More Modding Capability: Granting abilities their own mod slots

[(PSN)CrysJaL]

So in the wiki discussion forum someone made a post suggesting that warframe mods might be modded separately. Perhaps obviously this would result in some really overpowered warframes. Nova with a basic slow build and her nuke build combined would be incredibly strong. Excalibur with a high range and duration radial blind aswell as a higher power strength exalted blade would be incredibly strong.

But it got me thinking. Instead of giving all abilities the eight slots how about spltting it out, 6-2 or 4-4 with the Warframe continuing to have mods which will continue to affect all abilities aswell as themselves and then having specific slots for abilities. So for example below is how I might wind up splitting up my mods. 

If it went 4-4 I might mod like this:

Base: Corrosive Projection, P Sure Footed, 3x Umbral Mods, P Flow

1: Overextended, Fleeting Expertise, Transient Fortitude, Stretch

2: Overextended, P Continuity, Stretch, Streamline

3: Stretch, Transient Fortitude, Augur Secrets, Augur Reach

4: Fleeting Expertise, Transient Fortitude, Blind Rage r5-7, Streamline

Alternatively, if I went 6-2 it might look like:

Base: Corrosive P, Power Drift, 3x Umbral Mods, P Flow, Streamline, P Continuity

1: Overextended, Transient Fortitude

2: Overextended, Stretch

3: Transient Fortitude, Stretch

4: Fleeting Expertise, Blind Rage r5-7

Obviously either way the warframe is functionally much stronger as a result of this change. Some Warframes would see a significant improvement ot their effectiveness or utility such as Excalibur. Other warframes like Chroma or Hydroid would see limited improvements either because their abilities generally benefit from similar mod setups or because you wouldn't need or want to mod them for other abilities regardless. 

If this were implimented it would have to be an upgrade on par with Aura Forma's rarity and cost to impliment and the new ability mods would either have to share a polarity or be formaed separately again like with exalted weaponry. I'd probably imagine it would have to be limited to a 6-2 arrangement or maybe even a 7-1 split, requiring two of the upgrade to grant the 6-2 split. Yes, it'd be expensive as hell, but the potential increase in effectiveness should really reflect the clost.

Thoughts? 
It's a bit mad isn't it? Could be an interesting idea though.

[svegurok]

It would made balancing a big issue. Now you are limited when you want all your skills to work well. With this you would not be limited almost at all.

EDIT: Also if someone did not understand what OP meant. Y mod slots would be separately modifying only 1 Ability. So you would have your Config A with X mods and then another Subconfig A1-A4 only modifying 1 Ability.

[(PSN)CrysJaL]

 

2 hours ago, svegurok said:

It would made balancing a big issue. Now you are limited when you want all your skills to work well. With this you would not be limited almost at all.

EDIT: Also if someone did not understand what OP meant. Y mod slots would be separately modifying only 1 Ability. So you would have your Config A with X mods and then another Subconfig A1-A4 only modifying 1 Ability.

Yeah that's the big issue with it it would eliminate that issue of trying to balance out mods to make the best out of your warframe which is a major part of the modding gameplay mechanic.

[vomder]

Abilities used to have their own slots, and players did mostly build for the best/most efficient setups. We they changed it, we got more mod space on our frames.

[Teridax68]

In an ideal world, I’d really like this, as I’d like customisation to be more fine-grained, but the current problem is that a core part of our frame modding comes from min-maxing our stats, which in many cases involves sacrificing the usefulness of some abilities to supercharge others. This shouldn’t be the case, but simply giving each ability its own mod pool now, without any adjustments to mods, would let us max out our mods individually and bypass many of our current tradeoffs. A whole bunch of abilities don’t really care much for one, sometimes two of our ability stats, so unless our mods were to adjust to work with this (and making this a progression thing like Aura Forma I don’t think really cuts it), the OP’s solution would risk power creeping our frames even further.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Teridax68

[svegurok]

14 minutes ago, vomder said:

Abilities used to have their own slots, and players did mostly build for the best/most efficient setups. We they changed it, we got more mod space on our frames.

Obviously you did not understand OP. He did not state that we should get abilities as mods but we should still have for instance 6 mods that would modify whole frame and all abilities and 2 mod spaces for each ability and those spaces would only modify said ability.

