The ridiculous changes in melee are terrible.

[FalikosekPL]

First of all, why is there an option that lets you hit enemies with melee using LMB... but not an option that lets you (visually) block and glide with RMB?

Swapping weapons with RMB is the most frustrating thing in the recent melee changes. Why is it so frustrating? There is a lot of reasons.

1. "Block" combos. The amount of times I accidentally swapped to a friggin sniper while doing melee combos is uncountable. This seems even worse for people who use LMB for melee hits, because swapping to a gun just stops the whole combo, making you press E again to swap to melee
2. Aim gliding. Sometimes I just want to travel through the grineer galleons midair, while blocking all enemy attacks. This is literally impossible now.
3. Valkyr's Hysteria. Swapping to a gun cancels invulnerability. Do I have to say more?
4. Channeling. Swapping to a gun also cancels channeling! And I use it a lot, especially on Inaros. WHY?
5. Exodia Contagion. It requires you to hold RMB midair... And that's incredibly annoying on weapons with very high zoom. Seriously, just let people glide with melee.
6. Wall latching. You can't block anything now while being on a wall, because you have to hold RMB to glide and latch and then press E to switch to melee... Which automatically makes you do a wall attack, jumping off the wall. Great.

Auto-block sure is a great change, but sometimes I just wanna look cool, holding my Aegis in front me.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Thank you.

11 minutes ago, FalikosekPL said:

5. Exodia Contagion. It requires you to hold RMB midair... And that's incredibly annoying on weapons with very high zoom. Seriously, just let people glide with melee.

Especially this part.
Thank you.

[taiiat]

heh. i hate Autoblocking because it's literally Reflex Guard made innate. and Reflex Guard always had grumbles because Blocking interrupts anything you were doing at the time, since it isn't one-handed or something like that.
i do enjoy being stunlocked by Enemies or something of that sort, basically by random. it's so fun.

[VoidEquinox]

Citation

5. Exodia Contagion. It requires you to hold RMB midair... And that's incredibly annoying on weapons with very high zoom. Seriously, just let people glide with melee.

Totally agree

[shut]

As someone pointed out to me in another thread, we can easily have manual blocking with the quick-switch system if "switch back to gun" is moved from "aim (RMB)" to "reload (R)" (i.e. pressing R in melee will switch to the gun without actually starting a reload).

This lets RMB be used for both aiming and blocking depending on the mode, without introducing any new buttons or hindering the quick-switch system. It also keeps "switch back to gun" on an intuitive, gun-related button that everyone's already used to pressing.

Edited July 9, 2019 by SortaRandom

[Jax_Cavalera]

As a player that never really used melee since melee 2.0 came out I find these changes great, it's actually made using quick-melee something I have started building into my play-style. I can now combo without having to ever pull out my melee weapon as a primary, I can use it to reduce enemy armor on heavies before finishing them off with my guns.

Since they took away stamina, I've lost 100% interest in channeling and am unlikely to ever use it so any negative impacts to melee channeling go over my head completely.. I frequently use Energy Tank builds and simply have no interest in sharing that pool of EHP with a stick i would swing around.

... again to state.. I am someone that never used or enjoyed melee after the first round of changes came in (aside from coptering.. pre bullet jump).. so take that for what it's worth. I don't know if players in my category were their target demographic for the new changes or if this was meant to be a full player-base type deal ~

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

28 minutes ago, FalikosekPL said:

3. Valkyr's Hysteria. Swapping to a gun cancels invulnerability. Do I have to say more?

still drains your energy till you turn off the ability even tho your not having hysterias effects active, same with every other exalted weapon minus ivara

30 minutes ago, FalikosekPL said:

5. Exodia Contagion. It requires you to hold RMB midair... And that's incredibly annoying on weapons with very high zoom. Seriously, just let people glide with melee.

having to aim glide to use it is annoying making it quite hard to make use of it.

 

you also have when your using the fishing spear, the mining tool, the echo lure, when you need to meele slap an enemy an go back to using the item in your hand nope..... forced back into using your last gun. Which i find annoying as some tools remain in use while you use your melee but others dont.

[Jax_Cavalera]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

you also have when your using the fishing spear, the mining tool, the echo lure, when you need to meele slap an enemy an go back to using the item in your hand nope..... forced back into using your last gun. Which i find annoying as some tools remain in use while you use your melee but others dont.

