star chart xp like 500-600 points yet we have gotten 4 new nodes (Fortuna, Orb Vallis, disruption one, and flydolon)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I"m not even an active clan participant, but I see this, and as a veteran myself I see it as a slap in the face to all veterans who have put in the time and effort.

Maybe LifeOfRio was right... I try to avoid his video's but sometimes, you see something, and it all just starts to make sense. Warframe has no stock in its veterans.

  • Like 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a clan Warlord that is always looking for better way to incentivize clan participation and with so few clan oriented events, I am also hoping I read this in some way that did not seem like what we worked for in endless event missions and with huge contributions to our clans might be taken away and not be returned?

Thus I am confused. Honestly there are several things I am confused about when it comes to clans and operations of them as to why we might not have a few things that would add value to clans and long term membership of one.

Any additional clarifications would be most helpful. I will need some kind of answers for my admins and clan members that spent hours, days and weeks filling statues and event items.

Side Notes:

  • Totally agree with removal of the solar rails items but I assume those will be changed to Railjack items
  • Would love to see NPC's in the dojos
  • Would love to see a list of items we need to work on for Railjack and New War - Especially if it means redesigning my at max cap dojo to fit in new rooms etc.

Thanks for listening.

 

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oof, damn DE, you done made some folks unhappy. For starters, we definitely need more clarification on:

- All trophies are now exempt from Clan XP and will not reward it.

and

- there was a whole bunch of invisible XP messing with values especially if you deleted a decoration or room, and finished weapon research (namely, from Operation Trophies)!

If I am understanding this correctly, people could delete dojo rooms/decorations, then rebuilt them, and get the clan EXP for it again? If this is the case, I understand why a fix needed to happen. But I feel how the fix was implemented has raised some red flags with a lot of the big clans. I hope this fix of the trophies not awarding clan EXP is only a temporary band aid until a proper long term fix, such as only allowing EXP to be earned per statue being built once, when built the first time. This is the rule for dojo rooms, correct? EXP awarded the first, and only the first, time one is built. I can understand if the coding for rooms and decorations is a bit different, but I am sure, given time, the devs could figure it out.

Another point I would like to touch on is: What is the overall goal of the dojo mastery system? In my eyes, it only serves two purposes: bragging rights (by way of achievements and pushing boundaries) and as a recruiting element. And it looks like people really don't like it when you nerf their bragging rights, their achievements. The high end gold trophies take a ton of time, effort, and resources to acquire, especially for the larger clans. It takes a large amount of time and effort on the part of the leaders of said clans to recruit their members and manage them, so every little bone you throw at them, every achievement they could acquire in face of the hurdles they leap to get to where they are at, is a reflection of that time and dedication. The dojo mastery system so far is very transparent when it comes to being a rewarding experience in the long run. There is very little to gain by gaining the dojo EXP. And so it hurts much more right now when that little bit that we have is taken away. Especially considering the sheer amount of time and effort it took to obtain what was taken. The effort involved obtaining the EXP for event statues is NOT the same as that earned by researching clan tech, or building a room (granted, yes those are more costly for larger clans, but that is not the point I am trying to make here). There is far and above so much more group effort and time involved. You are literally taking a first place trophy, earned through hard work and dedication, and saying it is meaningless, which in turn makes those that worked hard for it go "Then what is the point of even doing these? Of pushing our limits, pushing the boundaries?"

So, in the end, DE, could you

y4mXEWBJwqp5N9mJZqjZHHHTAxp_c_C09d7D3mBh

- clarify what is your goal with the clan mastery system overall.

- clarify if this recent "fix" to the clan trophy EXP reward is only a temporary fix, or a permanent one.

- reassure us that this topic is at the very least on your radar of stuff that definitely needs more discussion and fleshing out.

- let us, the players, know that we are heard and not being ignored.

Thank you for your time.

-Kaiser

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/09/19 at 4:14 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

If you're not an active participant in the Clan / Dojo system, a lot of this will go over your head. But if you've noticed a discrepancy in your Clan's Dojo XP since the release of Update 25, we have found the issue and have a full breakdown here.

