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(XB1)Predator Lupus1

How to change revenant and possibly wisp

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Ok look. I know most of you put there want revenant to change and want wisp to stay the same and that's ok. Now onto how revenant should be changed. Let's start with his 1 it should be changed to have the acolyte count scale off of power strength, for them to be invunrable for 60 seconds at base and after the timer runs out they all die but the damage from the team and other enemies be added into the geysers and for the geyser range to be increased to around 10 metres and for them to retain their damage and to have pin point accuracy. His two should be changed so that it puts him into an invunrable state for thirty seconds and after the timer runs out he gets a 90% damage reduction to the elements that he was hit with whilst invunrable. His three should be like a teralyst/gantulyst/hydrolyst stomp depending on how the person has put his energy colour. His four should be that laser attack that the sentient battlyst prism and deals the same amount of damage.

Wisp is up to you guys

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no

just no

If I want change it better be Vauban or Titania

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These days I feel like talking to forums only on posts that ask a change on Revenant or Limbo ..
Can you leave my darlings alone please <. < ?
There is no problem with Revenant. No problem that makes it a priority.
At any level, on any type of mission, I finish the game with the best score of the team, most often without taking any damage.
I really don't know how you do to complain about Revenant, really ..
it gets sad u.u

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1 hour ago, Sir_Carl said:

no

just no

If I want change it better be Vauban or Titania

This.. Vauban need rework like our Monkey

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1 hour ago, Sir_Carl said:

no

just no

If I want change it better be Vauban or Titania

 

6 minutes ago, Gruiz said:

This.. Vauban need rework like our Monkey

 

Saying "I want X to be reworked/changed" doesn't exclude anything else from ever being reworked/changed, sure you can make an argument on what should take priority, but in general DE seems random on reworks and frame changes so it doesn't really matter.

 

19 minutes ago, Azvalk said:

These days I feel like talking to forums only on posts that ask a change on Revenant or Limbo ..
Can you leave my darlings alone please <. < ?
There is no problem with Revenant. No problem that makes it a priority.
At any level, on any type of mission, I finish the game with the best score of the team, most often without taking any damage.
I really don't know how you do to complain about Revenant, really ..
it gets sad u.u

While I do agree that issues he has shouldn't take priority over frames with outdated kits, he def has some problems that could be addressed with some changes.

And the mission scores don't really matter at all except for epeen points and detecting leechers sometimes, since for example if a Saryn/Mesa go to an interception and kill most enemies they're bound to get most kills and damage over anyone who took CC frames, but interception is 90% make sure the enemies don't take points and 10% kill everything afterwards, so the CC part of the team could have done way more, but that isn't reflected at all in the end mission scores.

It wouldn't matter if you start taking damage and no longer see 0% damage taken unless you yourself put some weird value on that

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)Predator Lupus1 said:

Ok look. I know most of you put there want revenant to change and want wisp to stay the same and that's ok. Now onto how revenant should be changed. Let's start with his 1 it should be changed to have the acolyte count scale off of power strength, for them to be invunrable for 60 seconds at base and after the timer runs out they all die but the damage from the team and other enemies be added into the geysers and for the geyser range to be increased to around 10 metres and for them to retain their damage and to have pin point accuracy. His two should be changed so that it puts him into an invunrable state for thirty seconds and after the timer runs out he gets a 90% damage reduction to the elements that he was hit with whilst invunrable. His three should be like a teralyst/gantulyst/hydrolyst stomp depending on how the person has put his energy colour. His four should be that laser attack that the sentient battlyst prism and deals the same amount of damage.

I've been working on how to change revenant for a while and while my last thread said to make them invulnerable I'm revising that since it kinda makes his 4 less valuable, in the status portion at least. 

About the "geysers" I'm assuming you mean the projectiles they fire? Sine the pillars as DE calls them don't have a real form of accuracy, they're just AoE.

As for the Mesmer Skin suggestion, I was on board until I saw that it's basically Harrows 4/ maybe Wukongs new defy, but you get Adaptation instead. The main issue I have with that is that Adaptation is inconsistent and depending on if it has a cooldown (and how long it would be)  or if you can recast it, it would just leave you open to 100% damage of some damage types.

