Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Loza03 said: As for what they were smoking? I don't know, but it was definitely not meant to be smoked. I'm not sure it even was meant to exist if that is what the output was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Aldain said: I'm not sure it even was meant to exist if that is what the output was... They summoned a lovecraftian monster and smoked it. I think the best part is that it madly fluctuates. You have some relatively normal stuff, some typical adaptational weirdness (mostly surrounding updating design changes), and some genuinely interesting stuff - there's a sci-fi story that involved time dilation and whatnot, where a character winds up trapped on an alien world which operates on a much faster timespan than they are, so the aliens basically percieve them as an inanimate object that never moves within their lifespan, but is never consistent in stories or history, leading them to worship the character as a divine artifact. Bizzare, yes, but more like how Warframe is an incredibly weird sci-fi product in places. And then there's... that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrkul Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Loza03 said: They summoned a lovecraftian monster and smoked it. "Joe Rogan intensifies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Man it is like clockwork, every single time a morality thread shows up it attracts people edgier than a box of scissors parroting the same "We're the real monsters" line, ignoring everything else about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Aldain said: Man it is like clockwork, every single time a morality thread shows up it attracts people edgier than a box of scissors parroting the same "We're the real monsters" line, ignoring everything else about the situation. Warframe is a pretty dark series, but we're definitely anti-heroes at worst. Of the 'wrong thing for the right reasons' variety, with occasional 'not as bad as the bad guys' sprinkled on top. Like, make no mistake, the Tenno have done awful things, but it's always done in the context of the world itself being so much worse. Exhibit A: destroying the Orokin*. This plunged the system into anarchy which caused numerous planets to lapse from a habitable state into an uninhabitable one, as well as several other consequences of a sudden societal collapse, likely brining an end to a large percentage of the population. Easily one of the Tenno's worst actions. However, the other options were to allow 100% of the population to be slaughtered (by actively siding with the Sentients), or to continue life under a totalitarian regime that was by every stretch of the imagination, utterly abusive and attempting to flee the system in wake of an impending environmental collapse that, ultimately, the millennia of Anarchy did at least partially avert (and that would have killed just as many people, mind you). There is no right choice in that situation. Nothing that the Tenno can do can truly be considered justified. So they take the option where they try to do the right thing. The Grineer, the Corpus - given the choice, they would not. That's the difference, really. *Whilst, yes, they were at least somewhat manipulated, it's clear from various other sources (Ash Leverian and Sands of Inaros being the most explicit) that the Tenno were already chafing under Orokin rule, and likely would have made an effort to rebel anyway, so it was more encouragement than anything else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Loza03 said: There is no right choice in that situation. Nothing that the Tenno can do can truly be considered justified. So they take the option where they try to do the right thing. The Grineer, the Corpus - given the choice, they would not. That's the difference, really. Exactly my thoughts. Maybe I just have a violent allergic reaction to the whole nihilistic "nothing is good in this world" schlock that has been in media for the past near decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Aldain said: Exactly my thoughts. Maybe I just have a violent allergic reaction to the whole nihilistic "nothing is good in this world" schlock that has been in media for the past near decade. Blame Watchmen, which, in fact, wasn't even that. It included small, human acts of kindness to serve as contrast for the im/amoral 'heroes' of the story, who thrash around in grimdark nihilism questioning the nature of morality whilst failing to notice the ultimate good that's right under their noses. That was, of course, far too subtle for comic writers, and from there, that influenced a lot of other media, leading to that very schlock to crop up in media, as that's coloured our perception of what a genuinely dark story is. It's why I've always preferred darker family-friendly media, because a lot of the time it's genuinely just better, because the characters are more human. Even when they aren't, but you get the picture. At the end of the day, if I feel more from a Horse having a depressive episode than grimdark Superman... well, yeah. Ironically, this very fact is likely to at least partial blame for the previous topic of conversation. Since the Comics industry proceeded to march blindly towards grimdark and the Sonic writers were both a part of said industry and also self-aggrandising, yet dubiously qualified