The issue:
Upon researching the Update 25 Clan weapons, some Clans / Dojos had a loss of Clan XP. On the surface this seems like a pretty straight forward problem, but it has turned out to be a bit more complicated. Your "Clan Profile' page showed research and Pigment XP gains, but there was a whole bunch of invisible XP messing with values especially if you deleted a decoration or room, and finished weapon research (namely, from Operation Trophies)!

The solution:
- All trophies are now exempt from Clan XP and will not reward it.
- The Trading Post and Treasury will supply their intended XP.
- Room XP will be left alone (get your XP on first build), just exposed so you can see it.

Next steps:
As we release eligible content, you can re-rank your Clan over time. We have record keeping of your rank, so you won't re-trigger the rank up rewards.

Sorry for the confusion!

Further information:

We have a list of rooms and objects that grant you XP, but only if they exist within the Dojo (i.e cannot be built then destroyed). Next hotfix will ensure this works properly + highlight this fact more (as we work to expose in UI):

Trading Post 10000 XP
Treasury 10000 XP
Obstacle Course: 15000 XP
Dueling Room: 15000 XP
Oracle: 10000 XP
Energy Lab: 10000 XP
Chem Lab: 10000 XP
Bio Lab: 10000 XP
Orokin Lab: 10000 XP
Tenno Lab: 10000 XP
Temple of Honor: 15000 XP

:clem:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Removing clan affinity from trophies is for the best. Clan progression shouldn't be locked behind non-recurring events, it just discourages the creation of new clans in favor of clans with an unfair advantage due to being older and therefore "better." I already disagree heavily with ignis wraith being an exclusive, even despite having said research, and hope that it will be reintroduced at some point.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Removing clan affinity from trophies is for the best. Clan progression shouldn't be locked behind non-recurring events, it just discourages the creation of new clans in favor of clans with an unfair advantage due to being older and therefore "better." I already disagree heavily with ignis wraith being an exclusive, even despite having said research, and hope that it will be reintroduced at some point.

While I do not disagree, I also think that there should be a way to have other clans catch up to level the field vs. taking away something many of us put in a ton of time to achieve for our clans. As in those that did no work like many clans do, can catch up if they wish to actually work. 

And just so you know - Ignis Wraith is already resolved:

A fully built Ignis Wraith is now potentially sold by Baro Ki'Teer in the Concourse section of the Tenno Relay for Credits64250,000 and PrimeBucks550. Note that Baro Ki'Teer's stock changes with each appearance, and this weapon may not be available on a succeeding appearance.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

One potential solution to this issue would be to have all events return on a yearly basis. Clans and individuals can experience these events and obtain their rewards. Also, they can be a little more casual than how monumental current events are like "Hostile Mergers" is due to their consistency, but also provide clans with meaningful leaderboards.

While Rebecca did not clarify this in her post, I tend to agree with MasterControl here. It seems like trophy exp was removed to have all clans be on a more even playing field instead of the change simply being due to a bug.

Edited by --Aegis--Dandy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

One of the potential issues with this solution though are clan and individual "operation scores". I would say the best answer to that would be to have the best score presented. (For example, if a clan does an event for the second time, the best out of the two scores would be shown in stats - same thing for individuals).

Edited by --Aegis--Dandy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, (XB1)BURZYCKI said:

While I do not disagree, I also think that there should be a way to have other clans catch up to level the field vs. taking away something many of us put in a ton of time to achieve for our clans. As in those that did no work like many clans do, can catch up if they wish to actually work. 

And just so you know - Ignis Wraith is already resolved:

A fully built Ignis Wraith is now potentially sold by Baro Ki'Teer in the Concourse section of the Tenno Relay for Credits64250,000 and PrimeBucks550. Note that Baro Ki'Teer's stock changes with each appearance, and this weapon may not be available on a succeeding appearance.

 

 

I'm fully aware that Ignis Wraith comes from Baro, however.. it's Baro. He doesn't have it very often, research is always available. As a clan owner I still occasionally see it as a "requirement" for people who are considering joining, which is explicitly the type of thing I'd like to avoid. A community should be judged on it's merit as a community, not what loot it can offer to a player interested in joining. Clan affinity doesn't mean much at the moment, but the fact that they're looking at it more closely makes me concerned that it may become more important with Empyrian.

