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Ash, Suggestions For Unboring It.


ThePresident777
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1)  Smoke Screen:

  a)  AOE, effect all party members in AOE.

  b)  Modified by Focus, Continuity, Constitution, and Stretch.

 

2)  Teleport:

  a)  Teleport behind target and do instant sneak attack

  b)  Get 5 sec of invisibility. 

  c)  Target does not have to be a critter.  Can teleport to locations also. 

  d)  Modified by Focus, Continuity, Constitution, and Stretch.

 

3)  Shuriken: 

  a)  Give it 120 degree cone AOE

  b)  Hit 12 targets(1 target per 10 degrees)

  c)  Stun all targets hit

  d)  Does sneak attack damage if Ash is invisible and behind targets.

  e)  Modified by Focus, Continuity, Constitution, and Stretch.

 

4)  Blade Storm:

  a)  AOE buff to all party weapons(melee too).

  b)  +25% armor piercing damage

  c)  +1 meter puncture

  d)  add stagger ability to each shot/swing.

  e)  Modified by Focus, Continuity, Constitution, and Stretch.

 

You see how this works?  With these suggestions, Ash goes from being a boring selfish Warframe to being a party asset, a party force multiplier while still fulfilling his role effectively, solo or in party.

 

Sequence of Events:

1)  Blade Storm,  buff party damage.

2)  Teleport to HVT, inflict massive damage

3)  Shuriken, HVT body guards

4)  Teleport back to party

5)  Smoke Screen, disrupt enemy, give party recovery time.

 

Party draws enemy fire and engages enemy main force while Ash performs ninja style HVT sabotage functions.

 

FUN!

Edited by ThePresident777
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The Smoke Screen change would be nice, but everything else would be overpowered. 

 

Teleport shouldn't give an instant sneak attack, but it should stun the target for 1-2 seconds.  I admit that I would love the capability to teleport freely, as well. 

 

Shuriken just needs to be made into a Glaive throw with unlimited puncture and range, and 500 armor piercing damage. 

 

Blade Storm just needs to kill targets more quickly (a LOT more quickly). 

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You people and your stupid overpowered crap, you are totally missing the point.  It's a coop game.  Warframes need to coop!

Blade storm does not need to kill targets more quickly because that is what all the other Press 4 to Win abilities are for(which I happen to enjoy).  And, pressing 4 to win, has nothing to do with Ash's role as a stealth Warframe.

Shuriken as glaive is a total waste because we have weapons for that.

My suggestions fit Ash perfectly:  party force multiplier while still fulfilling his role effectively, solo or in party; party draws enemy fire and engages enemy main force while Ash performs ninja style HVT sabotage functions. 

 

I'm not spewing a bunch of random stuff for arbitrary "reasons" here. 

Edited by ThePresident777
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each persons idea of what perfect is is different ...

I think ash is perfect as is he is a really fun frame to me I dont play him for the kills or any reason similar to why i would play the other frames. I play him when i want out of the regular. His smoke screen can make it easy for him to pick fallen comrades up his teleport is good for going to a friendly who needs help and shuriken is a good dps power where as his ult gives this nice feel of most peoples idea of what a ninja is while being the only power that gives a cinematic feel and so for me your suggestions dont fit ash at all

 

1 it would be kinda nice to make smoke screen a team affecting aoe .. however i find that makes missions much easier which would cause more complaints about how this games easy and needs more difficulty

2 I like the idea of making teleport work based on locations but I feel that the instant attack is just being suggested for laziness personally i find adding that would actually reduce my dps effectiveness with teleport

3 the aoe range would be too much, do you understand how much 120 degrees is ? the stun would fit ok maybe even giving a very small dps increase if you use it behind the enemy too. two targets is enough though due to how much damage it can do the only way i could see this as a good change is if it was turned into an ultimate and switched slots with your idea for blade storm

4 the change to bladestorm would be OP theres no doubt on that .. opens the way for even more complaints on the game being easy. There are many powers that buff dps of party members already and your suggested change would be a complete scrap of the current power while shoving ash into the mainstream of frames

 

To me the devs have Ash down to a T 

don't go insulting people just because they don't agree with you it wont change their views why not try instead to discuss with them why your views might be a better change for ash then what they think should be changed on ash

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You see how this works?  With these suggestions, Ash goes from being a boring selfish Warframe to being a party asset, a party force multiplier while still fulfilling his role effectively, solo or in party.

