Jump to content
XxElite2015xX

Need new sustainable content.

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

So we go for cherry picking? OK. Last time ive checked planty of people still do Eidolons, there is no problem in finding party, a lot of people do onslought and you have sortie every day, nobody took out kuva survival, index and endurance runs yet last time i checked. You know whats funny about those things i mentioned? Every single one of them were answers to same topics and guess what? Poeple still got bored! Poeple will spam like there is no tomorrow every little bit of new content and then be surprised that they burned out. You just dont know what you want, once you get it you come back complaining the exactly same way. You cant accept the truth that you got bored of the game and no amount of new stuff will fix that. Make new account for a test and see how much there really is to do, the problem is you do it as it comes out and you exhaust it to fast. I will repeat you will never be satisfied.

To be fair, you would then need to question if the players repeating that content actually find it enjoyable to repeat. Players may be doing Eidolons for crafting or to get all of figures or for Arcanes. Doesn't necessarily mean they enjoy doing it but best way to find out is to ask them I guess. And many players will still be doing Onslaught to level up the focus schools.

I am one of those players that gets bored of Warframe. But I don't think for me personally, that's a bad thing and I certainly don't hold that against Warframe or DE. I'll get bored of my favorite food if I eat too much of it. I've probably gotten bored of everything and it's a good thing we live in a technological age where new media is coming out daily. Even if Warframe became the best, most enjoyable, most replayable game in existence, I will one day get bored of it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Goodwill said:

There's a bit of a divide since a portion of the players find enjoyment in challenge and overcoming a challenge which Warframe in its current state will never be able to provide. Notice how other games with much more replayability are difficult games (Monster Hunter, From Software games, other Capcom games, etc...) or PvP games where you are always being constantly challenged. Basically games where people enjoy the repetitive nature because each time they overcome the same obstacle, they feel like they have improved themselves as a player and it's that satisfaction that makes players keep on going back to those games.

Warframe lacks that satisfaction of overcoming an obstacle because either you cheese it, or there are so many unfriendly player mechanics (ability nullifiers or Operators) that you feel like the game is purposely trying to gate you from making achievements.

Completely agree with this. Those games you mention, MH especially, are my favorite type to play, can't wait for Iceborne. MH takes missteps to, ex. Ancient Leshen, but the overall experience is so much more satisfying and coherent.

Warframe isn't changing at this point, Empyrean is a chance to do things differently, but I expect if will fail if they do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Or in my case get called stupid as seen above.

However I will state that despite many aspects of Warframe being played out and "boring" for me I do still come back because of some innate fun factor that is had, but variety is the spice of life, and currently there isn't really any major variety that appeals to me beyond "Let's crack some relics...and Grineer skulls".

Report and move on

Onto the topic at hand, I can see that it can be quite so, but again, everyone is there at some point where it's "I had enough, time to play another game, until this gets content" and I've seen alot of reviews and journalists saying "How do we get people to play our game more and how do we make sure we grab players before big games come out" and well, the answer is right in front of you.

Content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, kuciol said:

They dont understand that making content takes metric #*!%ton of time. 

They do, but do the other way around understand?, you can take years to make something cool and shiny, you can delay it for years on end, but once its ready to come and you release it, you realize "oh wait, where are all the players?"

the answer is simple, no content, no play.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

To be fair, you would then need to question if the players repeating that content actually find it enjoyable to repeat. Players may be doing Eidolons for crafting or to get all of figures or for Arcanes. Doesn't necessarily mean they enjoy doing it but best way to find out is to ask them I guess. And many players will still be doing Onslaught to level up the focus schools.

Once you start questioning why they do certain content you must start questioning why they play at all. You play game for fun, once you stop having fun its time to move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Right, so you need to create enjoyable content that people will go back to after getting the rewards. How many people continue doing the Ropadopalyst mission after getting Wisp I wonder?

 

Excaly and answer is no one, unless they want to or they -have to- for some Nightwave chore or to help out a friend in need or a newbie.

 

My Point Excaly.

24 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Too much that it would be better as its own separate topic. But basically it boils down to that we are too statistically strong that no AI could combat us with their intelligence alone. Hence why I brought up that the only way DE can make Warframe more difficult is by taking away control of our character. Or artificially raising the difficulty by making enemies nigh unkillable or by making our defenses meaningless.

