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PhantomRen

We deserve a central trading hub.

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Posted (edited)

I understand that not everyone will be on board with this idea, but bear with me here. Every other successful MMO out there that has a trading system also has this: A place where you can easily put up offers to buy and sell items, allowing you to passively participate in commerce as you continue to enjoy the rest of the game. World of Warcraft and RuneScape are prime examples of this, they're both very old and very successful MMOs. The problem here is that trading breaks the flow of the game. It can be very annoying and time consuming to both buy and sell things, even with the use of trading sites. More often than not you'll go out of your way to message someone in-game, only to find out that they're either offline or already bought/sold the item with someone else. Sometimes you'll even get no response at all even though they're logged in. Very annoying.

 

Some players might be worried that prices will change due to the convenience of an "Auction House" or "Grand Exchange" but this is normal, and prices are bound to stabilize right away. As far as I'm concerned, warframe.market is already this game's Auction House/Grand Exchange except much more inconvenient. There's no reason to use Maroo's Bazaar for trading when trading sites and trade chat are all you'll ever need. This is why I propose we add a place where we can instantly buy and sell items across the game, just like you can in World of Warcraft, RuneScape and countless other successful MMOs. There's no real "community aspect" to trading in this game, the vast majority of players simply want to get in, buy the item they want and get out. That's just how it goes in gaming these days. People value their time and business is meant to be fast, efficient and reliable. So why can't Warframe's trading be fast, efficient and reliable too? Because right now, trading is the complete opposite of those three things.

 

I also believe that players should be able to access this trading center of sorts from their Orbiter, perhaps after a quest and some other requirements to make players work hard for the extra convenience. Because the pinnacle of the MMO trading experience involves standing outside an auction house crowded with players, frequently checking and managing trade offers, having conversations with nearby players and overall having a fun hangout where you can socialize while accumulating wealth. This might have been what the developers envisioned with Maroo's Bazaar, but believe me when I say it simply didn't work. Maroo's Bazaar is honestly for people who haven't heard of trading sites, going there to trade is like the equivalent of using Skype in 2019. Either way, I would love it if we had a central trading hub. Set up an item you're selling for a certain price, another player can search for that item and buy it, then both players get sent the items and platinum earned through their inbox. It's fast, clean and fun. Real auctions can also be a thing but that's optional.

 

Edit: There could also be an event that players have to beat in order to get this set up, since I doubt the Corpus or Grineer will be happy with the Tenno making a big, centralized trading hub that could potentially dominate the market. Completely optional though.

Edited by PhantomRen
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I agree, the game NEEDS a market/ auction house... Using third party websites is nice and warframe.market is awesome, but its just not enough, and it's 2019, mmorpgs have figured out how to do markets for 15 years...

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Oh god Maroos Bizarre ugh just ugh..... I can't even get into my disappointment with whatever that is supposed to be and am continually shocked at seeing that there are some people that actually use it.  

Frankly if it hadn't been for Warframe.market I probably would have quit the game a long time ago just because of how much of a trainwreck Warframes trading system is. 

I hate it that I have to turn to third party sites just to suss out the proximate value of what I'm trying to buy/sell and I barely trade as is. 

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1 minute ago, Oreades said:

Oh god Maroos Bizarre ugh just ugh..... I can't even get into my disappointment with whatever that is supposed to be and am continually shocked at seeing that there are some people that actually use it.  

Frankly if it hadn't been for Warframe.market I probably would have quit the game a long time ago just because of how much of a trainwreck Warframes trading system is. 

I hate it that I have to turn to third party sites just to suss out the proximate value of what I'm trying to buy/sell and I barely trade as is. 

Maroo's Bazar is basically what trading was in most F2P early MMORPGs... You'd create your "stand" and stand around AFK hoping someone would buy your stuff...

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I'd like a cleaner trading UI, but the best thing to expect is them just linking warframe.market. They've already said they're not gonna do afk trading, you'll have to interact with other people.

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4 minutes ago, Atsia said:

I'd like a cleaner trading UI, but the best thing to expect is them just linking warframe.market. They've already said they're not gonna do afk trading, you'll have to interact with other people.

Yeah, cause you know those people standing in maroo bazar semi-afk, or just afk, those guys are interacting with other people. It's backwards thinking and they know it.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Atsia said:

They've already said they're not gonna do afk trading, you'll have to interact with other people.

tbh....isnt that how warframe market really works.....if im ever selling or buying this i change my status to ingame.

At least I can do other things in game while im waiting to sell or buy....not sit around in the orbiter watching trade chat or maroos for hours.

I havent played it in years, but Rappelz used to be (or still is) the same way, where you set up a store spot in a city and just sit there people come and look at your wares and buy them....so what if you afk, your still in game....which is really no different than Maroo's...except that warframe has the trade cap 😐 except that the pl[ayer has to actually be there to do the full trade (for warframe)

Edited by Kalvorax

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14 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Maroo's Bazar is basically what trading was in most F2P early MMORPGs... You'd create your "stand" and stand around AFK hoping someone would buy your stuff...

But it isn't, as far as I am aware you actually have to be there to complete the trade. So there is no AFKing involved you just get to sit at your computer unless I've been completely mislead. 

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1 minute ago, Oreades said:

But it isn't, as far as I am aware you actually have to be there to complete the trade. So there is no AFKing involved you just get to sit at your computer unless I've been completely mislead. 

