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PhantomRen

We deserve a central trading hub.

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I totally agree with the OP. This is actually the only thing I miss in Warframe. It is insanely clunky and inconvenient to use the Warframe market and try to get hold of you seller in-between your missions and his. I think the main concern with a global market is the risk of overflowing the market with goods and the subsequent decline in prices, but that could be mitigated by

(1) limiting the number of things you can put up for sale quite heavliy (such as max MR/2 number of items)

(2) high sales tax and plat tax on sales (to prevent price dumping)

(3) tighter "volting" of relics and prime parts to regulate the number of available items in the game

(4) restrict the market to be available only when you are online (thus when you go offline your goods become invisible to buyers). The latter should be very effective, and also encourage people to be online and PLAY while their goods are up for sale.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Too long to bloody see it as nothing but attempting to grill a person who had to dive too deep into talking about stuff that it turned into text wall repeats to text wall repeat replies.

Lets just bloody stop with the text walls and keep it simple so others can bloody actually say what they think:

  • Market Chat in Warframe is a piece of crap now a days and having SOMETHING done to it, is better then leaving it in its current state. Crying about it aint gonna help at all at this point, Nor is bloody having people who rather have just as much fun constantly bashing people who just want to state other market systems that did not cause as much head-ache as b.s. rates in a gacha for very poorly done mobile games.

Going to not do any more dang replies to this thread because its just turning into just as much of a waste of time, as when i end up spending over an hour just trying to sell a bunch of things and want to at least make 100 platinum, but most of that time is spent trying to even get a reply back even if i go thru 10 wtb replies in less then 5 minutes and most do not even reply to simple: Hello, are you still buying X item?, or simple price PMs.

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5 hours ago, miramiranda said:

I totally agree with the OP. This is actually the only thing I miss in Warframe. It is insanely clunky and inconvenient to use the Warframe market and try to get hold of you seller in-between your missions and his. I think the main concern with a global market is the risk of overflowing the market with goods and the subsequent decline in prices, but that could be mitigated by

(1) limiting the number of things you can put up for sale quite heavliy (such as max MR/2 number of items)

(2) high sales tax and plat tax on sales (to prevent price dumping)

(3) tighter "volting" of relics and prime parts to regulate the number of available items in the game

(4) restrict the market to be available only when you are online (thus when you go offline your goods become invisible to buyers). The latter should be very effective, and also encourage people to be online and PLAY while their goods are up for sale.

  1. Pretty much what I always assumed they would do
  2. Shouldn't be high but there should be some sort of plat tax on it, I mean it's one of the places in game where they could work in a reasonable plat sink without people really batting an eye.
  3. NO, hard NO that's the kind of shiz Blizzard pulled with their RMT Auction house and the reason D3 was a train wreck. 
  4. Nope all that is going to "encourage" is for people to leave Warframe running while they are literally AFK (at work, at school, outside, etc) it in no way encourages active gameplay. 

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2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Lets just bloody stop with the text walls and keep it simple so others can bloody actually say what they think:

  • Market Chat in Warframe is a piece of crap now a days and having SOMETHING done to it, is better then leaving it in its current state. Crying about it aint gonna help at all at this point, Nor is bloody having people who rather have just as much fun constantly bashing people who just want to state other market systems that did not cause as much head-ache as b.s. rates in a gacha for very poorly done mobile games.

Going to not do any more dang replies to this thread because its just turning into just as much of a waste of time, as when i end up spending over an hour just trying to sell a bunch of things and want to at least make 100 platinum, but most of that time is spent trying to even get a reply back even if i go thru 10 wtb replies in less then 5 minutes and most do not even reply to simple: Hello, are you still buying X item?, or simple price PMs.

Again absolutely nothing of worth because you don't even begin to understand how trade works. 

 

Market chat and a bartering system is the definition of a KISS system. You support KISS systems? It's what you have. Same holds true for the filters. 

If you can't figure out how to make something so very basic work, you are certainly not going to be able to propose improvements, because you just aren't grasping the economic model that we have here and why the differences mean that you cannot import a trade system. It would crash the economy. 

 

 

BTW "bloody"... see? I can do it too. 😂

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again absolutely nothing of worth because you don't even begin to understand how trade works. 

