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moostar95

Hildryn the forgotten

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7 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Well, maybe not 100%, but so what?

 

Because Armor strip cant sum to 100% might as well not be there. That's how this game works and scales.

You strip 90% of a lvl 100 Napalm's armor and they still have 71% mitigation.

Nothing she does is particularly good. It's a buncha noises and graphics that don't accomplish much.

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Just now, Xzorn said:

 

Because Armor strip cant sum to 100% might as well not be there. That's how this game works and scales.

You strip 90% of a lvl 100 Napalm's armor and they still have 71% mitigation.

Nothing she does is particularly good. It's a buncha noises and graphics that don't accomplish much.

Well that's your real problem. DE doesn't balance this game around high level content. They balance it around casual gameplay.

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400% strength gives 100% reduction in armor. 325% strength + specter Nidus gives 100% armor reduction. If you this is important, then you commit a special build. Don't see problem.

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35 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Blame the booty.

That really is what it comes down to. Have you seen the prodigious assets she wields?

I have and I give you mag deluxe, mesa, and gara. Mostly because you can see it.

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19 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Well that's your real problem. DE doesn't balance this game around high level content. They balance it around casual gameplay.

 

Level 100 isn't casual enough for you? psh.

DE doesn't balance around jack. That's why they've lost control of their game and resorted to cheating with Immunity while creating stand alone module content because they don't want to draw attention to how broken the game has become at it's core.

And no to this other Tenno who keeps talking about combo with Nidus Specter. I'll play a good frame instead. I don't need to strip armor through abilities. I'm pointing out she does nothing well. When Hildryn scales better with an unintentional 4 mod meme build than actually using her kit. Think they might have screwed up somewhere.

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I seriously do not understand some threads. You're salty because Wisp is more popular than Hildryn? She needs a buff because Wisp has a butt? She's already pretty buff.

 

9 hours ago, zhellon said:

She can use its operator while under 4 ability

whaaaaat I need to try that

 

edit: also I just wanted to say that wow this xzorn guy is an asshat huh

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il y a 5 minutes, ebrl a dit :

whaaaaat I need to try that

Lol. Take your shield dog with you. Good luck with your personal Bastille for your operator.

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The reason Hildryn isnt popular is BECAUSE she is endgame oriented. You farm her from an orb. She requires good mods and lots of Forma to be of use for casual players.

But to say she isnt good is a joke, she has one of the highest damaging exalted weapon if not THE highest assuming you are willing to invest all the forma required to make her exalted good. She rivals Inaros in tankiness her only bane being a high level toxin or slash proc that insta kills. She scales better than most other frames, period. There is no debating that amongst actual endgame players. Hildryn's biggest weakness is infested as she cant armor or shield strip them but the counter to that is that infested are the most susceptible to CC which Hildryn excels at with her 4. Hildryn's kit is super balanced and there are many frames much more worse off than her.

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Maybe I'm just building her wrong, but it feels like her biggest flaw is that it's hard to really min-max her stats... efficiency, duration, range, and strength all matter in fair amounts. Efficiency and duration, so she doesn't drain her own shields too fast, range so her Pillage can actually hit enemies, and strength so ALL her abilities are actually effective. Of course, that could just mean there's multiple ways to build her and I'm overthinking it.

I do look forward to how they tweak her in the future, because her design could be improved in many ways. For the moment, it seems she's too much of an experiment DE decided to try with shields, rather than designing her as a powerful frame on her own.

My personal take:
Her "exalted weapon" should just be combined with her 4th ability, instead of separate, mostly because the 4th ability prevents any other weapon from being used.
Her 3rd ability shouldn't be a toggle, but a pulse effect - doing a burst of radial damage and giving allies a burst of shields.
Her 2nd ability should be a toggle, which thus means you only ever have one toggle active at one time, that actively strips shields and armor away from enemies until they have none left. (What's the point in having an ability that gives you shields... COSTING shields, anyways?)
I would personally love to see her passive improved so that her regular shields make her immune to status effects, not just her overshields, but would that be too strong? What if she was specifically NOT immune to Magnetize, but otherwise untouchable by the rest?