Ok I will admit that last bit there has been a little bit more annoying to me, I mean it isn't a total deal breaker if that's the hit I take to now have some use from melee weapons.. but yes I would prefer if that kind of thing was fixed up.

[vaarnaaarne]

9 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

As a player that never really used melee since melee 2.0 came out I find these changes great, it's actually made using quick-melee something I have started building into my play-style. I can now combo without having to ever pull out my melee weapon as a primary, I can use it to reduce enemy armor on heavies before finishing them off with my guns.

Since they took away stamina, I've lost 100% interest in channeling and am unlikely to ever use it so any negative impacts to melee channeling go over my head completely.. I frequently use Energy Tank builds and simply have no interest in sharing that pool of EHP with a stick i would swing around. 

... again to state.. I am someone that never used or enjoyed melee after the first round of changes came in (aside from coptering.. pre bullet jump).. so take that for what it's worth. I don't know if players in my category were their target demographic for the new changes or if this was meant to be a full player-base type deal ~ 

Well, the issue isn't that the switch in itself is bad. The huge massive bugbear that causes a cavalcade of issues for melee and for people who primarily melee is that RMB is used for switching a weapon. This is because RMB was and is  still used for a huge swath of melee essentials (as detailed in OP), and now instead the new RMB switch only ever actively disrupts melee by causing unwanted weapon switches and zooms (double-plus ungood for Exalted Weapons), which autoblock is not only detrimental it was deliberately made WORSE than the old block (the block angle was massively reduced) while also taking melee glide which a lot of people preferred for precision jumps or long jumps because of the greater spatial awareness the lack of zoom gave (also some like me also preferred to keep zoom toggle and block pressed, so it was also more precise) and instead turning it into yet another possible disruption because in melee if you jump you are very likely to glide against your will.

 

9 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

As someone pointed out to me in another thread, we can easily have manual blocking with the quick-switch system if "switch back to gun" is moved from "aim (RMB)" to "reload (R)" (i.e. pressing R in melee will switch to the gun without actually starting a reload).

This lets RMB be used for both aiming and blocking depending on the mode, without introducing any new buttons or hindering the quick-switch system. It also keeps "switch back to gun" on an intuitive, gun-related button that everyone's already used to pressing.

Also one that in default keybinds is right next to melee.

Edited July 10, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[AlphaPHENIX]

10 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

As someone pointed out to me in another thread, we can easily have manual blocking with the quick-switch system if "switch back to gun" is moved from "aim (RMB)" to "reload (R)" (i.e. pressing R in melee will switch to the gun without actually starting a reload).

This lets RMB be used for both aiming and blocking depending on the mode, without introducing any new buttons or hindering the quick-switch system. It also keeps "switch back to gun" on an intuitive, gun-related button that everyone's already used to pressing.

Wait...which keybindings exactly?
I need this.

[Marvelous_A]

Put "switching out guns" in R key instead of RMB, make blocking an one hand action and it will be fine atm.

IMO the best way is always keeping a separate block button regardless you're using melee or guns. It makes blocking much more handy. And then remove channeling entirely.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[AlphaPHENIX]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Put "switching out guns" in R key instead of RMB, make blocking an one hand action and it will be fine atm.

IMO the best way is always keeping a separate block button regardless you're using melee or guns. It makes blocking much more handy. And then remove channeling entirely.

I don't see one called ''switching out guns'', there is a ''switch gun'' but binding that to R unbinds ''reload'' and the game doesn't let me confirm the change with an unbound reload.

[vaarnaaarne]

It was a suggestion I made in another thread (since narrowed down, the problems with Phase 1 melee 3.0 boil down to RMB switch and autoblock), not something that can be done. If it could be done (as I've mentioned, Reload already switches weapon if you don't have a full magazine, but it starts reloading immediately if you do so, so it'd just need that little distinction addressed if you don't want to roll or something), it would only leave autoblock as a major issue.

Edited July 10, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[(PSN)Schobii564]

I agree with all of this and stay firmly with my idea for the solution

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

On 2019-07-09 at 5:28 PM, SortaRandom said:

As someone pointed out to me in another thread, we can easily have manual blocking with the quick-switch system if "switch back to gun" is moved from "aim (RMB)" to "reload (R)" (i.e. pressing R in melee will switch to the gun without actually starting a reload).