The problem with there being a "catch up" mechanic for clans is that it'd need to be an exclusive source of clan affinity that other clans who did well in events don't have access to, which.. doesn't make sense, and would be horribly impractical aside from rerunning the events, which would still see people complaining about how their work on the first run of the event was invalidated by the re-run. I still think it's for the best that exclusive sources of clan affinity be done away with. Hopefully this also eventually extends to dark sector research.

Mind you, this is coming from somebody who's clan has multiple gold trophies and only the one silver (from the most recent event), and most of the work in the events prior to this one was done by me/a select few. I don't mind my "hard work" being invalidated because that just means I'm back on an even playing field with other, more casual or more hardcore communities.

Edited by MasterControl
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-14 at 12:09 AM, MasterControl said:

I'm fully aware that Ignis Wraith comes from Baro, however.. it's Baro. He doesn't have it very often, research is always available. As a clan owner I still occasionally see it as a "requirement" for people who are considering joining, which is explicitly the type of thing I'd like to avoid. A community should be judged on it's merit as a community, not what loot it can offer to a player interested in joining. Clan affinity doesn't mean much at the moment, but the fact that they're looking at it more closely makes me concerned that it may become more important with Empyrian.

The problem with there being a "catch up" mechanic for clans is that it'd need to be an exclusive source of clan affinity that other clans who did well in events don't have access to, which.. doesn't make sense, and would be horribly impractical aside from rerunning the events, which would still see people complaining about how their work on the first run of the event was invalidated by the re-run. I still think it's for the best that exclusive sources of clan affinity be done away with. Hopefully this also eventually extends to dark sector research.

Mind you, this is coming from somebody who's clan has multiple gold trophies and only the one silver (from the most recent event), and most of the work in the events prior to this one was done by me/a select few. I don't mind my "hard work" being invalidated because that just means I'm back on an even playing field with other, more casual or more hardcore communities.

So you do not feel like your clan should benefit from putting in the hard work for the Ignis and or whatever else you elect to do when your recruiting? I benefited from winning the Moon Dojo Decoration contest that I am pretty sure cost our clan at least 3 first born's each. I would say we all worked on that to expect to benefit from that hard work. In our case it came with slightly less painful recruiting.

I am not sure I see an issue with some clans that put in the work reaping rewards from that huge investment. I think in general we live in a world of participation trophies and everyone coming in first place. Painful loss and not having things other do tends to be a motivator. Then people learn that hard work gets rewarded.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, (XB1)BURZYCKI said:

So you do not feel like your clan should benefit from putting in the hard work for the Ignis and or whatever else you elect to do when your recruiting? I benefited from winning the Moon Dojo Decoration contest that I am pretty sure cost our clan at least 3 first born's each. I would say we all worked on that to expect to benefit from that hard work. In our case it came with slightly less painful recruiting.

I am not sure I see an issue with some clans that put in the work reaping rewards from that huge investment. I think in general we live in a world of participation trophies and everyone coming in first place. Painful loss and not having things other do tends to be a motivator. Then people learn that hard work gets rewarded.

  

There is a difference between Ignis Wraith and Dojo contests. Any clan is able to compete in a dojo contest regardless of when that clan was created. For the Ignis Wraith, clans created after Spring of 2017 have no ways of obtaining it.

I think a solution here is recurring events (Dojo contests, operations, etc) that are planned ahead of time and follow a clear schedule structure. 

Edited by --Aegis--Dandy
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-12 at 5:20 PM, (XB1)Furious Kaiser said:

there was a whole bunch of invisible XP messing with values especially if you deleted a decoration or room, and finished weapon research (namely, from Operation Trophies)!

Q: What is ‘VISIBLE’ XP, or what are some examples of XP which is regarded to be in a state that is ‘VISIBLE?’ (The question is framed in a way which requests examples of things which contrast what has been set forth, as it would seem more like a sarcastic effort at absurdist humor if someone were to ask to be shown some examples of “invisible XP” or what it looks like.

OK, now there is some (hopefully gentle) degree of sarcasm in this question:

It is (or was) possible for clans to actually build rooms and place decorations inside of trophies redeemed for XP earned during Operation events?

Actually, if that really is somehow possible to do, and I just never knew about it, then it would actually be a demonstrable example of “invisible XP,” since the room and/or decorations would not be visible as existing if viewed from anywhere outside of the trophy into which they were built.

