Nightwave missions you literally can't do

[(NSW)Riophilip]

There are some nightwave missions that certain players simply can't do, such as "Gild a modular item". An early player may want the rewards from nora, but literally doesn't have an amp. There are more examples. Any ideas on how to deal with this? I was thinking tailor made missions for players, but that would be very hard and would provoke a lot of salt. 

[Rathalio]

Since you don't have to do every missions to be lvl 30 and get all the rewards at the end of nightwave, that's not really a problem and theses missions are a few.

[Chewarette]

A newcomer can literally gild an item.

(hint: kitgun, zaw, moa are also "modular item")

Edited July 10, 2019 by Chewarette

[Teliko_Freedman]

Does anyone know if Hok's Entitle counts toward Gilding or does not?

[BabyKurama]

10 minutes ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

Does anyone know if Hok's Entitle counts toward Gilding or does not?

You mean chaning its name?

Edited July 10, 2019 by BabyKurama

[Teliko_Freedman]

yeah

[vegetosayajin]

18 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

A newcomer can literally gild an item.

(hint: kitgun, zaw, moa are also "modular item")

That requires:
1.Standing in Fortuna/Cetus  level 3 and time to get to it with the mr cap.
Materials (and knowing when to get them), also gear to get those materials.
If OP is mr1 or of the sort I suggest you forget it, because it's a pretty big grind for a new player and I think it is impossible to get to level 3 in any of the open world zones when you are starting out for the time you have.

On the other hand because of the catch up system that should be up now, you can start to grind the syndicates(fortuna and cetus) for a time when you can get to level 3 in any of them, get the parts for the weapon and do the nightwave challenge then.

[Fallen77]

A new player is not able to do sorties, arbitration, any mission too far for him in the starchart, that is the entire point of being a new player. They can't even make some elemental combos.

Do you want DE to give everything right away ?

Also, NW is tailored for new players un the sense that early levels give stuff for them (150 tokens right away so that they can get potatoes easily). And the later levels are for veterans to get useless limited cosmetics, super early players are not meant to get this far.

Gilding is easy, it takes some time for a noob, but so does everything else. There wouldn't be any game otherwise.

[BabyKurama]

1 hour ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

yeah

nope thats not gilding just renaming

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

That requires:
1.Standing in Fortuna/Cetus  level 3 and time to get to it with the mr cap.
Materials (and knowing when to get them), also gear to get those materials.
If OP is mr1 or of the sort I suggest you forget it, because it's a pretty big grind for a new player and I think it is impossible to get to level 3 in any of the open world zones when you are starting out for the time you have.

Nobody asks you to gild the most optimized kitgun of the world. You can build a Kitgun with the basic parts, which requires quite low-level resources and not an excessive amount of grinding either.

Moas are the least expensive as far as I remember.

Edit : Catchmoon - Ramble - Deepbreath are all Rank 0 (Neutral). 1750 Standing. And only the Alloys (Travocytes - Salvage+Plastids and Axidrol - Ferrite+Rubedo) can eventually be a bit complex to get but that's just mining (Edit edit: that's not even mining, salvage, plastids, ferrite and rubedo). 1000 Standing for both Blueprints at Rank 0 too.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Chewarette

[vegetosayajin]

23 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Nobody asks you to gild the most optimized kitgun of the world. You can build a Kitgun with the basic parts, which requires quite low-level resources and not an excessive amount of grinding either.

I think you didn't get what standing I refer to. I see this issue a lot with people who played for more than 3-4 months - they forget the limitations of mr0-mr3 player(a.k.a. just starting).
You have a cap on the standing you can do in Solaris United per day based on your mr.(like in every syndicate).For you to guild a modular weapon you have to be at rank 3 of Solaris United - Doer, so from level 0 to level 3 you have to gather 71000 standing total to level up to it, not accounting purchasing mining gear, fishing ger(it's little yeah, but for a new player it's from his daily standing and I think for the sun plasma drill it's the whole daily standing worth).At mr1 you have a daily standng cap 2000 for example.
It's not mathematically possible for an mr0-mr1 player to get to level Doer to guild his weapon in a week(or even two weeks) even if he does only this.