[selig_fay]

il y a 3 minutes, svegurok a dit :

Obviously you did not understand OP. He did not state that we should get abilities as mods but we should still have for instance 6 mods that would modify whole frame and all abilities and 2 mod spaces for each ability and those spaces would only modify said ability.

This is great, but what if my standard abilities suit me and I want to spend slots on something else?

[vomder]

4 minutes ago, svegurok said:

Obviously you did not understand OP. He did not state that we should get abilities as mods but we should still have for instance 6 mods that would modify whole frame and all abilities and 2 mod spaces for each ability and those spaces would only modify said ability.

Yea, you're right. I misunderstood. In that case, it seems like this might invalidate the negatives of the Corrupted mods if they could be slotted on an ability that wouldn't care about the sacrifice you normally give up.

[Guest]

I am all for this man. I can finally min max each skill on Oberon's roster separately to get the BEST RETURNS.

[svegurok]

Honestly it would be bad because DE would have to rebalance Warframes and as

18 hours ago, zhellon said:

This is great, but what if my standard abilities suit me and I want to spend slots on something else?

What if someone wants to build supertanky Warframe that does not have any duration, strength or range mods?

[selig_fay]

Il y a 3 heures, svegurok a dit :

What if someone wants to build supertanky Warframe that does not have any duration, strength or range mods?

Suffer. Mods are a method of setting up warframes, not a method of making them super op masters of all trades.

[Gurpgork]

23 hours ago, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

Yeah that's the big issue with it it would eliminate that issue of trying to balance out mods to make the best out of your warframe which is a major part of the modding gameplay mechanic.

Having to balance out your mod setup is the point. The modding system is intentionally restrictive. We aren't supposed to be able to put everything we could ever want and need into a build. It's not meant to be pure power boosts, but a system of sacrifices and tradeoffs. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

I’m sticking my oar in on the side of ‘they already did that and decided not to do it again’.

Abilities were actual slotted mods before, where a player could choose to forma out the Ability node for a bad ability and put in another stat-boosting mod instead. I know that for a long time I ran my Zephyr with only Turbulence and Divebomb because I could load on Duration and Range for better survival and CC function.

The problem was that players built niche meta stuff that ignored two valid abilities, and it actually prevented DE from building frames like Harrow or Nidus or Octavia because they couldn’t guarantee that players would use all of the kit as it was meant to be used.

So they made the Abilities innate and gave us 8 slots total so that it wouldn’t be a nerf to certain popular builds.

DE now build frames to play around with that 8 slot limit. You would think that a frame like Hildryn with two Drains and her kit built around her Shields would do better with a build for high Duration and Efficiency, but no, she benefits most from Strength. 

They put in Augments that cost a mod slot specifically to mess with meta builds.

The 8 slots and innate Abilities is the key to how they balance modding at all.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

No

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Because don't have enough power creel already.  Sure, let's do it.

[Andaius]

yay like break and exploit each frame to have zero downsides! Lets get rid of even more choice and consequences by eliminating the interaction of a warframes abilities together.

 

 

 

no.

[Arcira]

I did a somewhat related post somewhere but I can find it anymore. It´s essentially the same idea in which abilities are handled like weapons with there own modding space and some changes to mods. For example for offensive/damage abilities cast speed would be the counter part to fire rate, more damage mods, etc (in order to bring weapon scaling in line with ability scaling).

In addition weapons would have separated mod slots for specific aspects of there parts. For example stock can only be modded with ammo related and barrel only with dps (crit, fire rate, etc) related mods.

The reason was because we have a huge amount of different mods but only use a fraction of them usually.

For people say this would reduce decision making. The general concept rely on mods doing similar things with trade offs (like corrupted or sacrificial mods). So you have to choose between mods that are actually competitive and not something like do I want more power strength or faster hacking. Although this might look like a much more complicated system I think it will be much more easy in terms of balancing because you can adjust thing separately without affecting abilities other aspects of a warframe/weapon.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Arcira

[svegurok]

@Arcira problem with your proposition is that DE would have to refund all forma put into every weapon or warframe and essentialy reset everything. That would be huge problem.

 

EDIT: Only way i see this possible is if adding of forma would not reset Rank of weapon/warframe.

Edited July 22, 2019 by svegurok