Nightwave, and Why it Ultimately Fails

[LordLokai]

In the beginning we had alerts, and what were alerts? They were designed as short missions that gave an easy to access reward. In the begining these rewards were pretty meh at best, and sometimes you would get an ok reward once in a blue moon. Over time the rewards did get better but do to the random nature it could often times be very hard to get what you wanted to get without having some 3rd party application letting you know what alert was up when.

So What was Nightwave suppose to do? Well i believe the idea was to fix the alert system and make a new system that was generally more fun and engaging. What it actually does in practice though is become more of a bother and annoyance and a GIANT ass time sink then anything else. Alot of the missions we are handed feel so gamey and out of place alot of the immersion of alerts made them at least feel like part of the game world. But why am i doing 150 bullet jumps again? why am i forced to do silver grove content over? this becomes the biggest issue with nightwave, it doesn't fit seamlessly into the game and feels like more of a chore then a fun aspect of the game. While those rewards are nice... the tedious nonsense we have to do to get them makes the whole experience an unfun mess.

Before when i wanted a reactor, or a cosmetic helm, i could jump into a mission spend 10 minutes doing it and come out feeling pretty satisfied. Now to do that same thing i need to literally do HOURS of game play to even come close to the same rewards. On top of that the actual game play we are being asked to do isn't very immersive... we aren't doing missions for nora, we aren't expanding on the story she's telling, we aren't learning anything along the way. It's just an arbitrary list of activities you expect us to cave and do... but the worst part of it is i have to ACTIVELY go out of my way from my normal routine JUST to do this stuff. Often taking entire days or more to accomplish as it quite often requires us to gather plants, or use forma... just to complete them. This new system took a system that while not great WORKED and completely made it an unfun, and unimmersive mess...

I literally haven't touched the game since i gave up on nightwave and coming back to the new nightwave made me hate the game all over again...yes... nightwave single handedly killed warframes for me... i don't know what DE is trying to do but, this is getting old so fast... i love this game i do but, i don't have the time or inclination to sit down and play it every single day just to get things i use to be able to get no problem... something has to change... nightwave is a failure... a big stinking mass of infested dung... seriously, i don't understand what they were going for with this... and why it has to be so tedious and time consuming... it's the first time since i started playing where i threw my hands up and walked away from this game because i was upset at something about the game itself...

i'll probably always come back... but man nightwave is so bad--- i love Nora! alot but the mechanics of nightwave just strike a nerve for me...

[SnowWarFr]

Why is your last paragraph littered with "..."s? It's too much.

I do agree with you on one item: it's not fun. I think it's not fun because it's not very satisfying compared to Alerts. Work seems too much for something feeble.

My suggestion is that for every act we do, we are rewarded with something tangible like creds, not just numbers. This would increase spending at the cred shop. Someone who wants go Wolf hunting can go buy five instead of one because of how much credit that person can only earn due to the tier rewards.

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with LordLokai's entire argument. 

[BLI7Z]

I agree with what you wrote about Nightwave... for me it feels like being forced to revisit stuff that I would think it wouldn't have to be done again (silver grove, mining and fishing after getting ALL that require those resources, formaing after having put dozens of formas on lots of stuff, gilding when one have done all that stuff, thinking the next time rep farming for more custom items will be when something new comes out, etc). I know that always one more forma can be fit in an item with not enough of them, or that in any case a new Amp can be built to try new possible combinations and gild it... but I would like to do that whenever I feel like, and because I want to, not just because some random new character that I know nothing about asks me to do it just to watch how a rep number grows, with it being connected to practically nothing except some end reward that is a nice operator suit (the best of all suits) that can only be won doing that illogical abstract random weekly and daily "quests". It takes away a lot of immersiveness It feels so random that it hurts... and the rewards. Meh... more mods for specific weapons I will never use, and more visually nice but useless stuff (except that sweet sweet infested operator suit that I want right now and it's the only reason why I want to do Nightwave)... and well, the Umbra Forma, but I feel like it is totally forced that item there, just to give a real excuse for doing Nightwave. If it wasn't for those items, Nightwave would be totally dead. 

