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DConagher

A Proposed Atlas Rework to Ship With His *DElayed* Prime, Pt2!

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59 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Even the best rivens and mod augments cannot give you what just CO gives you, not even close. So if damage is your main fear, you'd actually gain a lot of it. 

Until you fix his initial stat problems relating to landslide status percentage, CO is not a viable choice for him, because by the time you arent one->three punching enemies you have already passed multiple hours in mot. With even a moderate combo counter, his 1 can hit hundreds of thousands damage numbers. 

The reason rivens and augments are so good at the moment is because of how they stack with other mods. Since landslide is purely impact, adding impact mods are unique more effective to the total damage then if landslide was split among slash/impact/puncture. 

 

If landslide got a buff to its status and crit so it can reliably use CO, then sure, give it its own stat screen, otherwise no

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-17 at 6:09 PM, DConagher said:

Secondly, his Rubble.

The current cap of his Rubble system (1500) is rather simple to keep over 1,000 at the minimum, and honestly seems like an under-utilized system; 

You know, I didn't notice it until now, but:

Atlas needs to constantly upkeep his supply of Rubble with frequent ability casting and enemy slaying to eventually get up to 1500 Armor, which rapidly decays over time to zero. Alternatively, the Rubble can heal him instead of providing that Armor. You can also destroy your summoned AI helpers for drops of Rubble.

Meanwhile, (new) Wukong casts a single ability to go invincible, do an AoE attack, and get up to the same 1500 Armor, which remains at its maximum for a long duration before disappearing. For healing, Wukong can use a different single cast of an ability to go invincible and regain health while also stunning enemies and healing his (more effective) summoned AI helper.

Atlas is okay right now, but can whoever looked at Wukong do a similar look with our punchy guy?

Edited by SenorClipClop

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51 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

You know, I didn't notice it until now, but:

Atlas needs to constantly upkeep his supply of Rubble with frequent ability casting and enemy slaying to eventually get up to 1500 Armor, which rapidly decays over time to zero. Alternatively, the Rubble can heal him instead of providing that Armor. You can also destroy your summoned AI helpers for drops of Rubble.

Meanwhile, (new) Wukong casts a single ability to go invincible, do an AoE attack, and get up to the same 1500 Armor, which remains at its maximum for a long duration before disappearing. For healing, Wukong can use a different single cast of an ability to go invincible and regain health while also stunning enemies and healing his (more effective) summoned AI helper.

Atlas is okay right now, but can whoever looked at Wukong do a similar look with our punchy guy?

That would be Pablo, the god of reworks. He also did Nezha, Sayrn, and worked on Nidus 

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Oh based pablo god, please bless our cocky rocky friend with a rework.

 

 

-Atlas mains worldwide

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56 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

That would be Pablo, the god of reworks.

Hyperbole much?

56 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

He also did....Sayrn...

Ah yes - the Plague Queen of Hydron and the Nuker of Maps. The go-to for ESO and Defense. The 'Frame with an ability set that's extremely good at preventing other people from actually killing anything. Saryn's a really good reason to actually keep him away from Atlas.

With that mentioned, I will agree that Wukong is in a much better place than he used to be and right now, the only thing that redeems Pablo in my book. Everything else he's touched has been either mediocre and uninspired or tends to forget that it has to play well with others - and usually to the detriment of other players.

With regard to our rock star Warframe, it would indeed be nice to see his wall get a little bit wider and for Petrify to be able to heal it. I also agree that Petrify is rather costly for what it does; perhaps have it only cost energy based on how many targets it hits? Seriously, if you don't catch enough targets in Pertify's cone, that's a pretty expensive cast for little gain.

That being said, Atlas is arguably pretty solid. He could definitely benefit from some QoL tweaks but I really don't think he needs a full-blown rework.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, DConagher said:

Uncapping Atlas's Rubble

I wanted to touch on this a little bit, actually.

I don't think uncapping his Rubble would do much. My build for Atlas includes both Steel Fiber and Armored Agility. I *COULD* toss in... I think it was a Gladiator mod, the name escapes me, and get even more. But those 2 mods bring me to just under 1200 without Rubble's armor.

When I spend enough Energy to get Rubble up to the cap of 1500, that puts me to between 2500 and 2700 armor (depending on how much I let Rubble decay, which is a really annoying feature of the mechanic).

