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Removeing alerts was a terrible idea


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2 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

Except that alerts where everything but noob friendly since you needed to have that planet node unlocked in order to even see the alert on it. Try again.

I bet that noob sure wishes he could do 12 disruption missions that need most of the game completed to do. 

I bet he's in pain over not being able to get his hands on gilding kitguns or zaws, or being able to do an eidolon/orb mother yet. 

cause NW sure made things noob friendly huh? 

at least then you could taxi people. Alerts should have stayed even with NW around. NW is just riven challenges. zzz

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4 minutes ago, Vesiga said:

I bet that noob sure wishes he could do 12 disruption missions that need most of the game completed to do. 

I bet he's in pain over not being able to get his hands on gilding kitguns or zaws, or being able to do an eidolon/orb mother yet. 

cause NW sure made things noob friendly huh? 

at least then you could taxi people. Alerts should have stayed even with NW around. NW is just riven challenges. zzz

No but he can kill the 150 enemies, he can kill the 20 eximuses, he can bullet jump 100 times, he can complete 3 spies / rescues / captures, he can do 20 waves of defense, he can do 30 minutes of survival.

I'll be damned, looks like they can still do plently of challenges.

Sure he could get taxi'd before, only one problem, he wouldn't even see the damned alert pop-up if he didn't have the node so he would've never known about it in the first place. Guess what, he can still get taxied / carried through the 'hard' challenges and now he actually knows about them.

Edited by TheRealShade
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4 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

Ah, here we go again. Time for another axe.

*Grabs another axe from 'My Grievances Against Alerts' closet*

Lemme take a look at this one... ...well, this is an interesting one, because it's not technically my grievance - it's actually my dog's. Poor girl, had to go hungry for another 15 minutes because I had to rush to my PC in the morning to grab an Alert. Could still remember her yapping furiously as I rushed downstairs. Ah. Good times. These days, I even have time to make pasta and a cup of tea before I log on.

*Starts grinding the axe*

The only thing - and I mean the only thing - Alerts got right was its instant reward loop. Everything else was horrible RNG snooze-and-lose nonsense which deserved to die in a fire. You want those Alerts-like missions back? That's fine. Ask DE to incorporate them into Nightwave as Weeklies and Elites or something. I'd wholeheartedly support that - just leave the rest of it out.

I have to say you took the words right out of my mouth lol 🙂

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6 hours ago, trst said:

When your progression gets slowed down by lacking Catalysts, Reactors, specific auras,

Just like NW slows it down to this day with its excessive time gating on progress within itself: like 6 weeks long shop rotations, artificial limit on available creds or unnecessary long gaps between cred nodes. Just take a look at prices for certain auras or Nightmare mods, they doubled, some even trippled. Regardless how bad resource alerts were, today there is no way to get Neural Sensors till Jupiter or Argon till Europa, both are rather important for building Frames and weapons.

5 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Except that the alert system required you to have access to all the planets and nodes in order to do them, which isn't noob friendly. 

And a player who just arrived on Mars will finish NW? Not to forget noob friendly acts like "kill Profit Taker". I would say this guy is screwed even more because he cannot advance in NW far enough.

 

Those are all nice personal stories, which suit those personal experiences.

 

Edited by ShortCat
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Nightwave is a quicker way of stretching out content and forcing play while they can then pull the NW team to then make the bigger content faster. It's for this reason I don't think NW is going away. DE has shown they'll adapt it to cater to many players but I doubt no matter how much people complain that, for player attention investment, they'll stop this until at least next year.

I'm not criticizing this too much, it's just stating the logic behind it. Unfortunately many don't like it. I begrudgingly do it just as I do bounties on PoE. NW has filled my nitain stock but for many even 150 credits won't buy more than 4 cosmetic helmets or a useless frame.

Much of the tasks would be unattainable to new players for their first few days or weeks if they took as long as I did. For this I can see where it'd be a turn off to the game. However needing 3 nitain and knowing that's likely at least 2 days if you're lucky would be more of one when you have to wait 12-72 hours to finish a build for literally anything other than that Mk1 equipment.

Lastly though, old alerts were terrible. Took me 6 months to get the neuroptics for Vauban. In that time 2 dropped while I couldn't play. While NW is bad, alerts have too many problems to keep. With no means of picking reward you were at the mercy of odds stacked against you. Heavily.

Edited by (XB1)Almighty Deity
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The old alert system never gave anything remotely rewarding (aside from the few times you managed to catch a nitain alert or a cosmetic helm for the newest released frame). Nightwave might be a bit grindy but its 100x more rewarding, you dont have to sit and camp every 6 hours for nitain, you get new stuff, mods and kuva instead of the same old pangoline sword showing up. Sure NW isnt perfect by any means but i dont understand why people want the old system back when it never awarded anything remotely good or interesting. 

