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el_chanis

Move Energy from focus to Mastery

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14 hours ago, el_chanis said:

what? how having passive regen would force dashing? There are plenty of dashing right now already, wich btw gives a 30s bonus to energy regen (thats the OP part of it).

I was responding specifically to the part where you suggested nerfing the regen from the dash by half. Less regen just = more dashing.

14 hours ago, el_chanis said:

to both Operator AND FRAME, thats why Zenurik is fckng OP.

Dashing through enemies doesn't restore Frame energy. I'm not referring to the AoE from Zenurik, I'm talking about the inherent ability where dashing through enemies recovers energy.
"Each enemy hit with Void Dash will restore 10 Void energy to the Operator." -Warframe Wiki, Void Dash.

I'm saying that if this recovered both frame and operator energy, it would allow you to still be able to regain energy relatively easily using Operator form, but it would just take some more work without Zenurik.

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2 hours ago, IdrisQe said:

Less regen just = more dashing

it doesn't stack, so... no.

2 hours ago, IdrisQe said:

 I'm saying that if this recovered both frame and operator energy, it would allow you to still be able to regain energy relatively easily using Operator form, but it would just take some more work without Zenurik.

And that would force more dashes.......................

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I like that. Finally, after years, it would be beneficial to have a high Mr rank.. 

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On 2019-07-31 at 5:14 PM, el_chanis said:

it doesn't stack, so... no.

...Total number of dashes. I mean there would be more "dash... wait for the buff to end... dash... wait for the buff to end... dash... wait for the buff to end" looping. It would just add more waiting for the same amount of energy.

On 2019-07-31 at 5:14 PM, el_chanis said:

And that would force more dashes.......................

Yes, but it would be more interactive, and would allow non-Zenuriks to gain energy through Operator. Zenuriks could still dash-and-wait if they wanted, but the others, if they put some skill into it, could dash through groups of enemies to get energy back fast. Zenurik would still get it faster from that method due to their energy-gain-doubling node, but it would let everyone get energy. And be interactive. DE, I'm pretty sure, removed the passive regen in the first place because it wasn't "interactive" enough for the benefit it gives, same reason they nerf a lot of "afk-esque" nuke-frames. This would give everyone a way to regen without outright giving every frame passive regen (which I don't think DE would be up for), giving it requirements: War Within completion, and being able to switch between Frame and Operator and aim your dashes through large groups effectively, rather than just "stand here, energy will go up".

 

Also, must you be so passive-aggressive? Seriously. All I'm doing is trying to discuss the topic of this thread: energy regen and Zenurik being too linked, and ways it could be worked around.

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On 2019-08-02 at 11:45 PM, IdrisQe said:

This would give everyone a way to regen without outright giving every frame passive regen (which I don't think DE would be up for), giving it requirements: War Within completion, and being able to switch between Frame and Operator and aim your dashes through large groups effectively, rather than just "stand here, energy will go up".

 

the problem still remains. It takes a really long time until War Within.Thats absurd for new players. Essentially means there is barely a way for them to consistently get energy, specially when they might (and will) face leech eximus without a way to counter them effectively.  Also it's not "stand here", is "pass through here", the buff last 30 secs, thats essentially no interaction at all, i can get a STRONGER passive regen than Zenurik 1.0 in less than 1 secs (5,ctrl+space,5, thats it). 

Certainly zenurik needs a nerf, asp. ALSO, i think passive regen (in any way, shape or form), must get accesible far earlier. RIght now, it only comes from Energy siphon, wich is extremely weak or limited given what the game demands for most builds (like HP regen, wich is almost impossible to get early except for Rejuvenation).

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Oh wait, how about passive 0.3 regen till MR 10? that way it is much more accesible, and you can nerf zenurik, without giving high MR players excessive advantage.