At about 1200 armor, I have about 80% DR. 2700 armor brings me to 90% damage reduction, so that 1500 Rubble is worth an extra 10% DR.

Do you know how much DR another 1500 would add? 3%

My point is that I don't think uncapping Rubble would bring that much benefit. Armor has diminishing returns. Atlas surviving in a fight pretty much relies on him properly using his invulnerability phase, and also Petrifying tough enemies so they DON'T damage him - Not to mention Rumblers and Tectonics are both supposed to help mitigate what damage he takes. (both abilities, obviously, are where his kit falls short right now)

I don't think uncapping the Rubble actually solves anything, but as another poster above me suggested... it would result in some ridiculous Rubble numbers. And I'd rather not base Atlas' kit around maintaining 30k+ Rubble to avoid death.

3 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

You know, I didn't notice it until now, but:

Atlas needs to constantly upkeep his supply of Rubble with frequent ability casting and enemy slaying to eventually get up to 1500 Armor, which rapidly decays over time to zero. Alternatively, the Rubble can heal him instead of providing that Armor. You can also destroy your summoned AI helpers for drops of Rubble.

Meanwhile, (new) Wukong casts a single ability to go invincible, do an AoE attack, and get up to the same 1500 Armor, which remains at its maximum for a long duration before disappearing. For healing, Wukong can use a different single cast of an ability to go invincible and regain health while also stunning enemies and healing his (more effective) summoned AI helper.

Atlas is okay right now, but can whoever looked at Wukong do a similar look with our punchy guy?

That's actually why, in this thread, I actually suggested Rubble also restore energy to Atlas (plus reduced energy costs). I wouldn't mind the active management setup for Rubble if he could manage his own Energy without the Gear items.

7 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Im one of the people who will say no to making atlas 1 exalted.

I second this, but mostly from a design perspective in that I don't really enjoy exalted weapons that much... and I like Atlas' current setup with how Landslide works.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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4 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I wanted to touch on this a little bit, actually.

When I suggest that rubble be uncapped, i also mention the need to reduce the amount per piece, and give it the concept of having abilities scale off your total rubble, being buffed by your current amount and taking a percentage, but changing how the ability works as well (such as making tectonics a ring if you have enough rubble or making petridy an aoe). Thats why I suggest a uncapped rubble, not just fir the armor

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4 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Do you know how much DR another 1500 would add? 3%

My point is that I don't think uncapping Rubble would bring that much benefit. Armor has diminishing returns. Atlas surviving in a fight pretty much relies on him properly using his invulnerability phase, and also Petrifying tough enemies so they DON'T damage him - Not to mention Rumblers and Tectonics are both supposed to help mitigate what damage he takes. (both abilities, obviously, are where his kit falls short right now

 

What you mention about the armor is part of reason I wanted it un-capped instead of just "flat number". Its not going to change much "damage resistance wise" having 3,000 rubble instead of 1,500, as you've said. You would still have retarded survival, so totally "Uncapping" it *could* have that issue.

My main worry is based off current day. Even with the decay rate changed, Its not "easy" to maintain at exactly 1500 rubble. Increasing the amount Atlas can "hold" would let him have more freedom of use with his new rubble focused abilities, especially since I accidentally made his 2 and 4 costs a bit too low in my proposed options in the second changelist. The goal was for his 4 to cost about 500, and for all of his 2 creations together to cost anywhere from 250-500. Spending 2/3rds of your available rubble, easy to generate or not, in exchange for some very impactful abilities, is still reasonably expensive. Setting his cap to that 3,000 mark you mentioned puts it to 1/3rd your cap. I'd rather not just reduce the cost of his 2 and 4 to be 1/3rd of your 1,500 cap, because I want it to actually be you spending rubble to accomplish things.

I want rubble to have some truly felt force in what he does, rather than just being another Nidus.
 

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42 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

When I suggest that rubble be uncapped, i also mention the need to reduce the amount per piece, and give it the concept of having abilities scale off your total rubble, being buffed by your current amount and taking a percentage, but changing how the ability works as well (such as making tectonics a ring if you have enough rubble or making petridy an aoe). Thats why I suggest a uncapped rubble, not just fir the armor

^ Basically this. Part of the original concerns brought up with the rubble changes was that Atlas has it a bit difficult according to some to generate his rubble, so I neglected to include that in the 2nd proposed list. As for it taking a %, that might make it annoying to farm up a reasonable amount when every ping takes off a chunk of your stock.