BTW, I have lots of spare Nitain that I have nothing to use for, I have all the alt helmets I want, also have all the weapon and vauban BP since normal alerts existed, and most of my arsenal is potatoed... what shall I do with so much creds? Buy Wolf beacons so I try to get the mask that I really have no need for? Buy more Nitain so I can get more than a couple hundred more of it? Stock on potatoes when is much easier to farm prime parts, sell for platinum and buy those tasty potatoes?

I think Nightwave should've been some kind of progressive quest with more complex missions intertwined into some real story that is slowly revealed, with tangible rewards while progressing. More concrete challenges, not stuff that feels so random and unnecessary.

[SnowWarFr]

6 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

I think Nightwave should've been some kind of progressive quest with more complex missions intertwined into some real story that is slowly revealed, with tangible rewards while progressing. More concrete challenges, not stuff that feels so random and unnecessary.

Well Nightwave is a battlepass, unless you think battlepasses fail to execute the purpose of Nightwave.

Do define concrete challenges. People often talk about how bad certain things are, but until we have an alternative idea, talks about replacing the old idea is wasteful.

Not to say that I agree with you. It feels... weird.

[GnarlsDarkley]

2 hours ago, LordLokai said:

a GIANT ass time sink then anything else.

I invest about 1 or 2 hrs a week to get most of the challenges done. That's hardly a GIANT ass time sink

2 hours ago, LordLokai said:

But why am i doing 150 bullet jumps again?

How are you moving through maps? I finished the 150 Bullet Jumps almost in one map playing like I always was.

2 hours ago, LordLokai said:

why am i forced to do silver grove content over?

Because you want to. I skipped the Index last week, I will skip the Spectre this week. And I will still get high into Prestige Ranks.

We only need about 60 to 70% of all the Points to get to Rank 30 (and there is almost no incentive to go further)

[BLI7Z]

hace 3 minutos, SnowWarFr dijo:

Well Nightwave is a battlepass, unless you think battlepasses fail to execute the purpose of Nightwave.

Do define concrete challenges. People often talk about how bad certain things are, but until we have an alternative idea, talks about replacing the old idea is wasteful.

Not to say that I agree with you. It feels... weird.

Maybe "more concrete" was a bad wording. More universal would be better. Those kill X enemies with X type of damage, or kill X eximus, or do X types of mission, X minutes, waves, sorties, etc... feel better because it's a part of just playing. But the ones that don't feel right for me because I'm already totally done or feel like putting pressure into something very personal that is the arsenal, are those requiring to forma, gilding, mining, fishing. It is like Nora trying to get into my arsenal, or telling me to go to work. 

Nightwave should only disrupt a "normal" playing day because of some very specific lore scenario... and they should take into consideration people that are in highest MR and with almost all content of the game done. 

But anyways all that mechanic feels too detached. Why am I doing all that? I know it is a battlepass... but, why? What's the real lore behind that? Who is Nora? Why can't I mute her? Why does she want to be my boss right after getting finally rid of the Lotus? I just want to annihilate those who stand in front of me while Ordis tells bad and repetitive jokes over my shoulder. 

[SnowWarFr]

1 minute ago, BLI7Z said:

Maybe "more concrete" was a bad wording. More universal would be better. Those kill X enemies with X type of damage, or kill X eximus, or do X types of mission, X minutes, waves, sorties, etc... feel better because it's a part of just playing. But the ones that don't feel right for me because I'm already totally done or feel like putting pressure into something very personal that is the arsenal, are those requiring to forma, gilding, mining, fishing. It is like Nora trying to get into my arsenal, or telling me to go to work. 

Nightwave should only disrupt a "normal" playing day because of some very specific lore scenario... and they should take into consideration people that are in highest MR and with almost all content of the game done. 

But anyways all that mechanic feels too detached. Why am I doing all that? I know it is a battlepass... but, why? What's the real lore behind that? Who is Nora? Why can't I mute her? Why does she want to be my boss right after getting finally rid of the Lotus? I just want to annihilate those who stand in front of me while Ordis tells bad and repetitive jokes over my shoulder. 

Bruh. I feel yah.

Those challenges are my favorite not because they're the most fun, but because they're the easiest. That's a reason you don't want to have.

I don't mind being disrupted as long as it gets me to know more about the Series, but none of the acts do that. Instead, it becomes repetitive for some players out there.

