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Mr.ElevenXI
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10 minutes ago, Aldain said:

You can tell its Wednesday when there is a request for open-world PvP calling people saying no to it carebears.

I need an Irish Coffee...emphasis on the Irish.

Open world pvp hide and seek would be hilarious. As long as the mines are not opens lol 

Oh wait open world prop hunt ! That would be way more hilarious with team of 8 LOL

Edited by trunks013
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24 minutes ago, Aldain said:

You can tell its Wednesday when there is a request for open-world PvP calling people saying no to it carebears.

I need to know what their main is, because there's no way a MR3 with 0 conclave stats would call people carebears for not wanting to PvP.

@Magus_Tahir When did you send me a friend request? 

Edited by DeMonkey
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6 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

And other MMOs with an emphasis on PvP.

IIRC BDO is one such thing.

The whole "You hit X level you are automatically opted into Open World PVP" thing is why I never bothered getting into BDO...well that and the insane monetization that makes Prime Access look cheap.

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1 minute ago, Yrkul said:

Ugh! Getting flashbacks to World of Warcraft. And other MMOs with an emphasis on PvP.

Why does that game mode tend to attract a certain type of people?

Ah! I actually know the reason for that.

 

There's a concept in game design psychology called 'Bartle's taxonomy'. It basically divides player or play enjoyment into four catagories, sometimes called 'Explorers', 'Achievers', 'Socialisers', and most relevantly 'Killers'.

In general, nobody fits exclusively into any one catagory, but for simplicity's sake, Explorers are defined by people searching for secrets, lore, or unusual builds and gameplay. You could refer to this as interacting with the world. Achievers, by contrast, seek out all the achievements, or the most efficient runs. In other words, acting on the world. Socialisers are... well, they're here primarily to use the game as a social platform. Interacting with others, basically. And, following that pattern, Killers seek out dominence over other players - typically this is what PvP attracts, although it also leads into cornering the market on particular resources.

Whilst PvP can attract all sorts (consider Team Fortress 2's friendly populations of Hoovies and Spycrabs), it appeals most to Killers. And, whilst all four can be toxic in their own right (... again, consider some sects of TF2's 'friendlies'), killers tend to be the most... visibly toxic, especially when they're losing since that is absolutely the opposite of fun.

 

Again, please do remember that most people don't fit nicely into one or the other, and indeed what they particularly want comes and goes with the tide, but individual game modes do tend to appeal towards one or the other. PvP, of course, attracts Killers, including the toxic ones.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

There's a concept in game design psychology called 'Bartle's taxonomy'. It basically divides player or play enjoyment into four catagories, sometimes called 'Explorers', 'Achievers', 'Socialisers', and most relevantly 'Killers'.

Because this is an interesting topic, here is a link for further casual readings for those interested.

Also the usual TVtropes link warning, however it has a list of similar philosophies that can jump start a googlefest for the bored.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayerArchetypes

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11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

IIRC BDO is one such thing.

The whole "You hit X level you are automatically opted into Open World PVP" thing is why I never bothered getting into BDO...well that and the insane monetization that makes Prime Access look cheap.

Montization isn’t as bad as you think. I went ftp a few weeks ago and if your smart you don’t notice the difference 

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Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Montization isn’t as bad as you think. I went ftp a few weeks ago and if your smart you don’t notice the difference 

Fair enough, I heard the initial monetization complaint from a couple of years back, so maybe there were some changes in the perception/functions over time.

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21 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Because this is an interesting topic, here is a link for further casual readings for those interested.

Also the usual TVtropes link warning, however it has a list of similar philosophies that can jump start a googlefest for the bored.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayerArchetypes

I remember talking about that with Reb and in fact they actually looked at the stats and in warframe we have that too.

Social gamers , Casuals who comes back to try new releases , Min maxers , completionists and a bunch more.

Edited by trunks013
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Just now, trunks013 said:

I remember talking about that with Reb and in fact they actually looked at the stats and in warframe we have that too.

Social gamers , Casuals who comes back to try new releases , Min maxers , completionists and a bunch more.

I'm likely in that casual bracket, mostly solo too.

I'm also one of the types who treats a game as a game first and foremost, other things are much reduced on my view (e.g. I am NOT a completionist, I still don't have the star chart clear even on Switch).

It is always interesting to read over those types of things and see where you fall under.

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25 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'm likely in that casual bracket, mostly solo too.

I'm also one of the types who treats a game as a game first and foremost, other things are much reduced on my view (e.g. I am NOT a completionist, I still don't have the star chart clear even on Switch).

It is always interesting to read over those types of things and see where you fall under.

Yeah last time i was like "Ha thats what i am !" surprisingly meeting a fellow tenno who litteraly brought drinks for everyones and i was like "that guys is a social gamer" LOL

Edited by trunks013
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53 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Fair enough, I heard the initial monetization complaint from a couple of years back, so maybe there were some changes in the perception/functions over time.

It’s a PvP game so yes being blatantly honest those who spend money do have an advantage but not as much as you think being how the economy is setup and most of the things realated to the game in the store are more cosmetic and life skilled based. It would take someone literally hundreds if not literal thousands for it to be pay to win for them. And even then. At higher levels such and proper gear. It amounts to skill over anything and knowledge of the class / matchup so even then if you’re a long time player or even just a well versed player it does not matter how much the next guy spent 

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12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

As a player who's no stranger to PvP, I'd like to think my toxicity is er... appropriately channelled. 

Any advice for a weird person when it comes to PvP games?

I often find myself stuck in this weird niche of "good enough to not be trash" but "not good enough to actually be good", this often leaves me in this no man's land of either stomping or getting stomped with virtually no in-between.