Uhhh... problem. Ash isn't boring, and he isn't selfish. Ash is amazing. Any and all of the changes you have suggested would vastly overpower him. If teleport gave a sneak attack, it would need to be significant damage to be worth it, which drives up the energy cost, which reduces its utility. If smokescreen affected everyone, the duration would have to be lessened, and bear in mind that Ash gets sneak attack damage while invisible. This makes smokescreen and its role on Ash (a way to approach and kill heavy units without being sighted, removing problem units for the team with minimal losses of health) much less effective. You can't add more targets to Shuriken without taking something away or making it OP, which takes away from Shuriken's role as a damage dealer to problem units, or an extra mode of damage when you need to kill something fast and your weapon needs reloading you don't have time for. Bladestorm is perfect as it is. It allows a temporarily invincible warframe to go out and kill reduce opposition at particularly tough intervals, especially since it returns him to his starting location.
You say Ash isn't a team player. I say you just aren't using him right. He fills his niche perfectly, and any changes to him will either make him OP or take him away from his role, which I happen to like.

 

You people and your stupid overpowered crap, you are totally missing the point.  It's a coop game.  Warframes need to coop!

Blade storm does not need to kill targets more quickly because that is what all the other Press 4 to Win abilities are for(which I happen to enjoy).  And, pressing 4 to win, has nothing to do with Ash's role as a stealth Warframe.

Shuriken as glaive is a total waste because we have weapons for that.

My suggestions fit Ash perfectly:  party force multiplier while still fulfilling his role effectively, solo or in party; party draws enemy fire and engages enemy main force while Ash performs ninja style HVT sabotage functions. 

 

I'm not spewing a bunch of random stuff for arbitrary "reasons" here. 

You're the one trying to overpower Ash. The two statements I can agree with are "pressing 4 to win has nothing to do with Ash's role as a Stealth Warframe" and "Shuriken as glaive is a total waste because we have weapons for that."
What I can't understand is that if you understand and acknowledge Ash's Stealth focus, why are you trying to change him? Your suggestions do not fit Ash perfectly, you want to undermine his versatility dealing with problem units and applying some sideways pressure to the enemy. You want to make him another ability buffing support frame, which he is emphatically not.
You are totally missing the point. Warframe has solo, too. A frame needs staying power, and revolving every aspect of the game around team-mates you may not always have ruins it. You seem to think abilities based around buffing team-mates and stunning enemies for team-mates is fine for solo. It's really not. Ash is well balanced, fun, and not boring at all as he is.

 

Boring troll, be gone.

What are you, ten? The guy gave his honest opinion, get off his case. I happen to, to some degree, agree. I don't want it to do more damage, and it serves it's role perfectly. It's just that, cool as they are, the individual animations can mean Ash is gone for some time doing it. If it didn't change, I would be perfectly content because it works, and it IS the coolest single ability in the game in my opinion. Just tactically speaking it is less than ideal.

 

each persons idea of what perfect is is different ...

I think ash is perfect as is he is a really fun frame to me I dont play him for the kills or any reason similar to why i would play the other frames. I play him when i want out of the regular. His smoke screen can make it easy for him to pick fallen comrades up his teleport is good for going to a friendly who needs help and shuriken is a good dps power where as his ult gives this nice feel of most peoples idea of what a ninja is while being the only power that gives a cinematic feel and so for me your suggestions dont fit ash at all

 

To me the devs have Ash down to a T 

This. His every ability has a variety of uses, and fit his theme, flavor, and role down to a T.

