Warframe Dual Energy, and Everything Wrong (part 1, 20 frames)

[Fluffysbeans]

All frames tested are the prime variants, unless specified otherwise or if a prime does not exist. Deluxe skins receive special notes if they need it.
Tested in update 25, build 25.3.2.1

Colors used: Halloween column 1, row 9 and Dojo, column 5, row 11

My main problem: I run the same 3 color schemes across every frame I own. 

Color set A is primarily white, secondary dark purple, tertiary lavender, accents gold, and energy mid purple. 
When dual energy was added, I made my secondary a nearly neon yellow, and it blended into a really cool gradient.

Spoiler

When emissives and energy were split into a total of 4 channels, everything fell apart, and all my blends were now a muddy orange, because channel order matters where energy is concerned.

Spoiler

Since the fix, what used to be my first slot primary energy (purple), is now sequestered to my second slot, or I get that orange mess. 
My secondary (yellow) is now in the first slot, which the game now things of as the primary slot, even though it's layered underneath the second slot.

The ideal color combination is Halloween yellow as a strip inside of Dojo purple.
The ideal main color when no blending is present is Dojo purple, as that was my original primary color before the dual energy update.
For every set, I'm aiming for as close to the original dual energy color update (not the energy/emissive split) as possible.
If I can't get an ability to its ideal, I'll detail how it can be fixed.

From here on, I'm referring to yellow as S (secondary), purple as P (primary).
Slots are read from left to right, so SP means yellow in the first slot, purple in the second.
Primary is typically in the second slot, but becomes the main body of the energy effect, while the secondary usually is a strip or effect inside that main body.

If I say SP, I mean this order.


If I say PS, I mean this.

When I talk below in the list about a "shroud" I mean this effect:

Correct

Spoiler

Incorrect

Spoiler

General takeaway: All channels have been reversed, with the pre-split primary now being stuck in the secondary slot. 
Some skills entirely don't use the secondary channel, meaning that the old secondary color is now the only visible color. (what used to be PS is now just S)
Ideally, all energy effects should have dual channels, there shouldn't be any abilities that only use 1. 
When I suggest a swap to only using the other color, that's only because I'm not sure how DE will go about fixing this. Preferably all effects will have a blend.

Small extra gripe: There is no button to simply swap the first and second slots within a pairing. 
You have to manually select both colors for the opposite slot instead of just being able to flip them to test.
Points at this: 

Another button should be added to auto-fill the secondary slot with the already selected primary slot for people who don't want to deal with all this nonsense, and just want to use one energy color. This shouldn't be necessary, but a lot of frames have odd purple channels hiding in the secondary slot (looking at you, Nekros Irkalla).

Ash

Spoiler

Ability 1: Color 1 is interior strip, color 2 is the outer aura. Ideal combo is SP.
Ability 2: Ash becomes color 1, main cloud color is purely 1, secondary cloud interior is 1, exterior is 2. Ideal is SP, but where Ash's main body uses color 2 (see Loki, ability 2, for a comparison).
Ability 3: Teleporting cloud is color 1, small energy swirls are color 2, energy trail behind Ash is interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP, but with the cloud using color 2.
Ability 4: Clones are all wrong, they show up as Loki decoy textures, uncolorable. Mark over enemy head is color 1. Ideal is certainly not what we have. Mark should be a blend (see Khora, ability 3), main body should be colorable.
If using SP currently: All energy effects other than the clouds on ability 3 are properly colored, but Ash when invisible and ability 4's marks show up as glaringly yellow using my colors.
Overall: Ash is a mess.
Score: 3/10, Desperate need of a fix.

Atlas

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy cloud effects are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Rubble pickup is color 1. Ideal is SP, though the rubble should be using color 2.
Ability 2: Cloud effects are interior color 1, exterior color 2. If Ability 3 is cast on it, the rocks are shrouded in a layer of color 1. Ideal is SP, though the shroud should be using color 2.
Ability 3: Energy wave start with color 1, and then extends outward to color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Energy interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Particles are a combo of both. Ideal is SP.
If using SP currently: All effects other than rubble pickups and the shroud around ability 2 are properly colored.
Overall: Atlas mostly is as he was pre-split. Very few problems.
Score: 9/10, low priority.
 