[SnowWarFr]

14 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I invest about 1 or 2 hrs a week to get most of the challenges done. That's hardly a GIANT ass time sink

I think he's talking about the acts it takes to get the rewards in the creds shop in comparison to Alerts. More buck for less bang is what I'm think he's trying to argue behind his rant.

[GnarlsDarkley]

1 minute ago, SnowWarFr said:

it takes to get the rewards in the creds shop in comparison to Alerts

Then they should argue like that and not with gibberish. OP was talking nonsense imo so I even had to quit to read because it was so wrong

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

I wish we could have a game where these people who liked 10,000 credits for a level 10 exterminate get their wishes, while I could have Nightwave season 1 where a week's worth wasn't just completed in an hour on Sunday.

[SnowWarFr]

Just now, GnarlsDarkley said:

Then they should argue like that and not with gibberish. OP was talking nonsense imo so I even had to quit to read because it was so wrong

I understand

 

Just now, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I wish we could have a game where these people who liked 10,000 credits for a level 10 exterminate get their wishes, while I could have Nightwave season 1 where a week's worth wasn't just completed in an hour on Sunday.

You just defined utopia.

[Test-995]

Battle pass in this game? No thanks, just make it something like syndicate that can be farmed by "just playing".

[Teridax68]

I can agree that Nightwave's current chore-based structure isn't really great, and that to some extend alerts at least felt like they were pushing the player to play the game. Personally, I think it comes down to individual challenges, because some are fairly decent (e.g. completing a level 30+ Exterminate undetected), whereas others really do feel like busywork (e.g. the 150 Bullet Jump challenge, or whichever challenges have the player expend resources). In this respect, while I personally feel Nightwave is an improvement overall, due to how it adds some persistent goal to play towards, I also think there's significant room for improvement, as we could do with many more interesting challenges, fewer to no chore-like challenges, and perhaps a consistent store front that doesn't alternate every week (there's no need to, considering how our cred gains are limited and generally time-gated anyway).

[Showerwalker]

Stating the obvious here, but this game is not a challenging game, and DE is designing it specifically this way. Which means that the "challenges" are often just chores or tedious chores, when you're given new challenges, you're never worried about your skill and ability, but rather how much time u're willing to give, there's a complete lack of enjoyment from challenging yourself that other games usually give. So honestly, they're just activities, for when someone have time to burn and don't feel like playing other games. (given this season's challenges, maybe it's not that DE make bad challenges, but perhaps they can't find more on this game, still, if u think u can come up with some that's acceptable by everyone, then by all means post it on the forum)

I wouldn't doubt if someone new to the game, bought all the gears that's required, can run through elite challenges without a sweat.

That said, I found it better to just not touch nightwave at all and ignore the rewards (personally), power rewards have no use because no contents in game require them, cosmetic rewards have no use because now I only play per new content for the story, as the game offers no depth to keep me going pass that (I use to play a lot before rivens and relics, MR21 2.8khrs atm), plus nightwave cosmetics is definitely not worth the time and dedication.

In the end, I think this doesn't mean it's inherently bad, maybe some people find simply spending time to be enjoyable, while some prefer to be challenged and overcome challenges to be enjoyable.

 

EDIT: going back, I realize that NW is made to push players into playing the game, or rather give them a reason to keep playing. But having fun is the ultimate reason for why I'd play any game at all, so sure NW give more reasons to "play", but if it's not fun, why bother.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Showerwalker

[DrakeWurrum]

19 hours ago, LordLokai said:

Before when i wanted a reactor, or a cosmetic helm, i could jump into a mission spend 10 minutes doing it and come out feeling pretty satisfied.

Well. If the Alert you wanted popped up anyways. You had to be available to do the Alert for the time it was active. This was an especially painful grind for Nitain.

It's been years since I saw any Alert worth doing, outside Gift of the Lotus (which still happen).

And note: Most Catalyst and Reactor alerts were specifically Gift of the Lotus. Meaning, most of the time, I spent plat to get them. Now, instead, I can get some Cred and throw it at potatoes.

