Dual Keres no Signature passive on Khora?

[SerphV]

I just realized this...

Did DE missed it or intending to implement it later?

[Dark_Lugia]

There are still a few signature weapons that will receive this treatment (Scourge, Hystrix, etc).
So i guess they might get one... soon™

Zitat

Signature Weapon Changes:
Having a ‘signature’ weapon now actually benefits you! There are still a few signature weapons that will receive this treatment (Scourge, Hystrix, etc).

- update 24.6

[SerphV]

Ahhh Icic,

Thanks for pointing it out.

But I wonder what Dual Keres can get from using it with Khora though.

I kinda like the weapon alot~

[Xzorn]

I find the concept of signature weapon effects rather dumb personally.

It seems short sighted. Like these weapons may never get an upgrade variant or Prime passive because they're "signature" so a year down the line the weapon will get power creep'd out of existence and the whole point of the signature effect will be dead wasted coding time.

They just about always release new weapons along side a frame dated back years. Like Valkyr came with Tigris, Cestra and Lecta. It's just DE trying to fill a theme instead of a purpose with their designs which is going to turn up a lot of dead weight.

[DrakeWurrum]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I find the concept of signature weapon effects rather dumb personally.

It seems short sighted. Like these weapons may never get an upgrade variant or Prime passive because they're "signature" so a year down the line the weapon will get power creep'd out of existence and the whole point of the signature effect will be dead wasted coding time.

They just about always release new weapons along side a frame dated back years. Like Valkyr came with Tigris, Cestra and Lecta. It's just DE trying to fill a theme instead of a purpose with their designs which is going to turn up a lot of dead weight.

Eh. Maybe dumb for you. Some people like the idea. I personally don't care, but there's bound to be some people who love the concept for fashionframe's sake.

I mean, Banshee Prime had the signature weapon of Euphona Prime, so there don't seem to be any real rules for what they mean by "signature weapon"

We've also gotta remember that the devs just like to do what they think is fun to do. It's not about flawless min-maxing balance for them. If they think it's fun for a frame to have a "signature weapon" to match it's aesthetic, they'll do it.

Though I have to wonder what sort of power creep could possibly happen further down the line at this point.  Keep in mind that Dual Keres has the highest crit chance of all Dual Swords right now, and the second highest attack speed of Dual Swords (only behind Nami Skyla Prime). Apparently they even nerfed the Conclave version of them in a hotfix (I wasn't even aware they did anything with pvp balance). Might only be beaten by Zaws, realistically.

Edited July 22, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

We've also gotta remember that the devs just like to do what they think is fun to do. It's not about flawless min-maxing balance for them. If they think it's fun for a frame to have a "signature weapon" to match it's aesthetic, they'll do it.

 

I agree and doing what's fun is fine but a standardized upgrade path for weapons is important and if DE adhered to such a format better Rivens wouldn't be such a mess. Every weapon type outside Infested have an upgrade path. This is how DE should be updating older / newbie weapons into veteran / late  game weapons.

Currently it just doesn't work and the answer to alleviate at least some problems is right there. Prova & Prova Vandal, I mean really? Then you have better examples to upgrade paths working such as Grinlok & Prisma Grinlok or Supra & Supra Vandal. I don't want to turn it into a Riven discussion but ideally Disp would range no more than 0.7 - 1.2. If Disp is higher than 1.2 then the upgrade variant of a weapon needs to be improved or the weapon needs to be given and upgrade variant.

Sure some weapons just don't fit or are anomalies. Prisma Cleavers for example will still hand it do Dual Keres against Armor after all these years. No Dual Sword can beat them in bleed DPS without a Riven. I dislike Signature weapons because they don't seem to follow any standard. Are they Tenno weapons? Will they be Primed? If so will they have Prime passives or Frame passives? Both? It seems needless and might potentially further complicate things in the future.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Every weapon type outside Infested have an upgrade path.

Gotta say, infested weapons need one as well...

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Gotta say, infested weapons need one as well...

 

Yep, they sure do.

I feel the format is already there it just needs to be more concrete.

