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Twistedsparkle

The zhuge prime

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dont get me wrong the weapon is lotsa fun and its quite powerful
and I wouldnt be complaining if the self damage didnt work the way it does in warframe

you can very easily kill yourself in seconds and sometimes outright bam youre dead depending on your build

also self damaging with weapons that have that in warframe is pretty much unavoidable
hordes of enemies either spawn directly infront,behind or on top of you in fissures,   melee enemies always come hug you because thats how melee enemies work,
the derpy doors that I swear are programmed to slam in front of you as you try to kill whatever is on the other side just to murder yourself instead

not to mention the overall momentum of the game where you are always moving towards the enemy and vice versa

this isnt a new issue
players frequently complain about self damage how it works and they have been for years

now I dont even believe DE is gonna do absolutely anything about it for awhile if at all
but I have expressed my feedback on the matter nontheless

now how does this all make zhuge worse?
its a close to medium range weapon and its projectile based
it pretty much is one of the worse types of weapons to include self damage

like I said killing yourself is very easy to do with this weapon
and that pretty much means I will have to use spesific frames with spesific builds in order to use this weapon without the fear of offing myself with each trigger pull

DE please consider taking self damage away from this weapon

ty for reading 🙂

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I did notice that the arrows explode shortly after impact. And there are way worse weapons when it comes to self-damage, so I can understand why this one does it as well.

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No just no. Self-damage makes weapons like this complete and utter S#&$. I was so hyped for Zhuge Prime and now im just gonna level it and let it rot in my arsenal.

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Don’t really see a need why they need to remove the self damage away from the weapon. Just be better of your awareness of where you’re aiming and you’ll be perfectly fine.

I definitely see where you’re coming from since I used to be damage myself with the Zarr until I got enough practice with it and now I’m fine, just takes some time that’s all.

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The self-damage, beyond being logical, is also a tradeoff for the usually insane damage resulting from AoEing explosions.

Most of the problems you talked about are non-existent. Because you have 3 weapons slots and you're supposed to adjust accordingly. A melee enemy comes to you ? Why do you want to kill him with a self-damaging weapon ?

Second, the self-damage is kinda lame. A full-modded Zhuge cannot take more than 30% of my Equinox's life. You really have to empty the whole mag and sleep here for the self damage to kill you.

Third, Mod for Penetration (Shred) and the explosions will occur farther.

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Laughs in attica, but from what I hear the weapon works like that one mod that has a 30% chance the arrow to explode so this should do damage as well as that mod does

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7 minutes ago, AwkwardLazarow said:

Laughs in attica, but from what I hear the weapon works like that one mod that has a 30% chance the arrow to explode so this should do damage as well as that mod does

It doesn't, the explosion is far superior to Thunderbolt.

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12 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Don’t really see a need why they need to remove the self damage away from the weapon. Just be better of your awareness of where you’re aiming and you’ll be perfectly fine.

I definitely see where you’re coming from since I used to be damage myself with the Zarr until I got enough practice with it and now I’m fine, just takes some time that’s all.

Yeah, but the amount of damage out put this weapon does, the terrible reload with a mechanic that doesn't promote smart play (a.k.a reloading before engagements), self damage, non hitscan arrows and the fact it is an alarming weapon (which is more of a nitpick) makes this weapon have a lot of down sides. The non hitscan part sucks but it's a bow, we we will have to deal that's fine, the damage out put us fine but the self damage bolts hinder it's overall usability and it had as much damage as zar then it would be a little more excusable. I think it doesn't need another downside being self damage, the weapon becomes better without it. 

 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

Yeah, but the amount of damage out put this weapon does, the terrible reload with a mechanic that doesn't promote smart play (a.k.a reloading before engagements), self damage, non hitscan arrows and the fact it is an alarming weapon (which is more of a nitpick) makes this weapon have a lot of down sides. The non hitscan part sucks but it's a bow, we we will have to deal that's fine, the damage out put us fine but the self damage bolts hinder it's overall usability and it had as much damage as zar then it would be a little more excusable. I think it doesn't need another downside being self damage, the weapon becomes better without it. 

 

That’s the point, the self damage is definitely a major downside to the weapon to balance out it’s insane damage.

@Chewarette explained it perfectly.

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10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It doesn't, the explosion is far superior to Thunderbolt.

It does? Is it affected by mods or is it a fixed value? I don't remember the wiki mention anything about the explosion damage value.

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1 minute ago, Gamma745 said:

It does? Is it affected by mods or is it a fixed value? I don't remember the wiki mention anything about the explosion damage value.

Affected by mods, also can proc status effects independently of the initial hit.

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Affected by mods, also can proc status effects independently of the initial hit.

Dang, looks like we finally got a decent full auto explosive weapons.

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So, can we talk about the self damaging, non silent primed crossbow that DE sells in a bundle for 45 bucks?
What the hek were they thinking? I need answers.

