Rework Kubrows.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

4 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

I hate that these to mods are a bit of a crutch for all builds, a bit mandatory. 

I will not use that terms, I’m Melee player using Vitality in all builds, so for me it’s logical decision because it’s easiest way, with min Slots used, how to keep Kubrow alive, bordering with little laziness to change Build with different Frames. Of Pack Leader doesn’t automatically means you should Melee only, here is difference between “Normal” and “Primed” version: When Melee Pack Leader is enough when not Primed, it’s like difference between unranked and maxed Life Strike, 1 swing after Kubrow inform you, with bark, and you can continue with gameplay. There are tons of possibilities how to heal Kubrow but this is, IMO, fastest way. Fetch and Animal Instinct/Primed as mandatory, this is for me absolute nonsense. Fetch, still better then Vacuum on Frames on default, if you go to farm take Carrier, AI/P this looks for me little bit alibistic: I have no space on WF for Radar Mods, nvm, I put it on Kubrow.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Kubrows need amazing damage and endurance to be viable as is. Also make them far more aggressive then any other companion always on an enemy trying to tear them apart. Kavats and the Moas would be more for utility, and kubrows would be the loyal and extremely aggressive companions!

[(PSN)Onder6099]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Kubrows need amazing damage and endurance to be viable as is. Also make them far more aggressive then any other companion always on an enemy trying to tear them apart. Kavats and the Moas would be more for utility, and kubrows would be the loyal and extremely aggressive companions!

Are you serious? Kubrows can reach CC over 100% or hit SC at 65% with Slash around 1300, properly moded for Mecha set you can vanish enemies better then Thanos.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 Are you serious? Kubrows can reach CC over 100% or hit SC at 65% with Slash around 1300, properly moded for Mecha set you can vanish enemies better then Thanos.

That really is not all that much and unless your running one of the two super tanky health only frames reliably so they survive long enough to do anything. I mean is is decent enough but kubrows should be the extreme heavy hitter and hit takers of the companions able to hang out with level 100 enemies regardless of the frame being used in my opinion.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

56 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

That really is not all that much and unless your running one of the two super tanky health only frames reliably so they survive long enough to do anything. I mean is is decent enough but kubrows should be the extreme heavy hitter and hit takers of the companions able to hang out with level 100 enemies regardless of the frame being used in my opinion.

It’s your pet, you’re responsible for it. “I put tons of Formas to you, so go and don’t come back if you will not deal highest Dps without any effort from because I will go and consign you to Lotus” simply doesn’t work. When I put Hunter Recovery into OP build (need full rework for best result from my POV) with Chesa I will get: Nekros with Desecrate running with Arca Plasmor + Trin casting Bless with EV build and Carrier sentinel and that is not enough for you?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Are you serious? Kubrows can reach CC over 100% or hit SC at 65% with Slash around 1300, properly moded for Mecha set you can vanish enemies better then Thanos.

Doesn't change the fact that they are stupid. The animations are embarrassing. Not to mention how often they stand still and do nothing only to get repeatedly downed over and over and over. Or how long it takes for them to actually attack, to just scratch the enemies feet lol. Taking brows to arbs is suicide for them. Taking brows to certain boss fights is suicide for them. Putting brows up against certain infested, grinneer and corpus enemies is suicide for them. 

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I’m Melee player

I'm not. I'm a precision shooter. I really really really dislike the melee in this game.  I should not have to melee everytime I want to heal my Kubrow. There should be other ways other than playing only healer or max health frames. 

Kubrows need a complete overhaul. From the fur/colors, to armor, percepts, pathing, AI, stats, animations. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Kubrows need amazing damage and endurance to be viable as is. Also make them far more aggressive then any other companion always on an enemy trying to tear them apart. Kavats and the Moas would be more for utility, and kubrows would be the loyal and extremely aggressive companions!

This^

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Doesn't change the fact that they are stupid. The animations are embarrassing. Not to mention how often they stand still and do nothing only to get repeatedly downed over and over and over. Or how long it takes for them to actually attack to scratch the enemies feet lol. Taking brows to arbs is suicide for them. Taking brows to certain boss fights is suicide for them. Putting brows up against certain infested, grinneer and corpus enemies is suicide for them. 