All of this could free her up to get a new 1st ability, to hopefully give her kit that something that it's lacking. Not sure what would be good for a shield-centric tank to use, but if she can strip defenses, sustain her shields, have a decent nuke AND a decent aoe CC, and grant shields + status immunity to allies... what else could she use?
Only thing I can think of would be something like... temporarily surging her shield systems to reflect damage while drawing attention from nearby enemies.

I'm still not sure if shields as a resource really works.

10 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 I don't need to strip armor through abilities.

True, Corrosive weapons do that well enough. Good thing Balefire can have high status chance and Corrosive damage.

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7 hours ago, zhellon said:

Lol. Take your shield dog with you. Good luck with your personal Bastille for your operator.

ok yeah so I tried it out and holy #*!%ing S#&$, also great synergy with phahd scaffold. the whole thing is a bit of a meme but it's a very functional, totally viable meme

 

54 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Maybe I'm just building her wrong, but it feels like her biggest flaw is that it's hard to really min-max her stats... efficiency, duration, range, and strength all matter in fair amounts. Efficiency and duration, so she doesn't drain her own shields too fast, range so her Pillage can actually hit enemies, and strength so ALL her abilities are actually effective. Of course, that could just mean there's multiple ways to build her.

A good general purpose build is just getting as much strength as possible and good range (I have mine at 298% and 160%). Efficiency can take a hit because Pillage will always fully recharge your shields, you just keep Haven on at all times and spam Pillage at everything (by the way, yeah corrosive procs are nice and necessary but they can't instantly remove 74% of armour from everyone in sight in a 42m radius - that other guy keeps talking about how armour strip abilities are pointless as if they didn't have huge synergy with corrosive damage, and you end up agreeing with him because he's.... loud and angry about it?).

Anyway, if I had to guess you're not getting anywhere near enough strength, which just makes Pillage feel useless, which in turn makes you uneasy about the constant drain from Haven.

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17 minutes ago, ebrl said:

you end up agreeing with him because he's.... loud and angry about it?

I'm not agreeing with him, so much as being snarky at him. Frankly, I prefer Corrosive damage on my guns anyways, so I'm not too bothered by abilities NOT stripping armor.

Especially since Balefire hits in a decent AOE.

17 minutes ago, ebrl said:

Efficiency can take a hit because Pillage will always fully recharge your shields

Hrm. Maybe I'm just being too anxious about shield drain in general. But doesn't Duration improve Pillage better than Range, similar to the Mag Pulse?

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I'm actually waiting for hildryn deluxe and/or tennogen, since i do use her alot and she has alot more potential than wisp, she is simply a powerhouse and constantly uses abilities non stop, making her one of the best warframes for efficiency.

If others don't want to use her that's fine, i'll use her myself.

But yes, far mor wisps than hildryns around.

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I loved the idea of a shield based frame but I couldn't get used to Hildryn abilities. 

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she is a solid warframe but she is solid in all the wrong ways as it stands. does she have some decent support damage and durability? Sure she does but but with the caveat of all that being done with the most underwhelming and least useful form of durability. Other frames offer so much more to the team be it support or better damage and wont die from the slightest slash proc and requiring much less investment to maximize their potential. She is by no means horrible in any way but the ease of gaining the things to make her as good as the current mainstays is just to steep for most players. Although is you wanted specifics I mean the the arcanes which almost feel mandatory and the very low drop chance Adaptation to make her shields actually mean something...

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Il y a 7 heures, PooPooPirate a dit :

But to say she isnt good is a joke, she has 1) one of the highest damaging exalted weapon if not THE highest assuming you are willing to invest all the forma required to make her exalted good. She 2) rivals Inaros in tankiness her only bane being a high level toxin or slash proc that insta kills. She 3) scales better than most other frames, period. There is no debating that amongst actual endgame players. Hildryn's biggest weakness is 4) infested as she cant armor or shield strip them but the counter to that is that infested are the most susceptible to CC which Hildryn excels at with her 4. 5) Hildryn's kit is super balanced and there are many frames much more worse off than her.

I'm baffled tbh. 

1) no, it's the other way around. Ivara gets a bow that can do upwards of 3mln in an AoE, mesa gets about 400-500k DPS with rapid status triggers, last time i checked titania she was pushing the 1mln mark with an optimised build, and every melee can go upwards of 10mln with Valkyr's being the top dog. Hyldryn gets what, 90k in a moderate AoE? She's a good fodder killer, sure, but the good exalteds are others. 

