Nightwave Rework - How Nightwaves can make Warframe better by telling stories

[DariusMcSwag]

TL/DR: Add special missions/text to add more story to Nightwave, Put Reward Teirs in the Cred Offerings, Add Creds to every Act, make every Daily/Weekly mission type based (no guild here), Add Warframe Quests to Nightwave

Please read the whole post to fully understand the concept, and to give the others that haved helped this concept the credit they deserve.

 

Hello fellow Tenno,

I have seen a lot of posts recently in regards to Nightwave and how it burns out players. Personally I like having things to do in the game, but I agree with others that there is no reason to DO the "acts" for Nightwave, other than the rewards. It feels tedious, time consuming, and unrewarding. When I first saw the concept for Nightwave, I thought that it would be more story focused then it turned out to be. The story is here for Nightwave, but it almost seems secondary to the list of chores you are given to do every week. Nightwave has a lot of potential to help the game as a whole, but as it stands right now, it is hurting the game more than it is helping.

DISCLAIMER: These are merely concepts on how to improve Nightwave and its storytelling, not demands on what Nightwave should be. I am not saying "DE MAKE THIS NOW!", because they already have a lot on their plate. This is simply what my clanmates and I think Nightwave could be to make it less of a chore.

EDIT: Thank you to all who have supported this concept, I'm glad that others agree with this 🙂 If you have any suggestions/concerns please let me know so that we can make this concept more refined. Feedback, whether positive or negative, helps me to gauge how many of you are interested in this concept.

Now with that out of the way, I think its easier to show you what we have in mind rather than just tell you. Here are the concepts for a more connected, story focused Nightwave. I have bolded things to take away from this concept, but please take the time to read through the post to get a better understanding of what we were trying to make.

 

Part 1 - Less "BattlePass", more Quest

The first major change you will see is that the tiers and acts have been replaced with missions. Those in the community that want the old alert system back bring up a valid point; the alerts felt like the world was alive and gave meaning to running the missions. Nightwave doesn't do that. Sure, theres a story going on in the background, but why does Nora Night need you to bullet jump 150 times? The biggest complaint that I hear from Nightwave is that the acts have no impact on the story, or even matter to the story, which is why acts feel like a chore. They don't mean anything.

This is the biggest change to Nightwave, which is to add story to the acts. Don't worry, the rewards are staying with Nightwave, but they shouldn't be the sole focus. The rewards section has been replaced with Story Acts, special missions that help progress the story. The Daily/Weekly acts have also been replaced by missions, but these will act more like traditional alerts, but with a twist. For the story to really come across in Nightwave, all of the missions that you do in Nightwave are lead by Nora herself, instead of Lotus or Ordis.

During the Story Acts, players will complete objectives similar to how missions work in other Quests, while Nora narrates why you are there and your mission objective. Nora's broadcasts will unlock as you complete a certain amount of Story Quests to help sum up what happened and where the Nightwave is going next. To unlock the next Story Act, a certain amount of Daily/Weekly acts will need to be completed, working similarly to how tiers are unlocked now.

Daily/Weekly acts will be supplemental to the overall story of Nightwave, providing the player with more context and motivation for the next Story Act. For example; the latest Story Act concludes with you and Nora needing to hunt down Arlo, but you don't have his location. You decide to raid a Derelict looking for a follower of Arlo and bring them back for interrogation (Derelict Capture, as shown above). How you get the location of Arlo is based on what missions you want to do, and each additional Daily/Weekly act will play into the next part of the story. To explain this better, here is what a Weekly Act would look like with some story text. Note: Cred reward is a placeholder amount.

Here you can see that Nora needs you to bring in an Informant to help progress the main Story Acts. With this addition, it helps explain why you are doing the mission and how it will benefit the story. The Weekly and Daily missions will be the mission types, instead of a specific mission. In the example above, Nora needs you to capture a target to get information, but you will be able to decide what Capture Mission to do. Lets say that a Nightmare Capture is available, so you choose to do that Capture mission to fulfil the requirement. This way you can choose the missions that you want, and you can take these missions at your own pace. Thanks goes to Oreades for the inspiration to make this mockup.