Yeah, but it's the same "style" of approach. Its dumb no matter where you look at it, but that's probably where they got the idea.

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21 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Yeah, but it's the same "style" of approach. Its dumb no matter where you look at it, but that's probably where they got the idea.

Well yeah it's dumb but there is a specific reason those MMOs chose that mechanic for their trading system and it was one of pure greed. For those MMOs at least from their inception in their home territories, people paid by the hours they are logged in. Their usage and billing for the MMO was essentially metered and when they came over to the west as F2P titles they didn't change those "stall" mechanics.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kalvorax said:

tbh....isnt that how warframe market really works.....if im ever selling or buying this i change my status to ingame.

At least I can do other things in game while im waiting to sell or buy....not sit around in the orbiter watching trade chat or maroos for hours.

I havent played it in years, but Rappelz used to be (or still is) the same way, where you set up a store spot in a city and just sit there people come and look at your wares and buy them....so what if you afk, your still in game....which is really no different than Maroo's...except that warframe has the trade cap 😐 except that the pl[ayer has to actually be there to do the full trade (for warframe)

By afk, I meant just buying straight from a list, no discussing price, no going to a Trade Post in a dojo. THAT kinda click and buy AFK trading is what DE is against. They want both players to be online AND directly interact with each other to trade.

Edited by Atsia
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Atsia said:

By afk, I meant just buying straight from a list, no discussing price, no going to a Trade Post in a dojo. THAT kinda click and buy AFK trading is what DE is against. They want both players to be online AND directly interact with each other to trade.

Honestly i rambled this for probably a year or more by now. The following pretty much can occur to completely dismantle trading in effective manner, in its trade chat method:

  1. Despite already inviting the player, buying the item with standing & both of you are about to head to the dojo or already be in it, the player could get a offer within that time that is much lower, which is a downside to the typical PM offers mentality that market chat creates. This ends up wasting syndicate points or even endo/credits from maxing a mod to sell to the player, unless you plan to sell your own personal max copy and max a 2nd one for yourself. A actual Trading system in place alleviates this critical flaw by giving us a proper modern, see what you want and get it or put up what you want to sell and have it get sold while your busy fishing or leveling gear. D.E. shouldnt have to moderate market chat, but i feel they could take better steps to have a system that actually works to make it less of a hassle to manage its multi-year aged state, especially if many players dont want to haggle but basically turn into sketchy looking con-men trying to get a proper tuna on the line with whatever sells/buys they find. Very least thats how i feel like market chat has gotten that messy and its only getting more silly on the PS4 side of things.
  2. Players might demand unreasonable values and give zero care you may of spent 4+ hours or even multiple days, trying to get a full set together, even going as far as to buy some of the parts to resell the entire set higher. Which is seriously a problem when sets give 0 profit compared to whatever was spent or time taken to get the full set. Plus with values dropping much faster then how fast they fell, even if you farmed all the parts, you would likely be forced to sell the set for a extremely low value for taking too long. Very least with a proper Trading system you can decide to put your set up for a higher value and let the frenzied tuna`ers buy up all the sets below it and then buy your own set.
  3. The usual no responders issue, simple enough but it can be frustrating when one could instantly reply to a person`s wtb post but get no response from up to 10 or even 30 mins. Plus one could of already had the same happen 5 or more times in a row, sure its a free market based system, but it does not help when players could easily cut into you whispering pmos and likely giving you no chance to even haggle to a fair price between both players. Least with a actual Trading station, it would be less on dealing with waits to scour trade chat for hits, put some heavy hoping the person didnt afk soon as they posted the message and might actually respond to you and finally, still hope they accept your deal at all.

Anyway lets just hope in the coming dev streams, D.E. starts taking more action to important systems in the game, cause i am already to the point where i have to have nearly 20 filters up to just have some hope to sift a actual WTBer who didnt AFK, likely watching a show and get a smidgeon of plat out of it.

Edited by Avienas
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5 hours ago, Avienas said:

Honestly i rambled this for probably a year or more by now. The following pretty much can occur to completely dismantle trading in effective manner, in its trade chat method:

  1. Despite already inviting the player, buying the item with standing & both of you are about to head to the dojo or already be in it, the player could get a offer within that time that is much lower, which is a downside to the typical PM offers mentality that market chat creates. This ends up wasting syndicate points or even endo/credits from maxing a mod to sell to the player, unless you plan to sell your own personal max copy and max a 2nd one for yourself. A actual Trading system in place alleviates this critical flaw by giving us a proper modern, see what you want and get it or put up what you want to sell and have it get sold while your busy fishing or leveling gear. D.E. shouldnt have to moderate market chat, but i feel they could take better steps to have a system that actually works to make it less of a hassle to manage its multi-year aged state, especially if many players dont want to haggle but basically turn into sketchy looking con-men trying to get a proper tuna on the line with whatever sells/buys they find. Very least thats how i feel like market chat has gotten that messy and its only getting more silly on the PS4 side of things.
  2. Players might demand unreasonable values and give zero care you may of spent 4+ hours or even multiple days, trying to get a full set together, even going as far as to buy some of the parts to resell the entire set higher. Which is seriously a problem when sets give 0 profit compared to whatever was spent or time taken to get the full set. Plus with values dropping much faster then how fast they fell, even if you farmed all the parts, you would likely be forced to sell the set for a extremely low value for taking too long. Very least with a proper Trading system you can decide to put your set up for a higher value and let the frenzied tuna`ers buy up all the sets below it and then buy your own set.
  3. The usual no responders issue, simple enough but it can be frustrating when one could instantly reply to a person`s wtb post but get no response from up to 10 or even 30 mins. Plus one could of already had the same happen 5 or more times in a row, sure its a free market based system, but it does not help when players could easily cut into you whispering pmos and likely giving you no chance to even haggle to a fair price between both players. Least with a actual Trading station, it would be less on dealing with waits to scour trade chat for hits, put some heavy hoping the person didnt afk soon as they posted the message and might actually respond to you and finally, still hope they accept your deal at all.