Of course, if that is/were the case, then any clan which had built and decorated a Chem Lab or Orokin Lab inside of a trophy, and then done the Ignis Wraith or Solar Rail-Related research (respectively) in the Invisible Lab, only to lose of all XP gained from completing that construction and/or research, would understandably create a legitimate cause for grievance (grieving, to grieve, or be in a state of GRIEF) OVER the LOSS. 

It would be a loss of XP which had been built up from the dedicated hard work and effort put into what had been SUCCESSFULLY BUILT, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED, made ESPECIALLY acute when the catalyst for losing it was merely putting in the effort and resources necessary to do the research on a couple of new, and rather unsightly, unwieldy, inaccurate, and categorically “messy” weapons in the Energy Lab.

(Categorically “Messy,” because unlike the Corpus, the Tenno have no reliable research on Sentients or their “technology,” much less a Lab for it). 

(Maybe the new Third Coming of Alad V as the Ruler of all Jupiter, is not altogether wrong in his derision of the Tenno as Old News & Obsolete in the face of the new Corpus Amalgam and Tau/Sentient Fused “technology.”)

It is Corpus (credited) “Innovation,” after all, whether done by Nef & Co. (from digging up “Old War” Sentient junk on Venus), or by Alad (amalgamation of “all” + “and”) V, mashing up the more (Mindlessly) “Shape-Of-Things-To-Come” type “New War” Sentient “tech” (i.e. Making the Grineer seem like rocket scientists by comparison of IQ profiles), under Natah-Mother in the “reworked” Gas City Empire (that has shoved the still-new/“Next Gen” Zanuka Project into a somehow concurrently running footnote.*)

So, that does kind of seem to frame the Tenno as coming off looking pretty inept at doing much more than stealing Corpus Researched Technology, and applying reverse engineering “research” to figure out how to make it ourselves.

Perhaps that ought to be used as an ad hoc justification for losing XP to completing amalgam research in the “Energy Lab,” rather than to losing “invisible XP” unknowingly gained by building rooms and decorations inside of trophies from Operations. 

THAT would actually be a REASONABLE and REASONED “SOLUTION.”

Build it right into the scheme of things. Every clan/dojo will lose XP in accord with a certain algorithm, when the first research is finished on Amalgam tech done in the Energy Lab.

After THAT happens, some or all of it can be regained by building a Sentient Lab and completing a research project in it that makes it possible to transfer the Amalgam research over. 

Of course the Sentient Lab would initially be little more than a “Place Holder,” and won’t be available for construction at all until all other Labs have been built, with all research dependencies having been completed, leading up to the ‘precipice-of-ignorance’ negative XP research penalty, which unlocks the Sentient Lab construction option (+ 10,000 XP or something for the first build only), with anther + 3000 XP for the kick-off research, and another +1000 or 1,500 XP for each of the two Amalgam weapons researched in the Energy Lab being transferred over (or something).

it’d be “clean,” and written right in to the scheme of things when it comes to Dojo construction. AND it would establish a “Place Holder” for a Lab which will need to be added sooner or later, as Sentients become more of a prevalent presence throughout Warframe, not just as “Old War” leftovers and hybrid “tech” made from stuff the Corpus dug up, but as what has been, and is being, added into the continuing canon of what’s happening now, that’s already here, and for all intents & purposes always has been here, saying “and there’s more where that came from.”

Or just go with a whole bunch of invisible XP messing with values especially if you deleted a decoration or room, and finished weapon research (namely, from Operation Trophies) causing 17,000 - 30,000 clan XP to be deducted when Amalgam research is done in a Dojo Energy Lab ... 

(whatever. what do I know ...)

* Oh, the footnote: Yeah, it does seem kind of OVERBOARD with the zeal to make all of the Gas City nodes not only Alad V domain, but also Alad V Amalgam territory, since for anyone either first getting to the Zanuka node, or even returning to it under Nightmare, Kuva, or Sortie circumstances, his running “new project” is directly at odds with itself in the most immediate. 