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)Predator Lupus1 said:

Wisp is up to you guys

I don't get the point of this part, there's an entire Wisp feedback thread still pinned that likely has a lot of suggestions.

 

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Posted (edited)

He wants nerf Wisp? I don't understand.

Edited by zhellon

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Posted (edited)

How about change his passive and overshields to reflect how Revenant players play in practice? He practically has an invisible passive. His overshields don't help him very much either.

His Mesmer Skin doesn't need a change unless DE considers it overpowered! Some people complain that he has a brief moment of vulnerability, though it's very easy to work around that limitation. What about that? 

Replacing Revenant's 3 to be like a Teralyst stomp would ruin him! That's his most powerful skill! You can kill almost any enemy with it no matter what level! The gimmicky effect that gives allies 1 Mesmer Skin stack should probably change.

His 4 already does adaptive damage. Why would you want it to be Battalysts's attack?  What about changing it to not destroy pillars? Why does it return absorbed damage when Revenant players keep Mesmer Skin up 100% of the time?

EDIT: I wouldn't touch his 1 either! At lower levels, it's less useful in team play, but it does protect team mates when enemies are actually hard to kill! It safely allows team mates to kill hard-to-kill stuff while drawing fire away from team mates. Also, Revenant needs it to use his 3 most effectively.

Edited by nslay
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Posted (edited)

The only thing I'd really change on Revenant is decreasing the initial drain on Dance Macabre, similar to how Hysteria drains. You could also double the status chance on the enhanced version, since at the moment at high level you will burn much more energy killing armored enemies using the enhanced version.

Edited by Neightrix

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Gonna copy/paste what i wrote a while back, but this is what i'd change about revenant :

Mesmer skin : 

  • Mesmer skin only activates to prevent damage to revenant's health. shields, however, have no such protection. What this essentially means is that all of a sudden, every single part of your kit that interacted with / generated shields goes from irrelevant to vitally important. Because your charges are now gated behind your shields (which are the second highest behind hildryn, or third if you count harrow), they are no longer susceptible to instant removal due to constant gunfire. However, should a massively powerful enemy chew through your shields in half a second, the ability will still be just as powerful as it ever was, negating all damage and simply removing a charge.
  • Mesmer skin's casting cost is increased to 75. To compensate for this significant increase in power, the cost of such an ability would have to be appropriately balanced, with 75 being (in my opinion) a fair trade.
  • Base number of charges is reduced to 4/5. again, another way to prevent the ability from becoming oppressively strong.

Enthrall :

  • Fixing the many bugs that afflict it is paramount, mainly the inconsistency in pillar ''spawning'' and the possibility of ''invincible thralls'' appearing.
  • Damage type is changed from pillar and puncture to adaptive. The reason revenant's pillars are currently unable to harm anything beyond level 50 is due mainly to their damage type. Revenant, as the sentient / eidolon warframe, is the proprietor of the only instance of adaptive damage in the entire game, with it currently being only on his 4. As such, allowing his 1 to deal damage i  the same manner would not only make it scale far more effectively, but would also give it a lot more eidolon ''flair'' than it currently does.
  • When you or your allies kill thralls, you're refunded energy equal to half of enthralls modded cost. would make them dying left and right an actual upside instead of a constant annoyance.
  • Increase the amount of overshields given by the drop to 150 (or allow it to be affected by strength). As you'll now constantly gain and lost shields from a multitude of fronts, making the ''harder to access'' sources more effective would be welcome.
  • Make the casting faster. pretty self-explanatory.

Passive :

  • Changed entirely; is now identical to adaptation, but caps at 50% instead of 90%. Because mesmer skin is now protected by shields, and because you have multiple ways to acquire them, it would only make sense for the shields themselves to be more potent, right ? on top of that, being the sentient / eidolon warframe would make revenant the ideal candidate for such a passive, as it would fit him both in gameplay AND in flavor. could stack with the regular version to reach 95%.