Banshee

Spoiler

Ability 1: Wave interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Cloud is color 1. Ideal is SP, though the cloud should be color 2.
Ability 2: Line interior energy is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Energy cloud is interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Interior energy lines are color 1, exterior is color 2. Energy waves around Banshee are color 2, clouds are color 1. Ideal is SP, solid colors are acceptable in this case.
If using SP currently: Most energy effects are properly colored, other than ability 1's cloud effects.
Extra notes: Emissive channel colors Banshee Prime's hairs using color 1 only, no blending effects.
Overall: Banshee is mostly as she was pre-fix, emissives need work.
Score: 7/10, minor issues, not top priority, but changes would be welcome.
 

Baruuk

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy swoosh is interior 1, exterior 2. For some reason, the energy spots on Baruuk himself use Emissive slot 1 instead of Energy 1. Go figure. Ideal is SP for energy, PS for emissive.
Ability 2: Main is color 2, accents are color 1. Effected enemies are shrouded in color 1. Ideal is SP, though the enemy shroud should be color 2.
Ability 3: Energy gradient is an even blend from 1 to 2. Ideal is SP, interestingly enough, the colors blend differently depending on which color is placed in which slot (frantic pointing toward slot swapping button suggestion).
Ability 4: Same gradient blend for the designs around Baruuk's fists and fired designs as ability 3. Glow on fists is purely color 1. Attack effect interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is YP, though the fist shroud should be color 2.
If using SP currently: All abilities other than fist color during ability 4 are properly blended. 
Overall: Odd channeling choice on ability 1 using emissives, but mainly problem-free other than minor gripes.
Score: 8/10, low priority.

Chroma (tortured screaming)

Spoiler

Passive: Element is from Emissive color 1. Pre-fix it was the original emissive 1, which is now in the emissive 2 slot. Ideal is PS for ability integrity, SP for color integrity. Hot mess. Either change the element to work off of color 2, or switch how the channels are applied to Chroma's emissives (or give us a better passive, nobody has said that before, right? /s). 
Ability 1: Uncolorable red/orange flames near mouth, regardless of element. Effects use the energy slots as usual, and in varying ways for the different elements. (i want to die)
1 - Cold: Literally only color 1, looks like old mustard for me. Ideal is definitely not something I can do. To fix, it should either use color 2 only, or actually blend the colors together.
1 - Electric: Main bolts are color 1, secondary bolt effects are a blend of interior as color 1 and exterior as color 2. Ideal is SP, but the main bolt should be color 2.
1 - Fire: Main fire is interior color 1, exterior color 2. Smoke puffs are purely color 1. Ideal is SP, but smoke puffs should be color 2.
1 - Toxin: Toxin cloud effects are only color 1, secondary effects are a blend of interior as color 1 and exterior as color 2. Ideal is SP, but the main clouds should be color 2.
Ability 2: Oh goody, this one is split into 4 variants also.
2 - Cold: Main frost breath is color 1 only, spall particles around the puff are a blend of color 1 and 2. Body shroud is -drumroll- uncolorable white. Ideal is SP for the particles, but the rest is something that's not this mess. Main breath color should be color 2, and the shroud should use Hildryn ability 3's shrouding method.
2 - Electric: First breath effect uses interior color 1, exterior color 2. Body energy effects are the same channeling. Ideal is SP. Thumbs up.
2 - Fire: Fire poof and ground effect are both interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP. Another thumbs up.
2 - Toxin: Breath effect is purely color 1, ground effect is the same as fire's. Ideal is SP, initial breath effect should be color 2. Thumbs back down.
Ability 3: Arm swooshes on cast are interior color 1, exterior 2. Main body effect is purely color 1. Ideal is SP, but body effect should be color 2.
Ability 4: Refer to ability 1 for breath effect coloring. Wings and cast energy effects are all interior color 1, exterior 2. Ideal is SP. 
If using SP currently: Everything is all over the place, some effects color proper, some don't. Very hard to attain ideal.
Extra notes: Tested on Chroma Dynasty as well, all channels are the same.
Overall: Bad.
Score: Did anyone bother testing this? 2/10, fixes needed last month.

