ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Taking a break doesn't fix the issues players bring up. For example, it doesn't fix over simplified AI. It doesn't fix armor scaling, content drought, or host disconnecting and lost rewards. It doesn't fix weapon status effects, kubrows that trace back into the air and dying in an instant. It doesn't fix a cyst you can't have go away, or grinding an amp like mad on a largely uninteresting path of operator gameplay. Why do I bring this up? Because I've 'taken the break' several times, yes it worked for awhile, but then eventually I found myself 'taking the break' longer and longer, till eventually really taking a break for months and reinstalling only to instantly uninstall again because of lack of development around maintenance and enhancement of existing issues or treating future development with 'lessons learned' to really display significant evolution. The point though is this, people will say every game has a life cycle, eventually your interest ends. But really, the cop out to real problems with this game that could be improved with a different take on development enhancements would have kept me here and many others otherwise and I feel the ' consider taking a break' borrowed line has been to the detriment of really improving conversations around Warframe. Own thoughts? **EDIT** For some reason many people are addressing the examples in this post of "issues players bring up", which wasn't really the topic or drive to this post which is more as follows:People have become a bit overprotective of Warframe and DE in general and that does more bad than good in the long run. 1) Suggesting to take a break with feedback where it does not apply is not helpful, nor adds constructive conversation in improving Warframe. 2) If you don't believe someone's feedback on why they quit playing the game is true or that 'taking a break' didn't alleviate their issues— it doesn't mean it's always illegitimate feedback and open to ad hominem attacks, ridicule, degradation, or any other form of non constructive responses. 3) Dismissing feedback different than what you may agree with, or resistance to change potentially creates a vacuum of security in development that does not lead to significant improvements to the game itself or long term health. **/END EDIT** Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEjAvU5566 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Who the hell suggest to take a break when facing armor scaling problem?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Because people would rather flee problems than face them. Just like other bullS#&$ answers like "just play solo" or "don't like it don't play it". 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 il y a 2 minutes, dEjAvU5566 a dit : Who the hell suggest to take a break when facing armor scaling problem?! You haven't been in the forums long have you? That happens constantly lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Taking a brake is not a solution for anyone. I don't know what gave you the idea. Taking a brake is a solution for burnout. (At least for most ppl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Well, do you have any idea to fix them? Many complain about things but rarely bring any idea to fix Also, the AI isn't oversimplified if you observe them. They run to cover, peek and throw grenades, group up behind shield unit or do you consider enemies that actively spread out, time their attack, quickly hide back into cover if you shoot them and face you with a coordinated grenade throws to confuse you as normal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, JackHargreav said: Taking a brake is not a solution for anyone. I don't know what gave you the idea. Taking a brake is a solution for burnout. (At least for most ppl) You should direct this comment to those who apply the misnomer, not me. To think it's only used for burnout in forum responses is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--DSP--Jetstream Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: eventually your interest ends when this happen, no matter what fixes or content the dev add will bring you back. Just like how none of my friends ever play this game anymore. When it ends it ends, maybe this is why most game like this focuses on getting a steady stream of new players instead of retaining the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDweller Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) People have become a bit overprotective of Warframe and DE in general and that does more bad than good in the long way.Breaks don't do anything indeed, i just came over from a 9 month break and things are worse in general.I could analyze the whole problem but that will be a thread for feedback. So in a few words the main problems are that even if Warframe is the best f2p right now, it's huge potential is being wasted in every aspect(story, gameplay, world) and that DE focuses on the casual people who bring the money in each update instead of their regural playerbase.It brings money?sure but in the long run it will be Warframe's own doom cause a game can't be sustained on life support forever. Edited July 12, 2019 by DeathDweller 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: Taking a break doesn't fix the issues players bring up. For example, it doesn't fix over simplified AI. Warframe is a horde shooter. we get rushed by more and more enemies until the game gets too hard and we have to leave the mission. Imo you don't need that advanced of an AI for that Quote It doesn't fix armor scaling, I never understood how armor scaling is a problem you play, enemy armor increases until you can't deal with them anymore and you leave the mission, rinse and repeat Quote content drought, well actually this can be solved by taking a break. just come back again when there is something to do Quote or host disconnecting and lost rewards. I don't know if there is a Vod available but DE Glen talked about host mogration on his private stream. basically: The code has been tweaked and improved so much over the years that host migration only fails if YOUR internet sucks. and given that my last failed host migration was like 2 years ago I tend to believe that Quote It doesn't fix weapon status