Reave :

  • Only the ''default'' variant : Reaving through an enemy now has a virulence-like ''energy return'' effect. Reaving through a normal enemy refunds a quarter of the casting cost, while reaving through a thrall returns half. is determined by power efficiency. This would solve the problem of reave only being useful when combined with 1 or 4, while making it's synergy with enthrall even more potent. however, due to this effect only appearing on the ''neutral'' variant, you wouldn't be able to spin around in your 4 while constantly replenishing energy
  • Blinding reave : enemies blinded by the ability can be enthralled at no energy cost. This augment currently has little to no interaction with the rest of revenant's kit. Giving it this ''gambit'' effect would make you pay a greater initial amount, while giving you a greater potential payoff should you enthrall more than 2 foes.
  • Make it cast faster, as it's currently way too slow.
 
Danse  Macabre :
  • The ''boosted'' variant now costs 50% more than the regular version, as opposed to 100% more. let's be honest here, paying upwards of 40 energy every second to become a discount mesa is simply not going to be worth it. And while 30 would still be outrageous, it wouldn't be nearly as crippling as 40, which borders on the unusable.
  • Only the ''boosted'' variant can destroy the energy pillars. As stated before, the idea of destroying your own resources, while interesting, is something that you need to be able to control and manage, and this change would do just that.
  • Danse Macabre's status chance is affected by power strength. Would help the ability scale better into very high level missions, where it begins to struggle. Besides, the still massively high costs would balance out this increase in power, resulting in a stronger (but fair) ability.

Wisp just needs her 4's tick wave to be significantly higher.

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Posted (edited)

But if shields gate Mesmer Skin, we largely lose the stun and reflected damage/status aspect. Then Thralls are no longer free after they hit you.

It's a neat idea to add meaning to his passive and shields but it needs more tweaking in my opinion.

Also, I'm almost always at 100% energy with 60% efficiency in missions. It is a complete myth that Danse Macabre is too expensive. Most enemies are wiped instantly negating the need to channel longer than a few seconds. When enemies are harder to kill, you are not using Danse Macabre anymore because it makes you very vulnerable for an extended period of time.

Edited by nslay
phone auto spell check is bad

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22 minutes ago, nslay said:

But if shields gate Mesmer Skin, we largely lose the stun and reflected damage/status aspect. Then Thralls are no longer free after they hit you.

It's a neat idea to add meaning to his passive and shields but it needs more tweaking in my opinion.

The status and damage reflect both don't matter at all

Enemy on Enemy damage is negligible without a massive modifier which he doesn't offer

Status reflect doesn't matter either since Mesmer Skin offers status immunity so long as it's active, as shown by standing in toxin clouds, despite still taking toxin damage and not having any target to deflect to the status effect is still not proc'd. 

 

The free Enthrall cast is kinda take it or leave it, while its his only real synergy. It's pretty meh since Enthrall doesn't cost that much. (I don't count the 3-1 as "synergy" because the UI is misleading for it)

If you don't wanna leave it, a suggestion I just thought up would be to have the (free Enthrall) sleep be a radial AoE when his shields go down and a charge is used. (just with limited AoE.

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23 minutes ago, nslay said:

But if shields gate Mesmer Skin, we largely lose the stun and reflected damage/status aspect. Then Thralls are no longer free after they hit you.

Sure, you lose the ability to constantly stun enemies and get free casts of 1. But do you know what you get to compensate ?

  • Usable health and shields, making reave an actually good ability. On top of that, danse macabre's retaliation effect, which should theoretically allow his 4 to scale much better, would become relevant.
  • you'd still get the stun, but only if enemies get past your shields, which, while harder thanks to adaptation, would still be possible.
  • the overshields that gate mesmer skin become useful
  • mesmer skin itself becomes a lot less brittle while retaining its infinite scaling, as stacks will no longer disappear due to weak enemy fire. however, should a bombard hit you for 50k damage, it'll be just as good as ever!
  • finally, if thralls always refund a portion of your energy (which they should), getting casts for free shouldn't be as easy to access, considering how it then becomes a free upside instead of a potential full refund.
31 minutes ago, nslay said:

Also, I'm almost always at 100% energy with 60% efficiency in missions. It is a complete myth that Danse Macabre is too expensive. Most enemies are wiped instantly negating the need to channel longer than a few seconds. When enemies are harder to kill, you are not using Danse Macabre anymore because it makes you very vulnerable for an extended period of time.