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Little bump to bring up
A: HIS PRIME IS NO LONGER DELAYED :D!
and B: Here's a thought- What if DE combined his 2 into his 4, call it Terraform, and basically make them one ability? Could function like wisps buffs or khora cat, tap cast to make a wall, hold cast to make a golem, with a summon limit of like, 4, and then give him a new second ability? New 4 could also be an interesting use to spend your rubble.

He's a *Brawler* frame, not just a boxer... maybe a new kick attack for his 2? Almost seems like it could be fused with landslide, but the idea of them being separate has some cool aspects to it. The boot could function similar to landslide, and in the process open up a neat way to add some more animations/options- effectively creating his own MMA type stance: Have it be a 3-5 hit combo (kinda like landslide does now with its 0-2-4, probably stick with about the same numbers here), made up of either his 1 or his new 2.The cool part is that these various attacks could do different effects on the last hit based on the build-up.
Landslide as of right now is a 1.R. straight, then 1.L.hook, then 1.R. uppercut loop.
What if he, as an example, did a 1.R. Straight, followed by a 2. left kick, and led that maybe into a 2.right roundhouse, as a basic 1-2-2 combo?
Or maybe he leads with a more or less 2."Falcon" kick, followed by a quick short 1.uppercut and then a 1.left straight, as a 2-1-1? Most of the animations could probably be pulled from the Sparring and Fist weapon stances fairly easily, and the last hit effects could be something as simple as reduced damage with more range, increased rubble gen from kills, maybe one that costs rubble to hit harder. It'd be cool to see your Rumblers mimic you as well. Get a decent group of golems together and you'd be a squad of monks practicing martial arts as you combo your way through the vessels. I'd LOVE to see one big boot that launches people into orbit, like the old Sonicor, or Boros giving Saitama the free ride to the moon.

It would be a lot of data and combinations, but aside from the complexity of hitting 1 then 2 then 2 again, instead of 1.1.1 (and,you'd still have the 1.1.1 combo!), it shouldn't be too drastic a change. And that also could let his 1 and new 2 have different interactions with his new 4th, allowing you to landslide into the wall to roll it like a boulder (Like we can now, no loss of function if you like playing Rolling Stones), or landslide into a golem to do aoe damage and disperse it for rubble. I'd love to be able kick into the golem to wear it (GIVE US THE CONCLAVE MOD FOR PVE, PLEASE!!!!!) and maybe kicking into the wall bounces you in the direct the walls facing? (I don't know about this one, I'd love some feedback/ideas)

Honestly, some of this is my own wants of just more animations to do, as I've probably used landslide alone atleast a few hundred thousand times by now, what with my average abilities used even per short mission being commonly over 1k.

I think this string of sense could have some merit though, and him being able to sort of "Build" his own combo attacks off his various kicks and punches could be really neat, + this idea doesn't drastically change his character or playstyle- just expands on it a bit. Thoughts? 😄

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First, he needs the new melee modding system like excal / wukong. And for every 150 amor gained (displayed in armor UI), his landslide will also gain 15% base crit chance and status chance to compensate for being unable to use the riven mod  This also make it more meaningful to build up his armor meter. 

second, he needs a faster way to gain armor...like wukong....I mean..  common. My suggestion would be him casting Tectonic then players press X to consume the rock wall and turn it into 750 armor.instantly. this will make his 2nd more useful.

Third, his 3rd ability need to be cheaper to cast. 75 energy is too much for what it does

Finally, his rumble should have the time limit remove like wukong, Rumbler's attack should benefit from melee mods for landslide. For each every 150 armor gained from either dropped stones or tectonic, rumblers gain addtional 15% crit chance and status chance like landslide (cap at 1500 and reduce overtime equal to his armor UI). Each rumblers' attack will increase melee combo counter for atlas.

 

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While there is always hope I doubt a big ability rework is on the table given DE's busy schedule, lack of communication on Atlas and the disappointment that were the Nyx and Titania Reworks.