Anyway lets just hope in the coming dev streams, D.E. starts taking more action to important systems in the game, cause i am already to the point where i have to have nearly 20 filters up to just have some hope to sift a actual WTBer who didnt AFK, likely watching a show and get a smidgeon of plat out of it.

I find it difficult to believe that you put enough thought into those points to write them out, and not realise that what you were writing was nonsensical. 

#1 is basically "someone may offer a better price, so the trade will fall apart". Let's say that you go shopping in the mall for a common item, you pick up the item, have it in your cart, and suddenly remember that you saw it for sale in another store elsewhere. So while standing in line waiting to cash out, you check that store's page and realise that you can get the item for half off in that store, and decide to put it on your back on the shelf. Now the store manager was looking at you and saw that, and tells you that the reason why they lost the sale is because you used your telephone and saw that there's a better price elsewhere, would you agree that he should ban telephones in his store, and once you picked up the item that you should have to complete the trade? 

I'm thinking you'll respond "no that's dumb, the reason he lost the sale is because he priced the item poorly, and I'm allowed to change my mind at any time, for any reason". 

#2, what you wrote is beyond silly. Let's pretend that I bought something crappy and paid way too much, like a Braton Prime set for 100 plat. Do you think that gives me the right to demand that whoever I sell it to pays me 100 p, when they can get it for less than 10?

Nobody here needs to care about what effort you put into getting stuff, or how much you paid for it. All anyone needs to care about is how much they can buy it for right now. If you make a loss because you are bad at speculating, that's on you, nobody else. Don't expect anyone else to pay you for your bad judgement. 

Further, thinking that the proposed system will fix the problem for you, because "when the reasonably priced items sell out, someone will eventually buy my overpriced one" is ridiculous, because in the mean time, other people continue to offer their items for less than your overpriced set. You will never get a sale, not because "the system is preventing you from making your sale", but because you can't figure out how a free market works. 

#3 look, wrap your head around it: you are not entitled to any other players stuff. And you certainly aren't entitled to their time either. If I'm in a flea market and see that you have put ridiculous prices on your wares, I won't bother to try to get you to reduce the to a reasonable amount, I will just walk away. Same if I'm selling, if you ask me for a 90% discount below market value, and I will laugh right in your face. 

Nobody has to try to haggle with you, to get a reasonable price. Buying or selling, if I see someone trying to put up a price that is nowhere close to market value, I won't bother to respond to them at all. Set more realistic price points, and you will find trading much faster and easier. 

 

In each of those points, the issue isn't the archaic nature of the system, its that you just can't figure out how trade works in general. This is probably also why you are advocating for changes that would ultimately the ruin the economy; you just can't grasp what effects your proposal will have. 

In your case, figuring out how to use warframe.market would probably benefit you, and you can get to see why some of the points you wrote out would remain a problem for you under any system. 

 

 

BTW, I normally only use a couple of filters at any given time. Works wonderfully. I suspect that the issue is that you're trying to do something that just isn't logical, and can't figure out why you are having difficulty. 

 

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I’ve used warframe.market to do sales worth tens of thousands of Plat. I think fits pretty good, but you need to switch between the game and browser tabs efficiently.

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The trading system was utterly bewildering when starting out as a new player. Plus the fact the game completely neglects to mention that the 50 starter plat is untradable right up till the point you're in a trade window with someone...

Warframe market was a godsend but how many new players don't even know about it? An ingame marketplace like that is sorely needed.

Another thing about player interactions mentioned above... DE can maintain that by keeping a face to face meeting necessary. But please please remove the requirement to meet in a dojo or maroo's... it's so incredibly slow and clunky. Why not an option to meet on someone's orbiter instead perhaps?

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12 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Maroo's Bazar is basically what trading was in most F2P early MMORPGs... You'd create your "stand" and stand around AFK hoping someone would buy your stuff...

Yeah, I remember Lineage 2 used to handle it that way over a decade ago. I remember being astonished about how asinine and inconvenient that was, but chalked it up to legacy design from the EQ days where MMOs were trying to be as much medieval simulators as actual games. To find the Lineage 2 "stall" mechanic not just alive and well in Warframe in the year 2018 (when I discovered it), but quite literally the only supported means of trade was a culture shock. It's a bit like walking into a modern office building, asking for the toilet and being directed to a latrine in the basement because the building has no plumbing. Ugh...

I'll say what I've said every single time this comes up - just create an in-game implementation of Warframe.market. If you're that afraid of offline trades despite dozens of MMOs implementing that with no ill effect, just require both players to be online to complete the trade manually. Going to an external third-party site for the sake of a usable trading system because the game offers only a Byzantine trade chat and "baby's first marketplace" is embarrassing.