 

Market chat and a bartering system is the definition of a KISS system. You support KISS systems? It's what you have. Same holds true for the filters. 

If you can't figure out how to make something so very basic work, you are certainly not going to be able to propose improvements, because you just aren't grasping the economic model that we have here and why the differences mean that you cannot import a trade system. It would crash the economy. 

 

 

BTW "bloody"... see? I can do it too. 😂

Honestly i was going to avoid replying again, but let me correct you on a few things before i leave:

KISS in terms of involved interactions, not what the system itself was put in place, aka the most minimal of functions that were put into place. Which really is just a Chat box, A whisper function & a trade station, Literally all the actions from A to Z are left entirely to the players to do. Filter system is technically just a optional addition, which was likely only crammed in, because too many people complained about being unable to read names or messages, because things scrolled by too absurdly fast. Now that despite having a filter system, market chat still scrolls rather fast or constantly has messages of below minimum effort written, which a good portion of the time, ends up skipping thru filters you expect to work and these same messages a good deal of the time, will not PROPERLY convey what the person is selling or buying in a coherent manner.

And just in case you want to bash a remark at the involved interaction bit on how it should be, KISS, i am talking about:

  1. Person A puts up item X for sale & can walk away to take care other things.
  2. Person B sees item X for sale & buys it, without needing to contact Person A to purchase it.
  3. Person A received payment for item X in inbox, transaction is done and both Person A & Persona B received what they wanted with minimum interaction involved at all.

Simple, easy and alot less of a mess then what existing market chat is right now. But i am sure you will just find something else to bash in this reply and continue to harass again.

Basic only works if its expected that anything involved with it would be BASIC. Not a mess of people who can`t even type buying/selling messages properly, mixed in with those actually wanting to do trade interactions & region chat wanting to constantly bleed out into recruit/market chat because anyone with a actual brain keeps region chat tab turned off.

Even if we toss out the economic part, market chat if its not obvious enough to you, is just another region chat at this point where even filters will not allow one to remove seeing what is basically spam messages to you, since you are not interested in buying/selling items A, B or C, yet there is plenty of people almost all the time, wanting to churn out messages of selling those things without even writing A, B or C. in the buy/sell messages they want to write.

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3 hours ago, Avienas said:

KISS in terms of involved interactions, not what the system itself was put in place, aka the most minimal of functions that were put into place.

=Snip=

No. 

"Keep it simple, Stupid". That's it. The end. If you were following your own advice by keeping it simple, you would have had fewer problems. 

But greed is a significant motivator, so you tried to complicate it without even understanding how the simple way works. Fortunately nobody needs to care about why you think you are entitled to more plat, and the market has obviously been reminding you of that. 

I've made suggestions but you have apparently not been able to see the logic behind them. 

And again I remind you that if you are having so much difficulty with the filter, perhaps the problem is that you haven't been using it correctly. (Hint: you didn't even realise that nobody needs to write "prime" for a very obvious reason, so you can be 100% certain that you haven't got any clue as to how to do what you are trying to do.) 

 

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While back I designed something they could use as a starting point:

Didn't take.. no idea why but who knows.. 5 years later .. maybe now people are ready to look at a system like this 🙂

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On 2019-07-19 at 2:14 AM, Oreades said:

Oh god Maroos Bizarre ugh just ugh.....

Warframe's obscurity issue #31154: nowhere is it mentioned that you need to hit the GEAR WHEEL button to start trading.

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Auction house will lower the prices so much that the F2P will die.

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Il y a 5 heures, supernils a dit :

Warframe's obscurity issue #31154: nowhere is it mentioned that you need to hit the GEAR WHEEL button to start trading.

Yeah... 

Some dude wanted to trade in Maroo's Bazaar (neither of us had a dojo) but I didn't know how so instead of simply asking how to do it, my stupid social awkwardness showed up and I ALT+F4 the game 

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Can not agree more. I enjoy selling things to be honest. It can be very satisfying but it would be great to have an option to just passively sell items that I do not want to keep advertising. It would be great for Rivens too because finding someone who wants one for a second rate weapon can be difficult but that would just let me passively post it. Having an option for both would be amazing!

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10 hours ago, supernils said:

Warframe's obscurity issue #31154: nowhere is it mentioned that you need to hit the GEAR WHEEL button to start trading.

