Lore/Theory Discussion - NW2: Arlo, infested Ancient Healers and a stealthier strain of infestation

[pqNapkin]

I was looking around the forums for people discussing this whole Arlo thing in NW2, maybe Ancients and Orokin Lorists, but couldn't find anything connecting them. I did find theories on Arlo and his gift being some new form of infestation strain, though. Not to mention all the religious symbolism.

I mean, the reason I got so curious about it and started trying to find a connection between these things is that the first thing I noticed when I saw the glyph (the Emissary Emblem, WF wiki: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Emissary_Emblem) we get as a reward from this event, is that it has Arlo's hand drawn with a circular mark right in the middle of the palm. This is not how it looks like in his 3D/game model though, (he wears gloves there), but it instantly made me think of the Lora Device the Orokin Lorists (healers) had embedded in their palms, as the text says in the Synthesis/Codex entry on how Remballa (a Lorist) became an infested monster (it's in the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis Imprint). We were never told how these Lora Nodes or the Lora Device looked like, but they were visible enough to bother the Orokin with their appearance.

Sure, that peculiar circle marking in his hand could just be symbolism (the glyph does look like your average religious symbol). Not to mention the synthesis entry saying that the Lorists had 'metallic fascia' growing all over their bodies (maybe sort of like the "somatic scars" the Tenno have) and Arlo's appearance seems very normal for a Solaris kid. Even the exposed skin he has (arms and face) seems very normal too.

I know people have theorized a lot on ancient healers and all, some forum user even theorized about the strange whitish 'skull shape' on both sides of their necks, or their weird "backpacks", among other things.
Anyways I think it's just too fishy that this Arlo kid (his name could be an anagram for Lora too!) has healing powers, was found right in the middle of the infestation, doesn't talk... I don't know, makes me think if he's not some sort of new infested form based on Ancient Healers... I don't know... And of course, the Nightwave itself doesn't help when Nora talks about Arlo and Kenga in a way that makes it obvious that there's something suspicious going on. And what is it with those weird canisters Arlo's followers hold?

Think about it, maybe... who knows... the infestation revived Arlo's corpse to slowly and stealthily spread infestation...? Sort of healing people and infesting them with spores that incubate for a long time before turning them into infested, kinda like the mind control spores of that insidious fungus that controls ants (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis). This supposed new strain of infestation could just alter people's behavior initially before consuming them entirely. Kinda like the ants in that article, which die sometime after being infected (4 to 10 days), except it could take longer with people (maybe incubating over weeks, months, or more, maybe even years). Combine that with religious zealotry and Nora's lines on how ideas spread fast, it's not difficult to imagine that this new strain could have some form of psychological/religious effect in the minds of it's victims... I mean, we know the infestation is not just some dumb parasite or disease, what if this plan was its next attempt at evolving and conquering the origin system? 

Imagine if the infestation got smarter and figured out that instead of aggressively attacking everyone and using "combat forms" to acquire more people/biomass to join it, that it could just spread like a regular "human disease", slowly contaminating everyone, and combining that infection method with the spreading of an idea that attracts people. It could infest a great number of people without having to fight or even bother going after them, since they'd be coming willingly after the main contamination vector (Arlo) to receive his 'gift' (healing) and join the cult. Kenga could have been picked just as a means to spread the idea/word, which in turn helps spread the disease itself!

Or maybe it's just Kenga using Arlo's power for personal gain and I'm just overthinking the plot and this whole thing hahahah

What are your thoughts on this? Any ideas? Or maybe we should just wait for the conclusion of this NW and see how it pans out?

[Scionis]

I just came to the forum to post a similar conclusion. This kid is definitely spreading the infested infection through "healing."

[Giantconch]

I posted this theory in a private-ish discord last night, glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Arlo is a trojan horse virus spreader.