Yeah basically this, you need a specific frame to keep them alive for a suitable amount of time and even then they do nothing compared to the utility kavats, sentinals or even moas offer. They need way more damage and way more survivability to be viable for endgame if your not playing Inaros or nidus and even then single target kills unconsistantly is not reason enough to use them. so in conclusion, they are dumb as a box of bricks (all companions really, which is why sentinels are the go to unless your farming for loot) and their stats are not good enough for how stupid they are most of the time doing nothing at all in endgame because they spend their time going down again and again. Glad we agree on this and I do hope they buff the space pets big time in the future!

[(PSN)Onder6099]

3 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Doesn't change the fact that they are stupid. The animations are embarrassing. Not to mention how often they stand still and do nothing only to get repeatedly downed over and over and over. Or how long it takes for them to actually attack, to just scratch the enemies feet lol. Taking brows to arbs is suicide for them. Taking brows to certain boss fights is suicide for them. Putting brows up against certain infested, grinneer and corpus enemies is suicide for them. 

 

I'm not. I'm a precision shooter. I really really really dislike the melee in this game.  I should not have to melee everytime I want to heal my Kubrow. There should be other ways other than playing only healer or max health frames. 

Kubrows need a complete overhaul. From the fur/colors, to armor, percepts, pathing, AI, stats, animations. 

 

[Test-995]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with it, you are meleeing 24/7 and have a mote buff, indeed your kubrow gonna survive.

[Redpaws]

Was gonna make my own thread, but probably better to just post here! Organic pets (and kubrows/helminths in particular) reaaaally need an overhaul. Aside from a complete overhaul of the AI (Why does my dog attack the same stationary enemy 5 times before being able to land a hit? I assume kavats don't have the same issue with the +range mod), one of the biggest thing I think beasts need is...

A BUILT IN WEAPON.

It's extremely to fit anything "extra" in a build when Kubrows/Helminths/Kavats only get 10 slots. 10 slots that have to fit their base abilities (why aren't these innate?), utility, damage, survivability... Meanwhile, MOAs get 10 slots for abilities, utility, and survivability, and an additional 8 for damage.

Then there's also the issue that the base stats are so pathetic, that beasts end up having to rely completely on link mods. So unless you're playing a tank frame, well... "*name of beast here* is down!" This is an issue MOAs share.

And then there's the whole added annoyance of the upkeep that none of the other companions have to deal with... I mean, if nothing else, let players craft a one-time use item to stabilize the DNA of one pet forever? (Of course being able to build it several times, be it with a reusable blueprint, or being able to buy blueprints directly)

And for mods... Make Medi-Pet Kit heal a % each second instead of a flat rate (and usable on sentinels), and UNIVERSAL VACUUM. And for the tiny minority that don't want vacuum, just add it as a toggle in Options. Heck, make it so you can freely change it even during a mission. Now got an additional slot free!.. Or being able to run without a companion at all and still have vacuum. Or just having vacuum in missions that don't allow companions.

[Naneel]

I am in for a complete overhaul of Companions especially Kubrow. Their AI is even worse than Mind Controlled targets. In particular the pathfinding is horrible on Kubrow, not so much on Kavat as they can jump on walls (cannot speak for MOA as I don't have one). Better stats would be nice, but I think the bigger problem is the missing capacity and mod slots to make them good. They either need seperate weapons like sentinels or have some mods innate and better stats, so we will need less mods to make them well.

And please also fix their apperance, it became really obvious with the new Intro how bad Kubrow look ingame (DE even gave as nice comparison by themselves : https://www.warframe.com/news/frame-by-frame-contest)

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, Naneel said:

And please also fix their apperance, it became really obvious with the new Intro how bad Kubrow look ingame (DE even gave as nice comparison by themselves : https://www.warframe.com/news/frame-by-frame-contest)

[OwlOfJune]

All of dog/cat mods take up so much only to not matter unless you bring specific frames to help their health.

 

They should have more slots and more mods. 

 

Perhaps they can have 'Body' part for 'biological' stuff like bite mods, sensor mods, health mods etc and 'Collar' for some space-magic-ish stuff like Vaccum, shield, special effect mods etc

 

 

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

23 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 

Do it without a wisp mote and use your guns more then your melee and if you can go up to level 120+ in arbitrations solo without it going down then you can say they preform well in endgame. And I guess lets also add the stipulation of no healing frames, super high base health frames, or Invulnerability gimmicks if you are so sure they can stand on their own with a low health/armor frame as is! That video has everything working in your favor to make it possible and without that wisp and you using melee most the mission you would of been reviving that thing constantly and you know it. without everything in your frames and the pets favor they just don't have the staying power they should have and they need some massive buffs to be independent of the frame they are being used with!