Edited July 10, 2019 by vegetosayajin

[5H4DE]

19 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

I think you didn't get what standing I refer to. I see this issue a lot with people who played for more than 3-4 months - they forget the limitations of mr0-mr3 player(a.k.a. just starting).
You have a cap on the standing you can do in Solaris United per day based on your mr.(like in every syndicate).For you to guild a modular weapon you have to be at rank 3 of Solaris United - Doer, so from level 0 to level 3 you have to gather 71000 standing total to level up to it, not accounting purchasing mining gear, fishing ger(it's little yeah, but for a new player it's from his daily standing and I think for the sun plasma drill it's the whole daily standing worth).At mr1 you have a daily standng cap 2000 for example.
It's not mathematically possible for an mr0-mr1 player to get to level Doer to guild his weapon in a week(or even two weeks) even if he does only this.

So are we going to make absolutely everything in this game accessible at MR0 just because a few players can't do a few things (that they don't even need to) yet? Might as well add an Auto-Play feature to the game at this point.

[vegetosayajin]

1 minute ago, TheRealShade said:

So are we going to make absolutely everything in this game accessible at MR0 just because a few players can't do a few things (that they don't even need to) yet? Might as well add an Auto-Play feature to the game at this point.

I'm not trying to say to do anything easy, my point was the OP is right and that is intended imo.
Some challenges in Night Wave are not tattered for new-new players, the people just starting, but more so for the casual player that has played for a while and comes to the first roadblocks like - "I don't have plat for and extra reactor/catalyst/ I can't afford nitain for the first prime frame I managed to get from random fissures" etc.
And for them(because they are probably mr5-mr8 at least) these challenges are perfect and helpful.

[Chewarette]

26 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

It's not mathematically possible for an mr0-mr1 player to get to level Doer to guild his weapon in a week(or even two weeks) even if he does only this.

Being MR0 at the end of the week simply proves you're not really playing the game though

Anyway, is your point that 100% of the Nightwave challenges shall be accessible to MR0 guys ? Meaning all Nightwave challenges should be "kill 50 enemies", because even Elemental combination is kinda hard at the very beginning ? Even yesterday's challenge of Interacting with your Pet is technically impossible after the first 10 minutes of playing ?

[vegetosayajin]

Read OP and than post above.

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, Rathalio said:

Since you don't have to do every missions to be lvl 30 and get all the rewards at the end of nightwave, that's not really a problem and theses missions are a few.

Thats what they said last time.... naturally they neglected to mention you could get more Wolf Cred after rank 30.... hence the pressure to do everything including the impossible challenges was at an all time high...

1 hour ago, TheRealShade said:

So are we going to make absolutely everything in this game accessible at MR0 just because a few players can't do a few things (that they don't even need to) yet? Might as well add an Auto-Play feature to the game at this point.

Of course not.... lets #*!% over new players for arbitrary reasons.... thats great for player retention. :) 

 

[Alexcavalera]

I praise for a day, that this kind of threadscease do exist..
People still complaint about nightwave missoions...and the arguments are getting more, and more ridiculous…
I can´t do that, they shoul do this…
What do you want? thing  be given to you easy, and not earned??
If you can´t gild a weapon, then you should PLAY, EVOLVE, GET BETTER, raise your Rank in Cetus, and then Gild the weapon.
It's like, you want to win the game, whitout playing it.. 
You want to get all the rewards, whitou any kind of effort ?
Are you a only child? are you new to vídeo games?
Gilding a weapon ist not a new mission in Nightwave… The last one had these also..its not that hard to get that rank in Cetus...tha´s why its called elite mission..ELLITE, not Lazy/Noob mission....

 

[ReaverKane]

5 hours ago, Rathalio said:

Since you don't have to do every missions to be lvl 30 and get all the rewards at the end of nightwave, that's not really a problem and theses missions are a few.

There is a problem that the system is poorly designed.