 

Personal theory is that the infestation has just figured out that, as you said, direct infection just results in mass purging and has gotten it nowhere. At the end of NW, when the tac alert starts, we're going to see Arlos true colors, and there will be some strange summon method that requires a person to go down and not get revived in order to summon the assassin/boss, who will erupt from the dead frame (player would still be able to revive after to join the fight, but would need to die to summon the boss)

 

I always found it odd that since NWS2 has started, when someone goes down, we can get a healer, who acts a lot like our ancient healer specters, helping us in the mission. Suspicious AF to me.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Scionis said:

I just came to the forum to post a similar conclusion. This kid is definitely spreading the infested infection through "healing."

This.  The only additional speculation to add:

1.  This new “hidden” infestation might have a symbiotic relationship with it’s hosts.  Why?

It makes it a deadlier strain and more effective.

Friendly carriers/hosts/vectors spread it faster as it “heals” and allow hosts to maintain a higher level of intelligence (at least until the voluntary choice or involuntary reaction to transform into a monster vs a threat presents itself).

Basically, Arlo’s followers became Strain-enhanced Super-humans, maintaining free will yet connected to the hive mind...versions of NIDUS ifyou want to look at it from that angle.

Why is this “free will” aspect important?  Glad you asked...

2.   A new Infested FACTION that ties into the other traditional factions along with an infested EMPYREAN SHIP AND CREW would require free will instead of infested monsters with the single biological directive to kill, spread, and consume.

3.  Finally...don’t be surprised if Arlo-Lora’s chest cavity contains his Symbiote.

Edited July 20, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Scionis]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

2.   A new Infested FACTION that ties into the other traditional factions along with an infested EMPYREAN SHIP AND CREW would require free will instead of infested monsters with the single biological directive to kill, spread, and consume.

I'm not following what free will would have to do with it.  I think the likening to the buggers on the piggy planet in Ender's game series makes sense. He was still led around by a bugger soldier who wasn't the queen. Was that soldier thinking of his own free will maybe, but on orders by the queen. Nonetheless from Ender's perspective, and yours if you were in an alien city, would you really know if the actor in front of you has free will, or that the "individuals" where just set up that way much like a the pieces on a chess board.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Scionis said:

I'm not following what free will would have to do with it.  I think the likening to the buggers on the piggy planet in Ender's game series makes sense. He was still led around by a bugger soldier who wasn't the queen. Was that soldier thinking of his own free will maybe, but on orders by the queen. Nonetheless from Ender's perspective, and yours if you were in an alien city, would you really know if the actor in front of you has free will, or that the "individuals" where just set up that way much like a the pieces on a chess board.

You: “Engineer, more power to engines.”

Infested Engineer: “Rawr”!  *Eats you*

Ender’s game followed the rules of insects.

The classic infested in Warframe follow the rules of a poor man’s John Carpenter’s “The Thing”...more like a Sentient Cancer (pathogen) but less able to climb the evolutionary chain to advanced thought through exact mimicry as the Thing’s cells copy their host...more in common with Zombies from World War Z...basic brain function.

I also mentioned the possibility of a free will “override” switch in the presence of a threat.

I think your suggestion, out of three possibilities, is the least likely.

1.  The infestation is growing undetected, and the hosts are in for a rude awakening, actually seeing Arlo as this miracle kid using Arlo’s healing gift to spread the infestation but unaware.

2.  They know the infestation healed them, can feel it inside them, communicating as a Symbiote, and they have converted to the infested house of Arlo.

3. (Yours):  The “healed” are Dead/Zombified/completely imprisoned in their own bodies and the infestation is in complete control and perfectly mimicking free will and human behavior and form.

Edited July 20, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[nslay]

Can Arlo heal the infested back to their original uninfected forms?

[Scionis]

 

21 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

1.  The infestation is growing undetected, and the hosts are in for a rude awakening, actually seeing Arlo as this miracle kid using Arlo’s healing gift to spread the infestation but unaware.

I totally think this is the case right now, but this is how infested work in general, so these "healed" are going from 1 to 3.

21 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

3. (Yours):  The “healed” are Dead/Zombified/completely imprisoned in their own bodies and the infestation is in complete control and perfectly mimicking free will and human behavior and form.