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Does it break Ivara's prowl invisibility while being fired? That's what I'm most interested about. I'll be farming the weapon later so I just wanted to ask ahead of time.

If it does, real deal breaker for me.

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5 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

Does it break Ivara's prowl invisibility while being fired? That's what I'm most interested about. I'll be farming the weapon later so I just wanted to ask ahead of time.

If it does, real deal breaker for me.

Nope won't break her prowl, the main shot is still silent and its only the ensuing small explosion that makes any noise and the explosion won't break prowl.

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4 minutes ago, Nurmetya said:

Nope won't break her prowl, the main shot is still silent and its only the ensuing small explosion that makes any noise and the explosion won't break prowl.

Sweet! Zhuge prime still on the table for my froggy princess, this makes me happy. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

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I don't find this a problem at all, the only reason self damaging weapons are a problem are because most of them can one shot you and don't give you any leeway to avoid it, the reason why the lenz is so good even as a self damaging weapon is because even though it can one shot you, it has a delayed explosion and it is completely possible to exit the explosion before you get hit by the full blast. 

A similar thing is with the Zhuge prime, first of all, the explosions are slightly delayed so you have time to jump away if you realize you shot too close to you, and the second is that because it is not designed as a 1-shot kill type weapon but rather a full auto weapon, the explosions themselves don't have enough damage to one shot most frames and rather take 2-3 shots for middle squishy frames and around 5-6 for tankier frames, sure it can proc status on you, but because it doesn't instantly 1 shot you, you have time to react such as "oh shoot I got hit by myself, better jump away".

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1 hour ago, Qamelion said:

So, can we talk about the self damaging, non silent primed crossbow that DE sells in a bundle for 45 bucks?
What the hek were they thinking? I need answers.

I don't find the self damage from this weapon in particular to be a problem at all, due to the fact that it does not one shot you and gives you time to react in 2 ways.

1. The bolts explosion is delayed, so you have time to jump away if you see you shot one too close to you.

2. The weapon does not do enough single shot damage to one shot most frames even fully modded, only one shotting the squishier side of frames without any survivability mods.

For example, it only kills a wukong with vitality with 5-6 shots without his defy buff up, Wukongs base stats themselves without abilities are about average to above average in tankiness. If you get killed constantly by this weapon, it is undoubtedly your own fault and slow reaction time, just like with the lenz, it gives enough leeway for you to avoid being killed by it, unlike other explosive weapons like the Zarr or angstrum where if you accidently kill yourself it is 100% the fault of the weapon.

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We have never had such dramatic mechanism change in a primed weapon.

Ballistics Prime changes only the way of firing, it still fires bolts. But now we are getting a primed grenade launcher which no one asked for from a dam crossbow and it's unacceptable.

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Giving it a visual representation of size of the explosion would help! The current one is just too small. As well as something like distortion effect on the explosion zone, before the explosion similar to Lenz, would certainly help avoid deaths from self-damage. Save from removing it altogether.

While at it, giving VFX to Thunderbolt and Concealed Explosives mods would be great. For blast status proc too. :v

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28 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

We have never had such dramatic mechanism change in a primed weapon.

Cernos went from a Bow to a Shotgun Bow.

Zhuge went from a Crossbow to an Explosive Crossbow. They seem equally dramatic.

35 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

primed grenade launcher

Hardly.

35 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

unacceptable

Lol.

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its a minor upgrade at best, sidegrade/downgrade to an already super mediocre weapon with the self damage. plus as many have mentioned since its a delayed explosions it is hilariously timed to kill you if you progress forward while shooting which is the most effective way if playing the game. 

if you wanted to go further and make it actually a good/fun weapon to use you could make the explosions heal you a small ammount if it damages an enemy and hits you at the same time, rewarding forward progression instread of punishing it. i think that would make it a very unique and fun but not too overpowered ofva weapon. maybe make mod that does that even to balancecit further towards being bad lol.

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Blast status doesn't do self damage it just knocks down enemies. Most blast weapons just coincidentally also do self damage.

Better tells for self damage would be nice though.

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6 hours ago, Qamelion said:

So, can we talk about the self damaging, non silent primed crossbow that DE sells in a bundle for 45 bucks?
What the hek were they thinking? I need answers.

I mean I think the core problem is literally the elephant in the room DE probably should address, which is that self-damage in Warframe is BS.

The Zhuge Prime is less awful about it because its explosion damage is low enough that winging yourself doesn't matter much and the blast radius is tiny, but it's still just annoying BS that shows that the implementation of self-damage in a fast-paced horde shooter with VFX happening everywhere and tons of things onscreen at all times while you control a fast-moving cyborg ninja flipping around in tight quarters is fundamentally flawed, and at best it's just an aggravation that makes a weapon feel worse without giving any interesting gameplay benefits.

At worst, it dumpsters entire weapons categories.

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How about they either

1. Completely remove self-damage, it has no 0 reason to exist in WF.

2. Make Cautious Shot do 100% Self Damage reduction instead of 99%.

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