2) rivaling inaros in tankiness is not a good thing, inaros is among the absolute worst in his ability to take actual damage (no, lv 100 enemies don't deal actual dmg). The only saving grace she has compared to Inaros is the fact she cannot be one shot through overshields and she generally stays alive long enough to replenish with pillage. She has piddling EHP but at least it's hard to die as her. 

3) no, not even close. Octavia scales better than any other frame period, or well scales as well as Ivara which is saying the same thing. Hildryn is a moderately competent debuffer. Hardly record breaking. Ash scales better than that. Trinity. Nekros. Rhino. Nova. Vauban. Oberon. Valkyr. Nidus. You name it. 

4) yeah, and what shields are you gonna use to keep it up i wonder, even more so considering that it locks you out of shield regen and if you don't have overshields up infested are gonna murder your pitiful unprotected hp pool with toxin dmg. 

5) I'd say hildryn's kit is balanced the wrong way but, tbh, she's fun to play. And yeah, there are frames in worse spots. That said she isn't in a good one either. She's pretty much relegated to be 2nd DPS or a Saryn step in in ESO. Any other kind of moderately hard content she brings nothing to the table. 

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Well, I'd hope they weren't serious about dealing with Armor on a slow firing base 10% status weapon.

74% Armor strip? cool. So a lvl 100 Napalm goes from 7,594 (96.2% DR) to 1,974 (86.8% DR).

That's double what a single CP Aura does or 4-5 Corrosive procs. You can save like half a second of firing with that. I mean, is it making sense why anything less than 100% Armor strip isn't useful? The situation only gets more comical as enemies scale. Her Armor strip should be additive, not multiplicative. You're far better off using a weapon that can deal with armor and when it comes to her other abilities; She's just weak compared to alternatives.

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1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Hrm. Maybe I'm just being too anxious about shield drain in general. But doesn't Duration improve Pillage better than Range, similar to the Mag Pulse?

It does (20m/sec after the initial base 8m), but as long as you don't go too low you're fine - you still need line of sight anyway, so it's not like you'd be missing out on hitting dudes in another room. With a maxed Transient Fortitude you still get 29m from the expansion alone.

 

9 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Well, I'd hope they weren't serious about dealing with Armor on a slow firing base 10% status weapon.

74% Armor strip? cool. So a lvl 100 Napalm goes from 7,594 (96.2% DR) to 1,974 (86.8% DR).

That's double what a single CP Aura does or 4-5 Corrosive procs. You can save like half a second of firing with that. I mean, is it making sense why anything less than 100% Armor strip isn't useful? The situation only gets more comical as enemies scale. Her Armor strip should be additive, not multiplicative. You're far better off using a weapon that can deal with armor and when it comes to her other abilities; She's just weak compared to alternatives.

because proccing things down one by one from 7.5k armour is exactly as fast as doing the same to each one of them starting with 2.5k armour, right. get lost, you are not interested in a serious honest discussion.

and of course nobody is talking about dealing with armour with balefire. you're just being obnoxious and deliberately misinterpreting what anyone says.

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7 minutes ago, ebrl said:

because proccing things down one by one from 7.5k armour is exactly as fast as doing the same to each one of them starting with 2.5k armour, right. get lost, you are not interested in a serious discussion.

and of course nobody is talking about dealing with armour with balefire. you're just being obnoxious and deliberately misinterpreting what anyone says, so get. lost.

 

Nope, really not. Just trying to talk sense. Some people just can't listen or are unable.

As I said in my original post she has cool animations, sound effects and does a lot of stuff but nothing meaningful really happens.

Don't think I said anything about procs on enemies one by one. What game are we playing? Hildryn accomplishes about the same as me spinning in circles with a Corrosive + Heat Ignis. except my Ignis can hit enemies through walls. The point of non-100% Armor strip is that it's not changing much at lower levels because we simply have far more damage than needed to kill enemies and at higher levels it scales in reverse making it useless.

Hildryn naturally casts this to get her Shields back. Cool but why not play Rhino. Not have to do that with better CC and group damage potential. The only thing Hildryn brings to the table at that point is her goofy Shield gating mechanic which she herself can cause by being so inept in comparison. Add in she can't strip armor or use good weapons if she's in "plx shoot me mode" and you have very limited value frame. I'm being perfectly serious. She needs some major buffs and changes.