 

[Lazframe]

These are some pretty interesting point :0

[yles9056]

Any religion related to infection/virus in video games look suspicious to me, especially those inspired by Cthulu.

[Loza03]

On 2019-07-20 at 5:34 PM, RKeno said:

Or maybe it's just Kenga using Arlo's power for personal gain and I'm just overthinking the plot and this whole thing hahahah

Maybe a bit of both?

 

I mean, Kenga had the infestation before Arlo cured him. Maybe his Grey-Vein realised the situation and went dormant to fool Arlo into aborting his healing early. It then took over Kenga without fully infecting him (like it did with rotten Salad) and has started infiltrating all of Arlo's Devoted and their more conventional healing items, leaving Arlo to continue to draw in victims and the devoted to spread out to anyone in need of healing, infecting people all over the place. Even if only a handful of people got infected on the way out, that could spread fast. From what we can determine, Infestation only actively transforms a person that's died whilst infected - for example the Kavor - so they could have dozens or hundreds of incubators before long, spread to unsuspecting areas. Even if the newly infected realising and returning to Arlo for a cure, they can get re-infected on the way out or intentionally overlooked. As long as most who visits Arlo don't get infested, it'll get overlooked - he is based on Eris, so that would give an excuse. With how dangerous the Warframe universe is, those infected will eventually get killed, and boom - outbreak.

[pqNapkin]

On 2019-07-20 at 5:40 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This.  The only additional speculation to add:

1.  This new “hidden” infestation might have a symbiotic relationship with it’s hosts.  Why?

It makes it a deadlier strain and more effective.

Friendly carriers/hosts/vectors spread it faster as it “heals” and allow hosts to maintain a higher level of intelligence (at least until the voluntary choice or involuntary reaction to transform into a monster vs a threat presents itself).

Basically, Arlo’s followers became Strain-enhanced Super-humans, maintaining free will yet connected to the hive mind...versions of NIDUS ifyou want to look at it from that angle.

Why is this “free will” aspect important?  Glad you asked...

2.   A new Infested FACTION that ties into the other traditional factions along with an infested EMPYREAN SHIP AND CREW would require free will instead of infested monsters with the single biological directive to kill, spread, and consume.

3.  Finally...don’t be surprised if Arlo-Lora’s chest cavity contains his Symbiote.

This makes a lot of sense. And that what you said afterwards about the "infested house of Arlo", would tie in perfectly as a base for further lore expansion into a possible "intelligent" strain of infested as a faction for Empyrean and onwards. I totally agree.
It made me think of all the other occurrences we had of "intelligent infested" like infested Alad V and his speech on uniting all factions under the infestation or Cephalon Jordas before he goes nuts, except maybe this time it is even more insidious and subversive, as it presents itself as friendly and all, before inevitably consuming its victims.

[pqNapkin]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Maybe a bit of both?

 

I mean, Kenga had the infestation before Arlo cured him. Maybe his Grey-Vein realised the situation and went dormant to fool Arlo into aborting his healing early. It then took over Kenga without fully infecting him (like it did with rotten Salad) and has started infiltrating all of Arlo's Devoted and their more conventional healing items, leaving Arlo to continue to draw in victims and the devoted to spread out to anyone in need of healing, infecting people all over the place. Even if only a handful of people got infected on the way out, that could spread fast. From what we can determine, Infestation only actively transforms a person that's died whilst infected - for example the Kavor - so they could have dozens or hundreds of incubators before long, spread to unsuspecting areas. Even if the newly infected realising and returning to Arlo for a cure, they can get re-infected on the way out or intentionally overlooked. As long as most who visits Arlo don't get infested, it'll get overlooked - he is based on Eris, so that would give an excuse. With how dangerous the Warframe universe is, those infected will eventually get killed, and boom - outbreak.