 

Please remain on topic.  Topic:  Transform Ash into a party force multiplier while still fulfilling his role effectively, solo or in party.

Excuse me? You're getting onto him for being off-topic, when YOU went off-topic to insult someone we are now defending? Someone who WAS on topic? I take back my earlier comment. You're clearly only 6. Or a narcissist. Probably both.

Edited by Siubijeni
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1 it would be kinda nice to make smoke screen a team affecting aoe .. however i find that makes missions much easier which would cause more complaints about how this games easy and needs more difficulty

 

That does not matter because easy and hard are just numbers in this game.  If it's easier, you go 10 waves more and if it's harder, you go 10 waves less.  It does not matter.  You get the same reward doing the same thing.  So, no one should ever shoot down an idea because it makes the game easier or harder.  They should simply adjust a parameter, not shoot down ideas.

 

2 I like the idea of making teleport work based on locations but I feel that the instant attack is just being suggested for laziness personally i find adding that would actually reduce my dps effectiveness with teleport

 

What?  Teleport does not do damage, so how is adding an attack to teleport going to reduce your DPS??????????

 

3 the aoe range would be too much, do you understand how much 120 degrees is ? the stun would fit ok maybe even giving a very small dps increase if you use it behind the enemy too. two targets is enough though due to how much damage it can do the only way i could see this as a good change is if it was turned into an ultimate and switched slots with your idea for blade storm

 

It's limited to 10 targets so 120 degrees is not too much.  I should suggest one target per 10 degrees as a reasonable way of calculating targets per degree.

 

4 the change to bladestorm would be OP theres no doubt on that .. opens the way for even more complaints on the game being easy. There are many powers that buff dps of party members already and your suggested change would be a complete scrap of the current power while shoving ash into the mainstream of frames

There are only 2 powers that buff DPS of party.  Both give +50% damage.  My suggestions give less +damage, half actually, and instead makes things more different, less regular.  It gives defense through offense which is not regular in this game.

Edited by ThePresident777
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That does not matter because easy and hard are just numbers in this game.  If it's easier, you go 10 waves more and if it's harder, you go 10 waves less.  It does not matter.  You get the same reward doing the same thing.  So, no one should ever shoot down an idea because it makes the game easier or harder.  They should simply adjust a parameter, not shoot down ideas.

And there it is. Problem number two: only defenses have waves, and you don't get the same reward for doing the same thing. Going longer gives you progressively harder enemies, which drop progressively richer resources. Even applying this to Survivals, you get progressively better and more rewards for going longer. Using this as a universal argument is simply terrible. This is where I direct you to a ridiculous picture and tell you your argument is invalid.

The difficulty of the game is an extremely valid reason to shoot an idea down. That's like saying a warframe with an ability that kills every enemy unit on the map for 25 energy shouldn't be shot down because even though it makes the game easier and removes all semblance of skill, "easy and hard are just numbers in this game."

Congratulations, my friend. You just broke the internets, and blew my mind.

 

What?  Teleport does not do damage, so how is adding an attack to teleport going to reduce your DPS??????????

Because adding an attack will extend the duration of Teleport. If it doesn't, the ability is entirely unfair, and if it doesn't there's obviously no graphic added for it so that reduces the cool factor significantly. Because teleport is only 25 energy, the damage added would have to be miniscule, or bump up the energy cost which reduces it's utility infinitely. And if the damage added is miniscule, you're better off getting in a swing or shot with your own weapon during that extra duration, thus reducing your DPS.

 

It's limited to 10 targets so 120 degrees is not too much.  I should suggest one target per 10 degrees as a reasonable way of calculating targets per degree.

Yes. Shuriken, a first ability for 25 energy, hitting 10 targets. Because fireball hits ten targets. Because shock does as much damage as Shuriken. Because both of them can get headshot damage, just like it. This is perfectly reasonable.

Might I add that in my experience, with the second projectile added at max level, it is possible to kill two units around 100 degrees apart? It's plenty powerful, and my second favorite ability in the game.