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People always tend to forget that warframe market only benefits players on PC. Nobody on the console side uses an outside source for trading. They need to implement something, because right now trading is just watching a wall of text, and you can't do anything else. It feels like watching paint dry.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I find it difficult to believe that you put enough thought into those points to write them out, and not realise that what you were writing was nonsensical. 

#1 is basically "someone may offer a better price, so the trade will fall apart". Let's say that you go shopping in the mall for a common item, you pick up the item, have it in your cart, and suddenly remember that you saw it for sale in another store elsewhere. So while standing in line waiting to cash out, you check that store's page and realise that you can get the item for half off in that store, and decide to put it on your back on the shelf. Now the store manager was looking at you and saw that, and tells you that the reason why they lost the sale is because you used your telephone and saw that there's a better price elsewhere, would you agree that he should ban telephones in his store, and once you picked up the item that you should have to complete the trade? 

  • Difference between going to a store and market chat is the former actually has a entire area dedicated to its own goods and you dont have people literally running up to you when you post your PM saying they want to offer it lower. The latter can easily have people offer at any time making you suddenly change your mind. Checking for lower values is fine but its rather annoying if you are literally at the FRONT of the registery, the clerk already ringed up your item and quite literally your about to pay for it till you suddenly see a lower offer and decide to say you suddenly want to cancel the order. Thus pissing off the employee and all the other people behind you for holding up the line because you want to spend 5 or 10 minutes browsing your phone. Honestly take some time to double think about your own post yourself. When you get the offer, party up with the person and literally walking up to trade station about to start the transaction is the window of being at the front of the line and checking out.
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I'm thinking you'll respond "no that's dumb, the reason he lost the sale is because he priced the item poorly, and I'm allowed to change my mind at any time, for any reason". 

#2, what you wrote is beyond silly. Let's pretend that I bought something crappy and paid way too much, like a Braton Prime set for 100 plat. Do you think that gives me the right to demand that whoever I sell it to pays me 100 p, when they can get it for less than 10?

  • Honestly most prime sets tend to range around the 100 after its first or so week many months ago even as far as the days of valkyr prime(which came out on11-22-2016), its just because of so-called market saturation(which does not really seem to give a single care of certain primes being of VERY USEFUL warframes nor the fact it has not gotten easier to get traces or open parts for primes, bounties would not be a significant enough explanation either for what is easily a 50~70% drop in value in the long term value on what it used to be earlier). that the values supposedly drop from 100ish, but if i have to remember by memory, 3 to 4 prime sets ago, it did not drop as drastically fast as usual. Value is suppose to drop but when it drops way too fast & too far, it basically further kills the reason to farm it since one could just farm 40 prime junk with less of a hassle then jumping thru many loops just to sell a single full prime set for 30~40 plat.
  • P.S. im not a arse of a idiot who just sez the u r stupid comment without trying to give a explanation, i rather try to back things then just doing the equivalency of a troll post.
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Nobody here needs to care about what effort you put into getting stuff, or how much you paid for it. All anyone needs to care about is how much they can buy it for right now. If you make a loss because you are bad at speculating, that's on you, nobody else. Don't expect anyone else to pay you for your bad judgement. 

  • They should not care but they should at least have a SMIDGEON of understanding its not some easy free-lo farm with the number of bugs (host migration especially if they decide to solo extract can cause everyone else to lose there loot with only maybe the ordis recovery system recovering, enemy spawn bug which can sometimes cause enemies to suddenly not spawn at all, ruining excavation & survival fissures) or how much work needs to be put into getting the relics, traces & get a bunch of people just to chance into one of the several parts.
  • Theres a reason people charge platinum for the parts AND effort put into getting them. What your wtbing when you buy the items is the goods and the effort to obtain them. If one is bad at speculating by literally taking only 3 to 6 hours to get all the parts within day 1 of obtaining them and yet the value becomes less then 50 plat when they were as high as 300 plat within the first 3 hours of its release, where the only way one could of obtained the parts quicker was literally no life farm all syndicate missions 1 to 3 months in ADVANCE via a mass relic pack stocking of medallions, well its just turning into another RNG-sus of rolling a bunch of relic packs to get them within the first 10 minutes of release to open them. Basically it kills much of the drive of normal farmers if barely anyone gives no care to pay a decent amount when it has not even been 24 hours since the prime drop, Hence why it might as well just be a automated market trade station where people can just drop off the parts, set the price and let them sell without having to baby sit them, while they spend time doing more fun stuff, after going thru all the grind just to get the parts, since no one can declare they ENJOY trying to sell parts directly in market chat while digging thru walls of troll or riven trash text, probably only a troll would, even if you have 3 dozen filters in place to hit most of the common terminologies that get spammed around market chat and still deal with a dozen or so posts a minute of text ranting about riven mods when your trying to focus on marketing with prime stuff. 
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Further, thinking that the proposed system will fix the problem for you, because "when the reasonably priced items sell out, someone will eventually buy my overpriced one" is ridiculous, because in the mean time, other people continue to offer their items for less than your overpriced set. You will never get a sale, not because "the system is preventing you from making your sale", but because you can't figure out how a free market works. 

  • Its why you update your value if people constantly put them up lower, The main part is you dont need to spend your time during it which kills alot of the hassle by not having to baby sit your sales. Someone will eventually buy it. But if it does not sell within 10~24 hours you can always lower the value by 5 or so plat and then it will likely sell by then. Plus you can just put up multiple items and tweak it like your playing with stock market, which market chat is VERY UNFRIENDLY to if you want to sell alot of items at once. Since most will likely see you as a annoying wall of text.
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#3 look, wrap your head around it: you are not entitled to any other players stuff. And you certainly aren't entitled to their time either. If I'm in a flea market and see that you have put ridiculous prices on your wares, I won't bother to try to get you to reduce the to a reasonable amount, I will just walk away. Same if I'm selling, if you ask me for a 90% discount below market value, and I will laugh right in your face. 