This lets RMB be used for both aiming and blocking depending on the mode, without introducing any new buttons or hindering the quick-switch system. It also keeps "switch back to gun" on an intuitive, gun-related button that everyone's already used to pressing.

I actually think the reload/interact button should be used as a heavy attack button instead. Would remove the movement based combos along with the pause combo. If anything, what they had with the switch weapon button pre 2.9 was fine, it just needed to make swapping instant and remove the need to hold button to switch to melee (still don't understand why that was a thing). The two buttons to switch to gun from melee may have sound good on paper, but definitely not good in execution or the long run. 

[vaarnaaarne]

Well we are getting rid of Pause and Hold combo inputs anyway (good riddance), and I personally have said that melee would benefit from having two attack buttons with separate combo loops but truth is that it's not on the menu so we should rather focus feedback on what is within the realm of possibility.

Which is the problems of the RMB switch and autoblock. Going back to the old system with just instant swap that we have now is one way to fix the current situation. But if we are going to be keeping the way you can switch weapons now I think we should consider the need for a second button that doesn't shoot immediately when used and thus can be used to quickly go to aim instead, the choices are really changing the way switch weapon works now (basically, that it remembers the weapon used before going to melee rather than really switching to the other one) or by having another button gain dual function for switching, where I believe Reload is the best choice due to the default keybind and the association it has with guns to begin with (and since it already does switch if you have less than full magazine; all it needs is to always switch and not immediately start reloading).

[shut]

2 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I actually think the reload/interact button should be used as a heavy attack button instead. Would remove the movement based combos along with the pause combo. If anything, what they had with the switch weapon button pre 2.9 was fine, it just needed to make swapping instant and remove the need to hold button to switch to melee (still don't understand why that was a thing). The two buttons to switch to gun from melee may have sound good on paper, but definitely not good in execution or the long run. 

Man, I've always dreamed of how good WF's melee combat could be if it used a 2-button system with branching combos. IMO, Vindictus (despite its numerous issues) has always been the shining example of how good a 2-button melee system could be. 

Sadly, DE seems pretty intent on keeping the "one button for combos + charge attacks, maybe another button for stat buffs" system, so the best we can realistically do is suggest improvements for the system we currently have. It's fun to dream though 😞

[Loza03]

On 2019-07-09 at 9:59 PM, FalikosekPL said:

1. "Block" combos. The amount of times I accidentally swapped to a friggin sniper while doing melee combos is uncountable. This seems even worse for people who use LMB for melee hits, because swapping to a gun just stops the whole combo, making you press E again to swap to melee
2. Aim gliding. Sometimes I just want to travel through the grineer galleons midair, while blocking all enemy attacks. This is literally impossible now.
3. Valkyr's Hysteria. Swapping to a gun cancels invulnerability. Do I have to say more?
4. Channeling. Swapping to a gun also cancels channeling! And I use it a lot, especially on Inaros. WHY?
5. Exodia Contagion. It requires you to hold RMB midair... And that's incredibly annoying on weapons with very high zoom. Seriously, just let people glide with melee.
6. Wall latching. You can't block anything now while being on a wall, because you have to hold RMB to glide and latch and then press E to switch to melee... Which automatically makes you do a wall attack, jumping off the wall. Great.

Man, all but one of these are about auto-blocking/blocking not, pretty much... And I agree with all of those points. Not necessarily about channeling on account of it being a dead system walking, and arguably being so on arrival. But that's another matter.

If there's one thing about 2.99 that I don't agree with, it's auto-block, for the reasons above. I'd much rather it be where it belongs, with Aim Down Sights being moved to double-tap when in melee mode.

[vaarnaaarne]

I would rather it wouldn't be in double tap either. Imagine you block something, let go, and then suddenly have to block again. Or you change your combo from idle/foward to the +RMB combo (since that's supposedly going to be the new format for combo inputs across the board), except you then change to a different combo again in quick succession, and end up pulling out a weapon the moment your swinging halts. Or you glide, let go, and need to reglide for a trajectory correction.

There should be no weapon switch in RMB at all.

Edited July 12, 2019 by vaarnaaarne