???

Right on screen as soon as you enter the Bazaar I'm automatically told the Set Up Shop button is above the Emote wheel.  That's technically slightly out of date information since the gear/emote rework, but it's clear enough for anyone to figure out in seconds.  Even when I'm there when it's busiest the message is in the chat window long enough to read it.

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Funny story. Logged in just to try the trade chat filter method with the "WTB" filter on. I saw mostly WTB[insert random object] Immediately followed by WTS [insert object here] text. what is the point of the filter ? it doesn't matter what channel you use it's ALL WTS . "50 million" "Players" . Zero - QA for the economy of the game. The trade system of Warframe is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outdated, We grind , we want to sell, we have to go to an outside source that is somehow linked to the game. seems like I am using DoS. 

 

C://WTS//Sell//AXIL4//90000pl//ASL

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I have been wanting this for the past 4 years+.

The terribly old paradigm of Everquest Trade Chat is of an ancient, bygone era that deserves to be left in the dust of innovative and creative methods to improve trading within an MMO.  Such is the case with WoW, Rift, and many many many other games.

Why DE chose to disregard the myriad chants and cries for a better trading system has gone beyond the level of insanity.  Adding pyrrhic bandaids like chat filters does next to nothing to alleviate the spam that is Trade chat.

And as the OP and countless others who have done threads to this VERY subject have mentioned, there is nothing "FUN" about sitting in front of your computer for hours on end sifting through a plethora of text messages.  In a fast pace action-oriented game, why are we players regulated to idleness reading endless streams of scrolling text?

IT.

MAKES.

NO.

SENSE.

For the love of all the gods in every known pantheon, both in the real world and all RPG worlds combined, PLEASE build an auction house!  Make it accessible on relays and in dojos using the Trading Post.  This way, those who also want to socialize and show off their fashion frames have multiple areas to do so, and those who want to be left alone can go to their own dojos.

And an idea when setting up an item to be sold, allow the player to set the amount of platinum for their item AND, if so desired, a list of items said player is willing to accept in a trade.  For example, let's say I have a Nova Prime Chassis I want to sell for X platinum, I can also accept a trade for another prime part, some mods, arcanes, etc.  It's then up to the buyer to determine what they are willing to spend/trade for that item.

The coding for trading is already there.  Simply create the means to do it more efficiently.

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9 hours ago, Grahark said:

Funny story. Logged in just to try the trade chat filter method with the "WTB" filter on. I saw mostly WTB[insert random object] Immediately followed by WTS [insert object here] text. what is the point of the filter ? it doesn't matter what channel you use it's ALL WTS . "50 million" "Players" . Zero - QA for the economy of the game. The trade system of Warframe is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outdated, We grind , we want to sell, we have to go to an outside source that is somehow linked to the game. seems like I am using DoS. 

 

C://WTS//Sell//AXIL4//90000pl//ASL

Funny story needs work. Right now it just reads like "one time, I tried to use a thing, and it turns out that I had no idea what I was doing, and did the wrong thing, so I blame the system instead of myself for not being able to figure out how to do something simple". 

 

 

What you did is ask to see every line that contained the term "WTB" regardless of what else it contains. 

What you seem to have been trying to do, was remove any line containing "WTS". That would have required you to enter a negative/does not contain filter by toggling the button. 

Of course what would have been an even better idea is to think about what item you want to buy or sell, and apply a positive/contains filter on that instead, so you can see all wtb/wts messages containing that item. That helps you to find a useful price range based on current trends. 

 

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On 2019-07-18 at 4:21 PM, PhantomRen said:

Edit: There could also be an event that players have to beat in order to get this set up, since I doubt the Corpus or Grineer will be happy with the Tenno making a big, centralized trading hub that could potentially dominate the market. Completely optional though

Why not just rework Maroo's Bazaar into this? No explanation necessary. 

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6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Funny story needs work. Right now it just reads like "one time, I tried to use a thing, and it turns out that I had no idea what I was doing, and did the wrong thing, so I blame the system instead of myself for not being able to figure out how to do something simple". 

 

 

What you did is ask to see every line that contained the term "WTB" regardless of what else it contains. 

What you seem to have been trying to do, was remove any line containing "WTS". That would have required you to enter a negative/does not contain filter by toggling the button. 