  • Not entitled to other players stuff yes, but i expect to make a sale if i am offering a blooming stance or rare mod for 7 plat which was normally worth 30 to begin with and having a less then 1% drop chance of it ever dropping at all and only on a specific enemy that has a rather uncommon chance of appearing. Market chat is a free market, people are suppose to haggle but then you either get people saying they want to buy your diamond encrusted ring for 1 penny or people trying to shove a literal dog turd on you for a hundred bucks. Does not help people are giving less of a care on linking the items so it becomes more of a pain to check how X item is obtained
  • Because honestly at this point D.E. should really include on the link, how to obtain X item and if it only drops from a enemy, throw in the % chances that are listed on the wikia for example so people actually have a bloody understanding that this aint a easy to get item.
  • Kind of why a actual market system would be useful cause a link for X item would ALWAYS be present and people would get a better idea why a mod like Vengeful revenant would normally be priced very highly since it has a .42% drop chance offa Conculysts and unless you enjoy Rathuum hard mode(.25% chance of dropping on clear), then you better actually be thankful to be able to get the item for a chunk of plat instead of crying you cant get it for 10 plat or less.
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Nobody has to try to haggle with you, to get a reasonable price. Buying or selling, if I see someone trying to put up a price that is nowhere close to market value, I won't bother to respond to them at all. Set more realistic price points, and you will find trading much faster and easier. 

  • Same applies to LOWER values, i could track warframe.market or similar sites which are following the PS4 side of things and be sticking to the average value, sometimes even going 10~20% lower then the average and yet i would still run into PLENTY of people demanding it much lower or getting pissed at me for offering it for too much plat as how they would declare it. ME HAPS THINKZ WE NEED A INTERNAL AVERAGE TRACKER FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS WHEN TRADED FOR PLAT DONCHA THINKZ???
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In each of those points, the issue isn't the archaic nature of the system, its that you just can't figure out how trade works in general. This is probably also why you are advocating for changes that would ultimately the ruin the economy; you just can't grasp what effects your proposal will have. 

In your case, figuring out how to use warframe.market would probably benefit you, and you can get to see why some of the points you wrote out would remain a problem for you under any system. 

  • Final Fantasy 11, Final Fantasy 14, Mabinogi and Vindicitus are a few simplified market trade systems i like to reference to which use more effective systems. Highly valued items tend to get over-priced as f, common things like crafting materials used for important goods tend to keep a steady good value. Even the whole setup your own bazaar and lay a cat on it to babysit it, mabinogi`s system is a much more efficient system since i can usually check for things people desire alot like how HOLY water is always a high in demand good for blessing gear to reduce durability lost and not have the gear poof if  you die. Trade is fine but its not a Trade chat, its a Market chat, which would even be loads better if we just had a giant signboard where we can see a bunch of offers at once then a constant scrolling mess of text with a actual filter to update it to narrow it down immediately on all active posts. We dont even have a /CLEAR command to clean up text we just filtered out to hopefully only see the posts we are interested in and not see more of the usual text mess of stuff that people cant even take the time to properly write out weapon/mod/arcane/prime part names correctly.
  • Honestly a 3rd party site system can be done in the most amazing way but it literally means ZILTCH if its not have some way to reach it in-game or a good deal of its features are not built into the game. Because you will always have many players who likely are not informed by other players of such a magical little site and will continue to shuffle around values however they want even if the average on warframe.market is much different to where they could be getting ripped off or overcharging too much without really understanding, wasting many hours trying to sell one item only to realize they were selling it way too high OR they could of bought something much cheaper or sold something much higher.
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BTW, I normally only use a couple of filters at any given time. Works wonderfully. I suspect that the issue is that you're trying to do something that just isn't logical, and can't figure out why you are having difficulty. 

 

  • People wanting to demand X weapon riven, without saying riven and then throwing up things like crit, rng, atk spd, dmg, etc. or in the riven affix lines or just outright link they riven they want to buy, basically declaring they want a DUPLICATE of the exact same riven they have. People wanting to mis-spell things like galatine, wukong, stradavar, pyrana, etc. people wanting to wtb guardian mod but they meant arcane guardian despite literally writing out the bracket link for guardian. Thats basically a general idea on how much stuff i have to manage to clean up with my filters and i still can run into the stuff.
  • You literally cant even filter out JUST prime and relic and not see any text wtb/wts-ing relics and prime parts anymore which helps to FURTHER make the filter system partially redundant. Because people are either intentionally avoiding using those terminologies or just writing it short handed in a rather retarded manner, that pretty much might go as far to being unable to identify what they are trying to wtb/wts or it can easily be read in a completely wrong manner.

P.S. small edition, If people had a proper understanding to market chat, if you want to BUY prime stuff you should be SAYING prime stuff instead of just ranting out your text of wanting to buy X weapon without including P or Prime in it. That way if you include the Prime in it, people who likely have filters to track Prime stuff would see it and actually WANT to sell it, The people who are only interested in arcanes, mods, rivens, etc. are more then likely not going to give a single care about you wanting to buy prime stuff at all. TL;DR: If you want to sell/buy X item, bloody keep your messages consistent so only interested parties can see it and not just turn into the equivalency of troll text for everyone else.