It doesn't matter if it is fighting games, shooters, or anything else, I just have always had this problem and it just leaves me frustrated rather than satisfied or even feeling like a salty scrub and I really don't get how I keep falling in this niche like an I-block in a game of Tetris.

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2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

As a player who's no stranger to PvP, I'd like to think my toxicity is er... appropriately channelled. 

Of course. Most people are able to properly manage themselves. There's just some, er... loud ones.

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7 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Any advice for a weird person when it comes to PvP games?

Blame your teammates.

But on a serious note, treat every loss as a lesson. Died because you attacked and your team were elsewhere? You could blame your team for not attacking with you and letting you die, but you could also look at it as you attacking when it's simply not a viable time to attack, or perhaps you were simply out of position.

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11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

But on a serious note, treat every loss as a lesson. Died because you attacked and your team were elsewhere? You could blame your team for not attacking with you and letting you die, but you could also look at it as you attacking when it's simply not a viable time to attack, or perhaps you were simply out of position.

It's a little bit more complex than that, though I will admit to find a lack of teamwork from both my end and/or my allies being an issue more often than not.

What I'm talking about is more the flat out oddness of either running into an elite that far outskills me or getting dropped into a match full of newbies no matter the game I pick up, like I'm stuck in this weird matchmaking bracket where it doesn't know where to put me, and because of that I often can't improve much because I just wind up either getting stomped so hard I can't even practice or being able to win with my eyes closed and learning nothing due to the effortless nature of the matchup.

I know it might sound weird or even impossible, but this happens to me with frightening consistency in PvP games, but honestly I think that might just be an indicator of my limits, I honestly don't think I could shake this problem even I tried.

...Maybe I should just go play Planetside 2 as a solo grunt and be casual cannon fodder, just to see if I can somehow have that problem follow me into something on a macro scale.

Edited by Aldain
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12 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Any advice for a weird person when it comes to PvP games?

I often find myself stuck in this weird niche of "good enough to not be trash" but "not good enough to actually be good", this often leaves me in this no man's land of either stomping or getting stomped with virtually no in-between.

It doesn't matter if it is fighting games, shooters, or anything else, I just have always had this problem and it just leaves me frustrated rather than satisfied or even feeling like a salty scrub and I really don't get how I keep falling in this niche like an I-block in a game of Tetris.

Yeah, that's me too. If I'm being honest.

In addition to what @DeMonkey has said, find your niche. Identify your weaknesses and figure out whether they can be overcome or not. For example, my reaction time is on the slower side - this is a biological thing with me, and I can't change that. So, in order to compensate, I've taken on roles that fit that better, flanking roles that allow me to get the drop on or outwit on my enemies, or alternatively, 'builder' roles. For example, Engineer in TF2 and Ronin in TF2.

On the same note, do try other playstyles, even if they don't suit you. At the very least observe them. Knowing common strategies is a good first step to forming strategies of your own. 

4 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It's a little bit more complex than that, though I will admit to find a lack of teamwork from both my end and/or my allies being an issue more often than not.

What I'm talking about is more the flat out oddness of either running into an elite that far outskills me or getting dropped into a match full of newbies no matter the game I pick up, like I'm stuck in this weird matchmaking bracket where it doesn't know where to put me, and because of that I often can't improve much because I just wind up either getting stomped so hard I can't even practice or being able to win with my eyes closed.

I know it might sound weird or even impossible, but this happens to me with frightening consistency in PvP games, but honestly I think that might just be an indicator of my limits, I honestly don't think I could shake this problem even I tried.

...Maybe I should just go play Planetside 2 as a solo grunt and be casual cannon fodder, just to see if I can somehow have that problem follow me into something on a macro scale.

I've always thought about it in terms of a video I saw from Uncle Dane (a Team Fortress 2 Youtuber) - "In pubs, sometimes you're the lion and sometimes you're the lamb". Since he's good enough to pretty much be considered the authority on Engineer in Team Fortress 2 by a decent chunk of the community and still feels that way, chances are you're not alone.

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

For example, my reaction time is on the slower side - this is a biological thing with me, and I can't change that. So, in order to compensate, I've taken on roles that fit that better, flanking roles that allow me to get the drop on or outwit on my enemies, or alternatively, 'builder' roles. For example, Engineer in TF2 and Ronin in TF2.

Reminds me of how my best performance in TF2 was tied between being a Medic and a Sniper (the simple "+1 dead medic" type, not the 1337 "-1 enemy team" kind) with a bit of Overly Distracting Heavy thrown in. My reaction speeds are middle of the road at best so those three are the ones that I often wound up as.

That's where my niche often leads me, a support type player, either that or a utility bot, my number one saying to people is "if you're relying on me we must REALLY be screwed" because I am definitely not a PvP superhero, which likely explains why I'm in that Lion or Lamb situation more often than I would like.

I do try other things though, usually to mixed results (if you ever saw me playing Engineer you would hate my guts, I am the WORST at that playstyle) but often it doesn't pan all that well out. I do tend to compensate by leaning into a "jack-of-all-trades" style when possible solely to try and provide assistance to others, like a medic with a bunch of flashbangs/smokes or other such cliches.

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25 minutes ago, Aldain said:

but honestly I think that might just be an indicator of my limits

It could also be matchmaking issues ofc.

16 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

In addition to what @DeMonkey has said, find your niche.

This is also helpful, especially across gaming as a whole. I've long since realised that whilst I can definitely appreciate the enjoyment of a stealthier more mobile character, I fare far better with a bruiser, and subsequently I enjoy myself and play a lot better as well. Be it PvP games such as Smite, or PvE games such a Divinity Original Sin, I know my niche and what I'm good at and I play it to the best of my ability.

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