Universal Weapon handling Buff (like reload speed) with weapon use and/or a paragon system/MR Progression Tiers

[Maka.Bones]

TLDR: If you want to know the actual main point of this post, please read the bold text while skipping the rest of the text. Now if you want to read something mildly entertaining/funny, then read the rest. I'm quite annoyed with a bug in my game atm, so the tone on this article is a bit sassy... it's mostly meant for entertainment/humor though.😉 (The bug isn't related to this)

 

If  this game was more of a tactical shooter again (sorta like doom, or MH) then slower reloads would make more sense.  For hordes  though, it makes a little less sense. It makes it hard to reward "skillful gunplay" if you're slowed down by your ability to reload, and it encourages more "nuke to win" playstyles instead. 

 

Alright so (satirical voice) most people who have had at least SOME training in the use of firearms, won't take 3-5s reloading any kind of weapon (save for maybe a full-size machine gun... which might take longer). Seriously, even 2s is a bit long for some of these weapons.So you'd think that after a few thousand, hundred-thousand, or half-million+ times that our warframe/operators have had to reload the same weapon, they'd improve in speed right?

If this game played more like doom (which would be wonderful btw) this reload timing wouldn't be such an issue. But in a game with constant hordes of enemies spawning all around you... it's pretty annoying to use a shotgun when your biggest barrier is "how fast you can reload" instead of "how fast I can aim" or "how many shots does it take to kill this enemy"

And it's even worse with magazine-fed weapons, which SHOULD TAKE LESS THAN A SECOND TO RELOAD. Honestly, even trainees who've only had their basic military training can reload their weapon faster than our warframes--3s on a soma?.... Seriously?! It's not like you're out there getting shot at from every direction, and you needed that reload to happen ASAP... you'd almost think that your warframes are having a picnic and are busy unwrapping a lollipop without a care in the world out there--How many f-ing licks does it take to get to the core, huh tenno?!

*Nice voice*

So here's my suggestion to help solve this dilemma (Hint: It's in the title) 

1) Every MR increase, could give us a universal reload speed buff  Or at the very least, the more we use our weapons, some use-related stats could improve for that weapon || weapon type (We could gain experience for each different weapon type, based on how skillfully we use them).  Or it could be tied to game/quest progression, and different tiers could be unlocked after the player reaches a *set* MR goal. Or we could have a different skill progression tree, or It could also be tied into focus schools (like naramon).  In addition to weapon-tier progression, introduce weapon arcanes for further diversity! Edit:The idea is that early/weaker weapons wouldn't inherently/immediately be super strong, but through skill progression we could make these less popular weapons to be as strong/viable/competitive as the more popular and easily strong weapons (after the total combination of practice / skill / specialization / mods / upgrades / weapon arcanes). This might require for DE to make new weapon classifications, and re-classify some weapons (like the plasmor, zarr, ignis, opticor) so that they can better fine-tune the skill/weapon progression benefits and avoid accidently "over-buffing" some stronger weapons. 

*Satirical voice*

Seriously, who T.F. gets their heads blown off because they're too F-ing busy reloading? (yes. this dumbass did... and yes i'm a dumbass for standing still, but that's besides the point) Oh and thanks for dragging me across the floor Mr Energy Leech Ancient, sir/ma'am... You really helped save me the trip to impale you with my giant ass sword. RIP MY F-ING WEAPON RELOAD THOUGH. 

 *nice voice again*

A second suggestion would be, to keep our reload progress even after we interrupt it.  I mean c'mon it's not as if we're casting some spell to summon the child of cthulhu or something. We're just dropping our magazine, so it shouldn't magically respawn back on the weapon if we get interrupted by dodging, using melee, knockdowns, or casting abilities. 

 

A system like this is not meant to replace mods, but to supplement/enhance things that mods alone can't completely fill in the gap for. This would encourage more weapon/mod diversity. Because currently a mod setup for "weaker weapon A"  could also be used on a similarly functioning "strong weapon A" and completely circumvent any need/desire for further customization with "weaker weapon A"

Edit: For anyone telling me *nerd voice* "you can't use realism as an argument" *end nerdy voice* well this is a game about space ninjas, and they're supposed to be these super beings right? Reloading can't possibly be their only weakness, so how can some measly weakling humans reload faster than these super biomechanical space ninjas?  🙂

Edited July 24, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[NekroArts]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Seriously, who T.F. gets their heads blown off, because they're too F-ing busy reloading? 