 

There are only 2 powers that buff DPS of party.  Both give +50% damage.  My suggestions give less +damage, half actually, and instead makes things more different, less regular.  It gives defense through offense which is not regular in this game.

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Let's see. Rhino can roar, which at max level boosts damage by 80%. Banshee has her sonar, which boosts damage to weakspots by 500%. Then there's Nova, who is the only one that actually does that 50% you mentioned. Strangely enough, I would qualify slowing them down, multiplying damage, and priming them for a chain reaction defense through offense. It's hard for them to hurt you when they've all died in a matter of seconds.
Then there's Banshee's sound quake. Staggers everything in quite a large radius while killing them. Also could be argued as your "not regular" defense through offense. And what about all the OTHER "press 4 to win" abilities?

 

Did anyone else notice him totally ignore me and the points he cannot refute? I know I did.

Edited by Siubijeni
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I like the idea of making teleport work based on locations but I feel that the instant attack is just being suggested for laziness personally i find adding that would actually reduce my dps effectiveness with teleport

 

Or they could make teleport put u behind the target and stun them like they should of done from the beginning. Also teleport is a utility ability so why make it do damage.

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Shuriken becomes way too strong in this, it's almost a mini-ultimate.

Smoke Screen also becomes incredibly strong here, it also makes it completely better than the loki invisibility, instead of the current version which is short but compensated with a cc at the start, which makes it equal to the long invisibility ability.

Blade Storm changes are slightly confusing, are these added on top of the current ability or are they replacing it? If it's added then it's overpowered, if it's a replacement then it's actually even more dull than the current ultimate.

Teleport is actually the only thing here that is reasonable.

Fun here is subjective to your tastes, which are tastes I don't agree with, out of my current warframes Ash is pretty much the only one I consistently come back to and use, but your version of Ash is a mix between way too strong(reduces the fun of challenge),a little bit boring and a great improvement to teleport.

That's just my opinion though.

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1. Smoke Screen stagger should be affected by stretch and continuity. Smoke Screen bonus damage should be affected by power focus.

 

2. Teleport should work on non-critters.

 

3. Shuriken is fine. 

 

4. Blade Storm should increase number of targets with continuity and deal serrated damage.

 

^ anything above that and Ash is too powerful.

Edited by Mastikator2
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I have been playing Ash since the beginning and here is what think.

 

1). Shuriken is fine considering I am doing 1000dmg to two enemy's for 25 energy that is a fair trade.

 

2). Smoke Screen is not meant to be a support ability so it should not affect everyone. It is meant to be a quick stealth

to avoid a large group of enemy's. [aoe stealth will remove aggro from your team and put it all on one target like the cryopod or a unexpecting team member]

 

3).Teleport needs to lose that f*****g flip. It would be a lot better if it did not put me directly in front of who I am trying to kill because like in real if someone pops up in front of you, you will immediately punch them in the face.

 

4). Now to may favorite ability Blade Storm. It is fine the way it is, it does not need to do more damage, kill more targets and it does not need a new animation but it wouldn't hurt if it went a bit faster. 

Edited by Okmari
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That does not matter because easy and hard are just numbers in this game.  If it's easier, you go 10 waves more and if it's harder, you go 10 waves less.  It does not matter.  You get the same reward doing the same thing.  So, no one should ever shoot down an idea because it makes the game easier or harder.  They should simply adjust a parameter, not shoot down ideas.

Tell that to a good chunk of the player base im not the one making complaints Im just bringing up what is being complained about since these players are also some of the ones who pay into the game

 

What?  Teleport does not do damage, so how is adding an attack to teleport going to reduce your DPS??????????

The move in its self does no damage how ever it enables you to tactically position your self to stab a few enemies putting in an auto attack will take out your choice of what and how you attack

 

It's limited to 10 targets so 120 degrees is not too much.  I should suggest one target per 10 degrees as a reasonable way of calculating targets per degree.