Of course what would have been an even better idea is to think about what item you want to buy or sell, and apply a positive/contains filter on that instead, so you can see all wtb/wts messages containing that item. That helps you to find a useful price range based on current trends. 

 

Well that is the "Funny" part of the story. 

 

Filter the trade chat with simply WTB. 

 

Every single thing that pops in has WTB quickly followed in the link with a WTS attached. 

Kinda makes the filter obsolete. Clunky. Old. Outdated. Unnecessary. Downright dumb. 

 

Thanks for trying, or I don't know, try doing it yourself.

 

Either way it was an experiment with using the trade chat filter to see if I only got WTB posts to show up. Alas WTS also was attached to them all..

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3 hours ago, Grahark said:

Well that is the "Funny" part of the story. 

 

Filter the trade chat with simply WTB. 

 

Every single thing that pops in has WTB quickly followed in the link with a WTS attached. 

Kinda makes the filter obsolete. Clunky. Old. Outdated. Unnecessary. Downright dumb. 

 

Thanks for trying, or I don't know, try doing it yourself.

 

Either way it was an experiment with using the trade chat filter to see if I only got WTB posts to show up. Alas WTS also was attached to them all..

Every line that pops up has "wtb" because you asked to see every line with wtb in it. If you don't want to see "WTS", filter that out instead. 

It's a very simple concept, and a very simple system. I'm sorry you're having trouble grasping how it works, but that's on your end. 

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lmao good number of mooks defending this lousy excuse of a trading system. Guess they enjoy sitting in front of the screen for x hours a week filtering through messages to trade. 

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

lmao good number of mooks defending this lousy excuse of a trading system. Guess they enjoy sitting in front of the screen for x hours a week filtering through messages to trade. 

If you are doing that, then you're even worse off than the folks who can't figure out how to use the filters. You can't figure out how to price an item for sale. 

Good luck with that. 

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i vote for a central trading hub, reading through trade to HOPE to find a good deal is a it too archaic for a game like this, at least make a player trade window visible from the market of our ship

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On 2019-07-24 at 3:47 PM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Guess they enjoy sitting in front of the screen for x hours a week filtering through messages to trade. 

That sadly is likely why a lot of proposals (including the one i linked earlier) fell over. Why this one is struggling.

Ppl don't like change. They enjoy raining on good ideas just to play devil's advocate. Prolly the same ppl who run off on their own in a 4 squad survival. Maybe it is just they are fanboyed hard to the point any system built by de (to them) is perfection incarned and no logic, wireframe mock-ups or other reasons will change their mind.

There may be work-arounds right now but new players don't know or trust 3rd party sites and given how big a role trade is in Warframe it deserves this functionality brought in-house.

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On 2019-07-26 at 12:22 AM, Avienas said:

-Snip-

Trading chat isn't perfect, but the suggestion made by the original post is basically just a slightly different variant of what is called an "auction house" (definitely a misuse of name on the forums) on dozens of previous threads and the reasons why AH is not a good idea is mentioned over and over. While some people did give vague ideas on how to solve certain problems that popup, many of these solutions are contradictory and cannot be implemented together. In addition, many of these suggestions will already fall apart when tested with a basic data base or are just effectively infeasible (physically / economically).

 

Since its basically a variant of an AH thread, I might as well throw in my AH copy-pasta reply as most of the things mentioned still applies, change "AH" to the plan the OP mentioned and its basically the same thing. 

 

===== start of copy-pasta

Unless AH is limited to rivens, it will cause more harm than help. (An AH for rivens could work, and I think it would be better if we had one)

There is often only a need to have a single copy of things, eg mods and prime parts, so we can almost be certain that demand won't ever rapidly increase regardless of the existence of AH. However, supply would certainly increase at a insanely high amount for a lot of items if AH is implemented. The main reason why many long time players aren't selling their insane stockpile of items they have in inventory, is because they value time over the small amount of platinum they could have gotten if they spend it on trading, making "offline trading"  easily accessible would change this. In addition, most items are not unique (rivens is an exception), the lethal torrent that player A is selling is no different from the one player B is selling, so for any buyers, price would effectively be the only consideration.