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Personally I don't play Hildryn for 2 reasons:
1. I don't like how she looks, she looks like a male bodybuilder that injected too many steroids in his chest, I don't find her appealing at all

2. I don't like her abysmal health pool that can get me killed instantly from a slash / toxin proc.

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il y a une heure, Autongnosis a dit :

4) yeah, and what shields are you gonna use to keep it up i wonder, even more so considering that it locks you out of shield regen and if you don't have overshields up infested are gonna murder your pitiful unprotected hp pool with toxin dmg. 

About the shield

About the toxin

It all adds up to 150% resistance to the toxin, which is a complete immunity. Also, your operator gives a massive resist frame, and therefore, even 160 toxic aura dont does damage.

 

And if you want to play in General immortal Assembly against infected, use it

In assembly in gas you simply your overshields will be constantly active and from-for low speed attacks infected, and so same expense of shieldgate overshields you will simply immortal, so as toxin and slash combined with radiation will, too, repair you shields. These are simply the most efficient builds. In fact, in umbra build hildryn can not die from infected up to 200 levels due to armor and adaptation. Just stop collecting it in volume shields.

 

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il y a 27 minutes, zhellon a dit :

In assembly in gas you simply your overshields will be constantly active and from-for low speed attacks infected, and so same expense of shieldgate overshields you will simply immortal, so as toxin and slash combined with radiation will, too, repair you shields.

Uh? I swear i don't understand what you wrote here 😧

 

As for the rest of the post, yeah, you can waste one mod slot and your aura and your companion just to stay alive and to be able to cast, and then you get what exactly? A cosmetic ult and a very bad exalted first skill. Specifically against infested her kit falls apart flat on its face.

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il y a 20 minutes, Autongnosis a dit :

Uh? I swear i don't understand what you wrote here 😧

Just try using a dark dagger with the status of a gas or a toxin. 

il y a 20 minutes, Autongnosis a dit :

As for the rest of the post, yeah, you can waste one mod slot and your aura and your companion just to stay alive and to be able to cast, and then you get what exactly? A cosmetic ult and a very bad exalted first skill. Specifically against infested her kit falls apart flat on its face.

Yes, the first skill is really bad. But if we do build specifically for 3 and 4 abilities that just get better the Bastille. The infected are indeed very vulnerable to control and the 4 ability is an excellent control + support for the team. 

In General, you can use your slots as you like. Hildryn in armor + health still has a good tank even against the infected, if it is up to 200 lvl. Just kill the toxic ancient and toxic eximus.

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Or you could just run 3 mods and be immune to everything.

Best part is you can still use all her meh abilities.

..Yea no glaring problems with this frame at all.

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il y a 12 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

Best part is you can still use all her meh abilities.

Yeah, that's what I like. You are not dependent on the energy orbits, which can simply decide to stop falling. And drain abilities don't bother you at all, since you have plenty of ways to restore your shields.  And I like her passive ability, which is impossible to turn off by external influences. Even the magnet to some extent helps us, although it should be the opposite.

Hildryn has its own unique mechanics. I think every warframe should have unique mechanics. 

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il y a 37 minutes, zhellon a dit :

Yes, the first skill is really bad. But if we do build specifically for 3 and 4 abilities that just get better the Bastille. The infected are indeed very vulnerable to control and the 4 ability is an excellent control + support for the team. 

Not really. If i want that kind of hard control i can, instead of hildryn and her pitiful range and useless hover, bring:

- frost, which also has top class defensive capabilities and soft CC

- khora, which also has top class offensive capabilities and hard CC

- gara, which is broken on every level

- rhino, which is also one of the best buffers and in the top 3 for tanking

- vauban, which does what hildryn does only better while also covering a whole tile instead of an AoE around him, and also layering in rad procs for added CC and turning off ancient auras

il y a 16 minutes, zhellon a dit :

Hildryn has its own unique mechanics. I think every warframe should have unique mechanics. 

That's for sure, i like the idea, and many frames should get some sort of intrinsic mechanic unique to them (i particularly like additional resource management like baruuk restraint and atlas rubble if done well). 

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