You may think it isnt too much but it is only 60 degrees off the expected field of view in real life how does that work out when its a small projectile? since shuriken only throws 2 projectiles i would expect a maximum of 5 degrees per projectile with the degrees minimizing as it goes far from you since then a projectile could start out at affecting 2 feet to affecting 20 feet in game. That makes no sense. Also the shuriken already has a stagger and a puncture ability  for up to 2 times so its effective targets can be up to 6. you would have to remove the puncture ability or your change would make it 30 targets which would put it on par with an ultimate

 

There are only 2 powers that buff DPS of party.  Both give +50% damage.  My suggestions give less +damage, half actually, and instead makes things more different, less regular.  It gives defense through offense which is not regular in this game.
rhinos roar, novas mprime 2 is still enough especially since they both give 50% prior to focus thats excluding the hidden damage increase from abbilities that stagger/slow down or create weak points
 
most frames are dps (just press 4) how is your change making a difference again ? a quarter increase is still an increase .. you will have people out there who will start demanding there be a rhino nova and ash in their party at all times always doing their buffs just so they can have 125% extra damage prior focus. is that really needed ? no. The other part of your suggestion, adding puncture will still increase dps sure its not another 25% over all but its making up for the fact that the actual dps increase given is a quarter
 
Honestly defense through offense not regular? I find what isnt regular is actual defensive skills ... All i see are dps skills and crowd control aside from rhinos iron skin and maybe shield polarize on team mates there are no actual defensive skills
Edited by XfynxX
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I have been playing Ash since the beginning and here is what think.

 

1). Shuriken is fine considering I am doing 1000dmg to two enemy's for 25 energy that is a fair trade.

 

2). Smoke Screen is not meant to be a support ability so it should not affect everyone. It is meant to be a quick stealth

to avoid a large group of enemy's. [aoe stealth will remove aggro from your team and put it all on one target like the cryopod or a unexpecting team member]

 

3).Teleport needs to lose that f*****g flip. It would be a lot better if it did not put me directly in front of who I am trying to kill because like in real if someone pops up in front of you, you will immediately punch them in the face.

 

4). Now to may favorite ability Blade Storm. It is fine the way it is, it does not need to do more damage, kill more targets and it does not need a new animation but it wouldn't hurt if it went a bit faster. 

#1 I don't use shuriken so i cant put my opinion on that.

 

#2 I agree especially since God forbid everyone is invisible except the the prisoner you just saved he's definitely dead.

 

#3 I agree as well cause that's exactly what happens when you teleport. They hit you with the buttstock of the weapon.

 

#4 Personally i think its fine the way it is. The reason being is during that invincibility it's enough time for your shields to restore properly. Not only that when the enemy sees you they turn their attention towards you while your in animation so you teammates can kill them easier.

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Uhhh... problem. Ash isn't boring, and he isn't selfish. Ash is amazing. Any and all of the changes you have suggested would vastly overpower him. If teleport gave a sneak attack, it would need to be significant damage to be worth it, which drives up the energy cost, which reduces its utility. If smokescreen affected everyone, the duration would have to be lessened, and bear in mind that Ash gets sneak attack damage while invisible. This makes smokescreen and its role on Ash (a way to approach and kill heavy units without being sighted, removing problem units for the team with minimal losses of health) much less effective. You can't add more targets to Shuriken without taking something away or making it OP, which takes away from Shuriken's role as a damage dealer to problem units, or an extra mode of damage when you need to kill something fast and your weapon needs reloading you don't have time for. Bladestorm is perfect as it is. It allows a temporarily invincible warframe to go out and kill reduce opposition at particularly tough intervals, especially since it returns him to his starting location.

You say Ash isn't a team player. I say you just aren't using him right. He fills his niche perfectly, and any changes to him will either make him OP or take him away from his role, which I happen to like.

 

Ash has no abilities that positively effect the party.  So, Ash is a selfish Warframe, not a coop Warframe.