I know this answer doesn't really answer you question but to reiterate, it's a topic that deserves its own thread. But basically everything would need to be reworked. Damage, ammo and energy economy, enemy AI and spawn, utility and item limitations, player punishment, list could go on.

It does, I can understand what you mean, not to worry.

I can see that AI and overall presentiments can be useful, taking something away will be a cool idea and I hope the "Void Storms" that was shown in rail-jack brings such to life, cuz I can give you a quick slap idea:

Void Storm: If it hits, you lose your powers, relay on your Weapons. 

EMP Field: No weapons work, only your melee. 

Sit-rep Mission: No Weapons, No Powers, go in and go out, without being detected or face death.

 

XCOM 2's Sit-reps is a idea that DE can bring to the table.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

They do, but do the other way around understand?, you can take years to make something cool and shiny, you can delay it for years on end, but once its ready to come and you release it, you realize "oh wait, where are all the players?"

the answer is simple, no content, no play.

Stop repeating this like a mantra because its just a lie. Game has enough content to last you a year the problem is you exhausted it as it was released. Its physically impossible to make content faster then you will consume it. Maxing out PoE alone will take "normal" player 2-3 months but yea sure, game has no content.

  • Like 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

There's a bit of a divide since a portion of the players find enjoyment in challenge and overcoming a challenge which Warframe in its current state will never be able to provide. Notice how other games with much more replayability are difficult games (Monster Hunter, From Software games, other Capcom games, etc...) or PvP games where you are always being constantly challenged. Basically games where people enjoy the repetitive nature because each time they overcome the same obstacle, they feel like they have improved themselves as a player and it's that satisfaction that makes players keep on going back to those games.

Warframe lacks that satisfaction of overcoming an obstacle because either you cheese it, or there are so many unfriendly player mechanics (ability nullifiers or Operators) that you feel like the game is purposely trying to gate you from making achievements.

That's the problem. Warframe focus a lot on making players feel powerful. And DE did a great job. This attracts a lot of players. But it also means its hard to create challenging content in the game.

Edited by yles9056
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Stop repeating this like a mantra because its just a lie. Game has enough content to last you a year the problem is you exhausted it as it was released. Its physically impossible to make content faster then you will consume it. Maxing out PoE alone will take "normal" player 2-3 months but yea sure, game has no content.

Not really, as said by a few people

Games live and die by its community, you either have long lasting content or you see players drift away onto another game, for new players or normal players, sure, if you like taking your sweet time doing things, but once you complete it, then what?, you move onto another game.

Look, I rather not let this topic derail any more then it already has, given the attitude that is slowly drawing from the topic, so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Empyrean is a chance to do things differently, but I expect if will fail if they do.

Hum, in what way I wonder?

Steve brought up in a review (somewhere, I think the PS4 one) that Railjack/Empyrean was suppose to the out years before, like what Warframe should of been, but not had the tech or something (I can't recall) 

What way do you think Railjack will change how we play Warframe?, besides the hopes and dreams that Steve bring up such as "Fly to your missions and pick from there" rather then click and point, then return and repeat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Not really, as said by a few people

Games live and die by its community, you either have long lasting content or you see players drift away onto another game, for new players or normal players, sure, if you like taking your sweet time doing things, but once you complete it, then what?, you move onto another game.

Look, I rather not let this topic derail any more then it already has, given the attitude that is slowly drawing from the topic, so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

Judging by steam charts they are doing great job. To answer your question : once you finish the game you move on to another game and maybe come back later, maybe not. There isnt a single game in existance that would satisfy your needs. Thats the harsh reality. Fact is the game has a lot of content, its the main problem for new players, its overwhelmingly complex. With your attitude towards railjack you are setting yourself up for disappointment. The content no matter how complex will last less then Fortuna, mark my words. If you got already bored of PoE, Fortuna and ESO then railjack has no chance. You cant bend reality no matter how hard you try and no amount of wishfull thinking and cries about "sustainable content" (that nobody specified what it should be or even given example, it will also fail to meet your expectations btw) will change that.