Sorry, but i really can't agree with that one.

  • Sure, you can keep the regular version at 20, that's fine. you know what isn't ? 40 energy for the boosted version. that's almost THREE TIMES what peacemakers cost, which is just... not okay!
  • if the retaliation effect becomes relevant (which it would if mesmer skin was changed), you'll want to use it a hell of a lot more, as it'll scale way better.
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The status reflect is nice. The stun matters a lot. It takes an enemy out of the fight. That's one less enemy shooting at you.

I spend more energy casting Enthrall without the Mesmer Skin synergy than I do on Danse Macabre. On top of that, you cast Reave to kill those Thralls which adds to the energy cost. Reave is already expensive and you need to use it with Enthrall. The free Enthrall is very nice!

Don't underestimate Mesmer Skin's stun or the free Enthrall that comes with it. You will use these more when enemies are hard to kill.  

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnLemon123 said:

Sorry, but i really can't agree with that one.

  • Sure, you can keep the regular version at 20, that's fine. you know what isn't ? 40 energy for the boosted version. that's almost THREE TIMES what peacemakers cost, which is just... not okay!
  • if the retaliation effect becomes relevant (which it would if mesmer skin was changed), you'll want to use it a hell of a lot more, as it'll scale way better.

Yeah? I use the boosted version. I still almost always have 100% energy in missions. This is a non-issue in my opinion. If you want to use a completely different frame as a justification:  Mesa's Peace Maker doesn't do adaptive damage and can't teleport anywhere instantly. But I don't care about Mesa's Peace Maker.

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4 hours ago, Azvalk said:

These days I feel like talking to forums only on posts that ask a change on Revenant or Limbo ..
Can you leave my darlings alone please <. < ?
There is no problem with Revenant. No problem that makes it a priority.
At any level, on any type of mission, I finish the game with the best score of the team, most often without taking any damage.
I really don't know how you do to complain about Revenant, really ..
it gets sad u.u

Mesmer skin is barely a decent tank ability and danse can nuke low levels but they carry the rest of his kit hard.You could do alot better with rhino or chroma in levels that matter and they have arguably better kits.

All in all, revs biggest problem is that the sentient part of his concept was wasted and not done very well. He is basically a glorified vomvalyst and doesn't take any of the best parts of other sentients or very badly takes them. Which should be easy since it's just adaptation and lasers, seemingly in that order of importance. Grendel might be better in atleast the former regard depending on how true the whole "kirby frame" thing is. And I think wisp practically does the laser thing better too, if sol gate had a better tick rate then it'd be absolutely better.

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12 minutes ago, JohnLemon123 said:

Sure, you lose the ability to constantly stun enemies and get free casts of 1. But do you know what you get to compensate ?

  • Usable health and shields, making reave an actually good ability. On top of that, danse macabre's retaliation effect, which should theoretically allow his 4 to scale much better, would become relevant.
  • you'd still get the stun, but only if enemies get past your shields, which, while harder thanks to adaptation, would still be possible.
  • the overshields that gate mesmer skin become useful
  • mesmer skin itself becomes a lot less brittle while retaining its infinite scaling, as stacks will no longer disappear due to weak enemy fire. however, should a bombard hit you for 50k damage, it'll be just as good as ever!
  • finally, if thralls always refund a portion of your energy (which they should), getting casts for free shouldn't be as easy to access, considering how it then becomes a free upside instead of a potential full refund.

While I agree that it makes Mesmer Skin less brittle, the lost guaranteed stun proc and free Enthrall cast in addition to higher casting cost (think Index) renders this version of Mesmer Skin far worse than it already is. I think it adds purpose to overshields and his current passive, but that's it. Danse Macabre will also be able to use the absorbed damage, but still won't scale. It will either be a quick cast to kill everything in the area at lower levels, or forgotten because you can't  kill anything fast enough while extremely vulnerable.