hacks (or at least the head writer was), they inevitably followed suit and failed miserably because they had nowhere near enough talent to successfully pull off a trend which wasn't that great to start with. Alright, I'll stop. Edited August 17, 2020 by Loza03 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Loza03 said: That was, of course, far too subtle for comic writers, and from there, that influenced a lot of other media, leading to that very schlock to crop up in media, as that's coloured our perception of what a genuinely dark story is. It's why I've always preferred darker family-friendly media, because a lot of the time it's genuinely just better, because the characters are more human. Even when they aren't, but you get the picture. The supposed snippets about the live action Avatar: TLA from Netflix makes this ring so true it hurts. ...I really should watch the original cartoon at some point, might cheer me up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Aldain said: The supposed snippets about the live action Avatar: TLA from Netflix makes this ring so true it hurts. ...I really should watch the original cartoon at some point, might cheer me up a bit. I probably should as well. I've watched a lot of clips of it, but the show's a classic from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Loza03 said: I probably should as well. I've watched a lot of clips of it, but the show's a classic from what I've seen. This is oddly the most noteworthy clip/running gag I remember of the series despite having seen basically any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GigaZumbi001 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 why is this thread so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Aldain said: This is oddly the most noteworthy clip/running gag I remember of the series despite having seen basically any of it. My unusual means of consuming media has caused me to know that not only does this man somehow found the world's leading automobile company that his descendent would later lose due to political intrigue, but how a humble and immensely unfortunate Cabbage salesman would become a world-renown manufacturer of mechanical transportation in the first place, despite having never actually seen either show in which this takes place. I have Netflix, by the way, I just choose not to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, (XB1)GigaZumbi001 said: why is this thread so long We were cursed by the nameless song by the nameless artist on youtube but it failed so we're stuck here instead of on that youtube video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Whiplash inducing topic change, but I miss the old days of memes. Looking at the memes of today's youngsters just make me miss old Youtube Poops and Rage Comics. ...I've come to a realization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, Aldain said: Whiplash inducing topic change, but I miss the old days of memes. Looking at the memes of today's youngsters just make me miss old Youtube Poops and Rage Comics. ...I've come to a realization. I appreciate the bizzareness of those old memes, but my continued use of Forum weapons betrays that simple reaction images and those older days will never release their grasp on my heart. Also, changing it back, have you ever played Hollow Knight? EXCELLENT game for someone seeking grimdark subversion, without it reaching the opposite of cloyingly sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Loza03 said: Also, changing it back, have you ever played Hollow Knight? EXCELLENT game for someone seeking grimdark subversion, without it reaching the opposite of cloyingly sweet. Not my overall cup of tea, though I have watched a streamer I frequent play it through. I'm very hit or miss with 2d games these days, but I can't deny the effort and charm the devs poured into Hollow Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, Aldain said: Not my overall cup of tea, though I have watched a streamer I frequent play it through. I'm very hit or miss with 2d games these days, but I can't deny the effort and charm the devs poured into Hollow Knight. If I'm being honest, I didn't think it'd be my cup of tea either. I usually prefer more action-oriented games. Having said that, playing it myself definitely converted me. What about it do you think you might not like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Loza03 said: If I'm being honest, I didn't think it'd be my cup of tea either. I usually prefer more action-oriented games. Having said that, playing it myself definitely converted me. What about it do you think you might not like? Probably the bug motif, despite appearances I'm actually a bit squeamish about such things. My 2D preferences also lean more towards Mario Bros or Mega Man styles than Metroidvania, though I enjoy those from time to time. So yeah, Shovel Knight and Azure Striker Gunvolt grabbed me for example, I guess I prefer a more short and to-the-point experience in 2D games these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Aldain said: Probably the bug motif, despite appearances I'm actually a bit squeamish about such things. Ok, fair enough. I stopped playing it for months because I convinced myself I'd wind up fighting a spider at one point. And then I never did, and it was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrkul Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Aldain