Edited by kuciol
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Hum, in what way I wonder?

Steve brought up in a review (somewhere, I think the PS4 one) that Railjack/Empyrean was suppose to the out years before, like what Warframe should of been, but not had the tech or something (I can't recall) 

What way do you think Railjack will change how we play Warframe?, besides the hopes and dreams that Steve bring up such as "Fly to your missions and pick from there" rather then click and point, then return and repeat. 

Not sure if this piece of information is still applicable to Railjack, but I do remember in an early reveal is that the team said Railjack would be a good place to test a new way to do damage values or something on those lines. If someone can confirm or expand on that information that would be much appreciated because I may simply be mis-remembering details.

Whether Railjack will succeed or fail I think is somewhat irrelevant. I think what is most important is will DE prioritize fixing and expanding that content? They've said that they wanted to make Railjack a core element of Warframe going forward which I think is a positive start compared to the one and done content we've received for the past few years.

But disregarding that, I'm still excited to have my own spaceship I can actually fly. We may as well be calling ourselves space pirates now. We went from space ninjas, to space wizards, to space pirates. What's next? They gonna add sim management elements and we are gonna be space entrepreneurs?

Edited by Goodwill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Judging by steam charts they are doing great job.

Not everyone uses steam, this is a really poor example.

But heck, if I chuold bend reality to my will, then I whuold be rich and powerful (and also maybe dead, cuz I'll likely do something stupid XD), perhaps I am but meny of the players I hang with have either quit warframe due to lack of content or are waiting for Railjack and if I am honest, that is what I am doing too.

I rather wait for something new and fresh, to keep me afloat to play the game, but again, move and on play another until it does, is the best choice really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Not everyone uses steam, this is a really poor example.

I dont use it myself but it pretty good representation of how game is doing. Even if its lets say only 50% of players on steam then its very substantial sample size. I jump between Path of Exile and Warframe (just came back after a year) and seeing how you guys S#&$ on the amount of content here looks really stupid to me because i know how many things i need to do to catch up. You just did everything as it was released and there is no way in hell they can release content in such a pace that you wont get bored. Sustainable content is a myth. We got everything we asked for and even more and its still not sustainable enough. You guys cant comprehend that for some reason.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, kuciol said:

We got everything we asked for

If that was the case, we whuold have rail-jack by now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

If that was the case, we whuold have rail-jack by now

That just proves my point perfectly. You see yourself how long it takes to make. Meanwhile we got : Kuva survival, Arbitrations, ESO, Fortuna. Every single thing i just mentioned was implemented to adress topics like this and its still not enough and railjack will also not be enough because you will spam it until you get sick of it and we will end up in the same situation as we have now. Railjack will be realesed and then we will have to wait next 20 months for new expansion. Its impossible to meet your expectations because they are overblown out of proportions.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Kuva survival, Arbitrations, ESO, Fortuna. 

Kuva is rarely useful, unless you want to go into the Rivens.

Arbitrations are a poors man of makeing hard content and got nerfed with being able to rev your team (and they are very very tedious)

ESO, once again, people done for XP farming only and already have Khora and the cosmetic items

Fortuna is the a excat copy of Cetus, just Corpus rather then grinner, same grind, everyone has what they need from it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

Kuva is rarely useful, unless you want to go into the Rivens.

Arbitrations are a poors man of makeing hard content and got nerfed with being able to rev your team (and they are very very tedious)

ESO, once again, people done for XP farming only and already have Khora and the cosmetic items

Fortuna is the a excat copy of Cetus, just Corpus rather then grinner, same grind, everyone has what they need from it.

Apply this to anything that they release in the present and future and you have your explanation why the mythical "end-game" and "sustainable content" is really just padding out something to take a stupidly long amount of time. If the rewards aren't good enough, it falls into A. If the game mode isn't scaled to the broken meta, it falls into B. If the rewards aren't padded out to take 5 months to grind, it falls into C. If it's not different enough from already existing content, it falls into D.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Kuva is rarely useful, unless you want to go into the Rivens.