To further this concept, modifiers could be applied to the mission types to help give them variety. Lets say for this Capture example, a requirement for it to count towards Nightwave is to "Complete the Capture in under 5 minutes." This would help give the missions more challenge, while still being accessible to all types of players. These bonus objectives will reward players with rare resources, like Oxium and Endo, thanks to D_Caedus for the inspiration. Other modifiers could be; Defense - Don't let the Defense Target take damage, Exterminate - Use only Warframe Powers, Spy - Complete the mission without being detected, etc. This challenge idea is still a work in progress, but the challenges should be accessible to New and Old players alike, unlike the "Defeat the Profit Taker" challenge.

 

Part 2 - The Rewards That YOU Want

Now I know a lot of you are eager to hear how the rewards will work with this new Nightwave, and one of my biggest problems with Nightwave is that you get a lot of rewards that you don't want. Some of my clanmates really like the glyphs and the cosmetics, but personally I couldn't care less about them. However, I liked the idea of purchasing the resources that you wanted in the Cred Offerings, because each player wants/needs something different. So for this new Nightwave, all of the rewards that would have been unlocked by tiers will be in the Cred Offerings store.

To go along with this, all of the Acts (Daily, Weekly, and Story) reward Creds for the Cred Offerings. This way, you choose the rewards that YOU want, and you can skip on the things that you don't. To help give players a goal to work towards, items in the Cred Offerings will not cycle week to week, and will remain as fixed items for purchase until the Nightwave Series is over. This will allow players to set their sights on certain items, without the fear of "missing out" on a reward (like the Wisp Alt Helm, thanks Oreades for the reminder). Certain items, like the Emissary Operator Skin, can only be purchased once, but items like Warframe Slots can be purchased multiple times as long as you have the creds for them.

To keep with the original intent of Nightwave, not all acts have to be completed. You will get enough Creds to purchase every item that would have been available in the reward tiers by completing ~60% of the Acts available during the Series. The goal for this change to the Cred Offerings is to let players decide what they want to work towards, and in what way they spend their time. Lets say that one week you need kuva, so you complete enough Acts to get yourself the kuva bundle. You could ignore the rest of Nightwave for that week if you wish. 

To help incentivize players to play the Story Acts, you could make it so that certain items, like the Emissary Operator Skin, are locked behind a certain amount of Story Acts. This would make it similar to how Syndicates work with their higher end rewards, but without having to sacrifice resources to rank up. This concept could be added for balance, but is not necessary.

 

Part 3 - A New Take On Warframe Quests, suggestion by TarusDeRoma

We all know that DE stated that Warframe quests would no longer be a thing, but Nightwave could offer up a potential solution to this. I, like many others, enjoy doing Warframe Quests because they add more to the world and they offer new experiences to Warframe. Its something new to enjoy, and it helps flesh out other aspects of the world.

With this new Nightwave, short Warframe Quests could appear when a new Warframe comes out in the form of additional Weekly Acts. These acts are their own self contained story, which grants you the opportunity to acquire the blueprints for the new Warframe. These quests don't have to be huge spectacles, but just offer some story behind the new Warframe and how it fits into the world. Personally I believe that the Warframe blueprints should be rewarded at the end of these missions, but they could also be added into the Cred Offerings table after the Quest Acts are complete.

Warframe Quests could also take the place of the Intermission Series for Nightwave, due to their shorter length. That way the Cred Offerings wont get overpopulated during any given series.

 

Nightwave has the potential to be something great and add depth to the world of Warframe, while providing new and old players alike with something new. As a clan we have discussed the potential issues with this system, but we have tried to iron out this concept as much as we can. Things like reward prices and the amount of Creds received per act are things we are still considering, but we wanted to get this concept out there for others to enjoy/think about. Let us know what you think about this concept and if there are any additional things we should consider.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I know this post is long.

