Another Look At Focus Trees?

[illdemoteu]

So with this duviri stuff ive sorta heard about ive heard its gonna be operator based, will focus trees be looked at again cause im always seeing that maxed void radiance not gonna lie its always been annoying with any ability that as you upgrade it it saps more energy even though supposedly your getting better at using said ability, but mostly i just want the idea to be fleshed out a lot better as right now in my eyes its still just not what it could be. (could be wrong about duviri being mostly operator lead but id still like the trees to be fleshed out a lot more in my eyes)

[Voltage]

I would also like more nodes in general and removing the less used ones. It's a shame only a few abilities are used throughout the Focus system.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Voltage

[Xzorn]

They might get back to Focus in another year or so. Not really joking. They tend to do that.

Both Focus versions were somewhat lacking and poorly balanced as well, 3rd times the charm?

Personally I became disinterested in Focus when they made it primarily for Eidolon hunting instead of a proper Alternate Advancement system. It's fine to have Operator powers esp ones that can be woven into Warframe combat but most are far too weak to justify their use.

[illdemoteu]

Also forgot to add why can we still not just outright remove focus lenses from weapons frames while just breaking them? so that yall can keep ur profits

[el_chanis]

39 minutes ago, illdemoteu said:

Also forgot to add why can we still not just outright remove focus lenses from weapons frames while just breaking them? so that yall can keep ur profits

this is unnecesary. Given the absurd amount of grind the focus farming requires, you shouldn't be changing them anytime soon, so why bother keeping them when you are done with them? They are just like formas and polarities.

That being said, the focus tree is mostly useless because there is very little impact in general gameplay. It needs to be more focused on shared passives that apply to both operators and frames, that actually reflect the "school of thought" in the way of approaching combat. This is particularly important in the non-zenurik schools given how weak they are compared to the ever-present free energy (wich should be removed from focus, and get tied to mastery rank).

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

8 hours ago, el_chanis said:

this is unnecesary. Given the absurd amount of grind the focus farming requires, you shouldn't be changing them anytime soon, so why bother keeping them when you are done with them? They are just like formas and polarities.

That being said, the focus tree is mostly useless because there is very little impact in general gameplay. It needs to be more focused on shared passives that apply to both operators and frames, that actually reflect the "school of thought" in the way of approaching combat. This is particularly important in the non-zenurik schools given how weak they are compared to the ever-present free energy (wich should be removed from focus, and get tied to mastery rank).

he was asking for the option to take a lens off something, and put it on something els, not when ur totaly finished, because needing a forma and 250k credits on top of running the plains a to get 4 lenses and a larger eidolon lens is a pain in the ass

 

[el_chanis]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

 he was asking for the option to take a lens off something, and put it on something els, not when ur totaly finished, because needing a forma and 250k credits on top of running the plains a to get 4 lenses and a larger eidolon lens is a pain in the ass

  

as it should be, is endgame content that requires comitment. Is the ultimate forma-like customization in the game. Im surprised we haven't seen more content requiring lenses as build ingredient. There is no reason to keep lenses given the philosophy of the game in general, and focus tree in particular.

[DrakeWurrum]

Have to agree, but I think operator combat in general needs to be looked at. Our operators don't do anything with 1/2/3/4, nor do operators have any form of melee combat, likely due to the fact... that their mobility is absolutely terrible. Which is the number one problem with them, frankly. Their only form of mobility, Void Dash, interferes with their combat abilities (and is, itself, used offensively). Frankly, I think Blast, Cloak, and Dash shouldn't cost energy and should just be things we can do... and instead we can spend energy on abilities decided by our Focus school.

It's all fine and dandy for this game to be focused on the warframes, as the name suggests, but why implement operator combat if it's only going to have a limited use? =\

Edited July 15, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Zebiko]

I wish Focus was passive trees for the warframes mostly. Operator combat is bad, and almost never used except the forced mechanics that require them. The story with the operator is amazing, but combat is a no go for me.