This makes a lot of sense too. But I think it's a bit shaky to rely on the assumption that infestation only transforms the dead, unless this was explained somewhere in the lore and I missed it (I'm not saying I'm very knowledgeable or anything). Regardless, your take on it has a much better explanation for Kenga's behavior. What I still don't get is Arlo himself, what the heck is that kid's deal. He's clearly "special" without taking his healing into consideration. How does someone that defenseless survive in the middle of the infestation like that? Sure, the fact that he's mute could just be a red herring (he could just be a regular kid with a voice disability), but he also heals people. Also, afaik Myconians don't have a successor for their chosen one so I think it's safe to say he's not myconian or anything. What's up with that kid?

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, RKeno said:

But I think it's a bit shaky to rely on the assumption that infestation only transforms the dead, unless this was explained somewhere in the lore and I missed it (I'm not saying I'm very knowledgeable or anything

Before I get into anything else, we see this with the Kavor. They only turn once they die. We've yet to see anyone actively turn whilst alive - Alad gets infected, sure, but he's conscious, lucid (albeit manipulated) and even curable. Kenga, too, doesn't seem anywhere near as changed as most of what we see. We also see a character from the Corrupted Ancient Simaris imprint get bitten and not turn, and another only turn after their death. So whilst it's not stated, this seems to be the case.

 

10 minutes ago, RKeno said:

This makes a lot of sense too. But I think it's a bit shaky to rely on the assumption that infestation only transforms the dead, unless this was explained somewhere in the lore and I missed it (I'm not saying I'm very knowledgeable or anything). Regardless, your take on it has a much better explanation for Kenga's behavior. What I still don't get is Arlo himself, what the heck is that kid's deal. He's clearly "special" without taking his healing into consideration. How does someone that defenseless survive in the middle of the infestation like that? Sure, the fact that he's mute could just be a red herring (he could just be a regular kid with a voice disability), but he also heals people. Also, afaik Myconians don't have a successor for their chosen one so I think it's safe to say he's not myconian or anything. What's up with that kid?

Good questions. We do have some indication that Arlos is Solaris, not Myconian due to his child-rig, and that they are more resistant to being infested due to being mostly machine with a separate mind piloting it (as opposed to a MOA or Jordas, which has an AI acting as a body's mind, or of course, a good old squishy like Kenga), doubly since Little Duck comments as such in the Comics. Still, that doesn't really explain why they didn't just tear him up and use him for mass, or even take more time and effort to infect his head and let that pilot his body. Not like they're strapped for it contained on Eris.

That being said, it's not impossible. He's equipped for it, certainly, and if he did find some way to upgrade his rig with healing powers, he can recover from incoming damage and scavenge for food/nutrient canisters. We do know that he used to talk though - Nora mentions he 'lost his voice', which implies he at one point had one.

[pqNapkin]

On 2019-07-20 at 8:05 PM, nslay said:

Can Arlo heal the infested back to their original uninfected forms?

I'm not sure, I'd guess no? Because of what Silverback73 said here:

On 2019-07-20 at 8:00 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

[Snip]

The classic infested in Warframe follow the rules of a poor man’s John Carpenter’s “The Thing”...more like a Sentient Cancer (pathogen) but less able to climb the evolutionary chain to advanced thought through exact mimicry as the Thing’s cells copy their host...more in common with Zombies from World War Z...basic brain function.

[Snip]

I see the classic infested as more like "moving" tumors, or rather, the infestation makes use of other biomass (people, corpus proxies, etc.) and controls it. But to the infestation it is just more biomass, and whatever it was, it will "mold" it into a form that can be used for combat so I think the process is very destructive and irreversible.
Unless the victim was only slightly affected/mutated I guess, like Alad V (all he got was a bunch of glowy scars). Maybe he did get some internal organ damage or something but it didn't change his body drastically as he could still speak, work and perform scientific experiments (he improved the infestation) and pretty much retain enough of his higher brain functions to eventually work into curing himself from it.

