The Soma Solution

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

On 2019-07-14 at 11:18 AM, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

The Soma Prime is mediocre.

Now normally this wouldn't bug me, as in Warframe it is only natural for some weapons to be better or worse than others. That said, the Soma family is an odd exception as it was once proudly toted as a top tier weapon with a unique mechanic; so to see it fall from grace [...] is a rather sad sight.

This reminds me of people wanting to buff Stalker. The guy starts as a dangerous opponent, and as the game progresses, and grow and unlock your power as a Tenno, you surpass him and leave him behind. And some people... just always want him to be what he was. They don't want new threats, they want the same old one, and for us to never outgrow them, or move on, or... advance.

This reminds me of that. People not wanting to progress and instead live in the past. Soma was top dog for awhile so... it should be that way forever? We should never move on, never face new threats, never grow and change?

It seems like a large portion of the player base just wants to shoot the same bogeyman with the same gun forever.

I... just don't get it.

[Maka.Bones]

44 minutes ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said:

This reminds me of people wanting to buff Stalker. The guy starts as a dangerous opponent, and as the game progresses, and grow and unlock your power as a Tenno, you surpass him and leave him behind. And some people... just always want him to be what he was. They don't want new threats, they want the same old one, and for us to never outgrow them, or move on, or... advance.

This reminds me of that. People not wanting to progress and instead live in the past. Soma was top dog for awhile so... it should be that way forever? We should never move on, never face new threats, never grow and change?

It seems like a large portion of the player base just wants to shoot the same bogeyman with the same gun forever.

I... just don't get it.

We uh... remember how much fun it was to have that opponent/use that weapon? ... not that there's anything wrong with new weapons/new threats, but you *can* have both yanno? 

[birdobash]

IRRC, the prime variant's only difference is double the magazine and an extra 2% status, which is pretty garbage when the soma has 10%. The fact that the soma and soma prime are essentially almost the same exact weapon in terms of stats means theres actually some room to buff the prime a bit while leaving the base the same, which makes the prime worthy of being a prime variant.

Your analysis is spot on, the main problem with the soma is that its base damage is extremely bad, even the braton has about twice the base damage of the soma, but another problem I see is the fire rate, where it is just fast enough that you'll run out of ammo when fighting tougher enemies, but just slow enough that the DPS coming out of it does not feel strong enough and doesn't apply things like viral quickly enough. When you have a hunter munitions crit based rifle, you want that viral to apply in the first 0.2 seconds, not after 1-3 seconds of nonstop spray in your face.

Although the Soma and Soma prime had a revival back in 2017 thanks to cetus and hunter munitions, the fact that its base damage is so low meant that the multipliers from crit did not have much of a multiplier to go off of, meaning slash damage was being held back severely. Fast firing low damage weapons are much more suited for status application, which the soma and prime lack much of, just take a look at the prisma grakata or normal grakata, very similar but have good status supporting stats.

Edited July 16, 2019 by birdobash

[SnowWarFr]

On 2019-07-14 at 10:36 AM, xXDeadsinxX said:

The Soma Prime does not need a buff, it’s still a monster of a weapon even if other weapons out perform it. I even bring it to sorties every now and then and it’s still a 100% viable weapon that kills everything in it’s way.

Not as fast, though.

[Guest]

Solution to fix Soma Prime:

Increase base damage. Like come on man Prisma Gorgon has like 23 base damage, Tenora has 24, Fulmin has 33! on full auto and their CC is about the same. Even if you consider multipliers. With their multipliers, Prisma Gorgon pulls 55 base per crit, Tenora 48 and Fulmin 92.1 without mods, while Soma P is a measly 36 damage. Increasing the damage to 17 will allow it to do 51 per crit which is competitive enough with other rifles of the same kind.

Increase Status Chance - a bump up to an SC of around 15 - 20% will make its ability to proc viral a lot more consistent for HM and allow it to strip armor more effectively when built for corrosive.

Would say the CC could go to 35% just for nostalgia's sake but that's it.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Guest

[Maka.Bones]

29 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Would say the CC could go to 35% just for nostalgia's sake but that's it.

Why not 40% or 45%? why "35%... [and] that's it"?

If they mainly increase base damage, it's just gonna end up like every other rifle that gets ignored over the Supra Vandal, or the Fulmin. Focusing on increasing its CC and CD would create enough of a difference to stand on it's own separately from the already existing rifles (considering there would be no other rifle with that high of a CC/CD)

Edited July 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[000l000]

Il y a 13 heures, Maka.Bones a dit :

Yeah that's exactly my point on it needing more crit (but yes, it could also use more CD). It honestly needs a better disparity from regular soma imo. Yes it can already be built for crit, but it's hard to get red crits without some niche setup or a riven. But I do agree with you, it's not that soma is weak by any means... just that it almost depends on niche/special mods. Tbh it doesn't even need 50% even just an increase to 40-45% CC would be plenty significant

But that's definitely not mine, more crit would make this weapon way more unbalanced especially since it's only a rank 7 weapon. And if you think that having a kavat and using argon scope or an arcane is a niche setup, you're totally wrong, that's quite common gearing. Aiming for orange and red crits is the only thing that matters when building crit weapons and not using mods, arcanes or a kavat are definitely making this kind of weapons weaker - more than real hybrid or status weapons.