[SnowWarFr]

14 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

And note: Most Catalyst and Reactor alerts were specifically Gift of the Lotus. Meaning, most of the time, I spent plat to get them. Now, instead, I can get some Cred and throw it at potatoes.

I still have that problem. I'm not getting enough creds so I'm still spending plat to get them.

Contrary, I find myself spending more platninum on potatoes more than ever.

[DrakeWurrum]

2 minutes ago, SnowWarFr said:

I still have that problem. I'm not getting enough creds so I'm still spending plat to get them.

Contrary, I find myself spending more platninum on potatoes more than ever.

I have the same problem. That's why I think Cred needs to be awarded with *EVERY* Nightwave rank, instead of only specific tiers. They give it out too sparingly for Cred Offerings to be at all meaningful.

Edited July 16, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Is this a troll/bait post? It reads like it's a troll or bait post.

It's good bait though if it is.

Edited July 17, 2019 by (XB1)RPColten

[Avienas]

19 hours ago, SnowWarFr said:

Well Nightwave is a battlepass, unless you think battlepasses fail to execute the purpose of Nightwave.

Do define concrete challenges. People often talk about how bad certain things are, but until we have an alternative idea, talks about replacing the old idea is wasteful.

Not to say that I agree with you. It feels... weird.

Felt like chiding in my own personal annoyance at how i am certain low level players would have issues and some feel like they might not be good for casual players to do. Some ideas they could of done was CONDENSE use X elemental weapon to kill 150 enemies to cover multiple elements(such as Electric & Heat as one and Toxin & Cold for another) and count if you are using a dual elemental on one of your weapons, with one of those 2 types.

Doing 150 bullet jumps is another tedious thing that i would rather it just be changed to doing parkour actions to include also double jumps, sliding, spin attacks, groundslams, aim glides, air kick-dives, etc. Basically make it more generalized so its not just find a corner and spam bullet jumps. Even farming K-drive standing on the pipe behind Fortuna is atleast fun since i can input whatever trick chain i want to reach those 3k score chains (which honestly should be uncapped to 9k or even 15k now).

Honestly just like certain challenges were removed, Silver grove which is tied to completing the Titania quest should not of been added since not every player,especially newer ones will enjoy searching for X planet which they likely will need to check a wikia for, get large amount of scans and then craft them, which some are locked to basically a 3 hour time gate for day and night cycles on earth. Would help if they simplified the resources needed, but unless someone wants to get those special mods from them instead of paying what might as well be 5~15 plat for each of the mods (PS4 prices are bad in general), very sure most would of bleached thar brains of any remembrance on that quest which is more tedious then Inaros since you actually are chasing enemies that will run towards you then you playing pokemon snap with plants instead. Instead it should of been, Kill 3 Juggernauts, since those things will spawn in your face almost constantly, whenever you decide to have a pizza party on any infested map.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Avienas

[SnowWarFr]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Felt like chiding in my own personal annoyance at how i am certain low level players would have issues and some feel like they might not be good for casual players to do. Some ideas they could of done was CONDENSE use X elemental weapon to kill 150 enemies to cover multiple elements(such as Electric & Heat as one and Toxin & Cold for another) and count if you are using a dual elemental on one of your weapons, with one of those 2 types.

Doing 150 bullet jumps is another tedious thing that i would rather it just be changed to doing parkour actions to include also double jumps, sliding, spin attacks, groundslams, aim glides, air kick-dives, etc. Basically make it more generalized so its not just find a corner and spam bullet jumps. Even farming K-drive standing on the pipe behind Fortuna is atleast fun since i can input whatever trick chain i want to reach those 3k score chains (which honestly should be uncapped to 9k or even 15k now).

Honestly just like certain challenges were removed, Silver grove which is tied to completing the Titania quest should not of been added since not every player,especially newer ones will enjoy searching for X planet which they likely will need to check a wikia for, get large amount of scans and then craft them, which some are locked to basically a 3 hour time gate for day and night cycles on earth. Would help if they simplified the resources needed, but unless someone wants to get those special mods from them instead of paying what might as well be 5~15 plat for each of the mods (PS4 prices are bad in general), very sure most would of bleached thar brains of any remembrance on that quest which is more tedious then Inaros since you actually are chasing enemies that will run towards you then you playing pokemon snap with plants instead. Instead it should of been, Kill 3 Juggernauts, since those things will spawn in your face almost constantly, whenever you decide to have a pizza party on any infested map.