Ember

Spoiler

Ability 1: Charge-up ring is color 1. Fire effects are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP, but with the charge ring changed to color 2.
Ability 2: Effects around body are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Radial rings are purely color 1. Ideal is SP, but with radial rings as color 2.
Ability 3: Ring is interior color 1, exterior color 2. Inner glow is only color 1. Ideal is SP, solid inner glow is acceptable as color 1.
Ability 4: Small clouds appearing on cast are color 1 exclusively. Swirling energy heads are color 1. Remaining fire effects and trails are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Metal clusters under fire geysers are still uncolorable gold. Ideal is SP, though the small clouds should be color 2.
Extra notes: Why are Ember and Frost's gold energy bits still uncolorable with the accent slot?
If using SP currently: Most effects are properly blended, but all abilities have some odd solid color choices. Most are acceptable relative to a lot of the rest of the roster (lookin at you, Chroma). 
Overall: Ember is mostly as she was pre-split. Very few problems.
Score: 9/10, low priority. (gold bits should still be high priority though)

Equinox

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy swooshes are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 2 (night): Connecting lines and particles are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Energy shroud around enemies is color 1 only. Ideal is SP, though shroud color should be color 2.
Ability 2 (day): Energy lines and swooshes are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3 (night): Rotating lines are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Enemy energy shroud is only color 1. Ideal is SP, though enemy shroud should be color 2.
Ability 3 (day): Rotating lines are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4 (night): Cast energy is interior color 1, exterior color 2. Enemies are shrouded in a blend of color 1 and 2, similar to the cast energy. Why aren't all the shroud effects like this? The ground is only color 1 and it hurts my sensibilities. Ideal is SP, but with the ground as color 2.
Ability 4 (day): Same as night version.
If using SP currently: A few things aren't colorable, but Equinox mostly is well colored, especially considering how many more abilities she has that could have been screwed up.
Extra notes: To restate, why aren't all frame's ability colors that shroud enemies using the same color channels as Equinox ability 4? 
Overall: Equinox is mostly as she was pre-split. Very few problems.
Score: 9/10, low priority.

Excalibur

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy lines and swooshes are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Cube effects after the dash are purely color 1. Ideal is SP, would be nice if the cubes were color 2, but it's acceptable.
Ability 2: Electric effects and particles are a blend of color 1 and color 2. Cast lights at Excalibur's feet and head are purely color 1. Ideal is SP, though the cast light should be color 2.
Ability 3: Energy lines and swooshes are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Cube and cloud effects after the slam are purely color 1. Ideal is SP, slam effects should be color 2.
Ability 4: Energy lines and swooshes are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
If using SP currently: Mostly everything is properly colored, any wrong colors are barely even noticeable.
Overall: Excalibur is mostly as he was pre-split. Very few problems.
Score: 9/10, low priority.

Frost

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy trail and explosion are a particle blend of color 1 and 2. Effected enemies are shrouded in color 1 only. Ideal is YP, color shroud should be color 2.
Ability 2: Literally just color 1. Enemies are shrouded in color 1 of course. Also has those same uncolorable gold chunks. Angry screaming. Add dual colors, or just change everything to color 2, I don't care which, just not what we have now. 
Ability 3: Edges where the globe touches a surface are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Globe and storm effects are a blend of both. Shattered globe flakes are purely color 1. Ideal is SP. 
Ability 4: Energy waves are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ice spikes are purely color 1 (looks like frozen pee, thanks). Ideal is SP, but with the ice spikes using color 2.
If using SP currently: It's a grab bag of possibilities. Maybe it'll look right, maybe not. If you use a globe-only build, you'll be happy.
Extra notes: Wild, angry gesturing toward the uncolorable gold bits. 
Overall: Really good in some spots, some inexcusable problems in others.
Score: 4/10, plenty of room for improvement. Should be fixed sooner than later.

Gara or Dual Energy is a Lie

Spoiler

Glass on Gara: For some reason this actually uses dual energy. Ideal is YP. Too bad that doesn't work with any other abilities.
Ability 1: Particle and energy effects are a blend of color 1 and color 2. The sword is entirely color 1. Ideal is unattainable without adding dual colors to the sword.
Ability 2: Floating glass is only color 1. The kicker here is that the glass particles not making up the shield during the cast animation are a blend of color 1 and 2, basically the same way the colors behave on Gara's body glass. Ideal is again unattainable, why aren't the glass chunks just colored like Gara's body glass?
Ability 3: Cast effects are a blend of color 1 and color 2, as they should be. The circulating shields are only color 1. Wow, another swing and a miss. Add. Dual. Colors.
Ability 4: Cast effects and the following energy ring are a proper blend of color 1 and color 2. Interior of the ring is color 1, exterior is color 2. The actual wall on the other hand is a solid pee-yellow again, using only color 1. "Dual energy colors" in quotes. Screaming.
If using SP currently: You'll be really sad. If you swap to PS it'll be more like it was pre-fix, but then your Gara's main body will look like hot dookie. Choose your poison.
Overall: This is an especially large shame since led2012's skin is so glorious. It doesn't make sense that the glass on Gara's body recieves dual colors while none of the other glass parts in her abilities do.
Score: 0/10, there are so few actual dual energy portions that I can barely say there's even a solid groundwork. Gara should be looked at immediately.
 