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I absolutely agree, that at the moment the system kinda restricts you to Zenurik, however I'm absolutely against sticking any gameplay advantages on Mastery Rank! Do we high mastery rankers really need another advantage to newer players? Sure, put QoL stuff on mastery, like standing and traces caps, loadout slots (maybe some riven slots) but no gameplay boni like energy regen or speed (another thread someone posted here).

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Zenruik is fine and I really want it to stay exactly the way it is. Reason being that it is so insanely overrated and a staple measurement as to how incredibly lazy people are. This allows me in turn to pick any other school I want since I am always nearly guaranteed to have someone in my squad with Zenruik anyway.

Besides if I need energy I have so many other options that I can use anyway so why not just exploit this overrated mentality instead for my own gain?

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Rework the whole energy system. Make regen global, influenced by mods instead of efficiency. Make skill costs more flexible while you're at it.

 

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18 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Oh wait, how about passive 0.3 regen till MR 10? that way it is much more accesible, and you can nerf zenurik, without giving high MR players excessive advantage.

Finally, someone proposing to buff low-mr players over high-mr ones, my first thought though was: "will people stop getting new stuff to stay low mr?" But seeing how much cool equipment has MR requirements over 10 I think it will be fine...

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On 2019-08-06 at 1:25 PM, el_chanis said:

the problem still remains. It takes a really long time until War Within.Thats absurd for new players. Essentially means there is barely a way for them to consistently get energy, specially when they might (and will) face leech eximus without a way to counter them effectively.  Also it's not "stand here", is "pass through here", the buff last 30 secs, thats essentially no interaction at all, i can get a STRONGER passive regen than Zenurik 1.0 in less than 1 secs (5,ctrl+space,5, thats it). 

Certainly zenurik needs a nerf, asp. ALSO, i think passive regen (in any way, shape or form), must get accesible far earlier. RIght now, it only comes from Energy siphon, wich is extremely weak or limited given what the game demands for most builds (like HP regen, wich is almost impossible to get early except for Rejuvenation).

I mean... there are also energy restore consumables. Lots of people just forget those exist and think there's no other way to give yourself energy.
Yeah, they're not ideal, but they're not all that expensive to make, and could hold people over until TWW (which really, is not THAT far away. I only recall it taking me like a month to get through the star chart and complete most quests, and I was going kinda slow... A month in MMO time is not very long.)

If anything, they should introduce craftable Energy Restore consumables. Not the squad platform things they currently have, but Solo Energy Restore stims or something, which you can craft say 10 at a time with a 30 second crafting timer, with Small, Med, and Large, which restore percentages of your energy but don't affect teammates. Maybe give a debuff that makes subsequent uses too close together be less effective in order to stop people from spamming them and making Zenurik pointless.

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Energy consumables (and all consumables in general) are absolutely trivial for high MR players, and prohibitively costed for low MR players, a possible fix to this is something I've thought about for a long time. What if instead of creating consumable energy pizzas, you created them one time, higher single time cost, but they simply cooled down on use. I leave the balancing timer to DE on that, but there would no longer be either the group that hated to use consumables because it feels "wasteful", and it would also calm down the "woohoo infinite energy" crowd and put us somewhere in the middle.

I personally propose splitting them up into cooldown categories, Omni Ammo Box and all Squad Ammo Restores on one cool down, all energy on another, all health on another, all shields on another, but you could honestly put all "Restores" on a single cooldown timer, if it was relatively short, this would be a godsend IMO for low MR players, especially if it was presented and explained somewhere ingame.

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On 2019-07-19 at 1:53 AM, Datam4ss said:

Just give all WFs some passive regen and cut the Zenurik one so when you use it, the total ends up the same. Plus keep the more energy from orbs thing.

Simple. Zenurik lets you cast more but is no longer the only source.

It would also be great if restore items weren't totems, even if they gave a bit less energy on a smaller radius it would be a lot more practical to carry pizzas around.

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On 2019-07-19 at 2:09 AM, el_chanis said:

Keep in mind that the max MR is 27 right now, so the energy would be 2.7/s at best.

HAHAHA! NO!

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