Arbitrations are a poors man of makeing hard content and got nerfed with being able to rev your team (and they are very very tedious)

ESO, once again, people done for XP farming only and already have Khora and the cosmetic items

Fortuna is the a excat copy of Cetus, just Corpus rather then grinner, same grind, everyone has what they need from it.

You are just looking for excuses at this point. You could say the same thing about every part of the game. Thats just the nature of the game. Why pople do defense? To exp stuff and get relic. Why poeple play Spy? To get ivara and mods. We could go like this about everything. If you didnt notice you are just proving my point of you just simply being bored of the game and no new content will change that for long. It may last you a week, maybe a month but the end will be the same.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While DE does release content pretty slowly, even if they released content more regularly like other developers do, it still wouldn't be enough to satisfy people. Content takes several months, to 1 year, sometimes more, but all it takes is a couple days to a month (depending on playtime) for people to finish the content.

Maybe in the future when AI can be used to develop games alongside human developers will content be released at a quick enough pace, but then comes the issue of being able to constantly come up with enough ideas to keep up with the quicker pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Goodwill said:

There's a bit of a divide since a portion of the players find enjoyment in challenge and overcoming a challenge which Warframe in its current state will never be able to provide. Notice how other games with much more replayability are difficult games (Monster Hunter, From Software games, other Capcom games, etc...) or PvP games where you are always being constantly challenged. Basically games where people enjoy the repetitive nature because each time they overcome the same obstacle, they feel like they have improved themselves as a player and it's that satisfaction that makes players keep on going back to those games.

Warframe lacks that satisfaction of overcoming an obstacle because either you cheese it, or there are so many unfriendly player mechanics (ability nullifiers or Operators) that you feel like the game is purposely trying to gate you from making achievements.

Ummm...you lost me at Monster Hunter.  

Hard does not equal fun, engaging, worthwhile gameplay.

Warframe for me is nearly infinitely “replayable” in the daily because of the fast-paced “Super-Ninja” combat.

Everything scales, so in one sense you make your own endgame.

Making a “specific”, incredibly hard endgame is the realm of the elitist few and is business model suicide. It would be quickly conquered by the few who actually find it important/are capable, and alienate the rest of the player base.

And as soon as meta players conquer it, they complain.  It’s a thankless, fruitless thing to chase.

Honestly, DE is already pushing this divide a bit, which is why the new player experience became a necessity.

Basic combat, Warframe’s best feature, used to be the gateway to all content.

DE game design trends have invalidated it for large parts of the game’s loot as you go deeper.

So, imho, the attempts to make it more “endgame” have actually harmed the overall product and segregated active casual and new players who love the speed and power fantasy aspect that drew them to WF on the first place.

And “Vets” (loosely used term) reward the new steps and time needed by calling it cheese...or saying Monster Hunter has good endgame content...maybe Dark Souls, But Monster Hunter??

Edit:  Apologies If you felt I was attacking you, personally.  In re-reading your post, we actually say many of the same things.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Apply this to anything that they release in the present and future and you have your explanation why the mythical "end-game" and "sustainable content" is really just padding out something to take a stupidly long amount of time. If the rewards aren't good enough, it falls into A. If the game mode isn't scaled to the broken meta, it falls into B. If the rewards aren't padded out to take 5 months to grind, it falls into C. If it's not different enough from already existing content, it falls into D.

Yep. And there is the very real danger that what made Warframe great in the beginning becomes lost.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Basic combat, Warframe’s best feature, used to be the gateway to all content.

DE game design trends have invalidated it for large parts of the game’s loot as you go deeper.

So, imho, the attempts to make it more “endgame” have actually harmed the overall product and segregated active casual and new players who love the speed and power fantasy aspect that drew them to WF on the first place.

That basic combat you enjoyed died to power creep. The design trends you disapprove of are an effort to counter it. None of it makes for a satisfying experience once you get past being new, that's why those other games were mentioned.

Part of the reason I enjoy playing public on occasion is seeing folks struggling and actually having fun. Like the player I revived 7 times on the last Proxy Rebellion using my invulnerable, aoe healing operator that tethers nearby enemies in place.

  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's just bring back the old sustainable content. Remember raids? Or when endurance was endgame for like 2+ years without ever slipping? (not that i want to image the state of the later after all this power creep)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...