The ones that stop moving to do it.

[Maka.Bones]

6 hours ago, NekroArts said:

The ones that stop moving to do it.

Quite hilarious aren't you? Tell that to the "auto-aiming" enemy, or that ancient that just hooked you and is dragging you across the floor. 

Edit: And say hi to him for me btw. Tell him his mother also says hello, and she makes delicious cookies. It's called an example. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[NekroArts]

  

Few of many solutions I use. The philosophy I live by when playing Warframe is that if I want to play this game because I like it and want to continue playing it, I do whatever that would make me continue to enjoy it and not hate it.

Edit: this was response to "Quite hilarous..."

Edited July 18, 2019 by NekroArts

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

  

Few of many solutions I use. The philosophy I live by when playing Warframe is that if I want to play this game because I like it and want to continue playing it, I do whatever that would make me continue to enjoy it and not hate it.

And you're assuming that I hate it? first of all, that's not related to weapon reload. Secondly I wasn't complaining about getting hooked or getting back up. I was complaining about reload speeds, and how you have to start all over whenever a reload gets interrupted. Thirdly, maybe stick to the subject and stop being so belittling or assuming that I hate the game. 

Yes I know about mods, timmy. 

Edit: MY bad, maybe I should call you "oh great and wise one" instead of "timmy"

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[NekroArts]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Thirdly, maybe stick to the subject and stop being so belittling or assuming that I hate the game. 

 

You posted this:

19 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Seriously, who T.F. gets their heads blown off because they're too F-ing busy reloading?ed. 

I chose to respond to this with:

15 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

The ones that stop moving to do it.

Then you responded with this:

14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Quie hilarious aren't you? Tell that to the "auto-aiming" enemy, or that ancient that just hooked you and is dragging you across the floor. 

Edit: And say hi to him for me btw. Tell him his mother also says hello, and she makes delicious cookies. 

I responded with my solutions, but I know many would call my solutions as "band-aid that fixes nothing" so I added that philosophy part as a reason why I accept it.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Pick one of these, Unlimited Ammo.
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Melee_Weapons

Edited July 18, 2019 by (PS4)jaggerwanderer

[Maka.Bones]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

Pick one of these, Unlimited Ammo.
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Melee_Weapons

Well I suppose that's true, and thank you very much for that. But you see... the main bug that i've been having which has been aggravating me, makes my melee weapon lose its mod buffs whenever there's a "host migration" which is the reason i'm on here now complaining about how slow the reloads are. 

 

But still, i've been meaning to make a post about this because seriously a 3s reload on a hand-held weapon is drastically long. We might be space-ninja-pirates, but we're not actually shooting black powder muskets here.  (Sure, the Zarr and it's secondary counterpart, are the exception to this)

Tally-ho!

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones
Tally-ho!

[Maka.Bones]

33 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

 

You posted this:

I chose to respond to this with:

Then you responded with this:

I responded with my solutions, but I know many would call my solutions as "band-aid that fixes nothing" so I added that philosophy part as a reason why I accept it.

Yes sir that was just meant to be a humorous illustration, of a situation where long reload times are burdensome; It was meant to be a funny example. 

The main subject/concern here is about weapon reloads; how slow they are, and how we need to start over if our reload gets interrupted (for magazine-fed weapons) 

Edit: No, you're not being helpful. You're making belittling comments at my expense, while ignoring the main subject i've been speaking about. If I hated this game, I wouldn't be taking the time to post on the forums. I'd just play something else. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[taiiat]

if you want to pull the 'realism' card, then Warframe would also be missing the psychological factor of warfare. our Guns should randomly shoot far off target and Reloads should take a random amount of time between 50% and 900% the usual time.
we should also freeze and be unable to shoot or move randomly, too.

we have Mods for a reason anyways.

while it would be nice if all Shooters used a staged approach to Reloading, i'm not really holding my breath there because even Simulators don't do that, so arcade games are certainly not likely to.