2 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

I praise for a day, that this kind of threadscease do exist..
People still complaint about nightwave missoions...and the arguments are getting more, and more ridiculous…
I can´t do that, they shoul do this…
What do you want? thing  be given to you easy, and not earned??
If you can´t gild a weapon, then you should PLAY, EVOLVE, GET BETTER, raise your Rank in Cetus, and then Gild the weapon.
It's like, you want to win the game, whitout playing it.. 
You want to get all the rewards, whitou any kind of effort ?
Are you a only child? are you new to vídeo games?
Gilding a weapon ist not a new mission in Nightwave… The last one had these also..its not that hard to get that rank in Cetus...tha´s why its called elite mission..ELLITE, not Lazy/Noob mission....

 

If you can't distinguish between complaining and giving actual feedback, here's a hint, you're doing the first in that post, and not the second.
These complains are actually the same from the start, the language might have changed slightly, but the problems are the same. Nightwave isn't well implemented, it lacks engagement, it has poor rewards, and it's an incredible chore, that is so poorly designed that it actively excludes players.
And the fact that you can miss some acts is not an excuse for it to be allowed to be poorly implemented. First, because, you don't really know how many you can skip, since, again, you don't know when it ends.

Second because bad design should be eliminated, not excused.

The problems with Nightwave haven't changed, and some of the "issues" they addressed, were actually the most ridiculous ones like "can't play with friends", instead of fixing actual problems, with challenges being disconnected from a lot of player's reality, like forcing MR27 players to Gild more modular items (if they're 27 they've had to gild most if not all of them already, just to get to MR27).

2 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

How's that? Can a new player do a Sortie? NO! He needs to evolve and progress in the game!
Can a new player do na Arbitration? NO! He needs to finish the satr Map.
Can a new player use a MR16 Riven?? No he need to evolve to that level…
Can a new player do 100% of all the nightwave Season 2 missions?? Maybe not….
See whre i am going..?? This is a game, game = chalenges= effort= rewards

Dude, you yourself admit they're DENIED the rewards. Your argument is void and entirely contradicting itself. There's no challenge if they can't participate in it. There's no effort to be made, because they can't participate, there's no rewards, because they're DENIED THE CHALLENGE.

You want to know how this SHOULD be implemented, look up Guild Wars 2 daily achievements. Those change based on what players can do (level, owned expansions, etc), and offer multiple choices of which only a few are needed to complete, but are still rewarding to make, since each challenge offers its own reward, and not just progression towards completion. That way they feel rewarding, and people do them naturally, without feeling they are chores.

But, here you are too busy feeling good for yourself, because you "understand" while missing the fact, that most people don't give a flying fluff about how good you feel about yourself, and the average gamer is fickle, and in the long run, bleeding players because you're too busy feeling good about yourself to give proper feedback on an incomplete feature, is going to lead the game to go down the deep end, because this is a free to play game, it needs to keep getting people actively playing and actively buying cosmetics.
And you want to know who's the people that pay more for play? It's not the guys that grind for everything in the game, its the guy that can't be bothered to grind, and just throws money at it. By pushing those people away, they're just throwing away money.

I'm not saying make the game pay to win, but they need to not justify their poorly designed and flawed content with "some people did it", that's HEMA all over again, and that S#&$ is still the outlier causing issues.
Because, again some people were too busy feeling good about themselves to realize it was an issue.

Edited July 10, 2019 by ReaverKane

[Alexcavalera]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Thats what they said last time.... naturally they neglected to mention you could get more Wolf Cred after rank 30.... hence the pressure to do everything including the impossible challenges was at an all time high...

Of course not.... lets #*!% over new players for arbitrary reasons.... thats great for player retention. :) 

 

How's that? Can a new player do a Sortie? NO! He needs to evolve and progress in the game!
Can a new player do na Arbitration? NO! He needs to finish the satr Map.
Can a new player use a MR16 Riven?? No he need to evolve to that level…
Can a new player do 100% of all the nightwave Season 2 missions?? Maybe not….
See whre i am going..?? This is a game, game = chalenges= effort= rewards

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

How's that? Can a new player do a Sortie? NO! He needs to evolve and progress in the game!
Can a new player do na Arbitration? NO! He needs to finish the satr Map.
Can a new player use a MR16 Riven?? No he need to evolve to that level…
Can a new player do 100% of all the nightwave Season 2 missions?? Maybe not….
See whre i am going..?? This is a game, game = chalenges= effort= rewards

Yeah this doesn't describe Warframe at all....