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7 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

The only thing - and I mean the only thing - Alerts got right was its instant reward loop. Everything else was horrible RNG snooze-and-lose nonsense which deserved to die in a fire. You want those Alerts-like missions back? That's fine. Ask DE to incorporate them into Nightwave as Weeklies and Elites or something. I'd wholeheartedly support that - just leave the rest of it out.

This might work. I'd also love to see more of those semi-tactical alerts similar to the wolf hunt more regularly. Like for example, a 'wolfpack base' alert where it's similar to the approach phase of the wolf hunt - an exterminate mission where you're locked into the rooms and need to clear out, say, five or six rooms worth of fugitives, maybe with a chance of the Wolf spawning in at some point, albeit not guaranteed? These show up every now and then, with some special rewards (maybe some of the wolf cred rewards, like the new desert-camo blueprints or a Nitain pack?), rarer than normal alerts, possibly of a similar kind of frequency to ghouls just to show that these guys are still kicking around the system. Maybe even add 'Wolfpack Amalgam Moas' to the mix too?

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2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Just like NW slows it down to this day with its excessive time gating on progress within itself: like 6 weeks long shop rotations, artificial limit on available creds or unnecessary long gaps between cred nodes. Just take a look at prices for certain auras or Nightmare mods, they doubled, some even trippled. Regardless how bad resource alerts were, today there is no way to get Neural Sensors till Jupiter or Argon till Europa, both are rather important for building Frames and weapons.

And a player who just arrived on Mars will finish NW? Not to forget noob friendly acts like "kill Profit Taker". I would say this guy is screwed even more because he cannot advance in NW far enough.

 

Those are all nice personal stories, which suit those personal experiences.

 

Except with alerts it was entirely random outside of Gifts of the Lotus (which we still have). Missed that Catalyst you really needed? Well too bad the next drop can be anywhere from tomorrow to next month and may even drop while you're asleep.

Now instead of your progress being gated by an invisible random timer you now have a 10+ week window for you to work on acts and get what you need. Which is also 10+ rotations to grab the shop items you need/want and the key items (Catalysts, Reactors, and Nitain) are always on offer anyways.

It's also not required to complete every single act as the 60%~ completion is still enough to reach rank 30 within 10 weeks. And with the catch-up mechanic now players who're unable to access the content required for certain acts have the full Nightwave to work towards said areas as opposed to alerts which required a taxi or you got nothing.

 

And sure your progress is still slowed by waiting for acts to reset but at least all of the delays are fully transparent instead of entirely random.

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Nah the new system is 10x better and I'm a warframe vet who has been playing since it's arrival on ps4 in 2014..

People please stop asking DE to bring back alerts because #1 the old system sucked &

#2 it's not coming back nightwave is the future learn to adjust and accept it as is. 

Those who want alerts back are just lazy & don't want to put in the work in nightwave.. sorry fellas but those days are so over... 

DE don't listen to those who want Alerts back as nightwave is the best thing that has happened those whining about alerts are the people who are unwilling to adapt...

So please ignore all those who want Alerts back cuz we don't need them back... nightwave gives better rewards & let's you have access to old alert rewards right away vs waiting months to get them all..

 

Keep up the good work 

 

Oh n 1 last thing please update us on when the Sanctuary Onslaught Drop Tables update is coming out.  As Rebbecca did say in a post which i can't seem to find now that it coming but it was delayed as more tweaking needed done. Please get this out asap..

Other then that loved the reveals at tennocon warframe future is very bright & I can't wait to see what's in store for us all...... 

Edited by (PS4)ChiefsKingdom54
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4 hours ago, Birkenhoff said:

I'm looking forward to the day when all the guys who start threads like "Make Alerts Great Again" quit the game about this. So there'll be noone left to complain about Nightwave and new players won't know about alerts. 

 

likely never gonna happen. there are still people hung up on the Old Void, which was taken out years ago now.

Nightwave is getting better, but more improvements could be made. I still don't see why each challenge couldn't give a set amount of credits, so that anyone who takes part will be able to afford something eventually. and for the love of god put some Kuva in the shop as well as the rewards. something like 50 creds for 5000 Kuva. Kuva is the one resource that vets who have everything else will still jump for, and DE are still being far too stingy with it.

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Alerts were not perfect, but they were better than Nightwave for their stated design goals and reasons for implementation. (of course, if these design goals or reasons they gave us for this change were not true, and they had other goals not stated, this may be exactly what they wanted...)