[Birdframe_Prime]

My friend, have you ever played games that have a stamina bar? And do you know why that's implemented when we can prove that people are able to run marathons at speeds that most people count as sprinting when they've had the training? It's not because of any kind of realism.

It's to limit how far you can go in a certain amount of time. The game actively wants to ensure that you can't go too far too fast.

Warframe had a Stamina bar, but took it out when they realised that the players would just glitch past it anyway using Melee Coptering, and so balanced their movement around the speed that players were wanting to achieve with coptering. They made larger tiles, made longer corridors, and then they allowed all players to have access to speedy movement.

Reload speeds are similar, and are likely here to stay because they are part of this lovely little balance that DE implements for every weapon; DPS. They set the base of the weapon up to have different amounts of damage each can deal per second and adjust the supplemental stats, or the specific damage split, to bias how well that weapon can do that. They even implement mechanics on a weapon that could be equal to another to ensure that using it makes it mediocre (the Convectrix is a great example of that, where its damage is comparable to other beam weapons, but the mechanics of how you fire it make it worse than them).

How fast you reload, and therefore how fast you can mod your Reload Speed to be, is part of that balance.

In PvP games, like Overwatch, do you honestly think that the game makers made every single reload animation have a minimum duration and purposefully removed melee-cutting as a mechanic for making it faster, because it takes every single person on that roster two seconds to reload? When Tracer is actually just rewinding her guns to a point where they were loaded, when Reaper is literally just throwing his old guns on the ground and unholstering two more, when Mei is just twisting the injector to refill the dispenser on her ice? 

No. It's a limit on the player and how fast they can deal damage.

So Warframe's reloading is not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be a limit on each individual gun that makes it more or less able to deal its damage effectively.

On some weapons they even trick you, like the Zhuge Prime, where if you reload pre-emptively it takes 3 seconds, but if you reload from empty it only takes 1.5 seconds.

It's a balance internally for damage, not an attempt at realism.

Meaning that the entire angle of 'with training you get faster' is completely moot.

[Teridax68]

6 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

How fast you reload, and therefore how fast you can mod your Reload Speed to be, is part of that balance.

Okay, but DPS formulas also factor in fire rate, number of shots per reload, and obviously damage per shot, so even with a lower reload time you could always tweak those other factors to achieve the exact same paper DPS. If reloading were to feel too slow, one could simply refactor some numbers to fix that and avoid buffing a weapon's DPS, such as by reducing both the reload time and damage per shot. The same could be said for weapon swapping too, which is what typically receives complaints of being too slow.

This isn't to say I support the OP's proposal, by the way, as I think it's a clear case of power creep where, if reload speeds really were too slow, the solution should be to just reduce reload times on weapons. I also agree that "realism" is an utterly silly argument to make to advocate anything in Warframe. Just pointing out that reload speed is but one out of many balancing levers in a gun's DPS formula, and that there's always the option to pull a few of those levers together if one of them is out of line.

[Maka.Bones]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

if you want to pull the 'realism' card, then Warframe would also be missing the psychological factor of warfare. our Guns should randomly shoot far off target and Reloads should take a random amount of time between 50% and 900% the usual time.
we should also freeze and be unable to shoot or move randomly, too.

we have Mods for a reason anyways.

while it would be nice if all Shooters used a staged approach to Reloading, i'm not really holding my breath there because even Simulators don't do that, so arcade games are certainly not likely to.

Dude please read the TLDR version. Most of the rest of the form was just for entertainment. 

well this is a game about space ninjas, and they're supposed to be these super beings right? Reloading can't possibly be their only weakness, so how can some measly weakling humans reload faster than these super biomechanical space ninjas?  🙂

Edit: You do have a good point about the other "realism" effects, and I'd actually love to see that in a game, but these are already supposed to be "super enhanced biomechanical ninjas"

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

46 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My friend, have you ever played games that have a stamina bar? And do you know why that's implemented when we can prove that people are able to run marathons at speeds that most people count as sprinting when they've had the training? It's not because of any kind of realism.

It's to limit how far you can go in a certain amount of time. The game actively wants to ensure that you can't go too far too fast.