You won't see 50% crit chance on a rank 7 weapon now, they even did nerf Synapse which was a way higher rank weapon and it has now 39% crit chance only. DE isn't supposed to buff a weapon because a minority has decided that using a kavat or a mod is for some reasons a "niche setup". That's beyond ridiculous. Most critical weapons have now 30-32% crit chance at best, Soma is then one of the best.

Edited July 16, 2019 by 000l000

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why not 40% or 45%? why "35%... [and] that's it"?

If they mainly increase base damage, it's just gonna end up like every other rifle that gets ignored over the Supra Vandal, or the Fulmin. Focusing on increasing its CC and CD would create enough of a difference to stand on it's own separately from the already existing rifles (considering there would be no other rifle with that high of a CC/CD)

At the end of the day, as much as I want 40% CC and a higher multi, at 100% crit chance, pretty much you just take it as though the crit multiplier is always there.

which means even with a 4x crit multi (same as Nukor) and a 40% crit chance, you would still have 40 damage after multipliers (you build the Tenora, Prisma G and Fulmin the same). That would still make the gun objectively worse that those 3 competitors (don't get me started on the Buzlok...)

Changing the color of the numbers doesn't change the size of the numbers and Gimmicky colors isn't going to make people use the Soma. Hence, the Base Damage going up makes infinitely more sense.

[TeaHawk]

Firstly I thought "what the hell he's talking about? 30% x3 crit is super good". But then I've checked it on builder. Now I can see. Even with good riven it's hard to go over 50k dps. That's really poor performance for a primary. (I don't use weapon bellow 60k dps). I'd suggest buffing base damage, because 50% crit would not do much with such a low base damage. At current state it is sure that soma is... not a very good weapon to go lvl 90+.

Edited July 16, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Autongnosis]

il y a 50 minutes, TeaHawk a dit :

Firstly I thought "what the hell he's talking about? 30% x3 crit is super good". But then I've checked it on builder. Now I can see. Even with good riven it's hard to go over 50k dps. That's really poor performance for a primary. (I don't use weapon bellow 60k dps). I'd suggest buffing base damage, because 50% crit would not do much with such a low base damage. At current state it is sure that soma is... not a very good weapon to go lvl 90+.

The problem is the Soma is a legacy weapon of the worst weapon category in the game (ARs). 

It was good 4 years ago when 27k dps was insane, now any top weapon pulls off 75k+ easily and some push far over 200k with rivens, let alone for melees that can get over 1mln without frame buffs. 

It also got really shafted like boltor by riven dispositions being based on popularity, so stuff like new 3 dispo guns compare to soma with 1 dispo... 

So yeah... 

[TeaHawk]

2 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

The problem is the Soma is a legacy weapon of the worst weapon category in the game (ARs). 

It was good 4 years ago when 27k dps was insane, now any top weapon pulls off 75k+ easily and some push far over 200k with rivens, let alone for melees that can get over 1mln without frame buffs. 

It also got really shafted like boltor by riven dispositions being based on popularity, so stuff like new 3 dispo guns compare to soma with 1 dispo... 

So yeah... 

I think they should consider buffing the whole category a little bit. Thing they will never do I guess.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, TeaHawk a dit :

I think they should consider buffing the whole category a little bit. Thing they will never do I guess.

I agree. Tbh the whole AR category is disastrous. The top tier ones barely compete with mid tier of other stuff. Tiberon Prime is praised for being amazing but it only actually is if you exploit it to death, and even then other guns just blow it out of the water, and not even top tier ones mind. 

In general tho currently literally no gun can compete with melee. Like, i have a rivened glaive that pushes 45mln damage per throw in an aoe, a good half of it being finisher dmg. How the heck are you supposed to keep up with that with a gun. 

[TeaHawk]

I used to love tiberon but they keep nerfing rivens hard so now it's garbage.

[Maka.Bones]

9 hours ago, 000l000 said:

But that's definitely not mine, more crit would make this weapon way more unbalanced especially since it's only a rank 7 weapon

Then raise the MR? I don't see an issue there, considering it's a vaulted weapon, and the regular soma is already MR6

[Maka.Bones]

8 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

At the end of the day, as much as I want 40% CC and a higher multi, at 100% crit chance, pretty much you just take it as though the crit multiplier is always there.

which means even with a 4x crit multi (same as Nukor) and a 40% crit chance, you would still have 40 damage after multipliers (you build the Tenora, Prisma G and Fulmin the same). That would still make the gun objectively worse that those 3 competitors (don't get me started on the Buzlok...)