Edited by (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-17 at 3:13 PM, (XB1)BURZYCKI said:

So you do not feel like your clan should benefit from putting in the hard work for the Ignis and or whatever else you elect to do when your recruiting? I benefited from winning the Moon Dojo Decoration contest that I am pretty sure cost our clan at least 3 first born's each. I would say we all worked on that to expect to benefit from that hard work. In our case it came with slightly less painful recruiting.

I am not sure I see an issue with some clans that put in the work reaping rewards from that huge investment. I think in general we live in a world of participation trophies and everyone coming in first place. Painful loss and not having things other do tends to be a motivator. Then people learn that hard work gets rewarded.

 

I don't, no. Especially for time-limited content. I think that sort of "weight" should be limited to the individual, because again, it is unfair to new clans who want to start up now and those who were not playing when DE thought they should have been. It can lead to a downward spiral that can kill a community because they don't have x new item and clan y does, so people jump ship and it gets harder to bring people in, then because of that there's not enough people around for the next event to "win" in the next event, ect ect.. It can also feel unfair to those who go above and beyond in terms of participation and don't get anything out of it because their clan didn't participate as much. And before you say "well then they should just go find a new clan," what about clans of IRL friends? Or clans of otherwise close friends, who can't play as often? I understand the "participation award" line of thinking, but we shouldn't be discouraging certain types of communities, particularly more casual ones, from existing in Warframe outright.

Edited by MasterControl
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 Still unclear to me, why a clan that has been in exixtance 5 years, should not be allowed to have things that a 1 year clan doesn't have . It is very similiar to the founders pack, those that found the gme and supported it many years ago, have things we can't get. I'm fine with not being able to have excalibur prime, they deserve to have something exclusive. Taking away the xp for trophies, makes trophies mostly pointless. What isn't fair, is in a 'competative' online game, we are constantly pounded with it's not fair, everyone should be the same. Supporting Warframe for over 5 years, why is it so terrible to have something to show for it? 

Edited by (PS4)Dorian-Hawkmoon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MasterControl said:

I don't, no. Especially for time-limited content. I think that sort of "weight" should be limited to the individual, because again, it is unfair to new clans who want to start up now and those who were not playing when DE thought they should have been. It can lead to a downward spiral that can kill a community because they don't have x new item and clan y does, so people jump ship and it gets harder to bring people in, then because of that there's not enough people around for the next event to "win" in the next event, ect ect.. It can also feel unfair to those who go above and beyond in terms of participation and don't get anything out of it because their clan didn't participate as much. And before you say "well then they should just go find a new clan," what about clans of IRL friends? Or clans of otherwise close friends, who can't play as often? I understand the "participation award" line of thinking, but we shouldn't be discouraging certain types of communities, particularly more casual ones, from existing in Warframe outright.

Clan jumping, dedication to a specific clan, etc is a discussion for another topic as that in itself is a constant battle. How much work and effort it takes to successfully run and keep 1000 people somewhat happy is another long discussion. I think in the end the clan data should show what clans truly care and what ones have a trading post in an empty dojo. I am not sure a clan that has put in basically nothing should be able to reap all rewards. That is specifically why research is tiered - to make you invest. Do not get me wrong as a warlord now of almost 3 or 4 years (its all a blur) I feel bad for the new clan warlord posting in recruiting "anyone want to join my clan?" because I know the road in front of them, but this all falls back on most people do not play videos games for 3 + years of investment. Most play for much shorter times and refuse to invest or learn the in's and outs' - I would think for those that do and establish core great sub communities in the larger Warframe community those groups might just have some things others cannot obtain. That is how real life works also. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, (XB1)BURZYCKI said:

Clan jumping, dedication to a specific clan, etc is a discussion for another topic as that in itself is a constant battle. How much work and effort it takes to successfully run and keep 1000 people somewhat happy is another long discussion. I think in the end the clan data should show what clans truly care and what ones have a trading post in an empty dojo. I am not sure a clan that has put in basically nothing should be able to reap all rewards. That is specifically why research is tiered - to make you invest. Do not get me wrong as a warlord now of almost 3 or 4 years (its all a blur) I feel bad for the new clan warlord posting in recruiting "anyone want to join my clan?" because I know the road in front of them, but this all falls back on most people do not play videos games for 3 + years of investment. Most play for much shorter times and refuse to invest or learn the in's and outs' - I would think for those that do and establish core great sub communities in the larger Warframe community those groups might just have some things others cannot obtain. That is how real life works also. 