Edited July 20, 2019 by DariusMcSwag

[TaurusDeRoma]

When I first heard about it, I thought they were doing something close to a weekly series of missions that feel like a quest. That would have made the whole farming the Wolf of Saturn Six a lot more tolerable than a glorified game of cat and mouse that was dependent on RNG. Overall, this current systems is more like a tedious checklist, with just some narration. It would be better if we got a Devotee summon blueprint or something to make them feel like they are an actual part of the world. So far the only lasting affect of Wolf was the lead up to Amalgams, making the title have little significance to the actual development. All that really revealed was a Grineer Prison that we'll never get to visit. It probably will be left untouched in The New War as well, which will be disappointing. 

As for The Wolf of Saturn Six, it should be a quest that actually focuses on the Wolf and his gang, not just a glorified tank and his fellow convicts.

Nora Nightwave would have been a great way to introduce some dynamic/ pseudo-quests that rewards things per mission, with a major prize at the end of the campaign.

[DariusMcSwag]

Just now, TaurusDeRoma said:

When I first heard about it, I thought they were doing something close to a weekly series of missions that feel like a quest. That would have made the whole farming the Wolf of Saturn Six a lot more tolerable than a glorified game of cat and mouse that was dependent on RNG. Overall, this current systems is more like a tedious checklist, with just some narration. It would be better if we got a Devotee summon blueprint or something to make them feel like they are an actual part of the world. So far the only lasting affect of Wolf was the lead up to Amalgams, making the title have little significance to the actual development. All that really revealed was a Grineer Prison that we'll never get to visit. It probably will be left untouched in The New War as well, which will be disappointing. 

As for The Wolf of Saturn Six, it should be a quest that actually focuses on the Wolf and his gang, not just a glorified tank and his fellow convicts.

Nora Nightwave would have been a great way to introduce some dynamic/ pseudo-quests that rewards things per mission, with a major prize at the end of the campaign.

I completely agree. Some of my clanmates have stopped doing Nightwave because either the "random challenges" are ridiculous or the fact that the Nightwave story doesn't actually mean anything. That's why we came up with this, because this is what we would like to see Nightwave become. 

Personally I would love to have fought the Wolf and his cronies with more of a story impact. Build up that relationship through some previous story interactions and it would have meant a whole lot more.

My clanmates and I were thinking that this could also potentially be a way to release new Warframes, rather than just add them to the market and say "Look a new Warframe!"

[TaurusDeRoma]

I'm always up for new quest frames. I'm really hoping they release a new Sentient frame, Revenant and his CC is too limited in the current public groups. 

This game has not enough quests, and only a few of them actually reward a complete frame. They could either do a nightwave weekly missions that tie together as a story, or make it into a quest after it is over. either way, there needs to be more interaction with the story besides having a unique NPC showing up out of nowhere. Like with the Wolf, he is too tanky, and the only way players would stick around was when they could go directly too him, when he was nerfed for the sake of the mission. He would have made for decent boss if he wasn't so bland and boring in his design. Now there is there Emissary, he would make for a great sidequest to explore the infestation in depth. So far the most developed factions are the Corpus, Grineer, and Sentients, while the Infestation is just left neglected on the side.

The new frames are either too RNG dependent in trying to get their parts, and quests gave players a definitive series of steps to get a new frame. Even the Vox Solaris frames are too grind intensive, and Garuda requires rank 4 with Solaris United. Boss locked frames are more preferable that locking them behind syndicates.

[DariusMcSwag]

14 minutes ago, TaurusDeRoma said:

They could either do a nightwave weekly missions that tie together as a story, or make it into a quest after it is over. either way, there needs to be more interaction with the story besides having a unique NPC showing up out of nowhere. 

I really like the idea of having separate Weekly Acts make up the missions/story for new Warframes. These missions could be added alongside Weeklys in their own section, like how you can select the Plague Star missions in Cetus. These missions don't even need voice acting, they could simply have codex entries or text before the mission starts, like sorties. I'll add this to the main post, thanks for the help!

18 minutes ago, TaurusDeRoma said:

The new frames are either too RNG dependent in trying to get their parts, and quests gave players a definitive series of steps to get a new frame. Even the Vox Solaris frames are too grind intensive, and Garuda requires rank 4 with Solaris United. Boss locked frames are more preferable that locking them behind syndicates.