[DrakeWurrum]

9 minutes ago, Warfoxzero said:

I wish Focus was passive trees for the warframes mostly. Operator combat is bad, and almost never used except the forced mechanics that require them. The story with the operator is amazing, but combat is a no go for me.

"Operator combat is bad, therefore it should be abandoned"
I disagree. Fix it.

Edited July 15, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Zebiko]

Just now, DrakeWurrum said:

"Operator combat is bad, there it should be abandoned"
I disagree. Fix it.

therefore* ....

[el_chanis]

45 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

"Operator combat is bad, therefore it should be abandoned"
I disagree. Fix it.

your disagreement isn't an argument. The truth is the game is called Warframe, not Operator. Forcing an unnatural type of gameplay to access an otherwise locked content is bad design. Operators should let WARFRAMES do things that previously couldnt. I don't mind having void travel as part of the lore or as a puzzle mechanic that interacts with the void or something, but to have to actualy figth with them when we have an unstoppable killing machine at our disposal is kinda stupid.

Think about the eidolon fight. It's only difficult because of the operator requirement. Nothing else. If we coulded somehow take it down without it, it would be a cakewalk. Something similar happens (to a FAR LESSER extent, i admit) with the profit-taker. It doesn't take a genious to realize that our primaries are better than the archwing guns, yet we a re forced to use them.

The Eidolon fight is meant as some sort of titanfall mechanic where you fight with both the pilot and the mecha. The problem is in titanfall, pilots are supersoldiers on their own, and the operators aren't. The result is a lackluster mechanic that feels completely random and unconnected with the general gameplay, when it shouldn't given the nature of the relationship between operators and frames.

[DrakeWurrum]

53 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

The problem is in titanfall, pilots are supersoldiers on their own, and the operators aren't. The result is a lackluster mechanic that feels completely random and unconnected with the general gameplay, when it shouldn't given the nature of the relationship between operators and frames.

Again: They should fix it.

That is my argument. It's something they added to the game with a strong attachment to lore, and the operators are supposed to be these insanely strong beings.

If they're not strong, and the mechanics are not fun and unrewarding, the solution isn't "remove it"

It's "fix it"

[Loza03]

20 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

The Eidolon fight is meant as some sort of titanfall mechanic where you fight with both the pilot and the mecha. The problem is in titanfall, pilots are supersoldiers on their own, and the operators aren't. The result is a lackluster mechanic that feels completely random and unconnected with the general gameplay, when it shouldn't given the nature of the relationship between operators and frames.

Whilst I loathe the 'game's called Warframe' argument with a burning passion, this much is a fair point. Operators need to be made a lot stronger than they are now, probably in a different way - probably leaning into the more mystic elements of their combat style. That, and maybe fix armour scaling/give Operators a way to actually deal with it with their regular attacks, especially given that Sentients, the thing they're supposedly poison to, have armour, and are thus basically immune to Operators at a high enough level.

 

 

Aside from that fairly mundane change, I'd kill for some way to get variations on the base abilities, that in turn change how your focus powers work. That'd dramatically increase the number of possible Operator loadouts, and inject some variety into the system. I'm thinking things like a fast, but expensive teleport instead of void dash that's faster and cheaper but doesn't take you nearly as far (making it a better combat tool than a mobility one), or alternatively, a Hildryn-like flight ability, that's a lot faster than Hildryn's and overall a good general mobility tool, better then the occasionally-janky and precise void dash.

On top of that, each of those variants comes with their own version of the equivalent power. Maybe Zenurik's teleport produces a burst of energy to nearby frames (much less than you can get from energising dash overall, even on a full tank of Operator energy) and a damaging pulse, whilst the flight has a small lightning storm beneath the Operator, as well as an energy restoring field that follows your Operator, but otherwise behaves in a similar manner to Energising Dash, but granting lower energy per second over a longer time, totaling to the same or a bit more energy. One's a quick burst that focuses more on combat effectiveness but can be supportive in a pinch, another's more support and utility focused, with the original still around.