I think that research fulfills the goals you're shooting for. It's something you have to invest in, or suffer for if they choose to ignore it. It's also not, annoyingly, time-limited like events are. It's there for you when you're ready for it, but not without putting the effort in, which imo is how it should be. Don't get me wrong - I don't think anybody should be getting everything without putting effort in, I think that the chance to put effort in should be equally available. Perhaps we need more long-term research goals for clans, to help separate more invested communities? Maybe that's what Railjack will be. Exclusive stuff like event trophies should remain cosmetic, imo the bragging rights of owning them are more than enough.

As far as it being "how real life works," the entire point of playing video games to get away from real life 😛

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MasterControl said:

I think that research fulfills the goals you're shooting for. It's something you have to invest in, or suffer for if they choose to ignore it. It's also not, annoyingly, time-limited like events are. It's there for you when you're ready for it, but not without putting the effort in, which imo is how it should be. Don't get me wrong - I don't think anybody should be getting everything without putting effort in, I think that the chance to put effort in should be equally available. Perhaps we need more long-term research goals for clans, to help separate more invested communities? Maybe that's what Railjack will be. Exclusive stuff like event trophies should remain cosmetic, imo the bragging rights of owning them are more than enough.

As far as it being "how real life works," the entire point of playing video games to get away from real life 😛

Maybe when a clan completes a certain level of research you can unlock the ability to have access to past items thus leveling out clans at a certain level of actual participation. I have daily people ask for an invite to our clan because their clan is dead or people stopped investing etc, so its a very common issue to have a clan for a few weeks and then give up. But I have also have solo clan warlords give up everything they have done (fully researched) and join our clan because they do not want to invest in the truly hard part and that is managing people, expectations and todays issues of wanting it all with little to no work. I think value is a hard thing to teach to people, be that in trade chat or any gaming community. 

I still cannot get Excalibur prime, do I truly care, no. Would I miss Ignis Wraith if our dojo did not have it, sure, but I could also get it from baro or buy it in a trade. Having XP go missing is really something I had not actually noticed till another Warlord told me about it because it so rarely goes up these days for a Rank 10 clan I sort of stopped looking. This would then bother me if there was a way to become a Rank 11 clan but as far as i know that is not true yet.

All of these items are what makes clans something people want to be part of, each of us has things that drive us, to maintain a solid clan you need to make sure enough drivers exist to cover most of your membership. We try to have many and in the end we still only cover 80% of our membership as the rest just scatter to other games as they get bored etc.

We need to add more items that will drive our members to want to be more involved in the clan. One simple item would be to add a way for a notification to be sent if I rank you up, this would then pop up in the inbox to remind you that the clan sees you and cares. Little things like that are the things that drive many to participate more. So its its adding XP or acknowledgement etc we need more than we have now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like tha ranking system and Im glad for the fix thanks! Love seeing clans get love.

That being said, can we reveiw clan tier roster max? I propose instead of 10/30/100/300/1000 we do 10/50/100/500/1000. As a Founding Warlord of an all members active max roster shadow clan, here is why》 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not going to read every comment...but I hope someone said something about the Specter Research and it being gated off by the armistice...Can we please be allowed to at least research them so we can check that off...thank you...

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I am not going to read every comment...but I hope someone said something about the Specter Research and it being gated off by the armistice...Can we please be allowed to at least research them so we can check that off...thank you...

I would assume this will change to something railjack related soon

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-10 at 11:57 PM, (XB1)Nittymaster said:

Sounds like DE needs to give more clear and concise guidance on this matter

Having read the recent Update Notes, I was surprised to find this topic mentioned. 

I was rather disconcerted over that mention being a reiteration of the OP to this thread.

 

This occurred within a day or so of checking in at my Dojo to make some resource contributions to Research.

I was taken completely by surprise to see that XP/Affinity had AGAIN changed: 0 XP remaining before Rank 10.

It was now, suddenly, time for the Ascension (Ceremony).

This was, of course, a bit confusing to me, having accepted the reasons provided for the discrepancies, the terms and limits of what has been stated was & would be done about them, and what would be put into place which effects XP (and thus Rank) from here onward.