[PazuulLoveMe]

10 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

There are some nightwave missions that certain players simply can't do, such as "Gild a modular item". An early player may want the rewards from nora, but literally doesn't have an amp. There are more examples. Any ideas on how to deal with this? I was thinking tailor made missions for players, but that would be very hard and would provoke a lot of salt. 

If this Nightwave still follows the "70% rulle", you won't need to do every challenge to reach rank 30 in this event.

A new player can still work on their Cetus rep, to "trusted". If they miss the deadline on the "gild" challenge, it will eventually reset. 

[Alexcavalera]

On 2019-07-10 at 4:46 PM, ReaverKane said:

There is a problem that the system is poorly designed.

If you can't distinguish between complaining and giving actual feedback, here's a hint, you're doing the first in that post, and not the second.
These complains are actually the same from the start, the language might have changed slightly, but the problems are the same. Nightwave isn't well implemented, it lacks engagement, it has poor rewards, and it's an incredible chore, that is so poorly designed that it actively excludes players.

Poorly designed ? Like mine, it's you opinion, not a statement! You think it's poorlu designed, i thik its better than old one (good design).

 

On 2019-07-10 at 4:46 PM, ReaverKane said:

But, here you are too busy feeling good for yourself, because you "understand" while missing the fact, that most people don't give a flying fluff about how good you feel about yourself, and the average gamer is fickle, and in the long run, bleeding players because you're too busy feeling good about yourself to give proper feedback on an incomplete feature, is going to lead the game to go down the deep end, because this is a free to play game, it needs to keep getting people actively playing and actively buying cosmetics.

Sorry if you understand in that way, maybe i explained in the wrong way, but you were fast to Judge me! 🙂 ! But, i am answering because i cant uderstand waht you are saying.... (and i can´t and won´t judge you, because a few setences you wrote) .

i was talking and giving some personal ideias about the NW system, and showing some arguments about the fact i liked it very much, explaining that some NW task are ELLITE tasks, and, by definition should be only acessible to players that acomplished that( i like this mechanics). I really don´t uderstand your arguments about new players, and pay to win...We were talking about the new system, and about de complexity (or not) of some of the tasks to do, and the dificculty of it, and i can't figure out , waat pay to win  and new players are affected by this system..
Are you saying that when you started playing, the old alert systems was waht engaged you whith the game? The new system will make them leave...? For me, when i satrted playing the game ( November/december 2018), i never used the alerts missions, only when i saw POTATOES. My priorities where : PROGRESS tru STAR MAP. I was ansiouns to do new missions and bosses, an getting better wepons/frames... But i am just one. everybody plays an see the game quite diferentely.

What i can say to you, and of course, it's just an opinion, ( i am just a regular player giving is opinion, i am not the Owner of  the reason, and i could be wrong, and maybe i am), is that i mlove the new system. My 3  freinds that play this awsome game for more than 4 yers (they are MR 27), theu love this system, and began very active again when NW1 started..)

To finish, i would like to say, WARFRAME is not a difficult game, it does not demands refined  gameplay like other games, but it requires dedication ( Hours played 🙂 ), and if you take that, and make everything acessible ( or payable, like you said), what does that left you?? If the game doesn´t reward commitement, what will?? Cheesing through all the content? Taxiing everything??

But Tenno, please don't judge me like you, because i won't!

May RNG always favour you! Thanx in advance! (PS : not english native..sry for errors)

[ReaverKane]

4 hours ago, Alexcavalera said:

Poorly designed ? Like mine, it's you opinion, not a statement! You think it's poorlu designed, i thik its better than old one (good design).

To a point it is a matter of opinion, but then there's also common design rules, and there's it's stated objectives. So knowing those you can infer whether it is a good design or not.
So here's their stated objective: Replace Alerts.
Now, we can say on face value, yeah it replaced alerts, since we don't have alerts now, but we have nightwave.
So the question is, what was the functions of Alerts?
Here is where you can be more subjective.

For me Alerts served three purposes (in order of importance):

1. Something immediate and short term for me to do in game. We usually have long and medium term goals, like get to MR X, get Warframe Y, level up Weapon X, etc. But Alerts were the thing that gave you something to do when you were fealing like you had "nothing to wear" even with a lot of stuff to do that.
    