Changing the color of the numbers doesn't change the size of the numbers and Gimmicky colors isn't going to make people use the Soma. Hence, the Base Damage going up makes infinitely more sense.

increasing CC would increase it's crit tier (yellow>orange>red) which would increase it's damage exponentially, without touching its base damage. A base damage increase alone, wouldn't be able to accomplish that kind of damage increase. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

6 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

The problem is the Soma is a legacy weapon of the worst weapon category in the game (ARs). 

It was good 4 years ago when 27k dps was insane, now any top weapon pulls off 75k+ easily and some push far over 200k with rivens, let alone for melees that can get over 1mln without frame buffs. 

It also got really shafted like boltor by riven dispositions being based on popularity, so stuff like new 3 dispo guns compare to soma with 1 dispo... 

So yeah... 

Have you not used the Tenora, the Supra Vandal, the Amprex, or the Fulmin? They're all ARs and are disastrously powerful. The supra vandal doesn't even need to crit, to kill anything in ESO, due to it's sheer damage, ammo size, and fire-rate. 

There's nothing wrong with ARs as a category. It just happens to have a lot of other crappy weapons. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

increasing CC would increase it's crit tier (yellow>orange>red) which would increase it's damage exponentially, without touching its base damage. A base damage increase alone, wouldn't be able to accomplish that kind of damage increase. 

Ok, let's assume it is 50% CC.

Base stat is 36 damage, on orange crit is 72.

That is still less than the Fulmin ... and you will only get an orange crit 25% of the time with only Point Strike.

Even if you talk about Rivens, A Prisma Gorgon or Fulmin with a Riven will still outcompete it.

No, increasing CC achieves nothing. CD makes more sense in conjunction with CC. 4x and 40% would give more useful and stable DPS than 50% and 3 times.

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Ok, let's assume it is 50% CC.

Base stat is 36 damage, on orange crit is 72.

That is still less than the Fulmin ... and you will only get an orange crit 25% of the time with only Point Strike.

Even if you talk about Rivens, A Prisma Gorgon or Fulmin with a Riven will still outcompete it.

No, increasing CC achieves nothing. CD makes more sense in conjunction with CC. 4x and 40% would give more useful and stable DPS than 50% and 3 times.

You're ignoring argon scope, or cursed crit mods, which would give the soma guaranteed orange crits, and a better chance for red crits. 

But I do agree about CC and CD in conjunction with each other though. I just want to see more red crits on soma ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 40% CC (base) wouldn't be enough to raise it above 200% CC

Edited July 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

You're ignoring argon scope, or cursed crit mods, which would give the soma guaranteed orange crits, and a better chance for red crits. 

But I do agree about CC and CD in conjunction with each other though. I just want to see more red crits on soma ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 40% CC (base) wouldn't be enough to raise it above 200% CC

Argon Scope is also available to Prisma Gorgon and Fulmin. The fact additive CC like Adarza exists further devalues adding CC.

Soma is just mathematically irrelevant at this point and the only solution is base damage.

 

[Maka.Bones]

21 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Argon Scope is also available to Prisma Gorgon and Fulmin. The fact additive CC like Adarza exists further devalues adding CC.

Soma is just mathematically irrelevant at this point and the only solution is base damage.

 

It is not *the only* solution, and it isn't a very creative/unique solution either since Red crits aren't available to Prisma Gorgon, or Fulmin. 

"Only sith deal in absolutes."

Edited July 17, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[George_PPS]

Soma Prime’s mechanics, machine gun sound, and fast fire rate was the reason I liked it a lot ...   until .... it couldn’t keep up the high enemies. This awesome weapon really deserves huge buffs in both base stats and also Riven Disposition to 5/5 so it can be used for long survival and high level missions. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

deserves huge buffs in both base stats and also Riven Disposition to 5/5 so it can be used for long survival and high level missions. 

Dunno if sarcastic or real, but I can't say I disagree.

[SerphV]

If you apply the to buff Soma theory to all other weapons... all other weapons should be buff as well.

I think like 1 of the other guy said before, thats where the Riven Dispo comes in... eventually if it has 5 dispo... it will probably be good...

[Guest]

Just now, SerphV said:

I think like 1 of the other guy said before, thats where the Riven Dispo comes in... eventually if it has 5 dispo... it will probably be good...

Relying on an OP Riven to make the gun good  doesn't make the gun itself good...

[SerphV]

I agree with you... but if DE were to work on SOMA, then the other weapon guys will have something to say..

Then DE has to re-stat all the older weapons as well... unless they take that route...