 

Edited by Avienas
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31 minutes ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

People always tend to forget that warframe market only benefits players on PC. Nobody on the console side uses an outside source for trading. They need to implement something, because right now trading is just watching a wall of text, and you can't do anything else. It feels like watching paint dry.

Not true, warframe.market has console specific markets and they are active.
I'm correcting you, not because i don't think that we need a ingame market, but because we won't convince anyone with blatantly false arguments.

 

28 minutes ago, Avienas said:

All that text and both of you are just talking nonsense. Seriously... I stopped halfway, because it's just gibberish... Most of the stuff you're arguing doesn't really apply to an in-game market system, and you're just arguing around poor examples if you guys want to nitpick each others poor examples, just PM each other.

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Guild Wars 2 market sysytem is the best I have seen so far. You put what you have to sell on there. It takes a certain of credits from you (in game currency sink). Someone buys what they want from you (costs them credits as well). All passive trading. You check back later to see what you bought or sold and get your Plat (gold there) or your item. It's a no-hassle streamlined system that has never been hacked and is extremely convenient for all.. Easy, Breezy, Tenno squeezy.

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If they want to keep the interaction between buyer and seller then fine. 
Still, a middleman NPC/syndicate of sorts (Darvo or Maroo maybe?) that offers a buy/sell noticeboard or something would be really handy, mayeb 
Hell there could be something like list of items with asking price(WTS) , "looking for" offers (WTB), and "Want:have" offers (WTT) or just open "Have" listings (PMO), all with necessary information about the seller (Offline/Menus/Mission).
Finding a seller/buyer is a first step to interacting with them, and adding some sort of assist in that would go along way to help with that.
(maybe a button to start conversation, and some sort of UI prompt to the one that set up the listing, to check if the listing is still valid after a few minutes from the initiation of conversation? Just to Streamline the process)

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17 hours ago, Atsia said:

I'd like a cleaner trading UI, but the best thing to expect is them just linking warframe.market. They've already said they're not gonna do afk trading, you'll have to interact with other people.

 

4 minutes ago, Drejzer said:

If they want to keep the interaction between buyer and seller then fine.

The problem is, there's already no real interaction between players. On paper you'd think there is, but in practice that's simply not what happens. No matter what DE or anyone else thinks, the vast majority of players across all video games with a trading system simply want to get in and get out as fast as possible when trading. Genuinely nobody cares who you are when you trade with them. If you complete a trade with me I might give the customary "Thanks" or "Enjoy" or "Have a nice day" but that's just standard procedure. To me it's the equivalent of an automated customer support email. Most people who act polite in trading do it not because they actually care, but just because that's what's expected and being nice raises the chance of getting positive reputation. It's all just business, and businesses don't care who you are. Their goal is to make money. There's no sunshine and rainbows and the magical power of friendship when you trade, either you get over here and trade with me ASAP or I'll do business with someone else. That's why this whole "Interaction" and "Community aspect" of trading is complete and utter nonsense. And I think DE needs to open their eyes to reality, because having a central trading hub like a Grand Exchange or an Auction House is the golden standard for MMOs these days. There's data out there to back up the fact that having a system like this is VERY healthy for an MMO. Not to mention Warframe would be dead without trading, and I'd even argue that the game would be more lively if we had a real trading hub. Because if you look at other MMOs with a proper trading hub, you'll always see lots of players hanging out there, trading and socializing with each other. Honestly, DE is shooting themselves in the foot at this point and letting the wound get infected by refusing to accept change. Yes, it might be their game, but they are genuinely missing out on many opportunities to both improve the game and make more money.

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2 hours ago, Grahark said:

Guild Wars 2 market sysytem is the best I have seen so far. You put what you have to sell on there. It takes a certain of credits from you (in game currency sink). Someone buys what they want from you (costs them credits as well). All passive trading. You check back later to see what you bought or sold and get your Plat (gold there) or your item. It's a no-hassle streamlined system that has never been hacked and is extremely convenient for all.. Easy, Breezy, Tenno squeezy.

Ultimately the perfect way of keeping it simple. Only hassle i had with GW2 was how it tended to get screwballie when it comes to the gold/crystal exchange rates, but least that is able to be done at ANY time compared to trying to make plat on warframe where each person can have a entirely different want on the value. Triple brownie points though since it was relatively quick to post items for sale with a average value checker and vice-versa people could buy items nao to boot.

Honestly maybe i am getting rather huge on these TANGENT semi-rants that might be getting off-topic on my posts. But for cripes sakes do we REALLY need to get into a detailed fk-ton of explanations on why market chat in its current state is bad? Its a time sink to get the stuff(EXCEPT you need to have the items on hand before in advance and likely know if said items are actually selling actively and for a good value), time sink to sift thru chat to find a hit, time sink to get in contact with another player and have them respond to you over what could turn into 6~20 people PMing them, time sink to party up with them and then do the actual trade, time sink to repeat the process till you hit X sufficient platinum.