Pro's of Alerts:

  • Added life to the star chart. Things were going on. (current star chart, aside from invasions, is dead to those who cannot create personal goals or reasons to run missions)
  • People could jump into quickly populated random PUG missions.
  • Quick rewards: Do mission, get stuff.
  • Gave access to bundles of uncommon resources like Orokin Cells, Control Modules, Oxium, Tellurium, Kavat DNA codes, etc (Even the credits were worth it for me as a newbie.)
  • Rewards cycled around often enough that you could skip mission types you didn't like, if you didn't like the mission (I hated Interceptions, so I even skipped Nitain on interception alerts, knowing full well that I'd have plenty of other chances to get that later.)
  • Compared to Nightwave, super newbie friendly. (may have required a taxi here and there, but there were so many alerts, that missing later planet alerts was no biggie.)
  • Could jump into Warframe at any time, and leave at any time, and not worry that you were missing out of Alert rewards, because they'd just cycle in again constantly. They were never a "concern", they were "something happening" that you could choose to engage in or not, and rarely miss out on anything super important (the reactors/catalysts being the main ones).

Yet, alerts had problems.
I've posted how I'd fix the problems with Alerts here: (Much easier than using Nightwave to replace alerts)
 

Spoiler

 

Added link to spoiler because why is there this huge OP's forum icon?

So that's my little plan, anyway.

 

 

Nightwave's problems are a magnitude, or several, greater than Alerts ever were, because of the Event-style standing ladder with "unique" rewards, the time-limited nature of the event and the method by which you obtain the standing, as well as the expiration of the currency of the event.

It is not something you can just "ignore" or choose to do at your pleasure, or skip because you don't like the missions provided, like alerts were. If you don't complete the acts each week, you miss out on standing that you need for the event. The catch-up mechanic is seriously flawed due to the "must complete all" before other missed acts become available, allowing one un-completeable mission to blockade you from all acts prior to that one, until it's been completed.

Nightwave forces long term engagement with the event (because you can't cram all your progress into the days you can play, and then not worry about it any more, due to the weekly aspect of the acts -- whereas other events have their rewards all available from the start, and you can knock it out with focused play.) This may have been intentional, to force people to engage with the game more often on a weekly basis, but it's a major negative, in my book, and encourages burn-out and feeling forced to play... not something I'd be going for.

Nightwave has nice event-style ladder rewards... but it's event-style... not a sustainable 24/7 alert replacement system. Those rewards are geared more toward vets than newbies, and it seems acts are designed to mix vets and newbies as well, leading to both vets and newbies feeling that their situations in the game are being ignored or watered down, or convoluted by the presence of the other. Because you have to do most of the acts, and the acts seem to be RNG created, a balanced mix that always allows everyone to complete the required number of acts for the standing they'll need, will only randomly be available, leading to obvious dissatisfaction with the system - either being too easy, or too hard, more often than "just right".

 

Nightwave and the Cred Shop need to be separated.

Creds need to never expire. The Cred shop needs to remain open at all times, even between Nightwaves.

Creds need a new source (detailed in my linked post). This would allow them to fulfill the stated design goal of allowing people with busy schedules to make progress at their own pace as a long term goal to obtain things that were previously only available in short inconvenient Alert windows. (mostly Vauban, catalysts, reactors, auras)

Alerts need to exist alongside Nightwave.

Nightwave, treated like an event, would be much better received.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
Put part in the spoiler, because huge forum icon thingy.
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8 hours ago, (PS4)SavageWisdom- said:

A far more interesting point, at least from my perspective, is that it keeps players involved in the community.

Yeah that's nonsense. A few months in and you would already have gotten the vast majority of the stuff you would have wanted. You would have done what the vast majority of us seem to have done and just skipped the vast majority of alerts, and by that I mean "the vast majority of the minority that were actually active while we were playing, because most people have other demands on their time". 

With nightwave, we can find ways to make the challenges suit us. We can do them when we want, with the vast majority being in nodes of our choosing, making it as challenging or as easy as we like, and permitting us to do things that we would already have been doing, or that we need to do, for our own reasons.

Then, we can choose what rewards we want from the creds store, with potatos being particularly abundant, which was NEVER the case in the regular alerts. 

 

So, TL:DR, "No. You're wrong."

 

 

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3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Just like NW slows it down to this day with its excessive time gating on progress within itself: like 6 weeks long shop rotations, artificial limit on available creds or unnecessary long gaps between cred nodes. Just take a look at prices for certain auras or Nightmare mods, they doubled, some even trippled. Regardless how bad resource alerts were, today there is no way to get Neural Sensors till Jupiter or Argon till Europa, both are rather important for building Frames and weapons.