The grind for Baruuk is what NOT to do for new Warframes. Personally I think Hildryn and Wisp are a step in the right direction, because it goes back to the classic formula.

[TaurusDeRoma]

6 hours ago, DariusMcSwag said:

The grind for Baruuk is what NOT to do for new Warframes. Personally I think Hildryn and Wisp are a step in the right direction, because it goes back to the classic formula.

Those frames have little to no story to them, sure they make getting frames easy, but then there will be too many bosses in the game, and not enough lore. Either add a monologue like they did with Ropapolyst, or do quests. If they do quest frames, then their acquisition should not be scattered across the star chart, but concentrated in one particular part of the star chart. Bounties are to random in their rewards, and might not have the part in rotation when needed. Having them drop from bosses is a nice return to form, but maybe they should also have some variety, or else players will get bored with fighting the same boss over and over again. My suggestion is have them tied to specific planets, not necessarily the boss, but keep them associated with the boss. Maybe a prize room that the boss stores their spoils of war, make them have more lore tied to them, instead of generic boss that you have to farm until you get lucky. Some players are not very lucky when it comes to farming frames, they have to do at a lot of runs just to get the part they need.

Also, having bundle exclusives, such as the Baruuk Mandala, makes players disinclined to farm for the frame, since the have to choose between spending platinum or building the frame which makes buying the bundle not as appealing.

[DariusMcSwag]

6 minutes ago, TaurusDeRoma said:

My suggestion is have them tied to specific planets, not necessarily the boss, but keep them associated with the boss. Maybe a prize room that the boss stores their spoils of war, make them have more lore tied to them, instead of generic boss that you have to farm until you get lucky. Some players are not very lucky when it comes to farming frames, they have to do at a lot of runs just to get the part they need.

I added a Part 3 talking about Warframe Quests and how they could be implemented with this Nightwave concept. I like the idea of making the Warframe story somehow related to the boss of a planet, however I think that it might be easier for players to acquire the Warframe blueprints if they were in the Cred Offerings, kind of like Vauban.

Adding Quests to Nightwave also opens up the possibility for adding older Operations to the Nightwave index as well. There are some year one Operations that I missed out on, and I would love for there to be a way to play them now.

[TaurusDeRoma]

I agree with the quests rewarding blueprints, but I also think open worlds should have 1 frame associated with them, like the current pattern is with PoE and Vallis, but getting them should be less grind intensive. Steel Meridian and Arbiters still don't have their own frames. They should at the very least get their own frames, with most of the rest coming from Nightwave and some of the new bosses, like they old pattern. Other than that, I think tying quests to Nightwave is probably the best solution to where to put new frames, unless the breaks between seasons are going to drag out.

[DariusMcSwag]

1 minute ago, TaurusDeRoma said:

I agree with the quests rewarding blueprints, but I also think open worlds should have 1 frame associated with them, like the current pattern is with PoE and Vallis, but getting them should be less grind intensive. Steel Meridian and Arbiters still don't have their own frames. They should at the very least get their own frames, with most of the rest coming from Nightwave and some of the new bosses, like they old pattern. Other than that, I think tying quests to Nightwave is probably the best solution to where to put new frames, unless the breaks between seasons are going to drag out.

You bring up an interesting point about the Intermissions. Honestly this is where Warframe Quests could go. If the release schedule is wonky, they can be added in as extra Weekly Acts, but I would like them to have their own spotlight. That way they would feel less tacked on.

I would love to see more of the Syndicates in Quests in general. It would be awesome to see the syndicates either working together or fighting each other during these Weekly/Story Quests, helping to cement their role in the world.

I like seeing these great ideas. Keep them coming! Hopefully others will add in their input as well.