But let's look at it from another perspective... let's say we WANTED to make a soldier look all disfigured like an Infested Charger (which is based on Grineer troops) using the technology we see in Warframe and some more speculation.
Just imagine how much plastic surgery and medical work would have to go into making that poor soul go from a bipedal "less-than-human" clone (or whatever the grineer are) to that quadrupedal disfigured mass that is the runner. Not only does that thing work, it feeds, runs, bites and does whatever it is that it does agressively enough to be considered a threat to enemy soldiers! Some infested "forms" fire spores, others spit things, other forms resort to biting and mauling, some of them grow armored carapaces, dang, you have a whole arsenal of weaponized mutations going on out there.

Think about it, we are in a sci-fi universe where people wearing power armor is commonplace, energy weapons are cheap and readily available, and you have this weird... zombie-like fauna made from literal corpses threatening people with that level of technology. The infested are not the shambling corpses we see in classic zombie media, with their "human" weaknesses (I mean, aside from the headshot shenanigans, they are still based on humans, and a well placed shot in their vital body parts should be enough stop them on their tracks). Heck, again, the infestation can and does consume synthetic materials! That's not your average zombie virus, that's some crazy powerful weapon, this thing can manipulate its victims down to the molecular level (or maybe worse, considering it was engineered by the Orokin, it could be like the alien nanotechnology we see in the Crysis series, except even crazier).

So yeah, I'm pretty sure whatever transformation the infested do the biomass they acquire, it is probably VERY violent and irreversible. That reasoning might even support the idea that started this post, that the infestation is starting to figure out transforming everything it touches into aggressive monstrosities isn't working that well after all... that maybe it's time to try something less... intrusive or obvious.

Then again, I do concede we have voidy space-magic going on all around all the time so what do I know, it might as well be reversible in the end, who knows... I mean, you don't have to believe me, we're just speculating anyways hahaha

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, RKeno said:

Think about it, we are in a sci-fi universe where people wearing power armor is commonplace, energy weapons are cheap and readily available, and you have this weird... zombie-like fauna made from literal corpses threatening people with that level of technology. The infested are not the shambling corpses we see in classic zombie media, with their "human" weaknesses (I mean, aside from the headshot shenanigans, they are still based on humans, and a well placed shot in their vital body parts should be enough stop them on their tracks). Heck, again, the infestation can and does consume synthetic materials! That's not your average zombie virus, that's some crazy powerful weapon, this thing can manipulate its victims down to the molecular level (or maybe worse, considering it was engineered by the Orokin, it could be like the alien nanotechnology we see in the Crysis series, except even crazier).

I usually describe it as an unholy fusion of Grey Goo, the Flood and the Zerg.

It's a self-replicating nanotech plague that devours anything like grey goo, a sentient zombie disease like the flood and takes 'patterns' from its victims to assimilate into mutations or infected, hence why we still have ancient healers despite all the Lorists they came from being long dead, or Corpus/Grineer infected on the opposing territory.

[Oreades]

Ultra plot twist: Everything is just on the up and up but we still bust Kenga for some outstanding gambling debts or some junk 

 

Srsly tho, Waiting for Arlo to go full Tetsuo. 

[0_The_F00l]

Can't we just ask helminth? 

Just kidnap a devotee, strap him to the chair and let helminth "examine" him. 

We already have one friendly (kinda) strain of infested, we could have more, maybe a new syndicate of friendly infested, maybe call them the symbiote instead of the infested. 

[nslay]

Could what happened to Arlo somehow be related to Alad V's cure? Maybe Alad V is still infested but with the same strain as Arlo and those devotees?

[(XBOX)Lmacncheese]

It's also funny how they can revive us if we're down the followers did it to me.

[Ayoxin]

Awesome theory. Thanks for sharing, Arlo rubbed me the wrong way from the start, there was just something insanely suspicious about him. I love how they threw Kenga as a red herring to distract people from the actual threat. Well played.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2019-07-20 at 12:34 PM, RKeno said:

I was looking around the forums for people discussing this whole Arlo thing in NW2, maybe Ancients and Orokin Lorists, but couldn't find anything connecting them. I did find theories on Arlo and his gift being some new form of infestation strain, though. Not to mention all the religious symbolism.