2. A way to get some useful stuff... When they ended it was usually the random alt helmet, Void Traces (believe it or not) and the good stuff like Reactors and such. I was done with Nitain, and haven't found much reason to use the one i've stockpiled so far.
    
3. A "place" where i knew i'd get people doing the same thing i was. Hot joining groups is always weird except in two places: Alerts and Sorties. Everywhere else everyone's objectives and agenda vary. You go into an endless mission hoping to get to Rotation C at least? Odds are one or more of your party will extract at first chance. Doing your first mission on an invasion? Good luck keeping the same squad through the 3. Oh and people don't freaking leave when their done, so you're stuck there waiting for a vote to go, only for someone to leave at 1 second (50-50 odds of it being the host and just disbanding the squad).

Of all these, the only thing that Nightwave provides in a similar way is #2. And i say similar, because of reasons i'll explain next. So how does it fulfill or not these things?

1. It doesn't, not in the same way... You have more or less immediate goals, but since they're not actual missions and objectives (for the most part), it still keeps that same issue of "what to wear?".
    
2.  Their objective with Nightwave Creds was ending the RNG and making rewards more readily available. But they didn't the rewards are still random, and worse, instead of having a new "draw" every 30 minutes or however often we got a new Alert, its weekly. Sure you get a bigger pot, but you'll still have less draws, so it's MORE random, especially for the people that rely the most on Alerts for stuff... To me i just use it to get whatever Alt helms i'm missing (none atm) and the random skin they thrown on it, and then i just use up the rest of my creds on reactors and catalysts.
   Also, it doesn't provide that handy source of rare resources for new players that it did. I still remember relying a lot on alerts for orokin cells and tellurium back when i was starting (tellurium was actually right up to when they ended pretty much).
    
3. It simply doesn't. Everyone has those same Acts, but how they go about doing them is entirely up to them, so its entirely unreliable on that front (except for a few really specific ones where you will more commonly find people doing them, like Kuva Survival or bounties).
   And yes you can say this can be done with Clans or the Recruitment chat. It can, but it's more work, and involves more waiting, also this is somewhat of an extension of #1.

Now onto the objective... A good design usually is measured by being comprehensible, consistent, predictable, extensible, and elegant.

Is it all these things?

Comprehensible? The challenges (for the most part) are straightforward. But many aren't. Especially in the new iteration with the "Unique" modifier added to some of them, and others like Operator spies being a bit janky. Now for the Nightwave as a broader thing, it's totally not comprehensible. The story is delivered in bits and pieces, a lot of information is withheld from us (like i only learned the existence of the Wolf weeks after it released, and it was over a month before i had him spawn on me), in this wave i read that there's some guys that spawn to ress you, but that's it.
So i'd say it's 70% comprehensible.

Consistent... This one's my favourite. There's nothing consistent on Nightwave, from the difficulty vs Reward of challenges (like you're going to tell me with a straight face that doing 8 non consecutive waves of ESO is harder than gilding a modular item?) and even the consistency comparing similar dificulty challenges is out of whack, like doing a regular survival has the same reward as doing a Kuva Survival (and that's already improved, because it used to be a Kuva survival with no life support used).
Also its inconsistent in the spawn of the extra mechanics (like the Wolf, and whatever).

Predictable. We don't know when it ends, we don't know how many of the challenges we can skip, we don't know what's coming next week in the creds or challenges, we don't know when the X mob added with Nightwaves will spawn. The only thing that's predictable is that you'll have another week of chores on Monday.

Extensible. I'd say that it is in every meaning of the word. They can easily extend it's scope, and how the story is delivered (although that would be more of a fix than an extension), it is extendible in time as well through seasons. It was clearly designed to be extensible.
But, it lacks flexibility. And that's actually the whole point of this thread. It's inflexible which means that edge case users (like the really low or the really high MR) are excluded from it's scope by the nature of some challenges which are impossible for new players (not because of difficulty but denial of access), and others are extremely wasteful for high MR players who are asked to just use up resources for nothing other than 4.5k standing. A reward, that for the Forma Challenge, for example, is less than half what you'll need to get to get the Forma back from Nightwave (another inconsistency).