Garuda

Spoiler

Ability 1: Jumping trail, shield energy effects, and thrown energy trail interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 2: Effect ring, particles, and healing tether are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Trail effects during cast are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Claw trails are mainly color 2, slight hint of color 1. Targeting ring and mark over enemy head is only color 1. Ideal is SP, the targeting ring should use color 2, the marks should be blended like Khora's Venari marks.
If using SP currently: Most colors are ideal, only really UI issues with Garuda.
Overall: Nothing incredibly problematic, just the same issue of an odd non-dual color channel.
Score: 9/10, low priority.

Harrow

Spoiler

Thurible colors: No matter which way this is colored, any color of a warmer color temperature overrides a color of a cooler temp. Go ask your cool artist friend (or google) what color temp is if you don't already know.
Ability 1: Harrow glows purely color 1 on cast, thought the energy effects swirling along the cast path are interior color 1, exterior color 2. The ground cracks and enemy shrouds on hit are once again only color 1. Ideal is SP for trail integrity, but the glow and cracks really throw this off. Make the glow and crack color 2 and I'll accept it.
Ability 2: Trail and smacking effects are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Readout and cloud effects are only color 1. Energy trails are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP I guess? Same problems as ability 1.
Ability 4: The truly messy one. The readout is only color 1. Energy trails are interior color 1, exterior color 2. The kicker here is that for once, Retaliation's swirling orb almost exclusively uses color 2. There are slight hints of color 1 in it, but it's so incredibly light I almost missed it. Ideal is SP maybe? The trails are right, that's about it.
If using SP currently: You'll spot more S than you'd care to, I sure know I do. It's ok on the surface, but once you pay even an ounce of attention, it falls apart.
Overall: They did my boy dirty. No matter which way I flip this, something is wrong one way or the other. Still not the worst, but not great.
Score: 6/10, not the highest priority, but could certainly be fixed.

Hildryn

Spoiler

Ability 1: Spikes around the charger, particles, and trails all have an interior of color 1, and an exterior of color 2. Energy at the firing end of the charger and the explosion cloud on impact are only color 1. Ideal is SP, same normal complaints.
Ability 2: All effects use an interior of color 1, and an exterior of color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: All energy effects use an interior of color 1, and an exterior of color 2. Body shroud also uses the same channeling. Ideal is SP. 2x combo!
Ability 4: Most effects use an interior of color 1, and an exterior of color 2. Jet clouds while ascending start with color 2, and end with color 1. Ideal is SP, no complaints. 3x combo!
If using SP currently: You'll be very happy. 
Overall: Hildryn is done proper. There's a tiny bit on Balefire that could be better, but I'll let it slide.
Score: 9.5/10, so close to perfection. Clean up Balefire and swap the channel order and we're at a 10.

Hydroid or Here Dies the Combo by Excessive Urination

Spoiler

Ability 1: Pee Barrage. Charging ring, ground color, and raindrops (?) are all only color 1. Casting effects around Hydroid and raindrop impacts properly blend, with color 1 on the interior, and color 2 on the exterior. Ideal is SP I guess? I dunno, too many solids.
Ability 2: The Pee Wave is only color 1. The outer edge is a blend of color 1 and 2, but it's hard to notice. Ideal is ???. I guess SP makes the edge properly colored at least? Dual color the dang water, or at least make it color 2 only.
Ability 3: Yeah, that's just pee. Color 1 is the whole thing. There are also little blue dots because apparently colored water droplets are 'unrealistic'. Ideal is PS I guess? It should really just be color 2 so that it fits with other abilities, but yknow... *Dual colors*.
Ability 4: Casting effects are properly colored, interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Everything else is colored by the *emissive* slots, not energy slots. The Kraken and tentacle energy dots are interior emissive color 1, exterior emissive color 2, but the tentacles also use emissive color 2 to color the secondary skin color on the tentacle. Ideal is not this.
If using SP currently: I'm sorry for your loss.
Overall: Gara but with water. Changing his name to Whydroid. Also remember how we were told that the emissive/energy split would make it so you could color frames separate from abilities? Someone sure forgot here.
Score: -1/10, too many issues pull him to flat 0, extra minus 1 for no prime trailer. Fix.