Edited July 22, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[el_chanis]

the main problem with both kubrows and kavatas are that they have effectly half the mods Moas and Sentinels have, thanks to the lack of a weapon. While i can understand why would be that, the reliance on mods that not only works over an already weak base stat, but also conditions our own build (the infamous link mechanic), means that you have to make a hard trade between survival, utility, and damage.

In my experience, while i like kubrows attacking (looks nice, feels good from an immersion pov, and helps with the dps a bit), the truth is they will never get even CLOSE to my warframe and/or weapons, so i basicly ditch that aspect of them, and focus on their survival and utility.

If you want a more proactive and agressive companion, go for Moas or Sentinels, they are far superior in that regard (altho sentinels tend to remain dead in high lvl missions).

[(PSN)Onder6099]

22 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Do it without a wisp mote and use your guns more then your melee and if you can go up to level 120+ in arbitrations solo without it going down then you can say they preform well in endgame. And I guess lets also add the stipulation of no healing frames, super high base health frames, or Invulnerability gimmicks if you are so sure they can stand on their own with a low health/armor frame as is! That video has everything working in your favor to make it possible and without that wisp and you using melee most the mission you would of been reviving that thing constantly and you know it. without everything in your frames and the pets favor they just don't have the staying power they should have and they need some massive buffs to be independent of the frame they are being used with!

What else, MK-1 Weapons only? You’re sending me into the content where players dying with Frames not even Companions. Unfortunately I’m that kind of player who masturbate, every time he made hard Content set for Squad, while dozens of players focused on Coop leaving because DE is forced to softened the game. Back to Topic, about Favor, I set Primary to Mecha Overdrive, Secondary served against Arbi drones, I put Pack Leader Mecha mods into Banshee, BANSHEE, casting Sonar and Silence and you asking me to use Weapon. Btw the Wisp was randie, I was be dumb to not use her Buffs, but if expect from that I will jump from PuG to PuG just to satisfy your Conditions, you’re wrong. I went here, looks like as Don Quixote, because I highly disagree wit this False Mainstream build on embarrassing, repetitive Topics about Kubrows, highly ashamed that not only inexperienced but a long term players are just blame and complain while, imho, they should go and find the way how to get advantages from Kubrows. Not Kubrows aren’t worth your gameplay, you’re not worth Kubrows. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by (PS4)Onder6099

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

What else, MK-1 Weapons only? You’re sending me into the content where players dying with Frames not even Companions. Unfortunately I’m that kind of player who masturbate, every time he made hard Content set for Squad, while dozens of players focused on Coop leaving because DE is forced to softened the game. Back to Topic, about Favor, I set Primary to Mecha Overdrive, Secondary served against Arbi drones, I put Pack Leader Mecha mods into Banshee, BANSHEE, casting Sonar and Silence and you asking me to use Weapon. Btw the Wisp was randie, I was be dumb to not use her Buffs, but if expect from that I will jump from PuG to PuG just to satisfy your Conditions, you’re wrong. I went here, looks like as Don Quixote, because I highly disagree wit this False Mainstream build on embarrassing, repetitive Topics about Kubrows, highly ashamed that not only inexperienced but a long term players are just blame and complain while, imho, they should go and find the way how to get advantages from Kubrows. Not Kubrows aren’t worth your gameplay, you’re not worth Kubrows. 

Or it could be you just so happened to have everything you needed to make it survive by chance and without it I assure you it would of gone down a few times in low level content if you did not melee the whole time. it woudl of had next to no armor or health so speak of and its stupid Ai would of charged into its death over and over. Meanwhile me and my prisma shade lasts as long as I am careful and stay on the move as well as having more utility in general and a nice damage buff, invisibility, no upkeep, and enough lives it rarely dies for good any any given mission even an hour into an arbitration! I could go on about how even the worst of sentinels are gonna be better then even the best built Kubrows requiring less specific builds but that would be wasted on you with how you insist the worst companions are actually good. Not to mention when you have to cater a build just to make them viable with some luck from your squad mates to boot. you are most likely just a Kubrow shill who invested to much time into useless mods and setups to admit you were wrong and don't want to seem like you goofed so insead you defend them anyway XD

