Rhino Rework

[(PSN)R3ZZNN0V]

Okay, we all know our boi Rhino isnt what he used to be. So the other day while discussing this matter w some frens out in the plains we came up w some sort of rework focusing on the Iron Skin ability, we havent melted our brains over this so if there's anything wrong dont kill me, its just a random idea for a rework. 

Okay so it goes like this: the rework will focus entirely on Rhino's Iron Skin, deleting or drastically changing abilities. 

First off we have the OG Iron Skin mapped to 1, this ability will be the fundamental pilar of everything Rhino and it'll work just as it does now or better if DE buffs it, but w the change that the total amount of IS resistance to damage will be shown w a different icon on screen, along w the 2nd ability damage resistances

Second, Rhino'll be able to cast a buff to Iron Skin that'll work similar to adaptation in which the IS will reduce damage of the type it is recieving up to 50% or smth, this damage will improve IS endurance and it will not deactivate in 3 seconds like when u're recieving too much damage vs lvl 100+ enemies and it'll contribute to making Rhino an endgame tank as he is supposed to be.

Third Rhino will be able to cast some sort of damage redirection to enemies while on IS, or some some sort of damage absorption for his fourth ability

Okay so lastly the fourth ability will deactivate IS but it'll cause an initial explotion of iron spikes in a radius and then Rhino will recieve a damage and armor buff scaling off the damage he recieved while in IS and he'll periodically release a charge of iron spikes from his body, this will scale w poder duration and range obviously so if u want to use Rhino just for the IS u can mod for it n such. 

So what do u guys think? l feel like Rhino is way 2 basic for the game nowadays and he doesnt recieve the love he should ask our fist ever tank, nor does he fulfill his porpuse as a tank as he should. Thx for takin the time to read this, any idea for improving the concept is welcomed 😉

Edited July 19, 2019 by (PS4)R3ZZNN0V

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Why is everyone thinking rhino is weak/out of date?!?! 

 

Let me get this straight, you want rhinos iron skin to be his first ability, and his other 3 to just change what iron skin does? Why? He’s already one of the few jack of all trades frames left that can compete with newer frames!

 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Okay, we all know our boi Rhino isnt what he used to be. 

Actually yes, he still is. 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Okay so it goes like this: the rework will focus entirely on Rhino's Iron Skin, deleting or drastically changing abilities. 

...

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

First off we have the OG Iron Skin mapped to 1,

As a side note, is there any frame that has its defensive ability on the first ability? Most i can think of are the frame’s second or third ability 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

this ability will be the fundamental pilar of everything Rhino and it'll work just as it does now or better

Or worse

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Second, Rhino'll be able to cast a buff to Iron Skin that'll work similar to adaptation in which the IS will reduce damage of the type it is recieving up to 50% or smth, this damage will improve IS endurance and it will not deactivate in 3 seconds like when u're recieving too much damage vs lvl 100+ enemies and it'll contribute to making Rhino an endgame tank as he is supposed to be.

The assumption here is that rhino cannot last against level 100 enemies. That assumption is wrong. I was just on another thread trying to convince someone how rhino can tank better then chroma, only to have someone show a video of rhino being able to get 150k+ ironskin hp, proving the point. 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Third Rhino will be able to cast some sort of damage redirection to enemies while on IS, or some some sort of damage absorption for his fourth ability

Damage redirection is nigh on useless (with a few exceptions) because unless you have a massive damage buff to that redirected damage, its useless. 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Okay so lastly the fourth ability will deactivate IS but it'll cause an initial explotion of iron spikes in a radius and then Rhino will recieve a damage and armor buff scaling off the damage he recieved while in IS and he'll periodically release a charge of iron spikes from his body, this will scale w poder duration and range obviously so if u want to use Rhino just for the IS u can mod for it n such.

So you want rhino to lose his iron skin to deal damage around him? He can already do that (iron shrapnel) 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

So what do u guys think?

No

54 minutes ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

l feel like Rhino is way 2 basic for the game nowadays

Being basic has never been a bad thing. Low skill floor, high skill ceiling concept. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

nor does he fulfill his porpuse as a tank as he should

Id like if he had a taunt of time type, maybe if he roars while ironskin up, but thats about it. Otherwise he is still one of the best frames

1 hour ago, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Thx for takin the time to read this, any idea for improving the concept is welcomed 

The best improvement would be to not do any of this 😕 

[Xzorn]

I don't think there's anything wrong with simple. There is elegance in simplicity and "basic" hardly means easy.