Elegant... This one, again is a bit subjective. I can think of a few more elegant ways to replace the old Alerts, and even offered, and seen offered a few more elegant solutions to Nightwave it'self. So, personally, i don't find the current Iteration to be elegant as well...

Speaking of Iteration. That's another best practice for software design, it should be iterative. And even there Nightwave is flawed. They have already demonstrated that they can't easily iterate on it due to how it works and it's multi-platform nature.

Finally, there's this one thing that is commonly agreed to be demonstrative of good design in a game: Is it fun?

I think we can objectively say, not really. I mean the rewards are fun (but they can be delivered in any other old way). The challenges themselves, are not. They're all pretty much busy work, they're chores, which by its definition makes them not fun. Nightwave doesn't really make the game more fun, you're doing stuff that you'd probably do on your own, but just being forced into someone else's schedule and pace. That is the opposite of fun. It's like being told to read a book for school. It might have been a book you'd have enjoyed if you picked it up by yourself, but just the fact that you have to read it, drains the fun out of it.

 

4 hours ago, Alexcavalera said:

Sorry if you understand in that way, maybe i explained in the wrong way, but you were fast to Judge me! 🙂 ! But, i am answering because i cant uderstand waht you are saying.... (and i can´t and won´t judge you, because a few setences you wrote) .

i was talking and giving some personal ideias about the NW system, and showing some arguments about the fact i liked it very much, explaining that some NW task are ELLITE tasks, and, by definition should be only acessible to players that acomplished that( i like this mechanics). I really don´t uderstand your arguments about new players, and pay to win...We were talking about the new system, and about de complexity (or not) of some of the tasks to do, and the dificculty of it, and i can't figure out , waat pay to win  and new players are affected by this system..
Are you saying that when you started playing, the old alert systems was waht engaged you whith the game? The new system will make them leave...? For me, when i satrted playing the game ( November/december 2018), i never used the alerts missions, only when i saw POTATOES. My priorities where : PROGRESS tru STAR MAP. I was ansiouns to do new missions and bosses, an getting better wepons/frames... But i am just one. everybody plays an see the game quite diferentely.

What i can say to you, and of course, it's just an opinion, ( i am just a regular player giving is opinion, i am not the Owner of  the reason, and i could be wrong, and maybe i am), is that i mlove the new system. My 3  freinds that play this awsome game for more than 4 yers (they are MR 27), theu love this system, and began very active again when NW1 started..)

To finish, i would like to say, WARFRAME is not a difficult game, it does not demands refined  gameplay like other games, but it requires dedication ( Hours played 🙂 ), and if you take that, and make everything acessible ( or payable, like you said), what does that left you?? If the game doesn´t reward commitement, what will?? Cheesing through all the content? Taxiing everything??

But Tenno, please don't judge me like you, because i won't!

May RNG always favour you! Thanx in advance! (PS : not english native..sry for errors)

Sorry, but saying players are lazy is not offering feedback. And yeah we know the previous wave had it, we said it was bad then too! So, no i'm not judging you, i'm judging your actions and your REITERATED words.
Elite Challenges aren't that Elite, and guess what? Gilding stuff ISN'T AN ELITE CHALLENGE! It's a normal 4500 weekly challenge. So you're wrong just by talking!

I didn't mention Pay to Win... I mentioned that the game needs to make money. And guess who's the person that will like Nightwave the least? The guy that consistently buys warframes, forma, catalysts and the like? Or the guy that consistently grinds them? Now guess who's the person that is putting more food on DE's mouths? Not to mention that, but it's a common mantra for F2P MMORPGs, they need to consistently and constantly get new and old players engaged, because of being Free to Play, they need a larger population to make the same money, because while on B2P or Subscription games, they get paid upfront by 100% of players, DE has to rely on the smaller % of players that pays for stuff. That's why it's important for them not ostracize new players (which they do in oh so many ways), and they also need to keep veterans engaged, because every player is important.

Yeah, i'm saying that Alerts engaged me with the game a lot. Me and my brother we used Alerts a lot to get materials and other stuff we needed, like resources, Auras, Vauban, etc. I don't know if i'd have persisted with the game if Nightwave was active back then, and i definitely wouldn't have progressed as fast as i did.