Warframe had a Stamina bar, but took it out when they realised that the players would just glitch past it anyway using Melee Coptering, and so balanced their movement around the speed that players were wanting to achieve with coptering. They made larger tiles, made longer corridors, and then they allowed all players to have access to speedy movement.

Reload speeds are similar, and are likely here to stay because they are part of this lovely little balance that DE implements for every weapon; DPS. They set the base of the weapon up to have different amounts of damage each can deal per second and adjust the supplemental stats, or the specific damage split, to bias how well that weapon can do that. They even implement mechanics on a weapon that could be equal to another to ensure that using it makes it mediocre (the Convectrix is a great example of that, where its damage is comparable to other beam weapons, but the mechanics of how you fire it make it worse than them).

How fast you reload, and therefore how fast you can mod your Reload Speed to be, is part of that balance.

In PvP games, like Overwatch, do you honestly think that the game makers made every single reload animation have a minimum duration and purposefully removed melee-cutting as a mechanic for making it faster, because it takes every single person on that roster two seconds to reload? When Tracer is actually just rewinding her guns to a point where they were loaded, when Reaper is literally just throwing his old guns on the ground and unholstering two more, when Mei is just twisting the injector to refill the dispenser on her ice? 

No. It's a limit on the player and how fast they can deal damage.

So Warframe's reloading is not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be a limit on each individual gun that makes it more or less able to deal its damage effectively.

On some weapons they even trick you, like the Zhuge Prime, where if you reload pre-emptively it takes 3 seconds, but if you reload from empty it only takes 1.5 seconds.

It's a balance internally for damage, not an attempt at realism.

Meaning that the entire angle of 'with training you get faster' is completely moot.

You also, please just read the TLDR version. Most of the other stuff is for the sake of entertainment.

 But seriously, we're m-fing space ninjas. We don't need to worry about stamina or speed. Don't want players to constantly be nukng everything? Let us reload and shoot faster. Your argument hold zero validity, when we can press a single button and kill everything in the room by simply playing Saryn, volt, mesa, octavia, or using an ignis wraith. 

Meaning that everything you said is "completely moot"  (Do you even know what "moot point" means? you keep using it when it's not appropriate, but i'm not sure that it means what you think it means)

Do you guys only get on the forums for the sake of disagreeing with everyone? lol

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

38 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but DPS formulas also factor in fire rate, number of shots per reload, and obviously damage per shot, so even with a lower reload time you could always tweak those other factors to achieve the exact same paper DPS. If reloading were to feel too slow, one could simply refactor some numbers to fix that and avoid buffing a weapon's DPS, such as by reducing both the reload time and damage per shot. The same could be said for weapon swapping too, which is what typically receives complaints of being too slow.

This isn't to say I support the OP's proposal, by the way, as I think it's a clear case of power creep where, if reload speeds really were too slow, the solution should be to just reduce reload times on weapons. I also agree that "realism" is an utterly silly argument to make to advocate anything in Warframe. Just pointing out that reload speed is but one out of many balancing levers in a gun's DPS formula, and that there's always the option to pull a few of those levers together if one of them is out of line.

You also, please read the TLDR version. 

Having a longer reload time makes sense for low MR, where less mobs spawn per maps. So reworking ALLL of the weapons would be unecessary (and would honestly take much longer than just giving us 1% reload speed bonus, per MR)

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

You also, please read the TLDR version. 

Having a longer reload time makes sense for low MR, where less mobs spawn per maps. 

You should perhaps read what others have to say first, instead of pre-emptively accusing them of not having read the boilerplate response you'd prepared. I have read the TL;DR, and I don't think longer reload times "making sense" at lower levels is really enough of a justification to keep them long, nor cause weapons to operate at entirely different speeds based on MR. Moreover, the TL;DR in no way addresses the point I made of power creep: the system you are proposing goes way beyond the new player experience and all the way into MR 27, the current established rating for experienced players. If your entire proposal is to just flip a switch between new players and regular Warframe, then you'd need another system that would either operate off of a single MR threshold, or function based on some other trigger.  What you're proposing does power creep the game, and given how increases in MR are tied to obtaining new weapons and frames, one can't help but feel there's also a slight ethical conundrum to tying all of that, and thus associated monetary purchases, with direct increases in combat power.