 

Teleport as it is now teleports you right into the enemy's fist practically.  So, don't sing it's praises to me.  And, no, it would not need any energy increase because other powers that cost the same actually do damage and get you from point a to point b.  Teleport as it is now is worth no more than 5 energy.  For 25 energy, it needs to do a lot more.

 

You're the one trying to overpower Ash. The two statements I can agree with are "pressing 4 to win has nothing to do with Ash's role as a Stealth Warframe" and "Shuriken as glaive is a total waste because we have weapons for that."

What I can't understand is that if you understand and acknowledge Ash's Stealth focus, why are you trying to change him? Your suggestions do not fit Ash perfectly, you want to undermine his versatility dealing with problem units and applying some sideways pressure to the enemy. You want to make him another ability buffing support frame, which he is emphatically not.

You are totally missing the point. Warframe has solo, too. A frame needs staying power, and revolving every aspect of the game around team-mates you may not always have ruins it. You seem to think abilities based around buffing team-mates and stunning enemies for team-mates is fine for solo. It's really not. Ash is well balanced, fun, and not boring at all as he is.

 

 

I'm not overpowering anything.  I'm making something boring into something fun within the context of the game and the warframe.  I'm improving Ash to be both more cooperative and remain a stealth warframe. 

 

You don't want Ash changed because you want everything else nerfed down to it's level.  It's obvious that you are a nerfer.

 

I have not made any suggestions that reduce Ash's stealth capability at all.  If you had read my post, you would have seen exactly the sequence of events and the context which these changes would promote.  I described the combat stealth game play that Ash would be capable of if these changes were to happen.  None of my suggestions reduce Ash's solo ability at all.

 

 

And there it is. Problem number two: only defenses have waves, and you don't get the same reward for doing the same thing. Going longer gives you progressively harder enemies, which drop progressively richer resources. Even applying this to Survivals, you get progressively better and more rewards for going longer. Using this as a universal argument is simply terrible. This is where I direct you to a ridiculous picture and tell you your argument is invalid.

The difficulty of the game is an extremely valid reason to shoot an idea down. That's like saying a warframe with an ability that kills every enemy unit on the map for 25 energy shouldn't be shot down because even though it makes the game easier and removes all semblance of skill, "easy and hard are just numbers in this game."

Congratulations, my friend. You just broke the internets, and blew my mind.

 

Game play is the most important thing in a game.  Everything else is subservient.  Everything else can be changed to fit the game play.

 

Because adding an attack will extend the duration of Teleport. If it doesn't, the ability is entirely unfair, and if it doesn't there's obviously no graphic added for it so that reduces the cool factor significantly. Because teleport is only 25 energy, the damage added would have to be miniscule, or bump up the energy cost which reduces it's utility infinitely. And if the damage added is miniscule, you're better off getting in a swing or shot with your own weapon during that extra duration, thus reducing your DPS.

 

 

What?  You get a teleport then an attack animation when you teleport then attack now so there is no issue here.

 

Other 25 point damage abilities travel and do 500 damage to multiple targets:  Rhino Charge and Slash Dash.  Yet, you have a problem with teleport hitting one target out of a bazzilion.

 

You're just grasping for something to complain about.

 

Yes. Shuriken, a first ability for 25 energy, hitting 10 targets. Because fireball hits ten targets. Because shock does as much damage as Shuriken. Because both of them can get headshot damage, just like it. This is perfectly reasonable.

Might I add that in my experience, with the second projectile added at max level, it is possible to kill two units around 100 degrees apart? It's plenty powerful, and my second favorite ability in the game.

 

Other abilities are lame too.  That is no excuse to not improve any of them.  And, Slash Dash, Rhino's Charge ..........

 

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Let's see. Rhino can roar, which at max level boosts damage by 80%. Banshee has her sonar, which boosts damage to weakspots by 500%. Then there's Nova, who is the only one that actually does that 50% you mentioned. Strangely enough, I would qualify slowing them down, multiplying damage, and priming them for a chain reaction defense through offense. It's hard for them to hurt you when they've all died in a matter of seconds.