Obviously, haven't exactly balanced this, and I don't know if these specific power ideas could be, I'm just illustrating the idea of variant versions of the core abilities.

[el_chanis]

29 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Whilst I loathe the 'game's called Warframe' argument with a burning passion, this much is a fair point. Operators need to be made a lot stronger than they are now, probably in a different way - probably leaning into the more mystic elements of their combat style. That, and maybe fix armour scaling/give Operators a way to actually deal with it with their regular attacks, especially given that Sentients, the thing they're supposedly poison to, have armour, and are thus basically immune to Operators at a high enough level.

  

  

 Aside from that fairly mundane change, I'd kill for some way to get variations on the base abilities, that in turn change how your focus powers work. That'd dramatically increase the number of possible Operator loadouts, and inject some variety into the system. I'm thinking things like a fast, but expensive teleport instead of void dash that's faster and cheaper but doesn't take you nearly as far (making it a better combat tool than a mobility one), or alternatively, a Hildryn-like flight ability, that's a lot faster than Hildryn's and overall a good general mobility tool, better then the occasionally-janky and precise void dash.

 On top of that, each of those variants comes with their own version of the equivalent power. Maybe Zenurik's teleport produces a burst of energy to nearby frames (much less than you can get from energising dash overall, even on a full tank of Operator energy) and a damaging pulse, whilst the flight has a small lightning storm beneath the Operator, as well as an energy restoring field that follows your Operator, but otherwise behaves in a similar manner to Energising Dash, but granting lower energy per second over a longer time, totaling to the same or a bit more energy. One's a quick burst that focuses more on combat effectiveness but can be supportive in a pinch, another's more support and utility focused, with the original still around.

Obviously, haven't exactly balanced this, and I don't know if these specific power ideas could be, I'm just illustrating the idea of variant versions of the core abilities.

The problem is there is no point in balancing the damage of Operators, because thats why we have warframes in the first place. The focus tree should reflect some sort of "piloting traning", giving a collection of buffs (for offense, defense, or utility) in small amounts that would allow us to diversify builds or simply make them stronger. Think about planes or tanks, at no point the pilot gets down and starts kicking and throwing stones at other vehicles (thats an accurate comparision of power level between frames and operators btw).

At no point when playing with operators i have felt like "Yeah, this is why i play this game". They are a gimmicky key for a gimmicky encounter, both with eidolons and Kuva farming. The operators should have a more "mystic" function, giving us access to special places in the void, or helping us detect special units with some sort of cloacking abilites, but combat itself should be totally out of the equation, because it will allways be worse than frames, both in power and fluidity.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

The problem is there is no point in balancing the damage of Operators, because thats why we have warframes in the first place. The focus tree should reflect some sort of "piloting traning", giving a collection of buffs (for offense, defense, or utility) in small amounts that would allow us to diversify builds or simply make them stronger. Think about planes or tanks, at no point the pilot gets down and starts kicking and throwing stones at other vehicles (thats an accurate comparision of power level between frames and operators btw).

As you yourself pointed out, that's why the Pilots in Titanfall have superpowers. I think the same should be done for Operators.

And, since the canonical power level difference between Operators and Warframes is hypothetically leaving Warframes completely in the dust, I find it entirely justifiable to actually make them their own force on their own.

5 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

At no point when playing with operators i have felt like "Yeah, this is why i play this game". They are a gimmicky key for a gimmicky encounter, both with eidolons and Kuva farming. The operators should have a more "mystic" function, giving us access to special places in the void, or helping us detect special units with some sort of cloacking abilites, but combat itself should be totally out of the equation, because it will allways be worse than frames, both in power and fluidity.

They've already received a great deal of improvement in terms of power, at least. They actually have a few niche 'builds' that make them a force to be reckoned with outside of Eidolons. I just want more of that. You're perfectly free to keep using your Operator as an energy dispensary.