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Don't want players to constantly be nukng everything? Let us reload and shoot faster. Your argument hold zero validity, when we can press a single button and kill everything in the room by simply playing Saryn, volt, mesa, octavia, or using an ignis wraith. 

Don't want players to be nuking everything? Stop giving them nukes then.

Even reloading instantly wouldn't be fast enough to stop it when a single button press, un-aimed, does what you've described.

I said moot, because I meant moot, your arguments don't make sense in the game mechanics, nor would they have any relevance at the end goal you've proposed, that's what moot means. It means that even if we continued discussing the point, it doesn't matter because it wouldn't solve any of what you're asking for.

Reloads are in place as a balance for the damage on weapons, and the damage on weapons is never even supposed to replace the damage on abilities.

I get on the forums because I want to actually improve things in a way compliant with both game design and common sense. I disagree with you, because your method complies with neither.

[Maka.Bones]

17 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

You should perhaps read what others have to say first, instead of pre-emptively accusing them of not having read the boilerplate response you'd prepared. I have read the TL;DR, and I don't think longer reload times "making sense" at lower levels is really enough of a justification to keep them long, nor cause weapons to operate at entirely different speeds based on MR. Moreover, the TL;DR in no way addresses the point I made of power creep: the system you are proposing goes way beyond the new player experience and all the way into MR 27, the current established rating for experienced players. If your entire proposal is to just flip a switch between new players and regular Warframe, then you'd need another system that would either operate off of a single MR threshold, or function based on some other trigger.  What you're proposing does power creep the game, and given how increases in MR are tied to obtaining new weapons and frames, one can't help but feel there's also a slight ethical conundrum to tying all of that, and thus associated monetary purchases, with direct increases in combat power.

First of all, please stop the snobby tone of voice with me.

Secondly, if you had all read the TLDR version, you (everyone) wouldn't keep using "realism isn't a good argument"

I simply don't want to feel forced to play "nuke" for the sake of keeping up with the game. 

 

as far as keeping the weapons with their base reload, DE already has plenty on their plate that we want them to work on. Changing EVERY SINGLE WEAPON to have a lower reload would take longer than just giving us a 1% reload bonus, per MR. The faster reload isn't needed at early  game progression, it's much more needed at higher game progressions. 

I don't see how there's an "ethical conundrum" when every single game has a progression scale. You level up, you get more skills/gear/perks/etc... That's always been in every game. So are you saying veterans shouldn't get any endgame content then, because of an ethical conundrum? Should we not have eidolon fights, or the ropalolist because of an ethical conundrum? If you're genuinely concerned about newer players, or about players feeling forced to make purchases, then what do you suggest that would be easier for DE instead of changing every single weapon's reload stats? 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

8 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Don't want players to be nuking everything? Stop giving them nukes then.

Even reloading instantly wouldn't be fast enough to stop it when a single button press, un-aimed, does what you've described.

I said moot, because I meant moot, your arguments don't make sense in the game mechanics, nor would they have any relevance at the end goal you've proposed, that's what moot means. It means that even if we continued discussing the point, it doesn't matter because it wouldn't solve any of what you're asking for.

Reloads are in place as a balance for the damage on weapons, and the damage on weapons is never even supposed to replace the damage on abilities.

I get on the forums because I want to actually improve things in a way compliant with both game design and common sense. I disagree with you, because your method complies with neither.

No, you disagree because i'm not making a point you want to see or that you like. Not because it's wrong or moot. You also need to stop the snobby tone of voice. 

If the argument was moot, then I wouldn't have such a blast whenever I get an infinite ammo "void" buff. If my argument was moot, I wouldn't consistently be getting 20-30% damage & kills while i'm just using my Corinth (which is one of the weaker shotguns)

And perhaps Nukes exist because some players also enjoy them. Let others have things they enjoy. 

I'm suggesting something that would *ADD* to the game.... It wouldn't be taking away from anyone, so what's your issue? 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Most of the weapons you can get down to a one to one and a half second reload speed with mods. I don't think this is necessary. 

[Maka.Bones]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Most of the weapons you can get down to a one to one and a half second reload speed with mods. I don't think this is necessary. 