On top of that, in practice, the current Mesmer Skin works amazingly well! Why does it matter that his shields and health have "meaning"?

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4 hours ago, KenthNisshoku said:

both of these frames don't need any changes...

Oh no trust me. Revenant needs some major changes. Not only does he underperform compared to other frames, he’s abilities lack any sense of flow with their synergies and 3/4 of them aren’t even Eidolon or sentient powers.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Oh no trust me. Revenant needs some major changes. Not only does he underperform compared to other frames, he’s abilities lack any sense of flow with their synergies and 3/4 of them aren’t even Eidolon or sentient powers.

Just because you have trouble playing him does not mean he underperforms.

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Just now, nslay said:

Just because you have trouble playing him does not mean he underperforms.

Just because you accuse someone of not knowing how a frame works doesn’t mean you’re right.

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Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just because you accuse someone of not knowing how a frame works doesn’t mean you’re right.

You and many others imagine problems with him that don't actually exist. It's evident that you don't know how to play him.

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Just now, nslay said:

You and many others imagine problems with him that don't actually exist. It's evident that you don't know how to play him.

Or maybe you’re just imagining that those problems don’t exist.

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Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Or maybe you’re just imagining that those problems don’t exist.

How can I imagine there aren't problems when I have hundreds of hours with him? When wiki warriors imagine problems with Revenant, I even tell them how to play Revenant in those scenarios, but they continue spout the same ignorant nonsense.

See, I haven't made Nidus as tanky as Revenant. I am brand new to Nidus. Do you see me disputing his #1 rank in Ranking of Tanks thread? Do you see me making claims about how bad Nidus when I don't have any experience with him?

I know what I know and what I don't know. And I don't anything about Nidus... So I don't go around making claims about Nidus. I even asked once about Nidus.

You have admitted you don't play Revenant and that you won't play him for more than 5 minutes. You also routinely make claims about him that don't match  experience with him. It's clear that you don't know how to play him. These are all the traits of a know-it-all.

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13 hours ago, zhellon said:

He wants nerf Wisp? I don't understand.

No I don't 

By change I mean improve the kit not nerf it because let's be honest no one wants wisp to die. Look I'm pitching ideas wisp as I said should be decided by the community and pablo even though she's not in a bad place somethings feel wonky. Fix her passive so that it doesn't disappear when you fire a silenced gun. Make it so that her shock mote stuns enemies consecutively(multiple times) up to 10 seconds which would better her shock mote. Make it so that her 3 has a type of diminishing return aspect to it, so say that you kill the first enemy affected by it the value scales for the little orb that is spawned then if it kills another enemy the damage is reduced by 5% and then so on and so forth. Her four either needs a damage buff or an increase to the damage tick count. 

8 hours ago, nslay said:

How can I imagine there aren't problems when I have hundreds of hours with him? When wiki warriors imagine problems with Revenant, I even tell them how to play Revenant in those scenarios, but they continue spout the same ignorant nonsense.

See, I haven't made Nidus as tanky as Revenant. I am brand new to Nidus. Do you see me disputing his #1 rank in Ranking of Tanks thread? Do you see me making claims about how bad Nidus when I don't have any experience with him?

I know what I know and what I don't know. And I don't anything about Nidus... So I don't go around making claims about Nidus. I even asked once about Nidus.

You have admitted you don't play Revenant and that you won't play him for more than 5 minutes. You also routinely make claims about him that don't match  experience with him. It's clear that you don't know how to play him. These are all the traits of a know-it-all.

You calm down  and again these are just pitches for revenant. Don't quote me I take the opion of framess in community and youtubers into account and do keep in mind they most likely have them. So calm down accept others opinions and move on with life.     

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Posted (edited)

PSA: I am  mastery rank 11 with umbra and the paracesis. So if you think I'm some noob who doesn't know how frames work you are sorely miskaten.

Edited by (XB1)Predator Lupus1
Needed a PSA

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