Extra images:

Helmet, emissives SP

Spoiler

Helmet, emissives PS 

Spoiler

Belt, emissives SP 

Spoiler

Belt, emissives PS

Spoiler

Tentacles, emissives, not energy, SP

Spoiler

Tentacles, emissives, not energy, PS

Spoiler

 

Inaros

Spoiler

All Abilities: Every ability uses the proper energy channels, interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Only gripe is that the sand is uncolorable, but it's not a gripe in relation to dual energy channels.
If using SP currently: Everything will look right, if you spot a problem, you're impossible to please.
Overall: Inaros is sleeper perfect. Really didn't expect this.
Score: 10/10, somehow Inaros needs no changes.

Ivara

Spoiler

Ability 1: Charge up wheel is only color 1. What a surprise.
1 - Cloak: Point of impact is solid color 1. Bubble and ring of effect are a blend of interior color 1 and exterior color 2. When Ivara enters the bubble, she gradients from color 1 to staying a solid color 2. Upon leaving she is fully shrouded in color 1. Ideal is SP.
1 - Dashwire: Wire interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
1 - Noise: Radiating soundwaves are interior 1, and exterior color 2. There are orange uncolorable electricity effects around the point of impact for some reason. Ideal is SP.
1 - Sleep: Point of impact spews particles of color 1 and color 2 blended. Enemies are yet again shrouded in solely color 1. Ideal is PS.
Ability 2: Energy sparks are color 1 and color 2, energy trails on the projectile are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Entry and exit waves are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ivara starts cloaked as color 1, which becomes fully color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Arrow trails are only color 1. Ideal ain't this. Give me blending, we have the tech for it.
If using SP currently: Ivara is like playing Russian Roulette with a color wheel.
Overall: Ivara is mostly acceptable, though there should be a gradient between 1 and 2 for her cloaked colors.
Score: 7/10, mostly ok, could be better, but not the top of the list.
 

Khora

Spoiler

Ability 1: Energy effects are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 2: Chains are based on other channels within Khora, linked enemy tethers are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Venari target symbol is a gradient between color 1 and color 2. Targeted unit is shrouded in color 1 only. Ideal is SP, but with the shroud using color 2.
Ability 4: Cast and lightning effects interior color is 1, exterior is 2. Ideal is SP.
If using SP currently: You should be pretty happy with an SP setup.
Overall: Khora mainly is up to par, just needs some slight tweaks.
Score: 9/10, low priority.

Limbo

Spoiler

Dash portal: Exterior is color 2, interior is color 1. Ideal is PS (grumble).
Comparison:
 

Spoiler

PS

SP

Ability 1: Energy effect interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 2: Energy effect interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Energy on his hand is only color 1. Ideal is SP. You should know my complaint and proposed fix by now.
Ability 3: Swirly particles interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Cast point is only color 1, sphere swirlies and collapse particle interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
If using SP currently: You'll be relatively happy until you do a dodge roll, then you'll be very disappointed.
Extra notes: Limbo Limina skin uses energy colors to color his energy tassles, not emissive colors like it should.
Overall: As much as I hate to say this, Limbo is close to done. 
Score: 7/10, reverse the dash portal's channels and add dual color to the things missing it, and Limbo is a 10.
 

Loki

Spoiler

Ability 1: Cast effects interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. The clone is only color 1. Ideal is not this, since the main body of the ability should be color 2 ***OR BLENDED***. For now I guess PS is ideal for integrity?
Ability 2: Loki becomes color 2, cloud effect interior is 1, exterior is 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 3: Poof clouds interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 4: Cast energy trail interior is color 1, exterior is color 2. Cast cloud trail is only color 1. Ideal is SP, but with the clouds using color 2.
If using SP currently: Like any normal Loki player, you probably won't press 1 enough to be bothered by it. If you do press 1, make sure you look away.
Overall: Loki is... acceptable. 
Score: 6.5/10, needs work, especially on his 1, but isn't as bad as he could be. Extra half point for actually using the proper invis color.
 