[SnowWarFr]

On 2019-07-16 at 1:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

Hello fellow Tenno,

I have seen a lot of posts recently in regards to Nightwave and how it burns out players. Personally I like having things to do in the game, but I agree with others that there is no reason to DO the "acts" for Nightwave, other than the rewards. It feels tedious, time consuming, and unrewarding. When I first saw the concept for Nightwave, I thought that it would be more story focused then it turned out to be. The story is here for Nightwave, but it almost seems secondary to the list of chores you are given to do every week. Nightwave has a lot of potential to help the game as a whole, but as it stands right now, it is hurting the game more than it is helping.

DISCLAIMER: These are merely concepts on how to improve Nightwave and its storytelling, not demands on what Nightwave should be. I am not saying "DE MAKE THIS NOW!", because they already have a lot on their plate. This is simply what my clanmates and I think Nightwave could be to make it less of a chore.

Now with that out of the way, I think its easier to show you what we have in mind rather than just tell you. Here are the concepts for a more connected, story focused Nightwave. I have bolded things to take away from this concept, but please take the time to read through the post to get a better understanding of what we were trying to make.

 

Part 1 - Less "BattlePass", more Quest

The first major change you will see is that the tiers and acts have been replaced with missions. Those in the community that want the old alert system back bring up a valid point; the alerts felt like the world was alive and gave meaning to running the missions. Nightwave doesn't do that. Sure, theres a story going on in the background, but why does Nora Night need you to bullet jump 150 times? The biggest complaint that I hear from Nightwave is that the acts have no impact on the story, or even matter to the story, which is why acts feel like a chore. They don't mean anything.

This is the biggest change to Nightwave, which is to add story to the acts. Don't worry, the rewards are staying with Nightwave, but they shouldn't be the sole focus. The rewards section has been replaced with Story Acts, special missions that help progress the story. The Daily/Weekly acts have also been replaced by missions, but these will act more like traditional alerts, but with a twist. For the story to really come across in Nightwave, all of the missions that you do in Nightwave are lead by Nora herself, instead of Lotus or Ordis.

During the Story Acts, players will complete objectives similar to how missions work in other Quests, while Nora narrates why you are there and your mission objective. Nora's broadcasts will unlock as you complete a certain amount of Story Quests to help sum up what happened and where the Nightwave is going next. To unlock the next Story Act, a certain amount of Daily/Weekly acts will need to be completed, working similarly to how tiers are unlocked now.

Daily/Weekly acts will be supplemental to the overall story of Nightwave, providing the player with more context and motivation for the next Story Act. For example; the latest Story Act concludes with you and Nora needing to hunt down Arlo, but you don't have his location. You decide to raid a Derelict looking for a follower of Arlo and bring them back for interrogation (Derelict Capture, as shown above). How you get the location of Arlo is based on what missions you want to do, and each additional Daily/Weekly act will play into the next part of the story.

 

Part 2 - The Rewards That YOU Want

Now I know a lot of you are eager to hear how the rewards will work with this new Nightwave, and one of my biggest problems with Nightwave is that you get a lot of rewards that you don't want. Some of my clanmates really like the glyphs and the cosmetics, but personally I couldn't care less about them. However, I liked the idea of purchasing the resources that you wanted in the Cred Offerings, because each player wants/needs something different. So for this new Nightwave, all of the rewards that would have been unlocked by tiers will be in the Cred Offerings store.

To go along with this, all of the Acts (Daily, Weekly, and Story) reward Creds for the Cred Offerings. This way, you choose the rewards that YOU want, and you can skip on the things that you don't. Certain items, like the Emissary Operator Skin, can only be purchased once, but items like Warframe Slots can be purchased multiple times as long as you have the creds for them.

To help incentivize players to play the Story Acts, you could make it so that certain items, like the Emissary Operator Skin, are locked behind a certain amount of Story Acts. This would make it similar to how Syndicates work with their higher end rewards, but without having to sacrifice resources to rank up.

 

Part 3 - A New Take On Warframe Quests, suggestion by TarusDeRoma

We all know that DE stated that Warframe quests would no longer be a thing, but Nightwave could offer up a potential solution to this. I, like many others, enjoy doing Warframe Quests because they add more to the world and they offer new experiences to Warframe. Its something new to enjoy, and it helps flesh out other aspects of the world.