So a quick and easy fix in my mind to bring some good synergy to his kit and maintaining or even improving the feeling of being an unstoppable Landslide on the battlefield would be to remove Rumblers duration and make it so whenever the Atlas uses Landslide or Petrify the Rumblers use these abilities on their current targets too.

Would be very unique to the frame and incentivize active play and positioning relative to your rumblers. All things DE seems to like with recent frame releases.

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I love Atlas as is, but I don't mind a few tweaks, especially to his 2 and 4 (maybe his 2 should have 4 walls by default, without any augment, like Frost can haer 4 globes)

I just don't want DE to "Ember" him just a few days/weeks before we finally get his Prime version, which in a good position for my first Umbra forma usage (yeah that's how much I like him)

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On 2019-07-17 at 6:09 PM, DConagher said:

Furthermore, this ability would have a cooldown based on ability duration (Starting at 10 seconds).

I see no reason for a cooldown.

 

You say it will consume rubble to be effective, so it's already limited. And you are going to double limit it with a cooldown?

 

And since you want a volcano theme for the fourth, I'd suggest that it do some heat damage to represent the heat of lava, and then petrification of whatever that is not destroyed by the initial heat - to represent when the lava cools down and petrifies things. Instead of just a plain AOE explosion or whatever.

Edited by Xepthrichros

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On 2019-09-16 at 1:28 PM, Windy_Wind said:

First, he needs the new melee modding system like excal / wukong. 

 

No, he doesnt. His landslide is an ability cast, like rhino charge, not just a hand held frame weapon like wukong/excal. 

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15 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

No, he doesnt. His landslide is an ability cast, like rhino charge, not just a hand held frame weapon like wukong/excal. 

To be fair, he does summon 2 rock fists when using his ability, and it does scale with weapon mods (unlike Rhino's charge)

Having an additional moddable rock fist weapon would prevent having to heavily mod his melee weapon to benefit his Landslide (so no speed mod, no reach mod, no healing mod, ...)

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2 hours ago, Tatann said:

To be fair, he does summon 2 rock fists when using his ability, and it does scale with weapon mods (unlike Rhino's charge)

Having an additional moddable rock fist weapon would prevent having to heavily mod his melee weapon to benefit his Landslide (so no speed mod, no reach mod, no healing mod, ...)

While its true giving him a moddable ability would remove some of the hassles of having stat sticks, I dont think the positives out weight the negatives in this case. Atlas is able to mod his melee weapon to buff landslide in such a way that no other frame can do. Except khora (who cant use rivens/augments/other mods) no other frame can do what he does. 

His landslide gains effects from: 

most any mod (although he doesnt benefit from crit or status)

weapon augments

riven mods 

weapon specific bonuses (mires 10% bonus toxin damage)

skin bonuses (scindo skin that increases damage by 15% for 15% less attack speed) 

combo counter (including venka prime buff)

and all of these are unable to be used for pre-moddable weapons like exalted blade. This would drastically hurt atlas’ possible damage output. 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

While its true giving him a moddable ability would remove some of the hassles of having stat sticks, I dont think the positives out weight the negatives in this case. Atlas is able to mod his melee weapon to buff landslide in such a way that no other frame can do. Except khora (who cant use rivens/augments/other mods) no other frame can do what he does. 

His landslide gains effects from: 

most any mod (although he doesnt benefit from crit or status)

weapon augments

riven mods 

weapon specific bonuses (mires 10% bonus toxin damage)

skin bonuses (scindo skin that increases damage by 15% for 15% less attack speed) 

combo counter (including venka prime buff)

and all of these are unable to be used for pre-moddable weapons like exalted blade. This would drastically hurt atlas’ possible damage output. 

But it would allow to bring an efficient melee weapon, that can be used when out of energy, can heal you, proc corrosive/viral, etc...

The current way only allow more damage (especially "thanks" to the broken riven system), the other way would bring utility/versatility

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On 2019-09-18 at 6:01 AM, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

No, he doesnt. 

I did say, he should get bonus crit chance and status chance on his fist to compensate for the riven....

PS: with the current way of modding his land slide, there is absolutely no reason to use him him a sorties or any mission in the future that has "no meleee weapon" hindering his landslide..and that's why they put the seprate modding screen for wukong mesa and excal's exalted weapons...

Edited by Windy_Wind

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