said: Maybe I just have a violent allergic reaction to the whole nihilistic "nothing is good in this world" schlock that has been in media for the past near decade. It began a bit before then. I started noticing the trend already in the early 90s, when White Wolf games gained traction, first with the hardcore PnP roleplayers, and then the more casual. Of course, "Woe is the World" has been around in media for a long time, but the popularization of the inevitable slide towards oblivion really took hold with the Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf the Apocalypse games. They may not have been the sole factor, but they sure did provide grease to the process. I always found those types of settings irritating, since they relied too much on contrivance and actor apathy. Funny enough, we see a lot of long running franchises getting run into the ground at the moment, building their narrative on, yes... contrivance and actor apathy. There are of course Grimdark settings that pull it off. Warhammer 40K should be viewed as a parodic dystopian setting. The Walkin Dead gave a take on human nature pushed to its limit. But a lot of attempts, and especially recent ones are either uninspiring, clumsy copies of more successful franchises, a bunch of messages and ideologies dressed up in something that looks like earlier bestsellers, or outright doomporn. Covid-19 is not the only reason the entertainment industry is in a bad spot right now. The big danger in relying so heavily on doom and misery as narrative tools is, that at some point the consumer gets crisis fatigue. At some point we stop caring about the characters, the world, and all the other things, that should have kept our interest in the product. And when multiple series of products bombard us with their "nihilistic schlock", the fatigue carries over. Personally, I feel that Warframe need some kind of world development, some kind of progress towards a better world for the refugees and the downtrodden. Right now we're left hanging, waiting for the new war and our revenge on "she who betrayed us". We are murdering for personal gain, gear, resources, money etc. I would find it more palatable, if I could see progress come from the bloodshed, a flourishing of Cetus, as its inhabitants have the peace and prosperity to grow spiritually, technologically and socially. The bounties do add a bit of narration to some missions, but we're still little more than paid hitmen/-women and space murderhobos. But, eh... Maybe I'm just overthinking things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I've realised why I'm not interested in the Helminth system any more - all the abilities picked are supremely non-interactive. Consider Nova - specifically Null Star and Wormhole. Null Star is a useful ability that can be one of the cores of her kit, but it's pretty boring. It's a buff - once cast it aims itself, it fires itself, it works by itself. It is, by all accounts, a dull but strong ability. Wormhole, by contrast, is also quite powerful, but if there's going to be a dump stat power, it's this one. It's not the core of any kit beyond memes. Powerful but boring and weak but fun. If I were a dev, I'd go with the second one for a Helminth-style system, because it runs fewer risks of balancing issues (and thus fewer headaches) and it gives one of the most fun abilities a new lease on life. If nothing else, I'd throw some powers like that in there, because for a system that revolves around messing about with cool ability combinations... isn't half the fun the wacky combinations people can come up with? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrkul Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Let me see what the future will bring... I see... a lot of warframes crying and roaring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angias Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 il y a 12 minutes, Yrkul a dit : Let me see what the future will bring... I see... a lot of warframes crying and roaring! I expect to see many air burst and loki decoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Yrkul said: The big danger in relying so heavily on doom and misery as narrative tools is, that at some point the consumer gets crisis fatigue. At some point we stop caring about the characters, the world, and all the other things, that should have kept our interest in the product. And when multiple series of products bombard us with their "nihilistic schlock", the fatigue carries over. The Eight Deadly Words that Darkness Induced Audience Apathy can cause. "I Don't Care What Happens To These People". I find this is also often caused not only by perpetual crisis fatigue, but also just having plain unlikable characters who are just as miserable as the setting. Especially if you're replacing the cast every 5 minutes to get those death shocks out. Can you tell I basically live on TVtropes in my downtime? Edited August 17, 2020 by Aldain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) On 2020-08-15 at 8:51 PM, angias said: No. The reward of the last poster is watch this thread die. Which is the worse kind of reward. Nein, Tenno. You have reached the endo this thread. Edited August 17, 2020 by (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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