With this new Nightwave, short Warframe Quests could appear when a new Warframe comes out in the form of additional Weekly Acts. These acts are their own self contained story, which grants you the opportunity to acquire the blueprints for the new Warframe. These quests don't have to be huge spectacles, but just offer some story behind the new Warframe and how it fits into the world. Personally I believe that the Warframe blueprints should be rewarded at the end of these missions, but they could also be added into the Cred Offerings table after the Quest Acts are complete.

 

Nightwave has the potential to be something great and add depth to the world of Warframe, while providing new and old players alike with something new. As a clan we have discussed the potential issues with this system, but we have tried to iron out this concept as much as we can. Things like reward prices and the amount of Creds received per act are things we are still considering, but we wanted to get this concept out there for others to enjoy/think about. Let us know what you think about this concept and if there are any additional things we should consider.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I know this post is long.

Never mind my suggestion. THIS IS GREAT!

There's one problem: Will they have time to do all of this?

[DariusMcSwag]

Just now, SnowWarFr said:

Never mind my suggestion. THIS IS GREAT!

There's one problem: Will they have time to do all of this?

They don't necessarily have to voice act the whole thing, they could simply put text files before the missions. Honestly this is what my clanmates and I thought Nightwave was going to be when they announced it.

Thanks for liking it 🙂

[DariusMcSwag]

4 minutes ago, SnowWarFr said:

Never mind my suggestion. THIS IS GREAT!

There's one problem: Will they have time to do all of this?

They don't necessarily have to voice act the whole thing, they could simply put text files before the missions. Honestly this is what my clanmates and I thought Nightwave was going to be when they announced it.

Thanks for liking it 🙂

Ive been tempted to move this post to the General section of the forums so that more people can see it. Perhaps I should

*Woops posted twice

Edited July 17, 2019 by DariusMcSwag
posted twice

[BloodRavenCap]

Yeah, it really works.

I've already complained before, that Nightwave, when announced, sounded ike a good place to tell stories. Instead, we got a list of chores to do. 

I really like your system and I think it would be a lot better, than what we have now. Also, really love the stories idea. It might not be much, but it's still miles better than having no story at all. 

[DariusMcSwag]

29 minutes ago, BloodRavenCap said:

Yeah, it really works.

I've already complained before, that Nightwave, when announced, sounded ike a good place to tell stories. Instead, we got a list of chores to do. 

I really like your system and I think it would be a lot better, than what we have now. Also, really love the stories idea. It might not be much, but it's still miles better than having no story at all. 

I completely agree. The stories don't have to be these huge spectacles, just fascinating enough to keep interest week to week. I'm especially excited about the possibilities of having Warframe Quests be the Nightwave Intermissions.

For those that want to help support this idea (and I really hate to sound needy like this) please like/upvote this concept to help keep it relevant. I will try to do so, but it would be a lot easier with your help.

[KroneVanguard]

On 2019-07-16 at 8:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

Hello fellow Tenno,

[...]

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I know this post is long.

They should hire you, Sir. If they'll do something similar to what you described, I will return to the game. 👏👏👏

[DariusMcSwag]

14 minutes ago, KroneVanguard said:

They should hire you, Sir. If they'll do something similar to what you described, I will return to the game. 👏👏👏

No joke, I actually submitted my application about a week ago. Was waiting for graduate school stuff and was like "what the hell, the worst thing they could do is say no"

So who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just want the game to be as great as I know it can be, and I couldn't have done it without the feedback from others.

Also, thank you so much for the kind words 😊

Edited July 18, 2019 by DariusMcSwag

[TaurusDeRoma]

Also, if you have any ideas to add, or any suggestions on how to improve the concept so far, that would be appreciated as well.

[KroneVanguard]

On 2019-07-16 at 8:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

The rewards section has been replaced with Story Acts, special missions that help progress the story. The Daily/Weekly acts have also been replaced by missions, but these will act more like traditional alerts, but with a twist.

This is my favorite part. ☝️  That screen is really appealing. It says: "play me". Great job. 👏👏👏

[Oreades]

On 2019-07-16 at 2:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

Those in the community that want the old alert system back bring up a valid point; the alerts felt like the world was alive and gave meaning to running the missions.