I like your idea. Nightwave challenges should be very general and universal. Here's my take on Acts that should replace the current ones in the cycle:

• Kill 150 enemies using either Electric, Heat, or Radiation
• Kill 100 Grineer enemies (Daily)
• Kill 100 Corrupted enemies (Daily)
• Perform 75 K-Drive tricks (Daily)
• Do 200 parkour moves (Daily) {Bullet Jumping, Rolling, Gliding, Wall Hopping, Spin Attacks, etc.}
• Kill 1250 enemies (Weekly)
• Kill 400 Corpus enemies (Weekly)
• Kill 100 Eximus enemies (Elite Weekly)
• Loot 100,000 resources (Elite Weekly)

[Kimimoto]

Surprise there's nothing to do in this game, they're going to make you revisit old stuff.

Nightwave is the best update the game has had in three years. Better than both open worlds, better than the Sacrifice. I actually get to play the game I love for a little bit, instead of logging in and off.

[BLI7Z]

hace 43 minutos, SnowWarFr dijo:

I like your idea. Nightwave challenges should be very general and universal. Here's my take on Acts that should replace the current ones in the cycle:

• Kill 150 enemies using either Electric, Heat, or Radiation
• Kill 100 Grineer enemies (Daily)
• Kill 100 Corrupted enemies (Daily)
• Perform 75 K-Drive tricks (Daily)
• Do 200 parkour moves (Daily) {Bullet Jumping, Rolling, Gliding, Wall Hopping, Spin Attacks, etc.}
• Kill 1250 enemies (Weekly)
• Kill 400 Corpus enemies (Weekly)
• Kill 100 Eximus enemies (Elite Weekly)
• Loot 100,000 resources (Elite Weekly)

Hope they read this, this is 10000% better than the actual ones. This wouldn't disrupt a good gameplay, it would go good with anyone, and if someone wanted to play just to complete Nightwave challenges, they could choose to play in more various ways and complete it while doing sorties, arbitrations, relics, and any other similar stuff that is actually worth doing. 

Thank you

[SnowWarFr]

1 minute ago, BLI7Z said:

Hope they read this, this is 10000% better than the actual ones. This wouldn't disrupt a good gameplay, it would go good with anyone, and if someone wanted to play just to complete Nightwave challenges, they could choose to play in more various ways and complete it while doing sorties, arbitrations, relics, and any other similar stuff that is actually worth doing. 

Thank you

No, thank you!

I think I'll take these ideas, bring up some more, and put it on the feedback as an actual suggestion to fix Nightwave.

Edited July 17, 2019 by SnowWarFr

[KroneVanguard]

23 hours ago, LordLokai said:

Over time the rewards did get better but do to the random nature it could often times be very hard to get what you wanted to get without having some 3rd party application letting you know what alert was up when.

Never used "some 3rd party application". 😄 phfffff 😒 c'mon. I get what I get. Start building with what you have and other things will come, with patience. This game has always been around this. Perfectly fine for me. That' why I play it. "Want! Want! I want!" That's why I have so many plats, 'cause people "want". 😎

[(NSW)CthulhuAzathoth]

I am OK with this round of chore, at least no more "60 mins of something with a friend". However, I still believe the NW will fail due to the story. Frankly the story S*CK big time. I get why Wolf is mad and want to hunt down the warden,  but why he is hunting down the Teno? Why he has a suite that cancel all of Teno's power. Teno is basically gun for hire, shouldn't he just raid Ginger base and use the resource to hire the Teno?

Also none of the chore actually related to NW story. We are in an infest theme now, we should task like "kill xxx infest using heat". do "5 rounds of Hive" ... etc. At the current state, it is asking people to get to the max level ASAP. All I know the story for this round is related to a kid and infest. Do I care about the story anymore? NO, Do I want to max it out and get all the stuff? YES.

DE also need to put in some unique items to buy using the credit, I assume most people start in the alert era already have most of the helmet and skin. The only item that is unique is the wolf beacon. Once I get the bicycle helmet for my operator, the only items I ever need from the credit store is potato.