Mag

Spoiler

Ability 1: Pull effects around her hands and enemies are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Ideal is SP.
Ability 2: My baby girl. What did they do to you. Energy trails leading to enemies are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Too bad the bubble itself is glaringly only color 1. However, when the bubble condenses after its duration expires, it becomes the proper color blend, with color 2 as the main body, and color 1 as swirlies on the surface. The post explosion also uses an interior of color 1, and an exterior of color 2. This is nowhere near ideal. Why do Limbo and Frost get blended bubble but Mag doesn't (at least not during the main body of the cast)? Come on.
Ability 3: Like Frost and Ivara, Mag's sphere is a gradient between color 1 and color 2. This is how her second ability should look. Fragment remnants are only color 1. Ideal is SP, but with fragments as color 2.
Ability 4: Effects surrounding Mag's hands and after enemies explode are interior color 1, exterior color 2. Metal chunks near her hands are a blend of color 1 and color 2. During cast, enemies spew particles of color 1 only. Ideal is SP.
If using SP currently: You'll be happy as long as you don't press 2, but that's Mag's main DPS ability, so you'll probably be very unhappy like I am.
Overall: Mag's 2 is a glaring issue, it's too big to overlook. Her other abilities are mainly good though.
Score: 5/10, one really bad ability sours this by a lot. Should be looked at sooner than later.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Fluffysbeans
smol typo

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Can confirm. And it's both confuse and annoying. The second slot is the dominant one, and the first slot is for the secondary color. Took me days to figure out why my colors weren't getting the way I wanted them.

One note to DE though, if you plan to change/reverse the color picker order. Please make it so that if you change their order please do it so that the colors also change places. That way the dominant colors stay always in the dominant slot, and I don't need to review all frames, syandanas and attachments all over again. Real pain in the behind to do so, and I still have half+ of my gear to go trough.

Edited July 15, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Koalachan]

I hope your input gets put to good use by DE. This is a very constructive and researched post. Thank you a lot.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Koalachan

[NightmareT12]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Can confirm. And it's both confuse and annoying. The second slot is the dominant one, and the first slot is for the secondary color. Took me days to figure out why my colors weren't getting the way I wanted them. 

It'¡s not: The primary is for the core and the secondary is for the aura, and it's working exactly like that.

That people somehow think one is dominant or not is the issue, even though it was clearly stated in the patchnotes and fixed already.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

9 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

It'¡s not: The primary is for the core and the secondary is for the aura, and it's working exactly like that.

That people somehow think one is dominant or not is the issue, even though it was clearly stated in the patchnotes and fixed already.

I have no issues with it, so long as they don't change it and cause me a lot of unnecessary work. I did not know about the aura thing, and I am yet to see it in any patchnotes in the console version, so ty for the info. That is pretty normal since we usually get all notes that are accumulating over a "long" time all at once, and some are pretty hidden among all the uninteresting stuff.

Either way the second slot is way more dominant than the first one. Too dominant, imho. Don't change the slots, but I certainly wouldn't mind a somewhat more balanced ratio.

Edited July 15, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[NightmareT12]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

but I certainly wouldn't mind a somewhat more balanced ratio.

The problem is, some effects like this:

Are actually 3D and not 2D. What does that mean? Imagine a see through cable where you see the copper inside. That's why it looks like this -- if you try to make it "flat" then it will look really weird at certain angles, since it's simply the way the emissive textures (yes, all Energy effects are an actual cetagroy of texturing called emissives) work.

That's why, if you check default colors, DE usually uses colors of the same family that aren't in stark contrast. If OP uses purple and yellow, then the texture will do its best to showcase but it isn't satisfactory. But if you use a very light blue and then a darker shade of the same color, it will look and blend better, as it will look naturally degraded.

Because all textures are also different between them, you can't also expect the same color scheme to look the same across the very expansive board that are the 4 abilities of the different 30+ Warframes. That would be demential.

Edited July 15, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Fluffysbeans]

32 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

It'¡s not: The primary is for the core and the secondary is for the aura, and it's working exactly like that.

That people somehow think one is dominant or not is the issue, even though it was clearly stated in the patchnotes and fixed already.

The problem is that the dominant channel flip flopped between the original iteration of dual-colors and the second, which I was pretty clear about.

Right here:

4 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Since the fix, what used to be my first slot primary energy (purple), is now sequestered to my second slot, or I get that orange mess. 
My secondary (yellow) is now in the first slot, which the game now thinks of as the primary slot, even though it's layered underneath the second slot.

The color channels reversed what they used to do, where the first slot used to be the 'aura' section and the main body of things like meters and other single color effects, it's now the second slot, which still applies to the aura, but not the main body of effects. 