Ok that's a reasonable perspective, but then is it too much to ask for better reload mods (especially for rifles) or more variety of them?

There's literally only ONE reload mod for rifles, and no it doesn't get most rifles down to below 2.2s

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Shodian]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Ok that's a reasonable perspective. But i would say that we at least need better reload mods (especially for rifles) or more variety of them. 

We have Primed Fast Hands and Prime Quickdraw that give +55% and +80% reload for primary and secondary respectively.

We also havr tactical reload, multiple shotgun and sniper reload mods and we have Chroma's toxin buff which increases our reload speed. I think we have more than enough.

[Maka.Bones]

37 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

We have Primed Fast Hands and Prime Quickdraw that give +55% and +80% reload for primary and secondary respectively.

We also havr tactical reload, multiple shotgun and sniper reload mods and we have Chroma's toxin buff which increases our reload speed. I think we have more than enough.

I don't want to play chroma or volt purely for the sake of reload. That would limit me to always need to be playing either one of those. (Not everyone enjoys playing chroma, since he makes the game too easy)

Excluding primed mods, these are literally all of the reload-related mods in the game:

 

These are how many damage-related mods we have in the game

So how can you say that we have enough? We could at least make more use of mods like chilling reload

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Teridax68]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

First of all, please stop the snobby tone of voice with me.

It is not "snobby" to point out that you visibly aren't making an effort to listen to the feedback people are giving on your thread, and are instead trying to deflect criticism towards some part of your post that doesn't even answer it. The fact that you seem to have had this problem with virtually every single person you have replied to on this thread (I'm not even the only person you're accusing of snobbery) suggests the problem may lie with you, not the entire rest of the forums. If facing disagreement causes you to dismiss others and question their character right off the bat, what are you even doing on an internet forum?

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Secondly, if you had all read the TLDR version, you wouldn't keep using "realism isn't a good argument"

Actually, there's a pretty clear bolded part of your post that your TL;DR told us was one of the main components to your post:

5 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

We're just dropping our magazine, so it shouldn't magically respawn back on the weapon if we get interrupted by knockdowns, or casting abilities. 

This is an argument from realism. You are saying the game should change the way it animates reloads so as to emulate the physical act of removing the magazine before inserting another, with the implication that preset reload animations are "magic" and thus inherently bad. Putting aside how even games that do aim for a degree of realism, like Call of Duty (when the franchise isn't going into space anyways), do not have that degree of complexity to their reload animations, what you're asking is simply a very roundabout way of shortening our overall time spent reloading, all based on having reloads feel more realistic. Perhaps at a time when Warframe is advanced enough, we could have more complexity to our reloads, but as it stands it is both a silly and fastidious demand to make in its current state.

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

I simply don't want to feel forced to play "nuke" for the sake of keeping up with the game. 

Perhaps the problem may not lie just with reload times, then? Even if we had absolutely zero reloading time and bottomless clips, many nuke frames would still outperform our weapons, because frames like Saryn and Equinox can kill enemies through walls, and Mesa deals a large multiple of our pistol damage by design.

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

as far as keeping the weapons with their base reload, DE already has plenty on their plate that we want them to work on. Changing EVERY SINGLE WEAPON to have a lower reload would take longer than just giving us a 1% reload bonus, per MR. The faster reload isn't needed at early  game progression, it's much more needed at higher game progressions. 

Implementing this entire new system that mixes reload speed with MR would be an order of magnitude more complicated than implementing some basic script that would shorten reload times on weapons by some amount. What you're proposing is in no way the simpler solution, and faster reloads are in absolutely no way "needed" at higher levels, where we have plenty enough mods and frame abilities to lower our reload times if really necessary.

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

I don't see how there's an "ethical conundrum" when every single game has a progression scale. You level up, you get more skills/gear/perks/etc... That's always been in every game. So are you saying veterans shouldn't get any endgame content then, because of an ethical conundrum? Should we not have eidolon fights, or the ropalolist because of an ethical conundrum? If you're genuinely concerned about newer players, or about players feeling forced to make purchases, then what do you suggest that would be easier for DE than changing every single weapon's reload stats? 