And yes, my brother, who's a guy that pretty much likes to grind for games (currently playing Albion Online and BDO) stopped playing almost completely when he looked at the Gild Challenge. The guy that got me playing isn't playing since Nightwave hit. Another guy that plays with us and has been playing Warframe, logs in maybe once a week, BECAUSE OF NIGHTWAVE. And it's not just them, there's a ton of people saying the same IN THE FORUMS, imagine how many more done so and that don't engage with the community for us to be aware of them.

The fact that you didn't know what you were doing doesn't make Alerts less valuable, and again, the fact that your friends like it, doesn't mean its actually good or flawless.. And i very much doubt your MR27 friends are happily Gilding new Amps or whatever.. But hey, some people like to get beat up and tortured, so again taste is irrelevant.

No one said Warframe is a dificult game. But it does require refinement, in many points, and DE is actually ramping the game to require more and more of that. Second, there's a difference between asking for commitment, and asking us to just waste away doing chores, and Nightwave isn't the only place where this is an issue, it's actually that confusion between commitment/reward that is at the basis of many problems with Warframe, from the Arbitrations Fiasco to how most people don't really play endurance runs of endless modes. Third, it DOESN'T reward commitment. That's exactly the point of this thread!

No matter how commited the players are, a guy that started today won't get MR10 within a week to play ESO, and i firmly doubt he'll have the resources to Gild an Amp, or access to 3 forma without spending plat. That's the WHOLE POINT of this thread. Nightwave isn't adjusted to many players.

But again, there's many other ways where it doesn't reward commitment. For example, i know people who commited hours to farming the Wolf Hunt missions and didn't get the mask... I personally needed 149 runs to get it. And mind you, there's definitely people that had to do more, since, mathematically, 5% of the population needed more than 150 runs to get the mask, and 1% needs more than 400. If 100+ runs isn't commitment enough from a player, what the hell is?
That's the same thing with stuff like condition overload, or most of Archwing-related mods, they have such tiny drop rates that many people, no matter how much time they commit, won't get it. That's not how you make a game fun, and i repeat, that's the point of games.
Games aren't a relationship, they're not your girlfriend or your child, they're supposed to be entertainment, they're meant to be fun. Sure you can engage and commit to them, but that's not their function. And Warframe has a terrible, terrible problem with being rewarding, because a lot of people mistake engaging with content with commitment.
 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

No matter how commited the players are, a guy that started today won't get MR10 within a week to play ESO, and i firmly doubt he'll have the resources to Gild an Amp, or access to 3 forma without spending plat. That's the WHOLE POINT of this thread. Nightwave isn't adjusted to many players

There is plenty in the game for them to do other than nightwave.

there is plenty of nightwave they can do to get some credits to buy nitain, potatoes etc.  so they won't get to R30 this season.  Its not a big deal.

There is also plenty other content in the game that is locked out - MR weapons, rivens etc.  WIth their lack of amps and any meaningful gear they also shouldn't be doing Eidolons so the majority of arcanes are out too.  Even vay hek requires MR5.

Whats wrong with having something to work towards? If they don't like the journey, warframe isn't for them.

So some aspects of NW isn't adjusted to new players. If they want the rewards, they can get them next season.

 

 

[niutp]

Correct, NW is intended for older/stronger players. By its design. Some quests are easier so new players can do that and earn auras or nitain even if they earn 1/10 of rate as veterans do.

It may be a tiny bit harder for newbies, as there aren't effortless 10k credit, 100 endo, resources, orokin cell, aura from alerts, but they bumped up the NW money earned and spaced it lower.

Edited July 12, 2019 by niutp

[(NSW)Riophilip]

On 2019-07-10 at 2:11 PM, Chewarette said:

A newcomer can literally gild an item.

(hint: kitgun, zaw, moa are also "modular item")

Not really. You have to a lot of work to get those in the first place, (standing grinding, item collection etc.) and then you have to do even more grinding for the standing to be allowed to gild it. It might take, like, a month, but if a player is newly introduced to the concept because he wants the rewards, he isn't going to have enough time for it. And no, he can't go back with the redo option, because he has do all the new challenges first.