On top of that, one color is, according to even DE, a secondary color, which in most interpretations is the color after the primary, or dominant color. The colors also blend differently depending on which one is first, with the dominant primary overlaying the less prominent secondary. That's why purple in the second slot (primary) is overlayed above the yellow in the first slot (secondary), and purple has a darker value, meaning none of the yellow shows through. If you switch them, yellow, a lighter value color, is overlayed, letting some purple through, which makes a muddy orange color.

And it might be stated that it was fixed, but uhm, this isn't the first time DE said something was fixed when it very much wasn't.

Quote

 If OP uses purple and yellow, then the texture will do its best to showcase but it isn't satisfactory.

oh and to add another point, I'm not concerned as much with the order of the colors (which work perfectly fine when they're placed in the proper slots might I add), I'm concerned with which channels are being used in conjunction with others. This was all working properly on the first iteration of two-tone colors, it was in the 1.5 and 2.0 revisions that things really broke. There's no reason for the swap on the original primary color simply not working for single color effect, but apparently if I just used more alike colors that wouldn't be a proble-

oh wait, it would be, the main color still wouldn't apply to effects like Ember's charging ring on her 1, it would only be the lighter blue in the center of the energy effect, or slot 1 in our current setup, which isn't the way it used to be.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Fluffysbeans

[NightmareT12]

8 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

The color channels reversed what they used to do, where the first slot used to be the 'aura' section and the main body of things like meters and other single color effects, it's now the second slot, which still applies to the aura, but not the main body of effects. 

That's because it wasn't working properly. A few of us actually reported that and got fixed the week after U25 released.

8 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

On top of that, one color is, according to even DE, a secondary color, which in most interpretations is the color after the primary, or dominant color.

That's why I keep thinking the name be changed to be clearer, but the intentions have been explained not once, but twice now.

Edited July 15, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Fluffysbeans]

I'm trying to figure out if you're denying that there are still problems in relation to how dual colors are handled now versus how they used to be before, and if you are, why?

In the revision of dual energy, the one that added 4 channels (2 emissive, 2 energy), that was where some channels flip flopped (esp. nidus and nekros). DE semi-fixed some of those, like how they reversed which channel Nekros Irkalla pulls its flame colors. Funny enough, the flame wasn't split in the first version, it only pulled from slot 1, the primary, which is now slot 2. But for frames that weren't mentioned, most things are still broken, which I wrote over 4000 words explaining how that was the case for 20 of them. 

[GSkilletNick]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

It'¡s not: The primary is for the core and the secondary is for the aura, and it's working exactly like that. 

That people somehow think one is dominant or not is the issue, even though it was clearly stated in the patchnotes and fixed already. 

So using this logic, hydroids tentacles are an aura then?

Edited July 15, 2019 by GSkilletNick

[NightmareT12]

11 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

I'm trying to figure out if you're denying that there are still problems in relation to how dual colors are handled now versus how they used to be before, and if you are, why? 

Because you keep stating:

27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

which isn't the way it used to be. 

And the whole point is:

18 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

That's because it wasn't working properly. A few of us actually reported that and got fixed the week after U25 released.

18 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

That's why I keep thinking the name be changed to be clearer, but the intentions have been explained not once, but twice now.

And in fact, more than twice (which is only counting patch notes and not devstreams and forum posts):

On 2019-05-23 at 4:18 PM, [DE]Jeremy said:

The way it works is..the primary colors (left ones) are applied to the bright areas of the emissive/fx, while the secondary (right colors) are applied to the darker portions.  Some fx/emissives are darker/brighter than others, so will lean that way when it comes to coloring them.

And even if you want a bit more background, here's a PM of a conversation regarding Emissives from back in 2016 with a dev member in an attempt to get a few things fixed:

Quote

Slightly different emissive setup than most of the Tenno.  We set a hi and low colour and those are the reverse of what I would think of as normal on him, but I quite like the look.  Will have to try it on some of my stuff.

And you're completely suggesting DE to literally unfix what has taken them 2 months and a half to fix, and even then, there are still open issues of which I keep an eye on.

Like, what the hell.

[Fluffysbeans]

1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

And you're completely suggesting DE to literally unfix what has taken them 2 months and a half to fix, and even then, there are still open issues of which I keep an eye on.

 

No, I'm telling them that the fix was insufficient. 

What you're apparently too dense to understand is that I'm pointing out frames like Gara, Hydroid, and Mag are entirely missing some dual colors, and others, like Limbo and Ash, have some straight reversed.