Then there's Banshee's sound quake. Staggers everything in quite a large radius while killing them. Also could be argued as your "not regular" defense through offense. And what about all the OTHER "press 4 to win" abilities?

 

 

In other words, other Warframes have party wide buffs that are even better than what I suggested for Ash and you are freaking out about my suggestions.  Oh, just stop your crazy talk.

Edited by ThePresident777
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Right so i'm gonna throw my belt in, <==avid ash player

 

Since ash is my main, i utterly refute all these ideas.  Ash is already really powerful as he is. 

Shuriken can do 650( maxed focus) to two targets true damage .   What that means is nothing reduces the damage dealt.  Added on top of that they can crit doing 1300 damage to any target, or light infested they do 3x damage.  and not to mention lastly that those 2 shurikens can and will hit one target if theres no one else around.  so 2600 damage isn't enough yet? for 25 power?( or if you've added streamline like me somewhere in the ballpark of 19 energy)

 

Smoke screen if they'd change it is just to add a blind to enemies for like 2 seconds reducing their aim by 75%.  I don't want to cloak my whole team, and like others have said, just to have the hostage/pod die.

Teleport remove the flip and/or make it so that it goes to a location instead of an enemy. but most of all remove the flip >.>

 

Bladestorm- No no and no.  the most unique move in the game? reduced to a simple buff.  no thanks.  Just speed up the animation, have it retarget and prioritize bigger enemies( ancients, heavies, and techs/Fusions) Probably the best skill in this game since 1 you do 2000+ maxed focus to each target, 2 you're invulnerable, and 3 you can target half way across the defense map.

 

 

In short your ideas are only to increase his output through his skills only in defense maps.  And god knows that's how i want to balance every frame based on how many enemies line up >.>. 

There's minor things that need fixing but aren't big enough to address.  Ash is fine as he is.

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additionally, the idea that ash has to be a party helper is absurd.  Not every frame has to have party utility.  Ash is a damage dealer pure and simple, he's the assassin. he's not a helper. 

 

Roles in other rpgs/games that don't add to party- DPS- DPS do damage and don't pull heat off of tanks or healers.  their role is defined as a dpser;  ash falls easily under this category.  The ash you describe is a support frame.  not only that you'll have the children yelling at you because you didn't smoke bomb them all. or that you aren't  buffing them with your ult. 

 

One more thing.  Because you don't think that he isn't fun does not and i repeat does not mean that the rest of the community does not think he is fun. 

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The move in its self does no damage how ever it enables you to tactically position your self to stab a few enemies putting in an auto attack will take out your choice of what and how you attack

 

LOLOLOLOL...........oh that is beyond rich, lol, tactically position, Teleport = Tactical Positioning, BWHAHAHAHAHA...........  Yeah, and it even comes with a complimentary elbow to Ash's face.  It's like a free dental program.  LOLLOLOL..........

 

You may think it isnt too much but it is only 60 degrees off the expected field of view in real life how does that work out when its a small projectile? since shuriken only throws 2 projectiles i would expect a maximum of 5 degrees per projectile with the degrees minimizing as it goes far from you since then a projectile could start out at affecting 2 feet to affecting 20 feet in game. That makes no sense. Also the shuriken already has a stagger and a puncture ability  for up to 2 times so its effective targets can be up to 6. you would have to remove the puncture ability or your change would make it 30 targets which would put it on par with an ultimate

 

Ultimates do 1000 and up, 360 degrees, with no target limit, much larger radius.  Shuriken does 500.  You're better off using your weapon than shuriken as it is right now.

 

rhinos roar, novas mprime 2 is still enough especially since they both give 50% prior to focus thats excluding the hidden damage increase from abbilities that stagger/slow down or create weak points

 

That's a pretty lame "reason" not to improve something.  Let's tell DE, "We already have Rhino and Nova so just stop it already with all these warframes."