And a player who just arrived on Mars will finish NW? Not to forget noob friendly acts like "kill Profit Taker". I would say this guy is screwed even more because he cannot advance in NW far enough.

 

Those are all nice personal stories, which suit those personal experiences.

 

You are saying Neural Sensors are important for new players to build warframes and this resource is first reliably available on Jupiter (We'll exclude Cetus Bounties). This is true, but I'm assuming you weren't aware that the majority of Warframes that need Neural Sensors can't be acquired until after Jupiter anyway. Chroma, Ember, Equinox, Harrow, Limbo, Loki, Mesa, Nekros, Nezha, Nidus, Nyx, Octavia, Saryn, Trinity, and Valkyr are all conveniently available after Jupiter! Only Frost, Mag, Excalibur, and Zephyr are able to be built before Jupiter. It is almost like DE thought about this in advance and planned accordingly! The same applies to Argon crystals. I just thought I'd make you aware of it because you seemed pretty stressed out for new players, but it turns out it is a complete non-issue for them 🙂

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vor 39 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

Nightwave is getting better, but more improvements could be made. I still don't see why each challenge couldn't give a set amount of credits, so that anyone who takes part will be able to afford something eventually. and for the love of god put some Kuva in the shop as well as the rewards. something like 50 creds for 5000 Kuva. Kuva is the one resource that vets who have everything else will still jump for, and DE are still being far too stingy with it.

I think it was also discussed numerous times. It could have happend to take weeks to get the Nitain to research and build your Wukong when alerts were active. Everyone was ok with it. It was luck and constant monitoring to get Nitain. 

Now it's like: Nightwave is kinda ok-ish but: I want moa credits to buy moa stuff and I want moa of everything in generel. PS: Kuva, some Potatos, Tomatos and maybe 100 plat the week would be a nice reward, too. No, I demand it! Because it's what makes this game better and the sun shine brighter. WTF DE PLS can't you see? 🙂

 

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5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I fully disagree. The old Alerts system was pointless. I stopped doing Alerts, outside Gift of the Lotus. They haven't been useful for me... for YEARS.

Contrarywise, I actually am doing Nightwave every week.

Same here. Do people really want alerts back? Like "Do a ten minute defence mission and get the stunning reward of 8500 credits" alerts? What is wrong with you guys?

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11 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Alerts should have never been removed. Only reworked to work alongside NW. No different than Kuva survival working alongside Kuva floods and siphons. 

But whatever, DE will just constantly  struggle between NW seasons with 3-4 week gaps of lifeless non activity till they figure it out. 

tenor.gif

This.  The biggest fundamental flaw in consumer-friendly terms that I see, is that DE’s decisions are subtely removing choice...I can only assume this is a business model strategy to incentivize buying your way past the gameplay now required.

It may be the necessary sacrifice to stay profitable...restricting choice.  So I can understand it.

”Choice” was always Warframe’s Strength.

There is more to specifically do.  That doesn’t mean I, or others in the community, want to do it.

It’s essentially Bloat at that point:  content that is unwanted but required to obtain desired “loot” in the  “looter-shooter” equation.

It’s subtle but there.  Example?

Look at PoE Eidelons vs Fortuna Profit Taker.  They are the same, right?  No...

I can take basic weapons and use standard combat vs Eidelons.

Profit Taker requires Gravimagged AW weapons before you can even touch her, and even then this boss uses slot-machine mechanics to invalidate all but one damage type, all while Aggro-spam litters the map.

Suddenly it feels like a very different game.

I will forever advocate choice, because it’s always been Warframe’s strength.

 

 

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When they got rid of the void keys and switched to the relic system I hated it.  The alerts?  I used to watch those nitain alerts like a hawk for Vauban Prime, and when I accidentally but in purpose built the Inaros cosmetic I watched for those alerts like a hawk again.  Nightwave... the challenges are fair, the pacing is better, and Nitain is (more) bountiful.  We generally are resistant to change and I think that some who preferred the alerts will come around and eventually dig or appreciate NW.

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You are preaching to the choir.

I used to play Warframe on a daily basis also mostly because of the quick alert system - then it was replaced by the no fun to play grindy Nightwave system - without asking the gaming community for feedback before launching it in the first place - it's Anthem levels of bad.

It forces its gaming community to play stuff they don't enjoy playing - again and again and again and again - it's the quickest and most stupid way to utter failure, because sooner or later every player are going to ignore the stupid Nightwave Acts, because they suck compared to the quick alert system, that was successful for 6 years, plus the Nightwave system has less rewards.