And besides... some people just really, really like Operators, and want to play as them in normal gameplay. Limiting them just to gimmicks goes against that. Not to mention that's what they've been set up to be thus far, and set up to continue to be. Considering we can put plat into Focus, I doubt Duviri Paradox is stripping us of our Powers forever, especially since those powers include, well, using Warframes, and ever single cinematic quest thus far has expanded their abilities somehow (TSD introducing them, TWW introducing Operator mode and even the Sacrifice added Umbra, albeit being the least major addition), so if the trend continues, the same will likely happen with the New War.

[el_chanis]

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Again: They should fix it.

That is my argument. It's something they added to the game with a strong attachment to lore, and the operators are supposed to be these insanely strong beings.

If they're not strong, and the mechanics are not fun and unrewarding, the solution isn't "remove it"

It's "fix it"

they weren't insanely strong, they were insanely unstable. They are dangerous to the sentient via void poisoning, not because they can level a city like a warframe can. Any dax soldier coulded kill the tenno effortlessly.

And i never "remove it", i said "change it entirely". Operators are, OBVIUSLY, spiritual guidance for the frames. Lets deep into that lore, instead of forcing them into a worse version of the same (aka, fighting). As i said in my other post, no amount of kicking will take a tank pilot any closer to the powerlevel of said tank. We need more void interactions, and by my ancestors we need a rework in void missions (and rewards, like traces for instance). There is where operators can (and should) shine. Let the shooting be done by my beloved Tigris, not that crappy pew pew laser tag in the wrist of a teenager.

[el_chanis]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

As you yourself pointed out, that's why the Pilots in Titanfall have superpowers. I think the same should be done for Operators.

 

And i don't. boohoo

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

 And, since the canonical power level difference between Operators and Warframes is hypothetically leaving Warframes completely in the dust, I find it entirely justifiable to actually make them their own force on their own.

Lol, no. Check again. Nowhere in the lore is pointed out that they are superpowerfull. Its only stated that they couldn't control their power, as a military force, they were barely above a regular grineer soldier. They were usefull not for having large amounts of power, but because their power was void-based, wich, oh casualities, was super effective vs sentients. Remember that before the war within they couldn't even WALK.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

They've already received a great deal of improvement in terms of power, at least. They actually have a few niche 'builds' that make them a force to be reckoned with outside of Eidolons. I just want more of that. You're perfectly free to keep using your Operator as an energy dispensary.

I couldn't care less how they can be used. I care how they MUST and SHOULD be used. As it is right now, their best implementation, is when they are not used at all.  The eidolon fight has a VERY artificial "invulnerability phase", and the kuva guards are inmune to damage just because. Both instances are quite badly designed. As how they should be... well, i already explained this. They should be a key to void-related puzzles and enemies, never as a combat tool aside from passive supporting.

I still don't see how getting a worse combat mechanic than the one we already have will help to the game's evolution and grow. Even less if it's forced (like with eidolons and kuva).

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, el_chanis said:

And i don't. boohoo

What a rational, reasoned argument, that deconstructs my points and discusses why the Operators cannot be an element of the game's combat system.

2 hours ago, el_chanis said:

Lol, no. Check again. Nowhere in the lore is pointed out that they are superpowerfull. Its only stated that they couldn't control their power, as a military force, they were barely above a regular grineer soldier. They were usefull not for having large amounts of power, but because their power was void-based, wich, oh casualities, was super effective vs sentients. Remember that before the war within they couldn't even WALK.

"Within your fragile Tenno body is the most powerful force in the known universe". And this is by Orokin standards, who could literally terraform Venus into a relative paradise to what it is now and give Pluto an atmosphere and earthlike gravity. Not to mention this line is said by the Lotus, who can hide an entire celestial body. Compared to, say the Destiny universe And when you look at the existing void powers, Tenno are OP as hell. Physics and material manipulation, pyro and electrokinesis and healing factor. Hell, Zenurik implies they have chronokinesis and Naramon shows they have ESP. They just can't currently use all of these powers and keep control over them (right now at least). But they are referred to as 'Devils' and 'Demons' for a reason.