I'd like some of the alerts they where smoking because I never once got the feeling that the world was alive because of Alerts. The only meaning I ever remember getting from running Alerts was "I get a potato at the end of this". 

You know what made the world feel more alive than Alerts, the random chatter on the radio in your orbiter and that was what like 4 blurbs on repeat. 

While it would be wonderful if there where multiple full narrated story segments in Nightwave that would probably septuple t it's development cost in VA alone. Maybe once Nightwave is has proven itself they might but that's a big investment in time/resources/money for content that is going to be used once and never revisited. Which is another thing DE has been trying to stay away from. I'm not talking quests in general, I'm talking more one time events. Tho each episode of Nightwave has been a somewhat "one time event" per say, tho people who missed out on the rewards can still view all the cinematic and for the most part it isn't like they've missed out on specific "event" exclusive missions. Aaaad no I'm not talking about the Wolf Boss fight, I'm talking more akin to things like The Index that was previously an entire mission type that was only available during an event. 

 

Recently there was a Nightwave challenge to fight Silver Grove Specters, the most pervasive complaint I recall reading was from people complaining that they where being forced to complete the Silver Grove quest. Which isn't exactly true because you could just keep spawning the same specter over and over again but they felt as if they where obligated to undertake a story quest they didn't enjoy. Not that the silver grove is a super enjoyable quest (especially the timegated scanning on earth, OK mostly the time gated scanning on earth) but it's hardly something worth complaining about IMHO, tho I did build my AW gear up to solo the Jordas golem before AW was "cool" so maybe I'm just a monster and boring quests just don't phase me. Now imagine Nightwave is a series of interlinking story quests.... Don't do what you want, come do this thing instead. 

Nighwave if anything should be more general so the playerbase can play the game like they want and still make progress towards Nightwave rewards. Forced Story quests while admittedly possibly interesting don't do that. 

 

On 2019-07-16 at 2:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

but why does Nora Night need you to bullet jump 150 times?

Because it is something literally anyone can do within standard gameplay sessions. The whole point of Nighwave is to get people to log in and engage the game. 

The problem is instead of doing 150 bullet jumps over the course of one or two days (or maybe 5-6 missions?).... the chuckleheads complaining are trying to get all 150 in in a single mission by bullet jumping against a wall and then whining that their experience wasn't engaging. The mission was not the problem, the way they chose to attack the task was the problem and that's a "between the chair and keyboard issue" not a Warframe issue. 

 

On 2019-07-16 at 2:41 PM, DariusMcSwag said:

The biggest complaint that I hear from Nightwave is that the acts have no impact on the story, or even matter to the story, which is why acts feel like a chore. They don't mean anything.

They are literally a chore and they don't mean anything, they are a mechanism to get people to log in and engage in the game while occasionally ringing the reward center of the brain with a "Congratulations you did a thing!"

 

All of that said I would like to see more quests within Warframe, like Vors Prize, like The Second Dream, like The War Within but Nightwave is IMHO not the place for that. Because if they are going to make that sort of investment it needs to be put in the game in a way that anyone can access/enjoy it from the moment it is added to the game until the day Warframe shuts down. Again Nightwave does not do that.  

[KroneVanguard]

8 minutes ago, Oreades said:

The whole point of Nighwave is to get people to log in and engage the game.

I'm downloading a different FtP game right now. 🖕 The whole point massively failed. And I won't return if they don't fix this piece of 💩 uninteresting Nightwave.

[DariusMcSwag]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Nighwave if anything should be more general so the playerbase can play the game like they want and still make progress towards Nightwave rewards. Forced Story quests while admittedly possibly interesting don't do that.

Thank you for your feedback. This would not be a forced story quest, but more like an ongoing narrative that progresses a story forward. Nightwave as it stands now is not forced on players, and neither would this.