I quit playing Warframe entirely after the quick alert system was replaced by the God awful Nightwave system - and I am not alone - more and more players will come to the same conclusion, when they realize that Nightwave is no fun to play and that there is no other reasons to login and play anymore.

DE needs to pull their fingers out and focus on making the here and now fun to play right now - don't put all your development effort/resources into big things coming next year maybe - focus on making your game fun to play once again as in right now - otherwise there will be no members left in your gaming community next year - just like Anthem.

 

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21 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

You are preaching to the choir.

I used to play Warframe on a daily basis also mostly because of the quick alert system - then it was replaced by the no fun to play grindy Nightwave system - without asking the gaming community for feedback before launching it in the first place - it's Anthem levels of bad.

It forces its gaming community to play stuff they don't enjoy playing - again and again and again and again - it's the quickest and most stupid way to utter failure, because sooner or later every player are going to ignore the stupid Nightwave Acts, because they suck compared to the quick alert system, that was successful for 6 years, plus the Nightwave system has less rewards.

I quit playing Warframe entirely after the quick alert system was replaced by the God awful Nightwave system - and I am not alone - more and more players will come to the same conclusion, when they realize that Nightwave is no fun to play and that there is no other reasons to login and play anymore.

DE needs to pull their fingers out and focus on making the here and now fun to play right now - don't put all your development effort/resources into big things coming next year maybe - focus on making your game fun to play once again as in right now - otherwise there will be no members left in your gaming community next year - just like Anthem.

 

Well, silly me. I'm having more fun than ever since the well-deserved decapitation of the RNG snooze-and-lose nonsense. So much for that "choir."

"Pull the fingers out." Ah, sweetest of sweet irony.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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I disagree.  The "variety" you get with alerts still exists with night wave.  The earnables are far more structured with night wave and you're much less likely to miss out on something because of the way NW is structured.  Literally the only thing we're missing from NW is the random resources.  And sure, if you want to bring that back for people along side NW that's fine.

But there isn't anything else about the old alert system that the NW doesn't do better.  People just feel "pressured" because it's a consistent chore list for people.  Which they don't need to accomplish at all and if you miss something because you didn't do a lot of NW it's actually no different then missing out on something because you couldn't sign in to do that alert at the time.

Frankly this and end game complaints just leads me to believe that people want DE to tell them what to do and when and be able to accomplish it easily and freely.  Minimum effort for maximum gains in a game that already encourages that with proper build/loadout usage.

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42 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

You are preaching to the choir.

I used to play Warframe on a daily basis also mostly because of the quick alert system - then it was replaced by the no fun to play grindy Nightwave system - without asking the gaming community for feedback before launching it in the first place - it's Anthem levels of bad.

It forces its gaming community to play stuff they don't enjoy playing - again and again and again and again - it's the quickest and most stupid way to utter failure, because sooner or later every player are going to ignore the stupid Nightwave Acts, because they suck compared to the quick alert system, that was successful for 6 years, plus the Nightwave system has less rewards.

I quit playing Warframe entirely after the quick alert system was replaced by the God awful Nightwave system - and I am not alone - more and more players will come to the same conclusion, when they realize that Nightwave is no fun to play and that there is no other reasons to login and play anymore.

DE needs to pull their fingers out and focus on making the here and now fun to play right now - don't put all your development effort/resources into big things coming next year maybe - focus on making your game fun to play once again as in right now - otherwise there will be no members left in your gaming community next year - just like Anthem.

 

Grindy?  Probably the grindiest nightwave challenge this week is do 10 syndicate missions, that's too many missions for 4K standing.  Other then that every other challenge can be completed in a few hours tops.  Oh and when you first rank up and get 150 nightwave creds you can buy literally 50 nitain extract with that many creds.  All for 10K standing.  If you want to tell me 50 nitain alerts is less grindy then getting 10K standing in NW go ahead, no one will listen to you.  

Stuff they don't enjoy playing?  Sorry, try again.  All NW does is require you to play warframe.  Sure it may specify some mission types, but most challenges can be completed anywhere on the starchart.  

Not noob friendly?  Neither were old alerts, once upon a time I missed many alerts because I didn't have the node unlocked for said alert that had nitain, potatoes, or what have you.  

Most alerts were garbage too.  Give you creds + 80 endo?  I'll pass, can literally get 80 endo by playing missions and picking up mods/endo balls.  They also shove endo down our throats at this point, it's why maxed primed mods go for so little now in comparison to years ago when they commanded 500p+ price tags.  

Edited by (XB1)COA Altair
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