I mean, the reason I got so curious about it and started trying to find a connection between these things is that the first thing I noticed when I saw the glyph (the Emissary Emblem, WF wiki: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Emissary_Emblem) we get as a reward from this event, is that it has Arlo's hand drawn with a circular mark right in the middle of the palm. This is not how it looks like in his 3D/game model though, (he wears gloves there), but it instantly made me think of the Lora Device the Orokin Lorists (healers) had embedded in their palms, as the text says in the Synthesis/Codex entry on how Remballa (a Lorist) became an infested monster (it's in the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis Imprint). We were never told how these Lora Nodes or the Lora Device looked like, but they were visible enough to bother the Orokin with their appearance.

Sure, that peculiar circle marking in his hand could just be symbolism (the glyph does look like your average religious symbol). Not to mention the synthesis entry saying that the Lorists had 'metallic fascia' growing all over their bodies (maybe sort of like the "somatic scars" the Tenno have) and Arlo's appearance seems very normal for a Solaris kid. Even the exposed skin he has (arms and face) seems very normal too.

I know people have theorized a lot on ancient healers and all, some forum user even theorized about the strange whitish 'skull shape' on both sides of their necks, or their weird "backpacks", among other things.
Anyways I think it's just too fishy that this Arlo kid (his name could be an anagram for Lora too!) has healing powers, was found right in the middle of the infestation, doesn't talk... I don't know, makes me think if he's not some sort of new infested form based on Ancient Healers... I don't know... And of course, the Nightwave itself doesn't help when Nora talks about Arlo and Kenga in a way that makes it obvious that there's something suspicious going on. And what is it with those weird canisters Arlo's followers hold?

Think about it, maybe... who knows... the infestation revived Arlo's corpse to slowly and stealthily spread infestation...? Sort of healing people and infesting them with spores that incubate for a long time before turning them into infested, kinda like the mind control spores of that insidious fungus that controls ants (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis). This supposed new strain of infestation could just alter people's behavior initially before consuming them entirely. Kinda like the ants in that article, which die sometime after being infected (4 to 10 days), except it could take longer with people (maybe incubating over weeks, months, or more, maybe even years). Combine that with religious zealotry and Nora's lines on how ideas spread fast, it's not difficult to imagine that this new strain could have some form of psychological/religious effect in the minds of it's victims... I mean, we know the infestation is not just some dumb parasite or disease, what if this plan was its next attempt at evolving and conquering the origin system? 

Imagine if the infestation got smarter and figured out that instead of aggressively attacking everyone and using "combat forms" to acquire more people/biomass to join it, that it could just spread like a regular "human disease", slowly contaminating everyone, and combining that infection method with the spreading of an idea that attracts people. It could infest a great number of people without having to fight or even bother going after them, since they'd be coming willingly after the main contamination vector (Arlo) to receive his 'gift' (healing) and join the cult. Kenga could have been picked just as a means to spread the idea/word, which in turn helps spread the disease itself!

Or maybe it's just Kenga using Arlo's power for personal gain and I'm just overthinking the plot and this whole thing hahahah

What are your thoughts on this? Any ideas? Or maybe we should just wait for the conclusion of this NW and see how it pans out?

Yes.  Threads popped up on this almost immediately.

A healthy host/vector with “curative” powers through a hidden pathogen is the best way to infect targets.

The real question is whether or not the infestation forcefully takes control at some point or if true symbiosis occurs and the host still serves but has individuality and free will, albeit affected by the hive mind and whatever Euphoria and Super-human mania Arlo’s “faithful” seem to experience.

If the latter is true, you have the makings of a functional Infested faction/Empyrean crew of Superhumans.

Edited September 5, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

Nora called this Kenga's revenge. It certainty implies he knows what is planned, if not having planned it.   

[SilentMobius]

To me this all feels like a Dark Sector callback, Arlo/Kenga is Mezner, who was allowed to retain enough independence to spread the infection, then everyone is called home to make a Blob-force to steamroller through everyone else.

Edited September 6, 2019 by SilentMobius