Grineer > Wraith
Corpus > Vandal
Infested > Something.
Tenno > Prime
Prisma > Alt Side Grade

Easy. As a bonus we would probably see more tactical alerts / Events to accommodate these upgrade variants.

Would be nice if they made Invasions not suck also.

[DrakeWurrum]

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I agree and doing what's fun is fine but a standardized upgrade path for weapons is important and if DE adhered to such a format better Rivens wouldn't be such a mess. Every weapon type outside Infested have an upgrade path. This is how DE should be updating older / newbie weapons into veteran / late  game weapons.

Currently it just doesn't work and the answer to alleviate at least some problems is right there. Prova & Prova Vandal, I mean really? Then you have better examples to upgrade paths working such as Grinlok & Prisma Grinlok or Supra & Supra Vandal. I don't want to turn it into a Riven discussion but ideally Disp would range no more than 0.7 - 1.2. If Disp is higher than 1.2 then the upgrade variant of a weapon needs to be improved or the weapon needs to be given and upgrade variant.

Sure some weapons just don't fit or are anomalies. Prisma Cleavers for example will still hand it do Dual Keres against Armor after all these years. No Dual Sword can beat them in bleed DPS without a Riven. I dislike Signature weapons because they don't seem to follow any standard. Are they Tenno weapons? Will they be Primed? If so will they have Prime passives or Frame passives? Both? It seems needless and might potentially further complicate things in the future.

I'm personally convinced Rivens are basically their "easy" solution to weapon balance. Rather than constantly playing with statistics and data charts and trying to achieve perfect balance, they just put out what amounts to randomized loot (something Warframe doesn't have, but Diablo and Borderlands and Path of Exile do - Riven mods help to fill that gaping hole). Then all they have to do is fudge with disposition based on a weapon's popularity.

That obviously doesn't work for all weapons (looking at you Stugg), but DE does seem fond of going with KISS solutions rather than perfect solutions.

As to the greater point - I'm not sure Warframe needs anything to be standardized, design-wise. They likely want to avoid the trap of feeling like they have to do something just because it's the standard. If there's one thing you can count on from DE devs, it's that they value creative freedom quite a bit.

And frankly, I think signature weapons not really being figured out yet is the least of the game's worries.

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Yep, they sure do.

I feel the format is already there it just needs to be more concrete.

Grineer > Wraith
Corpus > Vandal
Infested > Something.
Tenno > Prime
Prisma > Alt Side Grade

Easy. As a bonus we would probably see more tactical alerts / Events to accommodate these upgrade variants.

Would be nice if they made Invasions not suck also.

I was hoping Mutalist would be that path, but so far it really hasn't gone that way. Only two weapons of that variant atm.

The only other "theme" to Infested weapons right now is "-cyst" as a suffix, but that's not a variant.

Edited July 22, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Caine2112]

On 2019-07-22 at 6:14 AM, Xzorn said:

 

Yep, they sure do.

I feel the format is already there it just needs to be more concrete.

Grineer > Wraith
Corpus > Vandal
Infested > Something.
Tenno > Prime
Prisma > Alt Side Grade

Easy. As a bonus we would probably see more tactical alerts / Events to accommodate these upgrade variants.

Would be nice if they made Invasions not suck also.

Infested > Xeno (as in Xenophobe)

[yles9056]

On 2019-07-22 at 6:14 PM, Xzorn said:

Grineer > Wraith
Corpus > Vandal

I just want to point out that some Tenno weapons also get Wraith or Vandal version.

There are Latron Wraith, Strun Wraith, Lato Vandal, and Imperator Vandal.

Edited July 24, 2019 by yles9056

[rapt0rman]

On 2019-07-22 at 11:30 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

I was hoping Mutalist would be that path, but so far it really hasn't gone that way. Only two weapons of that variant atm.

Mutalist as it stands right now specifically refers to new, unique weapons made from something not infested, complete with seperate rivens. So it doesn't really fit with the standard prime/wraith/vandal upgrades, but yeah, needless to say, the infested are going to need one sooner or later.

Edited July 24, 2019 by rapt0rman