The sudden jump from being still at least 1000 XP or so away from the next Rank to 0 was peculiar enough.

I just accepted that it is the state of how things are (though not really pleased with the terms which presented what I had accepted). I accepted that there had been XP losses/deductions incurred (after completing the initial research on a new family of projects in the energy lab), that were the result of more accurate recalculations of Clan XP being made, the actual tally of which came out to be less than what had been previously shown due to “a whole bunch of invisible XP messing with values.”

So, to me, that meant that I just had not been keeping my own separate tally, and doing the math for myself, concerning how much XP had been gained, from doing or building what, and when.

I figured that since the original locations of some room construction projects that grant XP for the first-time-build-only had been changed, (Destroyed to be Rebuilt in a different location), the First-Time-Build-XP had been deducted (since the originally built room TECHNICALLY no longer “existed” in the Dojo). 

It seemed me to be a bit of a harsh penalization, since any/all room destruction had been done only for the sake of rebuilding, and often was not done until after a second, replacement build had been completed in a new, more desirable location.

 It did not seem unreasonable (way back when) to assume that some some first-time-build projects would be later rebuilt somewhere else during the course of construction, learning how things work, and trying new things for the first time.

The capacity to really think through, and fully plan out, the entirety of an architectural schema was (for me at least) far from being a first and immediate priority to beginning a solo Clan & Dojo from scratch. 

The major priorities for initial construction followed necessity. 

1. Basic architectural and utility structures (halls, power, junctions) that provide a starting point, and outlet to what is most essential for any/all further construction

2. installation of necessary functional components (treasury, trading post), 

3. and provide for the construction of the most valuable assets to any Dojo - it’s Research Labs.*

Well, okay, I guess maybe I lost track (again) and there was some pigment research or something that was running its course, that I hadn’t noticed. (There wasn’t, and actually pigments pick-ups formed the bulk of accumulated resource contributions I heeding in to drop off).

I did the ascension. Great. Rank 10 now. (party popper!) It doesn’t really change what has been, and what has still has yet to be done. I get a chunk of endo, take a few screen shots for the sake of capturing those “Kodak Moments,” and keep at it.

But on my next return to the Dojo, after the ascension was done, I wound up seeing that it’s already more than 20,000 XP into Rank 10.

Now I am only all the more confused, about just what anything (or everything) that was part of the Solution had to do with the problem (underlying “the Issue”).

In short, it would seem that neither the problem which gave rise to the issue, nor the solution, have really been described or explained.

My concern is not over how much Clan XP I have, or what the Rank is. It’s over the clarity of communicating what things are and how they work. Informing information. It is that information which in-forms the basis for the rules which we presume to be operating by and within.

———————————-

The extraneous & tangential footnote, which only elliptically forms a tenuous relation to the Issue & Solution or larger subject, at best.

 

* e.g. when first setting out to build a clan/dojo entirely on my own, the most immediate priorities were governed by what was most necessary for fulfilling the functional requirements of a Dojo. 

 

To my sensibilities, most valuable asset of any clan/Dojo is the completion and ready of research projects. 

 

Others have different senses of priority, as I have often seen in “communities,” with players announcing creating new, larger-than-ghost clans, “accepting requests” from, inviting, open to, looking for new/more members to come join, highlighting the amenities which have been constructed and await.

 

Craig Hek’s List

Void Classifieds

New Clan Dojo Listings

 

NEW (big) CLAN! Actively recruiting now!

 

Great location, gym, sauna, pool, beautiful skybox views, lavish decor, great halls, gardens, community activity coordinators, snack bar, wet bar, buffet, room service, concierge, secure parking, convenient access to local shops and restaurants, daily, weekly sightseeing tours and events, lab construction nearly completed. PM _____ to join.” 

 

... wait, what was that last thing?  Lab construction ...

 

The “worth” or BENEFIT of a Clan or Dojo (to me) is measured by what it has to provide, not in how much it is asking others to contribute. 

 

A central pillar (or “fundamental precept”) of my philosophy concerning value, worth, assets, structures and systems, that extends directly into Dojo, Clan & Alliance building, derives directly from what is “one louder” after all the volume knobs on an amp have been cranked to 10 with Zero “headroom” remaining.

 

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 11

 

“Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;

It is the center hole that makes it useful.