Other marketing systems that i could probably list a dozen of them if i really try recalling keep it simple. Get an Item, put it up on market, go do something else, pick up the sale money after its sold, process over and you arent stressed by watching the entire thing. This does not account for very unstable pricing, lack of accurate pricing history to use for reference, IN THE GAME ITSELF, cleaning up chat thru use of filters to minimize unnecessary text you wish to see, crunching the appropriate value with likely no accurate idea to PMO to other people likely within 10 seconds or less of seeing the post and so many more. Honestly i could keep going on but you should get the point, warframe market chat needs to follow the K.I.S.S. logic: Keep It Simple Stupid.

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19 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

AFK hoping someone would buy your stuff...

I'd like to be able to put a price tag on my stuff. So when you see what's for sale you see the price I want to sell it for too. 

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21 hours ago, Avienas said:
  • Difference between going to a store and market chat is the former actually has a entire area dedicated to its own goods and you dont have people literally running up to you when you post your PM saying they want to offer it lower. The latter can easily have people offer at any time making you suddenly change your mind. Checking for lower values is fine but its rather annoying if you are literally at the FRONT of the registery, the clerk already ringed up your item and quite literally your about to pay for it till you suddenly see a lower offer and decide to say you suddenly want to cancel the order. Thus pissing off the employee and all the other people behind you for holding up the line because you want to spend 5 or 10 minutes browsing your phone. Honestly take some time to double think about your own post yourself. When you get the offer, party up with the person and literally walking up to trade station about to start the transaction is the window of being at the front of the line and checking out.
  • Honestly most prime sets tend to range around the 100 after its first or so week many months ago even as far as the days of valkyr prime(which came out on11-22-2016), its just because of so-called market saturation(which does not really seem to give a single care of certain primes being of VERY USEFUL warframes nor the fact it has not gotten easier to get traces or open parts for primes, bounties would not be a significant enough explanation either for what is easily a 50~70% drop in value in the long term value on what it used to be earlier). that the values supposedly drop from 100ish, but if i have to remember by memory, 3 to 4 prime sets ago, it did not drop as drastically fast as usual. Value is suppose to drop but when it drops way too fast & too far, it basically further kills the reason to farm it since one could just farm 40 prime junk with less of a hassle then jumping thru many loops just to sell a single full prime set for 30~40 plat.
  • P.S. im not a arse of a idiot who just sez the u r stupid comment without trying to give a explanation, i rather try to back things then just doing the equivalency of a troll post.
  • They should not care but they should at least have a SMIDGEON of understanding its not some easy free-lo farm with the number of bugs (host migration especially if they decide to solo extract can cause everyone else to lose there loot with only maybe the ordis recovery system recovering, enemy spawn bug which can sometimes cause enemies to suddenly not spawn at all, ruining excavation & survival fissures) or how much work needs to be put into getting the relics, traces & get a bunch of people just to chance into one of the several parts.
  • Theres a reason people charge platinum for the parts AND effort put into getting them. What your wtbing when you buy the items is the goods and the effort to obtain them. If one is bad at speculating by literally taking only 3 to 6 hours to get all the parts within day 1 of obtaining them and yet the value becomes less then 50 plat when they were as high as 300 plat within the first 3 hours of its release, where the only way one could of obtained the parts quicker was literally no life farm all syndicate missions 1 to 3 months in ADVANCE via a mass relic pack stocking of medallions, well its just turning into another RNG-sus of rolling a bunch of relic packs to get them within the first 10 minutes of release to open them. Basically it kills much of the drive of normal farmers if barely anyone gives no care to pay a decent amount when it has not even been 24 hours since the prime drop, Hence why it might as well just be a automated market trade station where people can just drop off the parts, set the price and let them sell without having to baby sit them, while they spend time doing more fun stuff, after going thru all the grind just to get the parts, since no one can declare they ENJOY trying to sell parts directly in market chat while digging thru walls of troll or riven trash text, probably only a troll would, even if you have 3 dozen filters in place to hit most of the common terminologies that get spammed around market chat and still deal with a dozen or so posts a minute of text ranting about riven mods when your trying to focus on marketing with prime stuff. 
  • Its why you update your value if people constantly put them up lower, The main part is you dont need to spend your time during it which kills alot of the hassle by not having to baby sit your sales. Someone will eventually buy it. But if it does not sell within 10~24 hours you can always lower the value by 5 or so plat and then it will likely sell by then. Plus you can just put up multiple items and tweak it like your playing with stock market, which market chat is VERY UNFRIENDLY to if you want to sell alot of items at once. Since most will likely see you as a annoying wall of text.
  • Not entitled to other players stuff yes, but i expect to make a sale if i am offering a blooming stance or rare mod for 7 plat which was normally worth 30 to begin with and having a less then 1% drop chance of it ever dropping at all and only on a specific enemy that has a rather uncommon chance of appearing. Market chat is a free market, people are suppose to haggle but then you either get people saying they want to buy your diamond encrusted ring for 1 penny or people trying to shove a literal dog turd on you for a hundred bucks. Does not help people are giving less of a care on linking the items so it becomes more of a pain to check how X item is obtained
  • Because honestly at this point D.E. should really include on the link, how to obtain X item and if it only drops from a enemy, throw in the % chances that are listed on the wikia for example so people actually have a bloody understanding that this aint a easy to get item.
  • Kind of why a actual market system would be useful cause a link for X item would ALWAYS be present and people would get a better idea why a mod like Vengeful revenant would normally be priced very highly since it has a .42% drop chance offa Conculysts and unless you enjoy Rathuum hard mode(.25% chance of dropping on clear), then you better actually be thankful to be able to get the item for a chunk of plat instead of crying you cant get it for 10 plat or less.
  • Same applies to LOWER values, i could track warframe.market or similar sites which are following the PS4 side of things and be sticking to the average value, sometimes even going 10~20% lower then the average and yet i would still run into PLENTY of people demanding it much lower or getting pissed at me for offering it for too much plat as how they would declare it. ME HAPS THINKZ WE NEED A INTERNAL AVERAGE TRACKER FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS WHEN TRADED FOR PLAT DONCHA THINKZ???
  • Final Fantasy 11, Final Fantasy 14, Mabinogi and Vindicitus are a few simplified market trade systems i like to reference to which use more effective systems. Highly valued items tend to get over-priced as f, common things like crafting materials used for important goods tend to keep a steady good value. Even the whole setup your own bazaar and lay a cat on it to babysit it, mabinogi`s system is a much more efficient system since i can usually check for things people desire alot like how HOLY water is always a high in demand good for blessing gear to reduce durability lost and not have the gear poof if  you die. Trade is fine but its not a Trade chat, its a Market chat, which would even be loads better if we just had a giant signboard where we can see a bunch of offers at once then a constant scrolling mess of text with a actual filter to update it to narrow it down immediately on all active posts. We dont even have a /CLEAR command to clean up text we just filtered out to hopefully only see the posts we are interested in and not see more of the usual text mess of stuff that people cant even take the time to properly write out weapon/mod/arcane/prime part names correctly.
  • Honestly a 3rd party site system can be done in the most amazing way but it literally means ZILTCH if its not have some way to reach it in-game or a good deal of its features are not built into the game. Because you will always have many players who likely are not informed by other players of such a magical little site and will continue to shuffle around values however they want even if the average on warframe.market is much different to where they could be getting ripped off or overcharging too much without really understanding, wasting many hours trying to sell one item only to realize they were selling it way too high OR they could of bought something much cheaper or sold something much higher.
  • People wanting to demand X weapon riven, without saying riven and then throwing up things like crit, rng, atk spd, dmg, etc. or in the riven affix lines or just outright link they riven they want to buy, basically declaring they want a DUPLICATE of the exact same riven they have. People wanting to mis-spell things like galatine, wukong, stradavar, pyrana, etc. people wanting to wtb guardian mod but they meant arcane guardian despite literally writing out the bracket link for guardian. Thats basically a general idea on how much stuff i have to manage to clean up with my filters and i still can run into the stuff.
  • You literally cant even filter out JUST prime and relic and not see any text wtb/wts-ing relics and prime parts anymore which helps to FURTHER make the filter system partially redundant. Because people are either intentionally avoiding using those terminologies or just writing it short handed in a rather retarded manner, that pretty much might go as far to being unable to identify what they are trying to wtb/wts or it can easily be read in a completely wrong manner.