effects, explain. What is wrong with status effects? Quote kubrows that trace back into the air and dying in an instant. uhm.. what? explain please. no idea what you are talking about Quote It doesn't fix a cyst you can't have go away, cyst is curable. sit on the chair once it is max size (after 1 week) Quote or grinding an amp like mad on a largely uninteresting path of operator gameplay. to each their own. some people like the Operator some don't but your opinion is not representative of everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, 844448 said: Well, do you have any idea to fix them? Many complain about things but rarely bring any idea to fix Also, the AI isn't oversimplified if you observe them. They run to cover, peek and throw grenades, group up behind shield unit or do you consider enemies that actively spread out, time their attack, quickly hide back into cover if you shoot them and face you with a coordinated grenade throws to confuse you as normal? These are outstanding issues (meaning they've been present for quite awhile). I'm not necessarily bought into all of them but they are some of the most dominate conversations over years of forum posts. Plus it's not up to a product owner to resolve things it's up to development to come up with a user story and prioritize it in their backlog. I think its more fair and accurate more than anything to say theses issues aren't a priority to development. I'd be super impressed to see anyone reprogram the game AI; however, to your point I have seen plenty of forum posts making good suggestions to improve AI. This post was aimed to be about responses to 'good feedback', not about the examples I provided. I could mostly care less about talking about subjects that have run amassed in forum topics over and over. Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just now, ikkabotz said: You forgot to mention the part about their pathing, which falls in direct lines walking right past the player often, and the lack of any ability to break CC. Theirs plenty of solutions available in forum posts as is. These are upstanding issues, plus it's not up to a product owner to resolve things it's up to development to come up with a user story and prioritize it in their backlog. I think its more fair to say theses issues arent a priority to development. Oh, ability to break CC? Take a look at demolyst where they can break CC and people are melting, asking for nerf because it's "unfair" About pathing, not sure about you but in my region the enemies never walk past you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadalaboth Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 30 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: Taking a break doesn't fix the issues players bring up. Wouldn't that just "refresh" the problems anyway? You forget about the problems and then start playing again and just go "oh yeah. I forgot that's a thing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k05h Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) vor 37 Minuten schrieb ikkabotz: Taking a break doesn't fix the issues players bring up. You are right. From veteran to veteran: DE will not fix broken stuff once it is broken more than a few months. It is not their way of working to fix stuff. They pour shiny new stuff on top of problems. That is Warframe's solution for everything. Sometimes things get bandaids like rivens for forgotten guns, nightwave for rng alert resources or gravimag for unused archguns. But solutions to underlying problems will not happen as long as DE runs Warframe. Short, they will never fix old stuff. And player number show they are right doing so. Not that I like it that way but what can a tiny tenno like me even do to change this? Edited July 12, 2019 by k05h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, DeathDweller said: People have become a bit overprotective of Warframe and DE in general and that does more bad than good in the long way. This is exactly all I'm trying to say. Folks being attacked ad hominem for giving feedback, in a feedback forum suggesting good improvements to gameplay experience just puts a black eye on things. Don't get me wrong there's bad suggestions too, but yeah this reply of yours basically sums it up. Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, 844448 said: Oh, ability to break CC? Take a look at demolyst where they can break CC and people are melting, asking for nerf because it's "unfair" About pathing, not sure about you but in my region the enemies never walk past you The overabundance of CC is an issue. You may be right the mass appeal may suffer pushback, but I find CC and nuking suffering an extreme repetitiveness over time and I do believe enemy encounters could use fixing (like right now, there's boss invulnerability windows to buffer survivability so they don't instantly melt and the lack of any raw damage they do and it's brainless combat) Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, k05h said: You are right. From veteran to veteran: DE will not fix broken stuff once it is broken more than a few months. It is not their way of working to fix stuff. They pour shiny new stuff on top of problems. That is Warframe's solution for everything. Sometimes things get bandaids like rivens for forgotten guns, nightwave for rng alert resources or gravimag for unused archguns. Short, they will never fix old stuff. And players number show they are right doing so. Not that I like it that way but what can a tiny tenno like me even do to change this? I agree entirely, it is what it is. Hope for the best moving forward and with lessons learned, just feel like the path of development has been on a downward slope since around after Second Dream. Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Yes, Warframe is not ideal. But real solutions is leaving constructive feedback in the feedback forums. GD is for... well talking about the game, but some test ideas and some just rant. And farm upvotes. Anyway, DE wants your feedback. Have you seen art designer at Tennocon listening to a fan critique and asking: “What do you want?” It is also important to remember that, as another DE put it, solving a problem is not as easy as making a half-hour video of pointing out said problem (and riding controversy wave in some cases). Oh, and then DE act on feedback people give (for example, token system and alerts being random), someone else will trash it. And yes, there is such thing as burn out. Leave feedback, not a rant, feedback, offer a solution if you can and take a break! By the Void, I hate riding a white horse... Edited July 12, 2019 by rand0mname 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, rand0mname said: Yes, Warframe is not ideal. But real solutions is leaving constructive feedback in the feedback forums. DE wants your feedback. Have you seen art designer listening to a fan critique and asking: “What do you want?” It is also important to remember that as another DE put it, solving a problem is not as easy as making a half-hour video of pointing out said problem (and riding controversy wave in some cases). Oh, and then DE act on feedback people give (token system and alerts being random), someone else will trash it. And yes, there is such thing as burn out. Leave feedback, not a rant, feedback, offer a solution if you can and take a break! By the Void, I hate riding a white horse... Hence this is an off topic post, moreso feedback to community reaction to what good feedback there is getting steamrolled before it takes any flight at all. It's killed before it can even get off the ground. Hell, they even did it to DE when Weapon 3.0 or 2.8 or whatever it was rolled out and DE ended up retracting it almost immediately before it was even really given a chance. Edited July 12, 2019 by ikkabotz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridian Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: Typical forum 'dig' scrambling for the quickest patronizing comment to OP looking for easy upvotes. I could go on about that one too. Just another Warframe apologist route lol. But remember, Warframe has the nicest community around kids and put on a happy face! A dumb topic warrants a dumb response. 34 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: it doesn't fix over simplified AI. The AI is not the issue, 1shoting the map is. It doesn't fix armor scaling Can you actually describe the armor scaling issue, because I'm pretty certain 75% just parrot it. content drought As opposed to all those PvE games that are a constant joy and you play to infinity? or host disconnecting Touché and lost rewards There are plenty of ways to get those back It doesn't fix weapon status effects You're repeating yourself on an issue here, guess which one. kubrows that trace back into the air and dying in an instant That's your problem, mine's immortal and does what I want it to do. It doesn't fix a cyst you can't have go away This game breaking issue can not stand any longer! or grinding an amp like mad on a largely uninteresting path of operator gameplay. Amps are easy to get and if you don't like the operator that's your problem. And all of those have been beaten to death. Overall you're not saying anything worth a damn, just another baiting rage post with no purpose. Can you tell me exactly how armor scaling is hindering your experience? Improving AI isn't going to bring anyone back and would barely make anyone stick around. Empyrean on the other hand? It's called prioritization of resources, something obviously unknown to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 3 минуты назад, ikkabotz сказал: Hence this is an off topic post, moreso feedback to community reaction to what good feedback there is getting steamrolled before it takes flight It’s in GD :). Edit: And what is good feedback? Take a look at Ivara Deluxe thread. How many posters were simply bashing official concept without pointing out why they think it is ugly? A good well thought idea may never be implemented because... well, for example there is simply only 24 hours in a day. Or it is too global and will take years of no updates. I guess that such white knighting comes from playing SWToR. Sorts gave me a different perspective on frequency of updates and patches and monetization policy. Edited July 12, 2019 by rand0mname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDweller Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just now, rand0mname said: But real solutions is leaving constructive feedback in the feedback forums. DE wants your feedback. Have you seen art designer listening to a fan critique and asking: “What do you want?” Sure but what about all those things that never get fixed?Last thing i remember was the new tenno suits after Fortuna.They broke them went an update back then broke it again and they remain broken to this day.I mean fixing a frame's butt has to be more important than your operator obv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, ikkabotz said: The overabundance of CC is an issue. You may be right the mass appeal may suffer pushback, but I find CC and nuking suffering an extreme repetitiveness over time and I do believe enemy encounters could use improvement (like boss invulnerability windows to buffer survivability so they don't instantly melt and the lack of any raw damage they do) We have invulnerability windows on bosses, considered as bad and cop out mechanics to make the fight longer so it's not a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, DeathDweller said: Sure but what about all those things that never get fixed?Last thing i remember was the new tenno suits after Fortuna.They broke them went an update back then broke it again and they remain broken to this day.I mean fixing a frame's butt has to be more important than your operator obv. Where's the broken part in the tenno suits? Mine is completely fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikkabotz Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ver1dian said: A dumb topic warrants a dumb response. And all of those have been beaten to death. Overall you're not saying anything worth a damn, just another baiting rage post with no purpose. Can you tell me exactly how armor scaling is hindering your experience? Improving AI isn't going to bring anyone back and would barely make anyone stick around. Empyrean on the other hand? It's called prioritization of resources, something obviously unknown to you. My giraffe is taller than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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