Also, you point out their muscle atrophy after the Second Dream, but remember that the whole point of the War Within is them no longer being a child, no longer being dependent. Warframe's a coming-of-age story. From a helpless child that can't survive on their own to a warrior in their own right. Infant (pre-second dream), child (TSD), teen (TWW), leaving home (Apostasy Prologue) and gaining independence of their own (The Sacrifice).  

3 hours ago, el_chanis said:

I couldn't care less how they can be used. I care how they MUST and SHOULD be used. As it is right now, their best implementation, is when they are not used at all.  The eidolon fight has a VERY artificial "invulnerability phase", and the kuva guards are inmune to damage just because. Both instances are quite badly designed. As how they should be... well, i already explained this. They should be a key to void-related puzzles and enemies, never as a combat tool aside from passive supporting.

So let me get this straight. You don't like them being a 'key' to combat puzzles (aka the guardians and Eidolons), but that's the only role you want them to play?

It's more evident that, if they're to be anything other than just a gimmick, they should be given the ability to stand on their own. Also taking into account the previously-mentioned fact that it's the course the story is already on, and has been pretty much since the War Within.

[el_chanis]

 

9 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

What a rational, reasoned argument, that deconstructs my points and discusses why the Operators cannot be an element of the game's combat system.

You give no point aside from "i want them as supersoldiers", what you expected? Provide some reasoning, and you will get some. Give none, and none you will get.

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

"Within your fragile Tenno body is the most powerful force in the known universe"

I would like to put some emphasis in FRAGILE. Like one shoted from a stray bullet fragile. If it weren't for the frames (wich can CHANNEL that power) operartors would be utterly useless.

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

So let me get this straight. You don't like them being a 'key' to combat puzzles (aka the guardians and Eidolons), but that's the only role you want them to play?

I want them to function like the Magic Mirror in A Link to the Past, or the mask of shadows in Darksiders. We need more Void related enemies, and thats exactly the way to get them. We should be able to scout for them, and transport our frame there (or force them into our dimension) and settle the fight the old good way. Also we can get puzzles like the lua spy missions meant exclusively for operators. I don't mind using the operator as a kuva-killer, it makes sense, you can't shoot the kuva cloud, but not as an opener for the guards, because it doesn't really make any sense.

Aside from that, the focus tree need to actually focus. As it is right now, it provides very little in terms of gameplay, for both the frames (except for zenurik, wich is broken), or the operator, and i will allways prefer a more support oriented scheme, rather than a straight inferior and unpolished combat system.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, el_chanis said:

You give no point aside from "i want them as supersoldiers", what you expected? Provide some reasoning, and you will get some. Give none, and none you will get.

I've already given the reasons. It adds to the variety of gameplay and possible build options and it matches the gameplay with the themes of the story.

4 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

I would like to put some emphasis in FRAGILE. Like one shoted from a stray bullet fragile. If it weren't for the frames (wich can CHANNEL that power) operartors would be utterly useless.

Frames don't channel Operator powers, past maybe their mobility systems and transference (and maybe channelling or revives). The Sacrifice reveals, both through Umbra and through the Vitruvian, that the Warframes are fully-armed and capable of using their powers on their own. How else could Umbra use his Exalted Umbra Blade during the Umbra vs Operator fight?

8 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

I want them to function like the Magic Mirror in A Link to the Past, or the mask of shadows in Darksiders. We need more Void related enemies, and thats exactly the way to get them. We should be able to scout for them, and transport our frame there (or force them into our dimension) and settle the fight the old good way. Also we can get puzzles like the lua spy missions meant exclusively for operators. I don't mind using the operator as a kuva-killer, it makes sense, you can't shoot the kuva cloud, but not as an opener for the guards, because it doesn't really make any sense.

You do realise that scouting and finding a void enemy with the Operator then using your frame to kill them is basically the same thing mechanically as revealing an Eidolon or Kuva Guardian's weak spot then killing them with the Warframe, right?

Enemy in the area - use Operator to make enemy vulnerable - use Warframe.