7 minutes ago, Oreades said:

While it would be wonderful if there where multiple full narrated story segments in Nightwave that would probably septuple t it's development cost in VA alone. Maybe once Nightwave is has proven itself they might but that's a big investment in time/resources/money for content that is going to be used once and never revisited. Which is another thing DE has been trying to stay away from. I'm not talking quests in general, I'm talking more one time events. Tho each episode of Nightwave has been a somewhat "one time event" per say, tho people who missed out on the rewards can still view all the cinematic and for the most part it isn't like they've missed out on specific "event" exclusive missions. Aaaad no I'm not talking about the Wolf Boss fight, I'm talking more akin to things like The Index that was previously an entire mission type that was only available during an event. 

I agree it would be nice to have multiple full narrated story quests in Nightwave, but this concept is not reliant on it. The Story Acts could easily be variants on already existing mission types, with some context text helping to drive the narrative forward. I will mockup this to show what I mean. Ideally the main story beats would be available in the Nightwave index, like how it works now, so that people who missed out on that Season could still get the story. I also don't imagine these missions to be brand new ones, but missions similar to how you excavate for the Archwing blueprints in The Archwing Quest (not the best example, but it was the first one to come to mind).

14 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Now imagine Nightwave is a series of interlinking story quests.... Don't do what you want, come do this thing instead.

Sorties work the same way, as do Sanctuary Onslaught, Arbitrations, Invasions, Syndicate Missions, Fissures, etc. The difference between those and this concept is that the Daily and Weekly Missions will be varied, and would hopefully include ties to the previously mentioned mission types. Unlike a traditional Quest or the previous examples, you would be able to select the type of mission that you want to do.

Lets say you login to Warframe and you check Nightwave, the Weekly Missions include an Exterminate, a Spy, a Syndicate Interception, Free Roam POE, Derelict Defense, and a Nightmare Hive. The Daily available for today is a Lith Fissure Capture. You are looking for Mutagen Samples to fund the research of the Hema for your Clan, so you choose Derelict Defense (in this situation, you do not need a key for this mission). When you select it, text appears to the side of the mission saying what the mission is, any modifiers on it, and how it connects to the overarching story.

Thank you for this feedback, all criticism helps to refine the concept. If you have any more suggestions, please post them. No concept can be perfect right out of the gate, and if the concept is just not for you, its good to know why.

[DariusMcSwag]

6 minutes ago, KroneVanguard said:

I'm downloading a different FtP game right now. 🖕 The whole point massively failed. And I won't return if they don't fix this piece of 💩 uninteresting Nightwave.

Nightwave still has some growing to do, and I really don't like how it has turned off so many players. Some of my clan have stopped playing because of this, and that was one of the main inspirations for this concept. They tried something new, and unfortunately it hasn't gone over well.

The best thing we can do is to help explain why we don't like the current Nightwave, and offer suggestions for them to consider when refining the idea.

[KroneVanguard]

29 minutes ago, DariusMcSwag said:

Nightwave still has some growing to do, and I really don't like how it has turned off so many players. Some of my clan have stopped playing because of this, and that was one of the main inspirations for this concept. They tried something new, and unfortunately it hasn't gone over well.

The best thing we can do is to help explain why we don't like the current Nightwave, and offer suggestions for them to consider when refining the idea.

You are perfectly right. What hurts me the most, is I have the feeling most people play whatever 💩 the game throws at you, finding stupid excuses, without using their damn brains. So they'll think: it's fine, they're playing it, it's all good". No, it's not good, it's a 💩. I won't waste my time on this anymore. 🙅‍♂️

Edited July 18, 2019 by KroneVanguard

[DariusMcSwag]

36 minutes ago, DariusMcSwag said:

I agree it would be nice to have multiple full narrated story quests in Nightwave, but this concept is not reliant on it. The Story Acts could easily be variants on already existing mission types, with some context text helping to drive the narrative forward. I will mockup this to show what I mean.

I've made the mockup to show what Weekly Acts could look like. Let me know what you think.

[KroneVanguard]

4 minutes ago, DariusMcSwag said:

I've made the mockup to show what Weekly Acts could look like. Let me know what you think.

I think it's good. It's entertaining. For what can count my opinion...