To restate yet again, and make sure you read this real nice and slowly:

The current color 2, previously color 1, was the main color of our frames, and was that way all the way up until the 4 channel energy set, the third update. In the first dual color update that introduced two channels, the previous color 1 still colored everything that it used to, but it was now blended with a second channel in places where it was able to. In the second update, the one that was reverted until the third update, everything broke, because what used to be the secondary channel now colored things the first channel did in the first update. When we got the third update, most of the second update's problems were re-introduced. The fourth update, the current one, the one after you "reported and got things changed" did fix some of the problems both introduced in the second update, and reintroduced in the third update. 

BUT those fixes only left things broken, just in a different way, which I am now trying to get changed, all by using a very thorough list of what colors need to be swapped into which slots, and unless you have a problem with trying to fix the things that you also apparently want, you should probably stop trying to stop me. 

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

like Limbo and Ash, have some straight reversed.

Two Warframes I actually use and have correctly set up, where I don't see any color channel reversal. I literally used Limbo an hour ago and set him up with due care, especially for the Cataclysm effects.

6 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

The current color 2, previously color 1, was the main color of our frames, and was that way all the way up until the 4 channel energy set, the third update.

I'll repeat myself again:

On 2019-05-23 at 4:18 PM, [DE]Jeremy said:

The way it works is..the primary colors (left ones) are applied to the bright areas of the emissive/fx, while the secondary (right colors) are applied to the darker portions.  Some fx/emissives are darker/brighter than others, so will lean that way when it comes to coloring them.

There's no "main" color. There's only a "high" and a "low" color. And it's working exactly like it should, because the previous issue was generalized because the UI boxes were swapped. No matter how it's spun, the Devteam has been loud and clear as to how the system is supposed to work. Which will work better or worse depending on the frame, but works.

I also stated (and honestly, I believe it's pretty obvious from a logical standpoint) that all textures are different and it's impossible to standarize them.

8 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

and unless you have a problem with trying to fix the things that you also apparently want, you should probably stop trying to stop me. 

• I don't have a problem with fixes happening. I merely identify you obviously don't understand the system (it's okay, not everyone does nor I did at first, it's advanced and takes some trial and error) and tried to explain to you how and why citing the devs themselves.
• I don't have a special power (nor believe I do) to make anything happen or stop happening. I don't have any sort of magical connection to DE staff, or friends there, or anything of the matter, nor think I do nor think anyone would think I do. I'm merely trying to tell you why the system works the way it does, which from all your replies you clearly have a misconception of it (which subsequently states why the list of changes seems out of place).

It's not a personal matter with you, so please cut it out.

A few notes, at all this:

• When I suggest a fix or feedback, I (and I say I because not everyone is willing or does) always consider the initial idea, the intended concept, the thought behind the process if I can, and try to be as concise and clear as I can be (although I often fail because I keep pouring words upon words).
• More words does not equal good feedback. In fact, I feel the thread has an excessive amount of wording that ends up being confusing, requiring a lot of backtracking for certain concepts. It's very convulse.
• We're on Forums, and that means this is a place of inherent discussion. You cannot just expect to drop everything here and everyone jumping on the bandwagon.

I'm not going to keep replying further, because I obviously have nothing to gain here. With the knowledge shared, do what you might. What you might do with it is not on me.

[Fluffysbeans]

55 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Two Warframes I actually use and have correctly set up, where I don't see any color channel reversal. I literally used Limbo an hour ago and set him up with due care, especially for the Cataclysm effects.

If you actually read my first post, I talk about how cataclysm is able to be set up as it used to be able to on the first dual color update. It's the entire package, especially the rift portal, that falls apart on the current build. 
If there's no problem, then how do you explain Loki and Ivara using energy color 2 for their invis slot, while ash uses energy color 1?

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

Which will work better or worse depending on the frame, but works.

In my book, that's not working then if it doesn't work for everything, which is yet again my point, and why I made things like Inaros and Hildryn scored perfect or nearly perfectly. I don't just want a few Inaros/Hildryns, I want the whole roster to be that good.

 

59 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

We're on Forums, and that means this is a place of inherent discussion. You cannot just expect to drop everything here and everyone jumping on the bandwagon.

It's not that I need a bandwagon, it's that I need a solid discussion with someone who actually takes the time to comprehend my post before responding, which is clearly not something you have any intention of doing.

[Fluffysbeans]

poking this for added visibility