22 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

Aside from that, the focus tree need to actually focus. As it is right now, it provides very little in terms of gameplay, for both the frames (except for zenurik, wich is broken), or the operator, and i will allways prefer a more support oriented scheme, rather than a straight inferior and unpolished combat system.

The Focus trees needing considerable improvement is something I agree with. They do have some use (albeit use that's heavily restricted by armour scaling) but they're rigid. That's why I suggested the system I did.

The Operators being able to be more supportive and be more self-reliant are not mutually exclusive. Both require that they aren't just a gimmick to open doors or enemies.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I use my operator frequently in missions. Between Void Dashing for mobility, Void Mode for stealth/reviving/hacking, and my Amp to take out Nullifiers.

I've got all but 2 Waybounds unlocked so I've had pretty extensive experience with Focus schools. I agree that the "increasing costs over time per rank" abilities for Void Mode are stupid. It makes it more appealing to keep them at minimum rank or not put focus into them at all. All of the badly scaling damage based nodes are a waste of points as well. 

We're better off reworking or replacing those, whenever the next Focus overhaul makes it in. Hopefully that comes with an overhaul to Tridolon as well.

[Avienas]

On 2019-07-15 at 9:47 AM, el_chanis said:

this is unnecesary. Given the absurd amount of grind the focus farming requires, you shouldn't be changing them anytime soon, so why bother keeping them when you are done with them? They are just like formas and polarities.

That being said, the focus tree is mostly useless because there is very little impact in general gameplay. It needs to be more focused on shared passives that apply to both operators and frames, that actually reflect the "school of thought" in the way of approaching combat. This is particularly important in the non-zenurik schools given how weak they are compared to the ever-present free energy (wich should be removed from focus, and get tied to mastery rank).

In general most are just gimmick fill ins which might be useful if it was for LOW LEVEL players or doing another make your own fun by doing operator only missions by using said abilities, but thats just nit picking and you have to be rather late-mid gamish player to be able to effectively focus farm. AKA defeating the purpose of the gimmickie abilities.

Honestly they need to generalize it, remove focus lenses altogether and just have it where the amount of focus is just gained collectively and buff the overall gain rate of focus. Make it something more back-seat pile up as you do stuff in general, not have to outright do adaro stealth focus, ESO or farm eidolons to get focus in general. But if focus shards went away on eidolons, it would just become Arcane farm and E-peen measuring contest after you got a decent amp together if you did not pick most of your parts from fortuna.

P.S. even then, Amps are in general, are not that useful at all since we have yet to get things like maybe corrosive modifiers to make amps into something worthwhile like a situational armor stripper back up gun if we really need something like that. Certainly would dig a secondary fire part/ability to deploy decoys for easy mob gathering too. :/

EXCLUDING waybound abilities which mostly serves to make your operator less useless, these pretty much make up the general useful stuff on focus trees

• Zenurik`s Energy Dash cause easy 150 en regen & energy bonus regen whenever you pick up orb
• Vazarin`s Affinity range bonus cause easier hydron grind & instant rezzes when you rather not be a sitting duck for more then 2 seconds.

1. Naramon`s only serves as a way to extend combo decay on melee, which we have Drifting contact for blood rush builds for that and to speed up focus gains, Even old naramon at least had SOME epic-ness with the whole stealth procs via critting on melees if i recall?
2. Madurai gives neglectable dmg boons and the only reason you want void strike is to do a DBZ episode for a good 5~20 mins before one shotting a sortie boss (or at least one shot it thru alot of tedious ness), otherwise its just speed up the focus/arcane farm on dons
3. Unairu`s wisp is pretty much the only worthwhile thing and thats just for: Use it for eidolon speed focus farming

Any other dashes/blasts pretty much are silly gimmicks that dont fit where they go (attractor on a melee attack for example) with only maybe X certain abilities could be super situational, useful if you want to disarm or strip armor off a chunkie high level enemy but forgot to bring corrosive guns.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Avienas