P.S. small edition, If people had a proper understanding to market chat, if you want to BUY prime stuff you should be SAYING prime stuff instead of just ranting out your text of wanting to buy X weapon without including P or Prime in it. That way if you include the Prime in it, people who likely have filters to track Prime stuff would see it and actually WANT to sell it, The people who are only interested in arcanes, mods, rivens, etc. are more then likely not going to give a single care about you wanting to buy prime stuff at all. TL;DR: If you want to sell/buy X item, bloody keep your messages consistent so only interested parties can see it and not just turn into the equivalency of troll text for everyone else.

 

Dude, seriously, get a grip. 

1) As a customer nobody needs to gaf if you think that it's annoying that they don't end up buying an item. Hell real world stores even take returns because you decided (for whatever reason) that you didn't want the item, after you bought it. 

2) Guess what, buddy, if you think that you know what market saturation looks like, you really don't. What do you think is going to happen when 100k players all have the same cruft listed up while they're playing? (I suspect that you will have great fun posting walls of text highlighting your lack of understanding about free markets, when the price drops to 1% of the initial value.) 

3) Again, nobody has to care about the "effort" you put into getting the items. Nobody has to factor that into their pricing. The only thing, anyone needs to care about is that they have plat, and you want it, you're one of a great number of people have have an item and they want it, so for the buyer finding the point at which they can give a seller the least plat for the item is the bottom line. If you are not interested in what they're offering, they will just find someone who is. EZ-PZ. 

Nowhere in that equation is "give a crap about how you got the item". 

4) Regarding the fact that some people offer lower than even warframe.market prices, ain't no surprise there. Try posting up a wtb in trade on a busy day, at less than the lowest price on that site and see if you don't get any invite requests. (You will, unless it's an extremely rare part, or you just went way too cheap.) 

5) Good news, the instant you wrote about FFwhatevernumber you highlighted that you have no clue as to what the differences in the economic model used by that and warframe are. That whole piece gets ignored, because it has even less value for trade in Warframe than Iradite. 

6) The filter is a very simple system. The fact that you are having trouble figuring it out is on you. Instead of trying to over complicate it, just put a positive filter for the item you want to buy or sell first. Don't use WTB or WTS, just put the name. Like galatine. Seeing both the WTS and WTB messages will help you to find a working price point, which is something that you obviously have trouble with. 

As a hint for how badly you have been messing up, I'll just say that you don't need to put "prime" in the term, because you can't trade the vast majority of non-prime parts. 

Spend less effort making terms that don't do what you want, and more time learning how the filter works. Also, for future reference, trying to blame everyone else in the game, for your inability to make effective use of the filter, is a losing strategy. Just saying. 

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