I tend to prefer the old frames because their ability functions are straight forward but their interactions and layers are not. Newer frames have gotten very silly in their overlapping functions that aren't really needed but forced onto the player in order to achieve full potency of a frame's kit. It's less the player making correct choices and more doing redundant operations in order to make something work well.

I have to assume by "Rhino isn't what he used to be" that you're unaware he can easily break 200k Iron Skin values without gimmicks? He's the 3rd more durable frame in the game with a buff pretty much every other frame in the game can enjoy regardless of their builds and still has a fairly decent AoE CC. The only real gripe I have with my long time friend Rhino is the need to use Iron Shrapnel when re-applying Iron Skin should be a built in function just like Nova and her 1st ability.

[Autongnosis]

Rhino is still as healthy as ever, even more so since it got several meta buffs via the introduction of mods like health conversion, mecha whateverthenameis, and arcanes. 

He is also the single most broken buffer for DoT effects, which are all the rage nowadays be it viral slash melees or hunter munition builds. 

 

Tbh there are some touchups he could use (I'd always have loved rhino charge to be a slow starting and ponderous run that accelerates rapidly to breakneck speed while retaining full control) and his iron shrapnel augment never should've been an augment at all, he's still top of the ladder and a ver competent frame that grows with your account from the moment you get him. 

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

As a side note, is there any frame that has its defensive ability on the first ability? Most i can think of are the frame’s second or third ability 

And that is an issue because...? Hildryn is the only Warframe with an exalted first ability

[nooneyouknow13]

Honestly, all of those ideas are kind of awful. A "Rhino Rework", should consist solely of buffing his base energy, making Iron Skin recastable without Shrapnel (keep the damage aspect on the augment), and maaaaaaaybe rolling Ironclad Charge into baseline. I wouldn't say no to an ending invuln on Iron Skin either, but it's not really needed.

[NinjaZeku]

13 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

As a side note, is there any frame that has its defensive ability on the first ability?

Ones that come to mind would be Nova, Wisp, Garuda and Baruuk, Mirage / Limbo / Ivara might also count I guess.

But yeah, no thanks on these "improvements" to Rhino,
he's a solid Frame that works well and is useful to the Squad in a bunch of missions.

If that's not enough for you, there's loads of other Frames to try, don't ruin this one plskthx.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Uh, Rhino is still one of the best frames in the game.  At this point you have a better chance getting the Winter Olympics booked in hell before he gets a rework.

[BEKONE]

Why people want to break things that ain't broken so much?

PS. Does anyone remember Ember?

Edited July 21, 2019 by BEKONE
REMEMBER EMBER!

[DrakeWurrum]

On 2019-07-19 at 3:26 PM, (PS4)R3ZZNN0V said:

Okay, we all know our boi Rhino isnt what he used to be.

....wot.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

people who want a rework for rhino don't really know how or why Rhino works 

he's the only warframe in the game who's completely and perfectly crafted 

[Veridian]

So reduce the crutch's low skill floor even further?

How about no. Last thing I need are more Rhinos in missions where they don't belong. 

[Sasquatchias]

The only rework Rhino needs is some kind of toggle to let players disable the visual effects of Iron Skin.

[Xepthrichros]

No one:

Literally no one:

 

TC: Rhino Rework

 

 

Also, your rework doesn't sound like Rhino warframe. It sounds like Iron Skin Warframe. Cos everything is just Iron Skin+

 

Current Rhino is superior. Stomp gives me some CC and area nuking. Roar makes Rhino viable option in ESO to buff the other nukers in the team. Iron Skin is great as it currently is. And his first skill with Ironclad Charge augment will boost Iron Skin. So. I take my current Rhino in game over yours any day. Your idea sounds like a downgrade.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[BeastKingRizzo]

Awful idea...sorry

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

No. As is 3 of his 4 augments are centered around his iron skin.

His abilities are great, they just need to do damage. His one should be a goring landslide and increase with combo multiplier as well as do dmg based in equipped weapon. His 2 is great. His 3 is great, though it should draw aggro or  cause fear. His 4 should do damage that scales and his armor needs a significant buff, as well as his health.

[MirageKnight]

May as well throw in my 2p. Rhino's pretty solid, but he could benefit from some tweaks.