Most games have a "progression scale", but MR as a progression scale is defined by the acquisition and ranking up of new frames, weapons, vehicles, and companions, all of which the game incentivizes you to buy with real money (to say nothing of the slots you have to pay for if you want to hold onto those items, or the accessories like potatoes or Forma that are essential to the effectiveness of said items). Directly tacking on combat power to this system that has been conspicuously avoiding this would in fact pose an ethical problem. You also seem to be under the impression that only MR 27 players or the like can access "endgame content", or that "endgame content" is locked behind some high MR threshold, when the only direct MR gate is MR 5 for Sorties (which aren't really considered endgame anymore), and the defining factor of that content tends to be mods, which themselves are a "progression scale" yet do not play at all into MR.

[Maka.Bones]

31 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Actually, there's a pretty clear bolded part of your post that your TL;DR told us was one of the main components to your post:

Which I just added, because everyone kept making the same comments about "realism" 

31 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This is an argument from realism. You are saying the game should change the way it animates reloads so as to emulate the physical act of removing the magazine before inserting another, with the implication that preset reload animations are "magic" and thus inherently bad. Putting aside how even games that do aim for a degree of realism, like Call of Duty (when the franchise isn't going into space anyways), do not have that degree of complexity to their reload animations, what you're asking is simply a very roundabout way of shortening our overall time spent reloading, all based on having reloads feel more realistic. Perhaps at a time when Warframe is advanced enough, we could have more complexity to our reloads, but as it stands it is both a silly and fastidious demand to make in its current state.

How is that from realism? Ships explode in this game, right? Enemies get torn from their limbs, or cut in half. I'm not asking for the magazine to be a 3d model on its own, with it's own physics. I'm just saying they could segment the reload into different portions:

1st step: Mag falls to the ground 

2nd step: We reload a new one

If we get interrupted before releasing the mag, then OFC we would have to start over. But if we're interrupted after the mag is dropped, then we should only have to start at reloading a new magazine...? It basically cuts the action/animation into two chained segments. 

 Like you realize that anything posted here on the forums, won't make it into the game until like 1-2 years from now? By then, I'd hope that warframe would be "advanced" enough, so I fail to see how it would be silly or fastidious (unlike your comments... by the way, that's exactly how you're being snobby. By making "belittling" remarks like calling my suggestion "silly" and "fastidious")

31 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

mplementing this entire new system that mixes reload speed with MR would be an order of magnitude more complicated than implementing some basic script that would shorten reload times on weapons by some amount. What you're proposing is in no way the simpler solution, and faster reloads are in absolutely no way "needed" at higher levels, where we have plenty enough mods and frame abilities to lower our reload times if really necessary.

How exactly would it be "an order of magnitude" more complicated? It's literally just a script that would increase reload speed by 1% = to MR value

And as far as having "plenty enough mods and frame abilities" Please make a list of the plethora of these abilities and mods... Because I literally just posted a picture of all the reload-related mods in the game, and I can only think of two warframe abilities that affect reload speeds. 

31 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Most games have a "progression scale", but MR as a progression scale is defined by the acquisition and ranking up of new frames, weapons, vehicles, and companions, all of which the game incentivizes you to buy with real money (to say nothing of the slots you have to pay for if you want to hold onto those items, or the accessories like potatoes or Forma that are essential to the effectiveness of said items). Directly tacking on combat power to this system that has been conspicuously avoiding this would in fact pose an ethical problem. You also seem to be under the impression that only MR 27 players or the like can access "endgame content", or that "endgame content" is locked behind some high MR threshold, when the only direct MR gate is MR 5 for Sorties (which aren't really considered endgame anymore), and the defining factor of that content tends to be mods, which themselves are a "progression scale" yet do not play at all into MR.

The second dream is locked behind MR progression. A lot more content than you've realized, is locked behind MR progression (even if it's just by virtue of having to level up the gear you need, like amps or better weapons) 

That's part of game progression. I see your point about "incentivizing purchases" but then what do you call the perks we already get with a higher MR? But hey sure, don't tie this with MR, propose another alternative instead. If it's really as easy as you said to lower all the weapon reload speeds, sure that's fine then. They're the ones who need to do the work, so I'm sure they'll do whatever is most efficient. (Even if it's ignoring this post lol)

Edited July 18, 2019 by Maka.Bones