 A large increase in supply that can never be matched with a similar (or even likely... a tenth) of an increase in demand is going to cause the prices of most things in wf to fall significantly and this is an issue for some people, for starters

- DE is going to lose a lot of revenue. Do keep in mind that if everything is significantly cheaper, the same amount of platinum a player bought could get them a lot more things. This translates to less amount of money spent from players. This applies even to players who never buy platinum as the platinum you trade and then spent has to have come from another player's spending.

- F2P players would be harmed significantly. Remember that while most things would go cheaper, things like slots, potatoes and forma bundles don't. What this means is that F2P players would be affected the most as it would be much harder for them to actually sell their items as well as actually getting enough platinum. It would be even worse for newer players who just enter the game as they can’t even access contents that drop “rare” items as easily.

People who are asking for AH mainly is due to them thinking that it is difficult to buy and sell items. In reality, that is actually not the case unless you are trying to greed on some poor soul who doesn’t know the actual prices in the trading channel. One can already easily buy an item by simply going to warframe market and copy the names of whoever is listing the item and is online (although something should be done to make sure that those showing online are actually online and active), the only thing bad about this is that the prices there tends to be slightly higher than the trading channel. On the other hand, it is also reasonably easy to sell if you just list your items to be “-5p” of the lowest online offer.

Some people might be thinking that if warframe market didn’t crash the prices, AH won’t. This isn’t the case as AH doesn’t require the active input of the player. I rarely turn on my shop in wf market as it is a major annoyance if I want to go for any runs that is over a few minutes, that doesn’t mean I won’t utilize AH

Anyway, even if I am among the people who is going to benefit from having an AH as I have a sizable amount of plat, some stupid stockpile of things that I don’t care nor remember about owning (so I can just price war and sell them cheap and not feel as harmed). I would have to say no to this idea as it isn’t beneficial to the game overall nor is it beneficial to DE.  

===  end of copy-pasta

 

If I am a part of the DE team, I would suggest perhaps contacting the creators of warframe.market and find a way to work with them. DE gets to regulate the website, and knowledge of the existence of such website is added into the tutorial so as to let players know.

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42 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Small snip.

Glad to see someone actually talking some proper sense on detailing things out. Honestly, we just need some tidy up, does not need to be major, but at the very least something to deal with the riven mod mess and maybe a slight regulation that a person has to link a item in market chat when putting up messages to help clean up things like coupon sellers, troll text & people who cannot properly type things out. Also maybe throw in a link limit of say 3 items so people are not posting 4 to 10 items in a single post.

An easy way they could fix this would be requiring a post in market chat to have a link on it & add in new riven link ones where it would be say [Galatine Riven Mod] where it would have a link on a blank general riven of that, same could be applied  to a few other items, it would not be as impactful as a AH.

Of COURSE on the opposite spectrum side, people will likely just link a item and then type whatever else they want, completely dismantling the reason such a link regulation would be in place and likely just type in something like `WTB [Ammo Drum] nudes 1 plat.` or `WTB 500 plat [Ammo Drum]`.

Honestly this is just a massive debate issue, Either leave in a frustrating system that is suppose to artificially hamper pricing so F2P players will supposedly be able to earn platinum(yet might be too overwhelmed on trying to brave that market chat), yet the value of everything is still dropping OR put a dominant marketboard system where, likely the value of everything still drops and supposedly should make it harder for F2P players. It would likely not be as much of an issue if warframe had a sizable gathering & crafting system that would end up with resources being constant in demand with trading, to prepare certain consumable and other goods, but sadly that is basically asking for Warframe to become like Final Fantasy 14 a tad bit.

It would not be as much of an issue if platinum was not tied to the in-game marketing of trading goods since something like that on FF14 with its ingame currency, gil could go extremely wild with no repercussions to the company at all(despite the fact you will still find floods of RMT spammers using F2P accounts on that subscription game to advertise shady gil selling services), Sadly even if D.E. were to intervene, i do not believe they could get the value of goods to shoot back up, since unless it has riven on its name, every item in the game just wants to keep going into a even worst value regardless of WHAT happens, very least it would be nice if things tied AROUND market chat could get fixed up so some of the frustration into marketing could be alleviated, since its turning into a shady flea market at this point with no kind of regulation in place to keep it SOMEWHAT presentable.

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