Shape clay into a vessel;

It is the space within that makes it useful.

Cut doors and windows for a room;

It is the holes which make it useful.

Therefore benefit comes from what is there;

Usefulness from what is not there.”

 

(An alternate translation goes -

“Therefore profit comes from what is there;

Usefulness from what is not there.”)

 

Hence the construction of an “alliance,”

which has no allied clans, and is maintained as an available, 

open HUB, to provide clans with a means to connect and collaborate, 

without becoming committed to the useless inflexibilities of a conglomerate,

being named the “Thirty Spokes.”

 

It’s value derives from it being there, with open ports.

 

If “eligible content” is made available for better structuring and building of “alliance” facilities, the first priority would go into building what is of most benefit to the utility of the alliance structure, so that it can ENABLE new and novel uses.  

 

An especially salient benefit, since the initial value of alliance conglomeration was to create force by numbers for fighting over Solar Rail construction in Dark Sectors.

 

A PvP convention which has been suspended, that operated by imposing taxation upon and restricting access to locations, while depleting players and clans of the resources, which members had to constantly collect and contribute towards being consumed by a perpetual war effort AGAINST one another (when we are supposed to be “all on the same side,” for the benefit of The Origin System).

 

For those wanting a lift of the armistice, (for the gain of a meager amount of total Clan XP/Affinity), or wanting the research to be made accessible again (without a lift of the armistice, for the same purposes), it may do you well to bear in mind that there is no benefit to be gained from completing that research, and no use for the projects that research enables, but there is a cost in requisite resource contributions.

 

By the same token, leaving those systems in place has a value over completely removing them altogether, as they provide integral “environmental” structures, even when not being used, that are built not only into the “outside” of a Dojo, but also directly into the core of how design and construction works.

 

There is a lot which the sheer existence of that lab section provides for being able to do, which far exceeds anything and everything which it is and has been used for. 

 

The Dev/Coder work that would have to be done (for the sake of some players/clans getting an overall minuscule amount of XP from useless research projects that provide no benefit to a clan or its members), when massive efforts are underway to expand the entire System, and build GINORMOUS new structures and utilities into Dojos, which will become the primary conduits for accessing much of the newly expanded and integrated System, are at least as dependent upon the state and status of those structures being secure and stable as they are and have been, as “freeing them up for research” would be upon monkeying around with those structures. 

 

All around, what is really probably most hoped for, is the integration of conventions into the game which provide supplemental historical continuity. That is to say, it’s really less a matter of import and really of interest, to be permitted to access the Solar Rail Research, as it is wanting to have adequate access to knowing what things were like during that era of the game’s actual HISTORY (not “lore”).

 

Often Operations and Tactical Alerts have been employed to introduce new things into the factual fiction of the game, or replace older ones. For instance a talking Ambulas as a “Boss” being replaced by the Operation Ambulas Reborn, which installed a narrative imperative that fills in an interesting backstory to the Boss Fight on that node. But only slivers of that story remain. Fragmented. Even I did not realize that the Operation (which I did participate in, and saw through to a truly spectacular finale) had replaced the Ambulas “Boss Fight” (which I had already completed previously), until I saw something that made no sense to me in Recruiting Chat. Someone looking for help to collect Animo Nav Beacons. What? You can’t. The Operation is over (or so I thought). Then learned about that prerequisite having carried over and been left in place. So, I went along. But there is none of the (ultimately easy to sum up) pretext for collecting the Nav Beacons, which makes sense of what is encountered in the Carry-Over from the Operation, anywhere left to be found. This stuff, again, is not “lore.” These are the stories, which remain only in parts, disconnected from any present continuities, which went into the formation of what things are. When things are arranged in such a way as to form hierarchies of prerequisites, and relate to the stories which comprise the reasoning behind many of the rules encountered along the way, the addition of some device which can fill in for so much missing backstory would need to use very little, to carry things a very long way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope all of those statues don't give us xp in the future, and I hope clan events get available for all dojos, its not fair for many dojos not being able to play them, no wonder its a bit dead with events, because we don't have clan events. I hope LOR gets back, that was nice to play, even if I did it once, it was still nice.

And a nice change would be to have some operator events, like mini missions that we can only do with the operator.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...