Edited July 23, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[(PSN)Onder6099]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Or it could be you just so happened to have everything you needed to make it survive by chance and without it I assure you it would of gone down a few times in low level content if you did not melee the whole time. it woudl of had next to no armor or health so speak of and its stupid Ai would of charged into its death over and over. Meanwhile me and my prisma shade lasts as long as I am careful and stay on the move as well as having more utility in general and a nice damage buff, invisibility, no upkeep, and enough lives it rarely dies for good any any given mission even an hour into an arbitration! I could go on about how even the worst of sentinels are gonna be better then even the best built Kubrows requiring less specific builds but that would be wasted on you with how you insist the worst companions are actually good. Not to mention when you have to cater a build just to make them viable with some luck from your squad mates to boot. you are most likely just a Kubrow shill who invested to much time into useless mods and setups to admit you were wrong and don't want to seem like you goofed so insead you defend them anyway XD

You know what Mecha Pulse icon means, right?

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

You know what Mecha Pulse icon means, right?

Yeah I looked into all those mods but was not impressed because they just aren't worth using due to bad AI and having such tight builds and frame dependency it just isn't worth the effort. Why go the more complicated route and risk AI being a pain and constantly going down when I could go the easy assured route of working pretty much 99.99 percent of the time unless you muck it up which is all on you if it does just so happen to die? I prefer consistency and space doggos just do not offer consistency. If I had it my way I would give them more durability and damage at base by a large margin, make modding for the claws separate to free up space on the actual build for utility, and lastly buff the generic mods they do offer and give all pets all the command options of venari to increase consistency and give them better AI in general. The healing and whatnot would stay unique to venari of course but defend and attack would be the two basic options I would put into it.

Edited July 23, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[(XBOX)Salty Ginger]

I just ask for more fluff

[Caine2112]

I agree being able to add a keybind to toggle a Kubrow/Kavat/Moa's AI to be Aggressive/Defensive (maybe Hold Position/Follow?) would definitely add some improvement to companions as a whole.  But the AI and its pathing are in dire need of some serious overhaul.

I would even go so far as to say that some enemy AI that uses companion AI settings could also do with some of this overhaul.

My brother and I did a defense mission for the recent Corpus Tactical Alert whereby we had to defend the beacon on Europa.  Every few waves you had robot doggies that would attack us.  Their AI and pathing was far superior than moas.  They skirted around the various obstacles with ease and came at us in different angles.  They were a better challenge than moas walking up to us, stand still and shoot their lasers.  I could definitely see our own companions with this level of AI do a better job fighting at our own side.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Yeah I looked into all those mods but was not impressed because they just aren't worth using due to bad AI and having such tight builds and frame dependency it just isn't worth the effort. Why go the more complicated route and risk AI being a pain and constantly going down when I could go the easy assured route of working pretty much 99.99 percent of the time unless you muck it up which is all on you if it does just so happen to die? I prefer consistency and space doggos just do not offer consistency. If I had it my way I would give them more durability and damage at base by a large margin, make modding for the claws separate to free up space on the actual build for utility, and lastly buff the generic mods they do offer and give all pets all the command options of venari to increase consistency and give them better AI in general. The healing and whatnot would stay unique to venari of course but defend and attack would be the two basic options I would put into it.

I like you left conversation smelling by preen. Back to Mecha set, it also kill Enemies in Range and I’m afraid it has no Dmg cap as you can see here at around 0:25:

I posted that several times but again, nobody cared, 960% MP also says, Kubrow technically killed 16 Enemies in split second. Sure, set doesn’t fit to every mission but is amazing in Defenses, when marked Enemy is killed by Ally you don’t receive Armor buff but Killing blow on Enemies  is still there. That’s the reason why I’m willing to sacrifice few Slots.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Dezeption]

I am also a fan of the mecha set - but it is not for everyone. I love it when using Saryn with a flamethrower or Astilla (or any status weapon - especially melee such) - and I find it as pretty much as viable endgame as most min-maxed meta builds. Maybe I cannot take down those level 2 000 heavy gunners - but let's be honest, when am I supposed to do so? I've never had a point with my mecha build where I've had to leave due to lack of damage.

But Onder6099 is right, it is not for all types of missions - and most definitely not for all kinds of frames (or players)...

However, having one good build does not make up for all of the flaws that comes with the kubrows naturally - like their slow animations, their absolutely outrageous AI and their underwhelming abilities. 

[Dezeption]

GREAT NEWS EVERYONE!

Progress!

Loads of armors (including umbra, sloughi, rostam and amphatz now actually fit the bulky kubrow build! \o/ A small step in the right direction!