[Avienas]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I wouldn't mind either another look or a reset.. the only thing that would make me angry would be if they add more ways.. because I after years finished 4/5 MOSTLY without direct farming, and I really wouldn't want to re-buy all the lenses I destroyed + relvl previously finished trees.. 😕

Honestly because i am a bored person i was half tempted to finish up leveling the last 2 dash skills of naramon and the last 2 dashes of unairu and whatever was left on void blast for naramon. Only just recently capped the voltaic shock ball from zenurik, now remembering WHY i never maxed it, it looks like a tiny electric version of Ember`s fireball, puny and does not feel like it would give any actual impact. Bloody just let us throw out a miniture magnetic field projectile on void blast that gurantees magnetic procs and draws in enemies for cripes sake instead! Least then by having operators able to easy proc magnetic effects, we could have a nice anti-corpus measure since magnetic procs by default chunks a shield by 75% (Even if its only for 4 seconds) which combined with the +60% void blast radius & the void mode draw in, could be great for getting a mob together then dunk them with a good AoE after purging most of the shields, though some status proc effects need to last longer, like maybe 6 or 8 seconds for magnetic instead.

Honestly, There is plenty of potential for operators, but they need to have IMPACTFUL abilities that are preferably VERY unique in gameplay terms, especially ones that would make great use thru having on the operator that a warframe cannot already do itself.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Avienas

[Loza03]

12 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Honestly because i am a bored person i was half tempted to finish up leveling the last 2 dash skills of naramon and the last 2 dashes of unairu and whatever was left on void blast for naramon. Only just recently capped the voltaic shock ball from zenurik, now remembering WHY i never maxed it, it looks like a tiny electric version of Ember`s fireball, puny and does not feel like it would give any actual impact. Bloody just let us throw out a miniture magnetic field projectile on void blast that gurantees magnetic procs and draws in enemies for cripes sake instead! Least then by having operators able to easy proc magnetic effects, we could have a nice anti-corpus measure since magnetic procs by default chunks a shield by 75% (Even if its only for 4 seconds) which combined with the +60% void blast radius & the void mode draw in, could be great for getting a mob together then dunk them with a good AoE after purging most of the shields, though some status proc effects need to last longer, like maybe 6 or 8 seconds for magnetic instead.

Honestly, There is plenty of potential for operators, but they need to have IMPACTFUL abilities that are preferably VERY unique in gameplay terms, especially ones that would make great use thru having on the operator that a warframe cannot already do itself.

Well, Zenurik already has the ability to draw enemies in, so that specifically  is probably not too useful.

But I agree. Operators need more powers, and what there is should be more meaningful. Blazing dash, for example, leaves a trail of fire behind. It looks cool and is... not too terrible against Corpus, but, seriously, it's magic fire! Have it melt through armour, or CC enemies if they even touch it by setting them ablaze, or have enemies that do die to it spread the flames, creating chain reaction. These aren't finely tuned, technologically-generated Warframe powers, they're the arcane might of the void.

 

In  regards to your previous post about Focus, I think that the Focus system is good in theory, but not as the core power progression system. The grind is pretty intensive for fairly minimal rewards because all the focus abilities are basically just add-ons most of the time, instead of improvements to the core Operator gameplay.

A more rewarding system might be a twofold one - the five schools of Focus and a core progression curve, which waybounds get retied to as more general stat buffs in a more granular sense than what we have now. The core system does still take a fairly intensive grind, but it's more rewarding as the power ups come along more logically, and maybe alongside that, new core abilities like I mentioned in a previous post here. This could be accessed by affinity gained through using your Operator, and all their powers.  It makes sense that, for their own powers, they'd improve them by using them, right? Focus, then becomes an auxiliary grind for enhancements, which is much better suited to a system like Focus.

 

Basically, just like unlocking the powers and stats of a Warframe and then altering and augmenting them with mods are two different systems, unlocking and upgrading the powers and stats of the Operator and altering those powers to suit specific needs or builds are two different systems.