Health: 200
Shields: 100
Armor: 350

Charge: Rhino sprints forward, gradually gaining speed while losing turning ability, ragdolling and damaging all enemies struck for 150 / 250 / 350 / 450 damage and staggering nearby enemies with impact shockwaves. In addition, Rhino gains 50 HP from each gored enemy, replenishing any health lost (borrowed this from lore). Distance traveled affected by Range, stagger duration affected by Duration and damage affected by Strength.

Roar: Now his second ability. Draws aggro / taunts enemies in addition to buffing nearby allies, with the aggro radius being at least equal to the buff radius. Buffs to allies remain the same.

Iron Skin: Now his third ability. No other changes.

Stomp: Generates a massive shockwave with a radius of 15 / 18 / 22 / 25 meters that ragdolls enemies 1-2 meters away from Rhino for 100 / 300 / 500 / 800 Blast damage and strips away 20% / 40% / 60% / 80% of an enemy's Armor and / or Shields. Surviving enemies knocked down by the shockwave require 3 / 4 / 5 / 8 seconds to recover and get back on their feet.

Passive: Massive Impact - when dropping from a height, enemies within a 6m area are knocked down for 50 Impact damage, with AoE and Damage affected by distance dropped and current armour value.

Edited July 23, 2019 by MirageKnight

[Borg1611]

My main changes to Rhino would simply be to allow him to re-cast his roar while active. It makes no sense that he can't already do that. It's a very outdated and pointless restriction.

I'd also make Iron Shrapnel built in and just remove the augment since I think he should be able to remove and re-cast his Iron Skin by default.

Charge is the only ability I think maybe could use bigger changes. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

No. As is 3 of his 4 augments are centered around his iron skin.

His abilities are great, they just need to do damage. His one should be a goring landslide and increase with combo multiplier

It has its own multiplier already, and already gets damage buffs depending on whether or not you have ironskin active

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

as well as do dmg based in equipped weapon. His 2 is great. His 3 is great, though it should draw aggro or  cause fear.

An AoE taunt would be nice

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

His 4 should do damage that scales and his armor needs a significant buff, as well as his health.

His 4 isnt about damage, its about CC, of which it is some of the best. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

It has its own multiplier already, and already gets damage buffs depending on whether or not you have ironskin active

An AoE taunt would be nice

His 4 isnt about damage, its about CC, of which it is some of the best. 

Cc is crap by itself. Vauban... Cc gawd... Noone cares. Needs dmg output. His 4 needs to do damage. If u want pure cc, then u can have the option to negative strength, but this ability needs dmg. His 1 does not wrk like landslide. It doesn't use melee weapon mods and it works more like a bulldozer, where it needs to wrk more like a steamroller.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

Only thing Rhino needs is a moderate buff to his base armor value. That in itself would push him into the higher levels.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Only thing Rhino needs is a moderate buff to his base armor value. That in itself would push him into the higher levels.

I think more than moderate. I think his armor should be second only to valkyr.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Cc is crap by itself. Vauban... Cc gawd... Noone cares. Needs dmg output. His 4 needs to do damage. If u want pure cc, then u can have the option to negative strength, but this ability needs dmg. His 1 does not wrk like landslide. It doesn't use melee weapon mods and it works more like a bulldozer, where it needs to wrk more like a steamroller.

Cc is crap by itself. Sadly vauban is in such a state because thats all his kit allows, cc. 

Rhino has cc, one of the best tanking abilities in the game, and a teamwide support buff that affects weapons and abilities. Oh, and his cc can reach upwards of 60 meters, which is one of the highest ranges possible for any AoE cc ability in the game. 

Adding more damage does nothing but slightly push the edge of “using 4 for cc only” back a few levels. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Cc is crap by itself. Sadly vauban is in such a state because thats all his kit allows, cc. 

Rhino has cc, one of the best tanking abilities in the game, and a teamwide support buff that affects weapons and abilities. Oh, and his cc can reach upwards of 60 meters, which is one of the highest ranges possible for any AoE cc ability in the game. 

Adding more damage does nothing but slightly push the edge of “using 4 for cc only” back a few levels. 

For those of us that dont build for massive range... Would be nice to kill things in base range.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I think his armor should be second only to valkyr.

I think they should swap their Armor values.

Valkyr doesn't look even remotely bulky / buff enough to warrant the armor value she currently has (yeah I know, suspension of disbelief and all). Visually, she strikes me as being dangerously quick and agile: Hard to hit and fast hitting...but definitely not something that can take much punishment. 

Rhino though? He looks like he's built to be able to wade into a heavy fire-fight and soak almost anything thrown at him.

Edited July 23, 2019 by MirageKnight