 

most frames are dps (just press 4) how is your change making a difference again ? a quarter increase is still an increase .. you will have people out there who will start demanding there be a rhino nova and ash in their party at all times always doing their buffs just so they can have 125% extra damage prior focus. is that really needed ? no. The other part of your suggestion, adding puncture will still increase dps sure its not another 25% over all but its making up for the fact that the actual dps increase given is a quarter

 

 

So what?  It does not matter.  The game needs more difficulty levels anyway.  Those are just a bunch of numbers.  What matters is game play, sequences of events, action, lights, thunder, whispers, not blind allegiance to a bunch of numbers.

 

Honestly defense through offense not regular? I find what isnt regular is actual defensive skills ... All i see are dps skills and crowd control aside from rhinos iron skin and maybe shield polarize on team mates there are no actual defensive skills

 

 

You forgot Snow Globe, Smoke Screen, Invisibility, and all of Trinities abilities.  My suggestion for Smoke Screen would extend it's defensive capabilities to the party instead of Ash selfishly keeping it to himself.

Edited by ThePresident777
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-snip-

so would you prefer loki allow everyone to invis as well?

Commenting on shuriken : i don't think it pierces anymore but i could be wrong, secondly it crits doing 1k damage, and can hit one enemy for 2k damage. thirdly its cheap and spammable.  it can kill much quicker than it takes to line up your weapon.  adding however 10 more of them is nigh insanity.  I agree that teleport is dumb, but instead of an instant kill give it utility( movement) without the draw back of teleporting in someones face.  Either make it spawn behind w/o the flip or just teleport to a location.

 

Roar and M prime fit their respective frames' designs. Another buff and through ash nonetheless( might i also add that adding invis to party from ash is  a second buff and thus makes him the buff king accordingly) is not entirely necessary.  the ideas you have proposed also are just "numbers"

More shurikens, more cloaking, more killing, more buffing. so i don't think you're taking your own suggestions. 

 

as for ultimates doing 1k+ take poor ember. WoF is her only useful skill and it doesn't even do 1k per tick, does somewhere lower in the 300 range.  instead of saying "dynamically change ash so he works for me and only in my idea/world of fun," ( which is effectively what you are combating considering the amount of lashing coming back at you and your defensive stance of your ash idea) help buff her.  Ash is an assassin.  He helps the team by clearing out HVTs.  He isn't as stealth as loki, but loki doesn't have ash's damage abilities, so the idea that you've said in other threads that he's a weak loki is clearly asinine.  They are 2 different frames with 2 different roles.  He is not however the buffer that you want to make him out to be.

 

Also getting belittling others criticism of your idea is no way to better it, and rejecting any and all criticism is a good way to get people to flame you, and then ignore you.

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so would you prefer loki allow everyone to invis as well?

 

If by everyone you mean his own sentinel, then dear god yes.  And honestly, if the devs aren't going to reinstate the invulnerability during Ash and Loki's invisibility, then cloaking teammates for half the time of your own cloak would be kind of nice without being overpowered.  Being murdered as Loki or Ash because enemies are shooting at your teammates behind you is kind of infuriating. 

 

Also getting belittling others criticism of your idea is no way to better it, and rejecting any and all criticism is a good way to get people to flame you, and then ignore you.

 

I wish I could +1 this more than once.  Civility and reasonableness go quite a long way, both online and in real life. 

Edited by Ganpot
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yes loki needs to do it to his sentinel, especially since ash does it for his.  however the only invulnerability that ash has is the casting animation and only during a certain moment, and during bladestorm.  its not too bad to get out of the fire by slide slashing your way through mobs.  I understand that its bad getting shot by something aiming at something else, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles as unfortunate as it may be :(

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Ultimates do 1000 and up, 360 degrees, with no target limit, much larger radius.  Shuriken does 500.  You're better off using your weapon than shuriken as it is right now.

 

 

 

LOLOLOLOL...........oh that is beyond rich

 

You are comparing an Ultimate to a 1ST ABILITY, that costs 25 ENERGY, to an ultimate, that is meant to be strong.

 

Edited by BoompigXD
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